Looking for a solution to my potassium deficient soil
- Thread starter FreedomFarmer
- Start date
M
Mountain
To test what exactly?
On page 2 was the answer you sought , posted by 2 very good organic growers that have had a lot of experience . Comfrey .
It is available from some outlets ready dried , i`ll see if i can find what i`m looking for but i bet your in another country so finding a retailer your end via a web search will probably save time .
It is available from some outlets ready dried , i`ll see if i can find what i`m looking for but i bet your in another country so finding a retailer your end via a web search will probably save time .
mosstrooper
Member
Seaweed, Extract and Meal, how are they made?
Seaweed, Extract and Meal, how are they made?
*cut*
sorry.
Seaweed, Extract and Meal, how are they made?
*cut*
sorry.
Last edited:
M
Mountain
Never even looked into those and did a little research. What were you testing for?
FreedomFarmer
Member
MJBadger,
Thanks for bringing this point from earlier in the thread back up, it was what rung the most true to me.......unfortunately I can't be growing it in this season here, but will be growing heaps of it when spring arrives............I didn't think of ordering some now for a quick fix before I can supply my own.
Is the dried comfrey used the same way as the fresh by making a FPE?
Nutrient levels within the plant. Helps one know if what they are doing with soil/nutes is working or what needs to be addressed in the future.
M
Mountain
So you think a colorimeter is better than getting something like a set of sap testers that are dedicated to only things like K, Na and NO3? Besides those what other nutrient levels were you looking at? Sap meters test at the ppm level...does a colorimeter do that? I'm guessing a colorimeter will not test sap pH or EC so you'd still need those. You ever use a chlorophyll meter? Man those are expensive.
FreedomFarmer
Member
How harmful to the microherd is the K-Mag? Does anyone have any experience with this?
I need to mix up 5 yards of soil for a greenhouse and am wanting to use K-Mag as my main K source since it is so cheap and I need a fair bit of it, and it gives me a nice sulfur and mg source to boot. Whatcha all think?
FreedomFarmer
The author of Teaming With Microbes runs a Yahoo email group on aerated compost teas. I've been receiving the posts from this email group for almost 3 years.
While Dr. Ingham does not participate any longer and has not for several months, her posts filled with misinformation will live on in the archives.
It would be fascinating and somewhat interesting to learn how the elemental forms of Magnesium, Sulphur and Potassium kill microbes. To use her 'science' then you'd have to conclude that epsom salts kill microbes as well. Then there's the horror associated with using kelp meal - pretty rich in all 3 as well if you can handle the price.
I wonder what she proposes to replace Magnesium with? The special compost they sell at her office? One of her over-priced compost tea brewers?
Personally I'm glad she's off to Upstate New York with her new job at The Rodale Institute - she's not in Corvallis, Oregon any longer. She was a big fish in a small pond here and now she'll be a little fish in a vast ocean at Rodale.
She might find that dealing with real soil biologists is quite a bit different venue than having moderator cover at a Yahoo group. I'm thinking that the heads of agriculture schools at UC Davis, OSU in Corvallis, The Wheat Institute in Kansas, Cornel University, Clemson, et al. will welcome her and her resume with the usual 'benign neglect' they afford anyone wanting to 'join the club' - i.e. ring knockers.
Look at it this way - by eliminating 3 of the macro nutrients it should make soil building much easier and fun! I wonder what she has to say about Nitrogen - that should be a hoot to read.
CC
M
Mountain
You don't have to worry about it unless you really over did it then maybe problems like anything else. Most of my organics experience comes from working with REv at Skunk mag. He would mainly use it low it the container and not a lot globally. Just like he said composted steer manure should be laid low in the container. Anything high in salts down low and not in a high concentration globally.
REv is into layers, zones and spikes for adding certain ingredients and makes a bit of sense but he also has a phobia of salts...lol!
They use K-Mag in Biological Farming (ala Gary Zimmer) and they do not apply anything that will negatively impact soil biology (microflora to worms and everything in between).
If for the long outdoor season then the Regular version (large and chunky) would be better than Granular for a slower release. REv used the Regular for indoor growing and would just start with it when first potting stuff to give it a chance to break down through the cycle.
One of these days he'll finish his books.
