2012 Legalization Effort Starts

[igrowone]

I do not think so. We haven't seen any final drafts yet, although some are in support without regard to details and facts. LMAO at these jokers who obviously do not live in-state, and do not care about Californians, yet expect us to care about them. We can scape goat CA until we see the 2012 details. The we get to divide the community again over the details, and wait for these 2012 props to fail. Then go back to the blame game and more divisions. Yay politics!

personally, i really hate to ask people to make choices in their lives that aren't directly my concern
it's not my nature, and twists my guts when i do it
i rationalize based upon the importance of this California issue for the country/world
i try to hold onto my self respect by being as straight as possible, don't pretend i'm anything but sick of federal MJ law
and as uncertain as this path may be, it's the hot coal in the federal butt i would like to stoke

 

[dagnabit]

What sort of voter initiative? Tax/regulate for commercial/centralized production?

one that allows for personal recreational,possession,use,cultivation,transportation,processing and licensed sales of cannabis and any derivatives thereof

And why do you feel we need this considering our current lax MMj laws?
Respect.

because it is the right thing to do?
because it will improve public perception of our wonderful plant.
because it will prove Mr. Anslinger wrong.
because it will allow more choices for patients and stoners alike.
because of the (proven with 215) snowball effect.
the reasons go on.

thats how you answer "open ended leading questions"

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

removed.

 

[dagnabit]

.

 

[thelaughingman]

people are scared of change.. the social eye.. if people were half as active as they were for the prohibition prop 19 would have passed..canna doesnt do that to people..
alot of people try to disguise the truth with for example one dr. just before voting day"canna should be for the people vote no on tax" we lost that war in 1865 my friend now uncle sam needs his cut..he gets it one way or another man, Roger Waters "Money, get away.
Get a good job with good pay and you're okay"
with prop 19 you would have rights, no one would be able to discriminate..

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

personally, i really hate to ask people to make choices in their lives that aren't directly my concern
it's not my nature, and twists my guts when i do it
i rationalize based upon the importance of this California issue for the country/world
i try to hold onto my self respect by being as straight as possible, don't pretend i'm anything but sick of federal MJ law
and as uncertain as this path may be, it's the hot coal in the federal butt i would like to stoke

Yes, there are many that would like to light this coal. But the fact is this has to be good for CA, or it will not pass. CA cares little about the affects our legislation has on the rest of the nation, we have problems of our own... many. The argument, that CA needs something, based on other state's lack of MMj, is not going to sway votes. More likely all this blaming will cause a self-defeating backlash from actual Californians ie Krunchbubble.

If a proposition that is good for CA comes up it will pass. Now defining what is good for CA is the trick, and Lee is working on it. You all had better believe he is a business man first, and a realist. He will make any sacrifice it takes to pass something that will let him make his millions off of commercial pot.

Will I vote for 2012 legislation, whatever form that takes? Take a pro/con/neutral stance? It depends on specifics because I live here and want what is best for my state. I voted for 19 even tho it was crap.

All this talk about other states is just BS, and has nothing to do with CA passing legislation. It's just angry outsiders, with an outside perspective, and usually income or prison time involved, trying to make this personal. But it is not, it is politics. If California is going to pass the taxation and regulation of commercial and recreational marijuana, it is going to be for California. Tax/regulate in CA will not be passed because other states have a hard time passing MMj, east coast prices are seasonally affected by our crops, and folks are going to prison elsewhere.

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

we lost that war in 1865 my friend now uncle sam needs his cut..he gets it one way or another man, Roger Waters "Money, get away.
Get a good job with good pay and you're okay"
with prop 19 you would have rights, no one would be able to discriminate..

I have rights. I smoke on my front porch, across the street from an elementary school with cops watching. It's my right to consume my medicine on my property. But agreed on more rights being good. We smoke at the bar too, but we know it's not really okay. Before 19 failed we joked about which bars would let us smoke on their patios.

Work places will still be able to give UA and disqualify for THC if they want. I think this is a major issue for CA and decrim in general, the whole "stoned employees" thing.

And honestly, they way things are working out right now.... the taxman is far from getting his cut. I don't agree with that, but it's the truth.

 

[igrowone]

Yes, there are many that would like to light this coal. But the fact is this has to be good for CA, or it will not pass. CA cares little about the affects our legislation has on the rest of the nation, we have problems of our own... many. The argument, that CA needs something, based on other state's lack of MMj, is not going to sway votes.

no argument with that, that is plainly true
but which people of California?
if the rumors(i realize it's all rumor at this point) be true of the next prop, it will be a very conservative/restrictive creature
the people with the money look like they're ready to bring in a whole different demographic
the Californian that doesn't like the current MMJ system, and wouldn't mind a restrictive alternative
something 'sold' as a replacement for 215?
pushing 215 aside seems very unlikely, but voters have been sold on sketchier deals before

 

[dagnabit]

no argument with that, that is plainly true
but which people of California?
if the rumors(i realize it's all rumor at this point) be true of the next prop, it will be a very conservative/restrictive creature
the people with the money look like they're ready to bring in a whole different demographic
the Californian that doesn't like the current MMJ system, and wouldn't mind a restrictive alternative
something 'sold' as a replacement for 215?
pushing 215 aside seems very unlikely, but voters have been sold on sketchier deals before

kinda like "the devil you know"
the growers/smokers really dont determine this. we are the minority in the minority. 19 got shot down the next one may pass and most likely will be even more restrictive.
therein lies the devil we dont know.

