Can you grow with cold cathode computer lighting?

[ST8DunWSociety]

Hey! I wanted to toss you guys an idea about your PSUs. I have one of these for a DC bench tester i use at work all the time. Now theres a little something something with these you can do to help protect it if you do deside to overload it for try to short it out for shits and giggles. What you need to do 10 ohm 10 watt or more resister (can be ceramic or any other kind of resister as long as it's a biggen (10watts or more). Hook it up between one of your red 5v wires and a black 0v wire. The reason behind this. Most PSU should / need something drawling power on it before you even flip the switch. If you do this you wouldn't have to worry about it and like i was saying, if you do deside to do something silly most of the engery and then converted into heat by the resister.
At this point you can let the power supply let YOU know when it's had enough (it will go into termial protection mode... usually just make sure it works the first time like this, it will work every other time. I did have an experance with an older PSU that was a 150watt one, it didn't cut off, just kind of toasted on the spot!

 

[ScrubNinja]

St8! Thanks a bunch dude! I was discussing this same stuff in the fan thread and talking about turning a psu into a lab power supply.

That resistor part was confusing the crap out of me but you just explained it really well. So if I hotwired a psu with a paperclip, and used all the voltage combinations in the article, WITHOUT installing a resistor, it'd still work the same, only there'd be fire risk etc if it did get overloaded. Far out bro mad rep!! (and for the love of jebus, tell me if my above rundown is incorrect!)

 

[#1cheesebuds]

wow all of these cool grow cabs coolesting I ever seen.
Can I get these at any computer store?
If it were me I would be only getting/using the white ones for the best results.

 

[ScrubNinja]

Yeah cheese they are a reasonably common thing it seems. You might do better hunting around online if money is an issue. I personally would just wait a few weeks at least, see how it goes with us test subjects. The last thing I want is a bunch of people hating me for wasting their time and money. One or two I can handle

But if you're feeling experimental and have excess cash problem - by all means get busy

 

[ST8DunWSociety]

Hey Scrubs you pretty much have it dead on. If you want i'll take some pictures of mine and shoot them at you. Mine is set up with a LED and 5 terminals, i also have it labled Electron and conventional theory of electron flow (ya know neg to positive, or pos to neg). It's actally really easy to do and takes about 12 dollars plus the PSU if you wanted it finished and so on and so forth. Another thing i was wondering about, do you have all your lead wired Pos to pos and neg to neg? There is some basic electrical theory where this may help you (i've went on about this in the past on a old account, no one cared )
Ohms law, Series, Parallel, and series-parallel. You can make things work around the number you need it to let me know if you need help making things work. Just remember Volt=Amps*Resistence <== Ohms law

 

[apples]

Hey cheese if you're in the US check out newegg.com I buy all my computer stuff there. They are based in NJ and ship fast. 3day ground, only takes 2 to get to me.

Price is low too. I payed like 75 for 10 dual sets shipping included.

Scrub is wise though, its prob best to see how these do before getting sucked in. Although it looks promising from AlienBait's images. That guy wasnt even trying.

I plan to have my cab ready to go by the end of next week at the latest and I'll take one of my 3 ladies and finish her in there.

Even if this is a total failure atleast I'll have gotten a nice growbox and a few new friends out of the whole deal.

GL HF

 

[#1cheesebuds]

Yeah cheese they are a reasonably common thing it seems. You might do better hunting around online if money is an issue. I personally would just wait a few weeks at least, see how it goes with us test subjects. The last thing I want is a bunch of people hating me for wasting their time and money. One or two I can handle

But if you're feeling experimental and have excess cash problem - by all means get busy

really what I want to buy is some of the pll lights. the ones Ur big bush plant is under.

also I do wanna see how ur test goes first. so GL wit dat.

 

[ScrubNinja]

Cheers Cheese, it seems like pll hoods are available in all the major countries now so good luck. Parts to build your own PLLs are still crazy expensive and hard to find here in oz, at least for me. But the hoods are an easy option. Mini PLLs would blow CCFLs away, and fit in the same space more or less. My 24w pll is roughly about the same length as these CCFLs I think, but I haven't actually compared.

Thanks a bundle ST8. Man, I am right at that stage now where I should have learnt all the basics. I know enough to get by connecting some fans but damn, electricity is some deep stuff. Thanks for your kind offer!

I'm not sure if StealthD still needs help with his adapter but that same question has been bugging the crap out of me, if you have the time. When you have an adapter like this:



(plz ignore F'd up wiring) Does that mean you can run 1.5A on the 12v, simulaneously with 1.5A on the 5v? So a total of 3A? I know it seems like it, after the discussion we've had so far in this thread, but not a great idea to assume, and noone has indicated for sure.