FreedomFighter
A few years back the parent company of the (in)famous 'Tennessee Brown Phosphate' (which is NOT a rock phosphate under any definition) made application to Oregon Department of Agriculture for approval to sell their product in this state - 2005 to be exact.
Huh? Why would they be applying in 2005 when they've been mining this source since the 1920's - why is that?
Well it's pretty interesting actually and has ALL to do with the location of this mine and their competitor phosphate sources in South Carolina and Florida. Regionalism.
In late 2003, DOE conducted a series of testing for a number of phosphate sources from the 5 major mines, i.e. Montana, Idaho, Tennessee, North Carolina and Florida. [cite]
It was this specific study that got Tennessee Brown de-listed in Oregon and other states that require that you either "put-up or shut-up" and the PROPRIETARY company that mines Tennessee Brown chose not to play and pulled out.
Good deal for them actually. FENCO is the only retailer of this product and they continue to make the specious claims about 'twice the phosphorus' which is pretty interesting as their legal declaration on their product that it contains "3% Available Phosphorus" - just like any other minded phosphorus source.
No magic. No mystery. No blog bull-sh*t. Facts are facts.
If you review both Tables 5 thru 7 in the link that I provided you can see the 'real life comparison' on the products from these specific mines.
I would note that when presented with this information at their hearing the parent company asked for, and received, an exception order under ODA Section 13 in order to provide ODA with further evidence to back up their claims about '2x' the Phosphorus levels in their product vs. other sources.
They didn't. Couldn't. Wouldn't. Haven't. They were de-listed in January 2006.
HTH
CC
A few years back the parent company of the (in)famous 'Tennessee Brown Phosphate' (which is NOT a rock phosphate under any definition) made application to Oregon Department of Agriculture for approval to sell their product in this state - 2005 to be exact.
Huh? Why would they be applying in 2005 when they've been mining this source since the 1920's - why is that?
Well it's pretty interesting actually and has ALL to do with the location of this mine and their competitor phosphate sources in South Carolina and Florida. Regionalism.
In late 2003, DOE conducted a series of testing for a number of phosphate sources from the 5 major mines, i.e. Montana, Idaho, Tennessee, North Carolina and Florida. [cite]
It was this specific study that got Tennessee Brown de-listed in Oregon and other states that require that you either "put-up or shut-up" and the PROPRIETARY company that mines Tennessee Brown chose not to play and pulled out.
Good deal for them actually. FENCO is the only retailer of this product and they continue to make the specious claims about 'twice the phosphorus' which is pretty interesting as their legal declaration on their product that it contains "3% Available Phosphorus" - just like any other minded phosphorus source.
No magic. No mystery. No blog bull-sh*t. Facts are facts.
If you review both Tables 5 thru 7 in the link that I provided you can see the 'real life comparison' on the products from these specific mines.
I would note that when presented with this information at their hearing the parent company asked for, and received, an exception order under ODA Section 13 in order to provide ODA with further evidence to back up their claims about '2x' the Phosphorus levels in their product vs. other sources.
They didn't. Couldn't. Wouldn't. Haven't. They were de-listed in January 2006.
HTH
CC
M
Mountain
LOL...took you about 24 hours to respond to the Tennessee Brown thing and was interested to see what you had to say
. I've mentioned TB a few times over the years and the first real response I got. For sure TB is not a rock phosphate.
I'm gonna have to talk to Farmer Brian...lol.
Since many cannabis growers are emotionally tied to this or that product (like Azomite for example) and cannot/will not actually read a label on a product it seemed pretty stupid to get involved in discussions about their claims.
The deal was/is this - in their claims about reduced 'heavy metal' content it's true to a point. It's when you compare their numbers with SRP out of the major mines that their claims fall flat. In the area of mined soil amendments it's not just knowing the specific product but it's equally important to look at the assay that was conducted BEFORE any mining actually began.
It's not like an idiot would spend $200 million dollars to start digging and then try and figure out what the (in)famous "ROI" will be after the investment. Isn't that basic Business 101?
And the claims out of this dig are beyond the pale which is why their product is only sold by FENCO and further, is only sold in states with loose labeling laws. Go figure.
It appears to me that trying to get folks to read any label, even those written for folks with an 8th grade education, is a fool's errand.
"Let me hit a blog or two and see what's up!!!"