 

[JJScorpio]

The Gov't has regulated all plants. Everything from plants and fruits and berries used to make wines and liquors, to veggies, tobacco, tree's and the list goes on. What in Gods name makes anyone think that Cannabis isn't going to be the same way? It's foolish to think that it won't be.

 

[dagnabit]

ever tried to take oranges out of florida?
they are SERIOUS about the citrus canker eradication program!

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

The Gov't has regulated all plants. Everything from plants and fruits and berries used to make wines and liquors, to veggies, tobacco, tree's and the list goes on. What in Gods name makes anyone think that Cannabis isn't going to be the same way? It's foolish to think that it won't be.

Very good point. Mj will be tax/regulated eventually. No one thinks otherwise, although some hope otherwise (not me).

Currently, MMj is self regulated in CA. The "real"* patients, the informed patients, the concerned patients, many, are choosing to buy medicine that has been lab screened. That makes me happy on such a deep level. "Oh hey, I guess since we are calling this medicine, and giving it to immunocompromised people in particular, we should check for toxins ect..." It only took a decade of MMj in CA to get there. lol at stoners.

*not going to attempt to define this as it would be flaming, and is another issue all together.

 

[thelaughingman]

truethat

truethat

I have rights. I smoke on my front porch, across the street from an elementary school with cops watching.

Work places will still be able to give UA and disqualify for THC if they want. I think this is a major issue for CA and decrim in general, the whole "stoned employees" thing.

the federal law needs to be lifted on 19! mainly for the US and UK law and local law..
baby steps
same here but not in front of cops HAHAHA
prop 19
limits employers ability to address canna use to situations where job performance is actually impaired..
i dont expect the union to let up or city jobs either ..mall jobs yeah

 

[thelaughingman]

The Gov't has regulated all plants. Everything from plants and fruits and berries used to make wines and liquors, to veggies, tobacco, tree's and the list goes on. What in Gods name makes anyone think that Cannabis isn't going to be the same way? It's foolish to think that it won't be.

i concur

 

[dagnabit]

i wonder..
had 19 passed do you think obama would have been able to so effectively ignore the marijuana issue in todays interview?

 

[ddrew]

i wonder..
had 19 passed do you think obama would have been able to so effectively ignore the marijuana issue in todays interview?

That thing was rigged, as soon as I saw the leap question I was pissed, I don't give a fuck about legalizing meth, I want MJ discussed on it's own, and not lumped in with "drugs"
What bullshit, that question was set up to give him an out.
Disgusting. This whole slimy ass government.

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

I want MJ discussed on it's own, and not lumped in with "drugs"

I want Medical Mj discussed on it's own. Is that what you meant?

MJ can be lumped in with "drugs" much more easily than Medical MJ.
Many are convinced that marijuana, while medicinal, is also a drug that can be abused, like many pharmaceutical medicines. Changing that perception is not going to happen. We need to focus on the medicinal side of marijuana.

We can stick to unrealistic ideals ie "marijuana is a plant not a drug". But legislation is not swayed by small minded arguments. Marijuana (specifically the cannabinoids) gets us high.

 

[dagnabit]

That thing was rigged, as soon as I saw the leap question I was pissed, I don't give a fuck about legalizing meth, I want MJ discussed on it's own, and not lumped in with "drugs"
What bullshit, that question was set up to give him an out.
Disgusting. This whole slimy ass government.

i agree!!
"drugs" are something that can kill you...

marijuana aint drugs...

 

[igrowone]

That thing was rigged, as soon as I saw the leap question I was pissed, I don't give a fuck about legalizing meth, I want MJ discussed on it's own, and not lumped in with "drugs"
What bullshit, that question was set up to give him an out.
Disgusting. This whole slimy ass government.

illustrates the federal situation with MJ nicely
no change, nothing is moving with federal law
there may be some token legislation introduced to a subcommittee, but not going anywhere
if not pushed, federal law and practice are not changing for the foreseeable future

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

illustrates the federal situation with MJ nicely
no change, nothing is moving with federal law
there may be some token legislation introduced to a subcommittee, but not going anywhere
if not pushed, federal law and practice are not changing for the foreseeable future

Obama doesn't dare tackle this issue. He is thinking about re-election. It is going to take the right political environment for any president to face this issue. Who knows... if Barry O is re-elected he might stop caring about polls and go for it.

Let's push the fed to reschedule. Pushing California may or may not help the rest of the nation.

Obama on drugs (the interview from today that folks are referencing):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB7AK76TF-k&feature=player_embedded

post edit: having the last word will never make you right. don't feed the trolls. we've hit the point of reposting counter arguments as you will see below...