Oh and we've talked about overloading the psu and about it failing if there is no resistor. Is a shorted wire to a 12v fan enough to overload a PSU to the point of danger?

Apples, you really sprung outta nowhere and jumped straight into this. I am down with anyone willing to take a chance on something a little out of the norm. This whole thread has totally rocked the discotek. In summation:



StealthD you owe us some pictures, mang. You holdin'?



My carbon filter is HUGE btw!

 

[apples]

I'm super excited to finish my box and put one of my girls in there for its last month or so.

I can't stop thinking about it. I think it's the colored lights...reminds me of christmas or somethin.

 

[StealthDragon]

Yeh I'm still kind of unsure about whether or not if it's safe to run my 2 12v exhaust fans off that 5v line. They will run off of it, I did a quick test and they fire up no problem, but I'm worried about decreasing the life of my inverter. I might just end up using another 12v dc adapter but that will be a second plug going to the wall, and I'd bet I would lose alot more power efficiency by using it.

Sorry man I've been slacking I know, just been busy with a few modifications to other boxes I have. I think all I really have left on the PC is building the second carbon filter for my other exhaust, I decided to run dual exhaust at lower speeds since the fans will be mounted externally and I don't want them to be too loud. I've been sort of putting off the carbon filter honestly. I'm tired of making carbon filters, this second one for this current PC project will be the *thinks* 8th or 9th one I've made in the past 6 months or so. I like to build stuff, don't get me wrong...but it gets to the point where I get burnt out on the design process.

and Scrub, glad to hear your insulation thing went smoothly btw. (I'm a lurker extraordinaire)

 

[ScrubNinja]

Thanks buddy, The things we do eh! Wish it were just legal. I like to avoid stress and I had a month's worth in a few hours. I got woken by the landlord and asked if it's cool for the guy to start in an hour! I'd had 5 hours sleep and the place was a mess.

I should probably commence work on the pod again. I know what you mean about burning out. Plus I have to sort something out for a temporary hermie isolation chamber. It looks like this fem seed experiment just may work It's all about the timing!

I hear your carbon pain. I would go mental if I had to make another DIY filter. Mine was a great investment for me I think. I got a large one so I can switch it up to my larger real fans no problem.

 

[ST8DunWSociety]

Well since there is some confusion let me run with some basic electrical theory on you guys. When you talk about Volts, amps and resistance there is a common law to follow, Ohms law! Volts = Amps X Resistance. Now that's nice and all the know but having an understand of what volts does and amps and resistance will help you out better in the long run then me just telling you what needs to be done.

So with that equation Voltage is king there is no difference between 12v at 2 amps or 6 volts at 4 amps they both equal 24 watts (Volts X amps). But! when in the fancy DC world you have to understand that amps is figured by the load, not the source, Where Volts is dictated by the supply (via a battery, PSU or what have you)

So your question about it having 3 amps, well your trying to calculate amps between two separate circuits, so lets go with your total wattage! Your one circuit as 12v at 1.5A = 18 circuit wattage, your 5v at 1.5A = 7.5 circuit wattage. Is the clouds lifting yet? Kind of think of it like this, have you ever looked at a 12V battery that said 5Ah (amp hours)? roughly that means you can run a 12v fan pulling one amp for 5 hours (this is also why if you put more loads on a battery it dies faster).

Another thing, that 12v at 1.5a is stating you can have a 1.5 amp drawl on the 12v side of the circuit, and you can have a 1.5a drawl on the 7.5v circuit, where your total wattage is 25.5 (.5 is bleed off in the ac - dc inverter) and you total wattage your PSU uses is 26 watts

Now lets ram another nail into it resistance, With a basic series circuit (Pos to neg to pos to neg) Your total resistance is equal to the sum of each load. So if you wire together two bulbs so it's like this:
+source===+@-===+@-===-ground
And each bulbs resistance is 4 ohms, your total circuit resistance is 8, lets say your running an 12v source power supply whats your amps? A=V/R so you have a 1.5 amp drawl or 18 circuit wattage.

On a parallel circuit things get a wee bit more interesting and for the sake of this example I'm going to use basic numbers so this can be more understand, there is a equation for figuring out total circuit resistance and it is stated below, if you have more then 2 loads you just keep adding R to the equation!! So you have your loads wired pos to pos and neg to neg:
+source..........-ground
|...................|
|...................|
|...................|
+ Load 4 Ohms -
|...................|
|...................|
|...................|
+ Load 4 Ohms -
How on these circuits your total resistance is lower than the lowest resistance. So if you have a 4 ohm load and a 2 ohm load it would be lower than 2 ohms. So with this circuit having two 4 ohm loads, the equations is R1xR2/R1+R2 so! 4 x 4 / 4+4 or 16/8 = 2ohms so lets say our circuits source voltage is 12V and your total circuit resistance is 2 ohms A=V/R, A=12/2 so this circuit has a 6amp drawl, 12V x 6A =72 circuit wattage. Now this is usually how i wire up my 12 computer fans, i want them going ballz out!