Hence we have sh*t like "Wet Betty" or "Kushi Kush" and the other drivel at 'da growed store' eh? Oh yeah - let's not forget the whole 'Cal-Mag Lockout' deal too! We can fix that with Dolomite Lime teas!!!
LMAO
Then again no one ever went broke marketing to the lowest levels of intelligence/sobriety - hence American Idol
And then there's Charlie Sheen.............
CC
The deal was/is this - in their claims about reduced 'heavy metal' content it's true to a point. It's when you compare their numbers with SRP out of the major mines that their claims fall flat. In the area of mined soil amendments it's not just knowing the specific product but it's equally important to look at the assay that was conducted BEFORE any mining actually began.
It's not like an idiot would spend $200 million dollars to start digging and then try and figure out what the (in)famous "ROI" will be after the investment. Isn't that basic Business 101?
And the claims out of this dig are beyond the pale which is why their product is only sold by FENCO and further, is only sold in states with loose labeling laws. Go figure.
It appears to me that trying to get folks to read any label, even those written for folks with an 8th grade education, is a fool's errand.
"Let me hit a blog or two and see what's up!!!"
Hence we have sh*t like "Wet Betty" or "Kushi Kush" and the other drivel at 'da growed store' eh? Oh yeah - let's not forget the whole 'Cal-Mag Lockout' deal too! We can fix that with Dolomite Lime teas!!!
LMAO
Then again no one ever went broke marketing to the lowest levels of intelligence/sobriety - hence American Idol
And then there's Charlie Sheen.............
CC
So I have been using subcools soil mix and running into K def. since there doesn't seem to really be a valid K source in his mix. Feeling kind of silly I didn't scrutinize this closer earlier....
Anyways, currently I have a few ladies that are in this soil mix(just put into 10gal pots a few days ago) and starting to show K def. I have been feeding with kelp extract as a soil drench, and they get foliar fed with kelp a few times a week also. However, all this doesn't seem to be enough to slow down this deficiency, so I bring my case to the organic soil crew for a solution!
Any ideas?, i'm thinking of top dressing with Kelp meal and continuing soil and foliar feeding with kelp. Should I diversify my K source? Any tips or tricks on how to correct my K def. organically would be greatly appreciated!
Prevention and cure can be achieved in the shorter term by adding potassium-specific fertilizer, often called potash, which consists of K2CO3 [8]. Rock potash may be a good solution because it has a high potassium content but is released slowly to reduce overdose. Common forms of inorganic fertilizers include: Potassium Nitrate, Potassium Sulfate, and Monopotassium Phosphate. Other potassium-rich treatments include feeding with home-made comfrey liquid, adding seaweed meal, composted bracken, compost rich in decayed banana peels, or other organic potassium-rich fertilisers. Wood ash has high potassium content, but should be composted first as it is in a highly soluble form. Adequate moisture is necessary for effective potassium uptake; low soil water reduces K uptake by plant roots. Limiting acidic soils will also increase K retention in the soil by reducing leaching[9]. In the longer term the soil structure should be improved by adding plenty of well rotted compost or manure. Additionally, improving soil structure will help reduce leaching.
personally I use natural/charcoal aswell peace out Headband707
I like Subcool but not too fond of his "bat quano use" with bare hands in that SHIT is not the greatest idea....
FreedomFarmer
Member
CC + Mountain,
Thanks fellas for the info on the K-mag and microherd, I am not worried about it. I am assuming that Dr. Ingham is the source of this "net rumor", thanks for helping me shake that down.......always so much shady info out there. So how long does it take the regular(big n chunky) size to break down in active soil? I am assuming that it provides a nice slow release of it's minerals, right?
Thanks fellas for the info on the K-mag and microherd, I am not worried about it. I am assuming that Dr. Ingham is the source of this "net rumor", thanks for helping me shake that down.......always so much shady info out there. So how long does it take the regular(big n chunky) size to break down in active soil? I am assuming that it provides a nice slow release of it's minerals, right?
FreedomFarmer
Member
Good point on the bat shit, i have thought of that and most of my contact with the soil is through shovel, bucket, rake, pitcher.....but yeah, i of course throw my hands in there to make it just right..
And I am assuming that you are referring to the all natural hardwood charcoal they sell for BBQing, right? That is slow release mineral and K? Doesn't "untreated"(innoculating w/ compost or something nutrient rich) charcoal leach available nutrients out of the soil?
