Tutorial Organics for Beginners

[B. Friendly]

this is what I use and it's great it cost roughly $125 per 50-2gallon pots

http://www.gaiagreen.com/products/default.asp
MY MIX: Amounts for 50 – 2gallon pots
3 parts peat 2.2cu.ft
3 parts perlite 100 Litre
3 parts coco 1 Brick
2 part potting soil 50Litre, 2 bags
1 part Gaia FERTILIZING SOIL CONDITIONER 4-4-2 30Litre Bag
1 part vermiculite 25Litre Bag
1 part mushroom compost 20Litre Bag
2Litres wormcasts, from Gaia 5-2Litre Bags
15 Parts x 4L(ice cream bucket to ration parts)= 60Litres x 5 mixes = 50 2gallon pots

To each 60 Litres I add:
225g Gaia 4-4-4 All Purpose 4g/litre = 225g’s @ 5 mixes = 1125g’s
(Add some extra Gaia All Purpose at flower, maybe as soil drench??)
160g Gaia Kelp Meal 3g/L = 160g’s @ 5 mixes = 800g’s
(Add some extra Gaia Kelp Meal at flower, maybe as soil drench??)
225g dolomite lime 4g/litre = 225g’s @ 5 mixes = 1125g’s
????56g GROW,Gaia Seabird guano 1g/litre= 56g’s @ 5 mixes = 280g’s
**Best to give Gaia Seabird Guano as a TEA due to ammonia content.
**If you do want to add Gaia Seabird Guano as a soil additive then let your pots sit for at least 10 days before planting babies.
225g FLOWER, Gaia High P guano 4g/L = 225g’s @ 5 mixes = 1125g’s
56g ?rock potash 1g/L (NOT Needed included in Gaia All Purpose) 280g’s
56g ?rock phosphate 1g/L (NOT Needed included in Gaia All Purpose) 280g’s
molasses at 1 teaspoon/gallon WEEKLY with water feeding.
and some water crystals (As needed, mainly for outdoor grows)
*Note: Do not over water! Do not let your soil completely dry out! Maintain moist but not soggy soil for happy healthy plants.

the bat guano amounts change a little with strain. for instance the Blueberry has less N guano in the mix - but that standard mix has worked for pretty much everything i have grown and i just refine it a little as i get strains dialled in.
feeding is often not necessary but i use Dynagro and some other nut’s every 10-14days’ish sometimes if i think they need it and molasses at 1 teaspoon/gallon weekly,
(from B.Friendly, best, cheapest mix I have ever seen!!) See his results for yourself!! https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=194145

Important:
Mix it really well, When you think it’s good, mix it some more!

 

[CT Guy]

Is this Bountea fungal activator an item they've put out more recently ? And i wasn't aware that fish hydroslate & emulsion were that different . You say to add only very little , they recommend 3oz's below to 25gals in Carl's link . Is it worth adding or trying to brew with a fungal activator in tea form ? You indicate this is just wrong ? tia

Bountea Fungal activator:http://www.bountea.com/product.php?proid=43&sub_catid=&page=1-lb%20Fungal%20Activator

And nice link Carl, to EcoSytem Studies , tx
http://www.ecostudies.org/compost_tea_recipes.html

First off, there's absolutely no ingredients on the Bountea page. If you can dig some up and we could figure out what was in it, then we might know if it's beneficial. If it's anything like what the hydro companies do, then it's probably just some fish product mixed with some humic and then marked up 1000x. They really should list the ingredients!

Hydrolysate and emulsion are different. You can google them for more info., but in regards to the microbes, the hydrolysate is better.

Mycorrhizal fungi (VAM) does not grow in a tea. It is dormant until it comes in direct contact with the plant roots, at which point it forms a symbiotic relationship. Adding it to the tea is an utter waste of money,unless you add it at the end of the brew cycle and apply it directly to the root zone.

Can't comment on the exact rates of fish in the recipe, as I haven't done much testing in this regard. Microbeman could give you a better idea on %'s to use per gallon of water in your tea recipe.

Hope that helps!

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Vonforne

A few months back you and I were posting about using K-MAG (or whatever name one wants to use) and for the first few months I was making a 'tea' and applying it that way.

On the plants that I currently have in flower (Week 5) I added about 1.5 cups of the organic version of K-MAG (sulphate of potash magnesia) to the soil mix and without boring you with a great deal of information I'll just say that this is something that I will be repeating on future soil mixes.

This mineral product is almost magical - and this is from someone who holds little, if any, advocacy for any soil amendment as mission critical. I'm down to about 6 on the list and this one is at the very top.

Inexpensive. Effective. Verifiable results.

CC

 

[Stankie]

4. Lastly, if you have good aeration, and your ingredients are soluble, then you don't need to put them into the bag with the compost. I get better results with more ingredients floating around in the greater container.