Finally we have one more and again there's an equation for this one, i'm not going to even go into it, but i will use basic numbers to make it easier to understand, this circuit is called series-parallel. Basicly if you have four loads that are all the same resistance, the total circuit resistance is equal to one of the loads resistance
+source .................. - ground
|.............................|
|.............................|
|.............................|
+ 4Ohm - === + 4Ohm - Set 1
|.............................|
|.............................|
|.............................|
+ 4Ohm - === + 4Ohm - Set 2
Now this is a watered down version of the equation: Pretty much because we know that the resistance in set 1 is R1+R2 = 8, and we know that in parallel R1xR2/R1+R2 so 8x8/8+8 or 64/16 = 4
So again if your voltage is 12v and you know your total circuit resistance is 4 A=12/4 So your amp drawl on your circuit is 3 amps and your total circuit wattage is 36 watts.

Hope this helps, if you need specific number crunchin, i need to look at the spec of you bulbs (like required voltage / resistance, or estimated amp drawl)

To your shorts, PSU are solid start driven components, If you were to suffer a short with a modern PSU at the very worst you might have a bit of the case melt as something fries and then it will altogether stop working, You really have to worry when you try to drawl way too much from them. That's how fires are started on solid state circuits. They overheat and if they don't turn to shit first, they will keep getting hotter until they (actually in some cases) explode or catch something on fire. Direct power to ground shorts create such a huge spike so quickly that usually the ICs (integrated circuits) or in some cases voltage regulators get angry and the internal wiring dies

 

[WTA]

What an excellent explanation. Thanks!

 

[StealthDragon]

*scratches head* I've read that 4 times now ST8. I think I understand 10% of it now, so I go about 36 more times to go lol. I'm sure it's a great explaination, but honestly think I might not have the mental capabilities to ever understand electronics properly.

So I have a 5v 2A line, this equates to 10v @ 1A. I want to run 2 12v fans that have ~.2A per (one doesn't say the Amps on it but it must be close to the other one) there fore an estimated total would be that I would need 12v @.4A to run them at "normal" speed.

if I wire them in series they would need 24v @.4A...R1..R2...yeh nm I just don't get it.

I finished my carbon filter though!

I really don't get how my mind can have such a great understanding of some things, but others make no sense to me at all. I heard once that Einstein couldn't tie his own shoes and I never believed that, but now I do.

huge thanks for the detailed explanation, but I have no expectations of ever understanding this stuff, and it's definitely not due to your explanation.

If you want to crunch #'s for me I need to run those 2 12v fans off the 5v line, would it be better to wire them in series or parallel? and would it be safe for the powersupply? *sigh* I need some weed so I can think straight, being between harvests sucks.

 

[oldbootz]

someones clued up with their electrics

 

[ScrubNinja]

I hope you get flooded with rep bro, IC won't let me give you any just yet. That was awesome. Lost track pretty early but this is going in the keeper files. I will read it over and over until it does make sense to me. I think I mentioned my bro is kind of in a related field so he tries to help me on the rare occasion we meet but he's not so good at explaining. Seriously, thanks. He actually works with inverters, but really really huge ones so he just laughed when I tried to nail him for info on CCFL inverters.

Also been considering getting a thermal breaker. There's a thread where a fellow aussie went through the learning process, and the store and part numbers etc are all noted and available to me locally, seems pretty easy.... False sense of security or valid safety device? (sorry bro, don't feel obliged to answer, I'm just thinking aloud more than anything, but go ahead if you're bored)

StealthD, let me tell ya first hand, it doesn't get any easier when ya stoned either

 

[ScrubNinja]

Safety audit

Safety audit

Check out my filter god damn!



Crazy idea #3872: Grow inside a carbon filter.


I would appreciate you guys' and gals' opinions on how I'm looking so far, safety wise. I'm quite happy with what I came up with. What do you think? Those racks are strong steel, coated with PVC. The inverters are zip-tied down. The wall it's next to is painted fibro stuff.

I haven't thought too deeply about the fan situation. It's no problem rearranging things so nothing is overloaded I think. The problem is the logistics of how to turn the lights off but still run the fans. My pal has a bizarre off-grid hydro setup and he uses a 12v timer, what do you say, smart people? Run all the inverters into that, and then into the PSU. Or would I need some crazy expensive high current timer?