What about forgoing the bag all together and letting the compost/EWC join the party?

 

[Clackamas Coot]

What about forgoing the bag all together and letting the compost/EWC join the party?

If you're applying as a straight soil-soak then you're good to go.

If you're going to apply as a spray then you probably will benefit from straining out the particles so as to not plug the spray nozzle.

Check out 'concrete sprayers' which are reputed to be the best option for applying an AACT as a foliar application. Or it was about 1 year ago - things move pretty quickly in the AACT paradigm.

HTH

CC

 

[Scrappy4]

Vonforne

A few months back you and I were posting about using K-MAG (or whatever name one wants to use) and for the first few months I was making a 'tea' and applying it that way.

On the plants that I currently have in flower (Week 5) I added about 1.5 cups of the organic version of K-MAG (sulphate of potash magnesia) to the soil mix and without boring you with a great deal of information I'll just say that this is something that I will be repeating on future soil mixes.

This mineral product is almost magical - and this is from someone who holds little, if any, advocacy for any soil amendment as mission critical. I'm down to about 6 on the list and this one is at the very top.

Inexpensive. Effective. Verifiable results.

CC

Hey, your giving me a boner, where can a guy get his hands on some.? Scrappy

 

[grapeman]

Vonforne

A few months back you and I were posting about using K-MAG (or whatever name one wants to use) and for the first few months I was making a 'tea' and applying it that way.

On the plants that I currently have in flower (Week 5) I added about 1.5 cups of the organic version of K-MAG (sulphate of potash magnesia) to the soil mix and without boring you with a great deal of information I'll just say that this is something that I will be repeating on future soil mixes.

This mineral product is almost magical - and this is from someone who holds little, if any, advocacy for any soil amendment as mission critical. I'm down to about 6 on the list and this one is at the very top.

Inexpensive. Effective. Verifiable results.

CC

So CC & V, I've taken to just using "sulfate of potash" around weeks 4 - 5 - & 6 at a rate of 1/2 tsp to a full tsp/gallon of water mix and I too am happy with the results.

Why (maybe the ratio of the elements S & K is a bit different in sul-po-mag then it is in SofK) would you want the mag that late in the grow and why would it not be more useful (S of P is 100% soluble) to just use SofK ? I think it's cheaper too.

 

[Stankie]

Carl Carlson

Thank you for posting the link to the Cary Institute. They are an important contributor for the advancement of sustainable agriculture around the globe. Very good people with a vast amount of information and experience to share.

Definitely one to Bookmark!

CC

I noticed on the link posted by Carl Carlson that they recommend adding 'liquid humates' when making AACT.

I *thought* I remembered reading somewhere that adding humic/fulvic acids to an AACT was not beneficial to growing microbes. Do I just have a case of 'stoner memory' where I am making up stuff in my head?

I recently added a small (maybe 1/8th tsp) amount of humic acid to a gallon batch of AEM, and it seemed to take a lot longer to finish brewing.

 

[B. Friendly]

Stankie
humic acid(fulvic acid is same)http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TC7-42991JB-J&_user=10&_coverDate=04%2F01%2F2001&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1566379881&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=4656ae140f12e85e6b1f6f78208d65ac&searchtype=a

Biodegradation and insecticidal activity of the toxin from Bacillus thuringiensis subsp. kurstaki bound on complexes of montmorillonite–humic acids–Al hydroxypolymers
Abstract
The equilibrium adsorption and binding of the active toxin from Bacillus thuringiensis subsp. kurstaki on complexes of montmorillonite–humic acids–Al hydroxypolymers, as well as the biodegradation and the insecticidal activity of the bound toxin, were studied. Seventy percent of the total adsorption occurred within the first hour, and maximal adsorption occurred in <8 h. Adsorption of the toxin on a constant amount of the complexes increased as the amount of the toxin added increased, and equilibrium adsorption isotherms of the L-type were obtained. There was essentially no desorption of the toxin after extensive washing of the toxin–organomineral complexes with double distilled H2O and 1 M NaCl. The bound toxin was resistant to utilization by mixed microbial cultures from soil and to enzymatic degradation by Pronase E. Free and bound toxin were active against the larvae of Manduca sexta; the bound toxin retained the same activity after exposure to microbes or Pronase, whereas the toxicity of the free toxin decreased significantly. The results of these studies indicate that the release of transgenic plants and microorganisms expressing truncated genes that encode active insecticidal toxins from B. thuringiensis could result in the accumulation of these toxins in soil as a consequence of binding on surface-active soil particles. This persistence could pose a hazard to nontarget organisms, enhance the selection of toxin-resistant target species, and increase the control of target insect pests.

 

[grapeman]

Well I'm trying an experiment. 1/2 the table got LC#2 (ProMix HP as a base) without the directed extra perlite and 1/2 the table got the extra perlite as called for in the soil recipe.

I always mix my soil and let it ripen for about a month or so in the garage then add and mix the perlite just before use. Well I forgot to add the perlite until I was 1/2 way done planting.

Oh well, we'll see how much more the plants like the extra drainage and air.
Shit.

 

[mugenbao]

Well I'm trying an experiment. 1/2 the table got LC#2 (ProMix HP as a base) without the directed extra perlite and 1/2 the table got the extra perlite as called for in the soil recipe.

I always mix my soil and let it ripen for about a month or so in the garage then add and mix the perlite just before use. Well I forgot to add the perlite until I was 1/2 way done planting.

Oh well, we'll see how much more the plants like the extra drainage and air.
Shit.

I've noticed recently a lot of people making comments about wanting to reduce and eventually eliminate the use of perlite in their mixes, and have wondered what the effects would be. Even though it was not fully intentional in your case, I am quite curious about how it will turn out, and hope that you'll make some progress reports along the way

 

[guest2012y]

The worse case would be aerobic and bad draining soil. In my case I've switched up to pumice but that doesn't mean I'm against perlite. I like the diversity I get from using variable sizes of pumice and the recycled perlite together in the soil. On this next recycle I'm going to add some perlite that I found buried under some stuff in storage.
I think a few of us old perlite users are just tired of the mess (it gets all over the fucking place),tired of it floating to the top when watering (liquefaction),and tired of paying for something that isn't sourced locally.
That's my 2 cents on perlite...

 

[grapeman]

I've noticed recently a lot of people making comments about wanting to reduce and eventually eliminate the use of perlite in their mixes, and have wondered what the effects would be. Even though it was not fully intentional in your case, I am quite curious about how it will turn out, and hope that you'll make some progress reports along the way

Maybe - You're right that I didn't want to grow without the extra perlite, I just fucking forgot to add it..... thus my new experiment.

 

[D9_THC]

How long do I have to bubble the dried blood tea, after I put the dried blood powder into the water? 3 days, 7days? I am using it at 1.5tsp / gal, because the plant is going yellow fast, and have to feed it asap, hope that won't burn it, I have been bubbling for 2 full days. Thanks in advance.

 

[smoketrichs]

How long do I have to bubble the dried blood tea, after I put the dried blood powder into the water? 3 days, 7days? I am using it at 1.5tsp / gal, because the plant is going yellow fast, and have to feed it asap, hope that won't burn it, I have been bubbling for 2 full days. Thanks in advance.

2 full days should be good, or until you see a foam appear on top (this signals healthy microbial activity). Warmer temps from an aquarium heater can help to quicken the process (low to mid 70s should be good) YMMV

 

[quadracer]

Foam is not an indicator of a good or bad tea. This has been discussed before...

At any rate if you add some drops of soap into a tea, the foam will go away.

 

[D9_THC]

so how long do I have to bubble the dried blood tea?

 

[grapeman]

I had a 2 hour meeting this week with soil consultant regarding calcium in fruit (or flowers).

This gentleman has all the back round needed and is recommending a product out of Spain called "Ferticell"
http://www.agroplasmausa.com/index.shtml
that has several products, one in particular a calcium product called "Calcium 880", made by a pharmaceutical company in Spain. They get their calcium product down to 1 micron in size and bundle it with a "fresh water algae" as a carrier. They say this fresh water algae is the key.

I am wondering if CC has heard of this product?? How about you Von? It's a European product of interest that I will be testing out this next grow. Both the "Universal" product and the "Calcium 880" sample that they left for me will be put to the test.

Anyone heard of this product or used it?

 

[Yoric]

Widow issue resolved (Vonforne correct).

Widow issue resolved (Vonforne correct).

I have something like that going on, and I've been struggling to keep it in check. I've been treating it as a fungus though, which I could be wrong about. But it spread to all four rooms, and the only one I've been able to beat it in had much lower lighting (400 MH vs. 1000 HPS) and they look great now. But the other three rooms are just struggling on the edge, a few leaves are showing the symptoms, and a bit of droop is still going on.

*snip*

It could turn out I'm completely crazed, and there's no fungal issues. But it sure seems the most likely.

I moved the plants another _foot_ away from the light, and the problem disappeared, so it seems it was heat, just as Vonforne said. That may be why complete darkness fixed your plants-- try upping the CFM of your ventilation or moving the plants away from the light. And let me know how it works!

 

[FinestKind]

Hey, your giving me a boner, where can a guy get his hands on some.? Scrappy

Scrappy-

General Organics sells one, it's like $50 a gallon (I think that's what they're talking about)... Hydro guy like everything else. Maybe they have a different source?

FK