I rearranged the lights again and now the circle inside is even smaller. I can *just* fit the pots in, it's tight. The sad bit is that I thought of something else and I have to rearrange them AGAIN. I also cut the intakes larger. Here is a little diagram that may help n00bz if this does prove to actually work.

It's gonna take me a while to digest ST8's post, and I'm not sure it's even covered in the things he covered. Canna tried but didn't quite give me a solid answer. So undoubtedly my biggest problem now is that I still have no real clue how many amps these lights are using exactly. And the fan controller is completely unknown/unlisted. I presented those figures earlier which I presume are from a killawatt device. That's as close as I can find to figures for the bitspowers, and I'm running one bulb per inverter, his test was 2 per inverter. So all this is adding to the confusion of working out the fan setup. Anyone feel like popping off what the amps are for one Bitspower bulb running on one inverter? You can see I'm trying to be safe and so I need to know this figure for certain. I don't know what else to say or how to ask, so I can only hope someone helps.

This was the dudes figures for 2 bulbs on one inverter.

After a few minutes of warm-up time, the Bitspower CCFLs settled to about 540 milliamps (mA) of draw at 12 volts. This doesn't mean the two tubes between them are emitting 6.48 watts (12 times 0.54; watts equals volts times amps) of light, though; it just means the rig is consuming that much power.

Want some pointless figures that won't allow me to get a number using any formulas? The specs will be good for that!

Specification Of Cold Cathode Light

Length : 300 mm
Voltage : 570 ± 40 V
Current : 5 mA
Power : 2.85 ± 0.30 W
Brightness : Over 18000 ± 3000 nt (cd/m2)
Lift Time : Over 15000 Hours

Specification Of Inverter

Input Voltage : DC 12 V
Output Current : 5 mA
Support Output : Dual

Sorry for being thick

Fan Controller (Vantec Nexus NXP-301)

* 3 Channel Aluminium Fan Controller, supporting up to 18Watts/Channel
* Voltage range from 0V to 12V
* Up to 1.5A Output Current

So do I just guess? Guess high or guess low? Draw numbers out of a hat? Oija board?

I NEED A BONG.

 

[grow1620]

Well man you could always get a kill-a-watt or one of those little voltmeter thingies..then you would know for sure...you could probably pick up a cheap voltmeter for like 10usd bucks...what's that like 15-20 aud?

I think if you're really concerned about safety from overheating or "frying" one of those inverters...you should put a metal plate or maybe a cinder block underneath them...if one of the inverters goes it will melt onto your wood floor...which could start a fire, but even if it didn't you'd definitely have a big stain/burn mark you'd have to explain to your landlord.

as for the 12v timer I've been holding on to this link for like a year incase I ever ran purely off of 12vdc..I don't know if they could handle the startup amps though...so yeh again I would recommend a kill-o-watt...you never know what the initial draw of startup might be seeing as your running a "few" inverters plus a powersupply. I think even if you got an electrical genius in here they wouldn't be able to tell you the exact startup amps you'll be pulling..especially since your specs are so inaccurate/varied and you're going ac->dc->ac

You're right be concerned about safety running that many inverters, and no offence to any electricians in the house...but if it was me I would test it manually with a meter rather than taking someone's word for it. might cost you a few bucks but peace of mind is priceless when it comes to this grow stuff.

edit: and yes, very clean looking setup ya built there.

edit edit! btw I thought that 12v timer mod that I linked was a huge find when I found it, from my research I found that12vdc timers are really hard to find and are pretty damn expensive ..which is why I still have that link from almost a year ago....even if it doesn't help you, maybe it will inspire someone.

 

[Aerohead]

Hey I ran into an place online selling cold cathode twist in bulbs. They are a little expensive but they look pretty easy to rig up.

here is a link

 

[ScrubNinja]

Thanks grow, I just can't understand it. They're an electric component for computers, where, as we can see amps etc are important to take note of. Why are the figures just not there? I found bitspowers site started working again, so I will email them and get to the bottom of it. It's a bit late to understand the details of the thermostat timer thing, but cool. My buddy paid around $100aud I believe and it seemed worth it. You could do some pretty intricate timings with it etc, not your average AC digital timer. Good call on the melting, you do make a good point. Cheers.

I have seen a couple of those type Aero. Someone was asking about them the other day. For any aussies reading, if you look in the lighting section of Funnings, I've found two types so far, one was 12v 5w and I think it comes in blue, white, yellow, and it's exactly like a teeny tiny cfl with very thin coil. And the other is a weird sort of flat S-shaped coil? Hard to explain but essentially it fits in where a cfl would, in small lamps etc. I've seen one of these running but didn't realise at the time it was CCFL.