Brick Coco - damaging grow?

[InvisibleEmpire]

Canna Coco is to expensive for me as I can only order it online and shipping is insane, but in my experience it has been the best in producing the most healthiest plants (when combined with FFOF)

Anyway, to save cash i got some brick coco (sunleaves) and was told that i had to 'rinse' the coco of excess salts...the sunleaves description said excess salts have been rinsed but people say they havent'...

here's what i did...i put the brick into a rubbermaid and added water while breaking it up. took a long time but i only used enough water to break it down into usable form instead of a compressed brick.

i started out 10 seeds in a mix of that and FFOF and it seems as if i'm encountering some issues and don't know if it's the seeds, genetics or the coco (salts blocking nute absorption).... the plants are roughly 2 weeks old and the lowest leaves look like they have cal/mag def already, and some of the leaves on some of them are 'wrinkled' and deformed in a sense, with some others drooping. a guy here said sunleaves coco almost ruined his grow bc of the salts...so my questions...

1.) what is considered a thorough 'rinse'? if i have the broken up coco in a rubbermaid, what is the best way to rinse it aside from just pouring water in it, agitating it, dumping...repeating?

2.) at the moment my best bet to avoid any further issues (until the coco can be rinsed and is not a threat) is to (next watering) rinse with 2-3 gallons (theyre in 6 inch pots now) then finally begin feeding lightly...is this correct? is there any other way to make sure there aren't any excess salts that will damage em?

 

[Mitch Connor]

I would PM you, but we all know how unsafe the PM system is on this site LOL

Short answer to your questions:

1) People generally shoot for 2-4x the volume of water compared to the size of your container. If your container holds 1 gallon of coco, run 2-4 gallons of water through (varies depending on quality of coco)

2) Kinda. I've read everywhere that it's never a good idea to feed coco plain water at any point during its life after plants are in it. It messes up the cation exchange balance within the coco. I'll explain more further down...

Alright. My first coco run (and grow for that matter) I had the same issue, except with GH CocoTek (green bricks). Over the first month that I didn't know about coco's tendencies and pre-treatment methods, I had a lot of lockouts and problems like you're describing. Crispy leaves, spotted leaves, twisted leaves. Everything.

Instead of mixing the coco with water in a rubbermaid, try using pillow cases. You need to let that saltwater go somewhere instead of right back into the coco you're trying to rid it from.

At the moment your runoff is most likely tinted yellow, right? Keep running water through until it's clear. After it turns clear, run more through for safe measure.

At this point, I used the rubbermaid bin. Put the coco inside and filled the bin with FULL STRENGTH solution (2.0 EC) of formula @ 5.8 pH and let it sit for 24 hours. This gives the coco time to soak up all of this goodness and adjust the pH to the golden zone.

Coco tends to with-hold certain nutrients within itself at first, filling some sort of cation balance (unsure of exact term, read in Urban Gardener). This is why initial treatment of a calmag solution/full strength solution is recommended; to balance out this 'initial web' to allow even transfer of certain elements over time.

After this, I ran 1/2 strength nutrient solution through pillow cases again. Any excess salts from the full strength run were (I think) washed away during this period, and the coco was now balanced at 1/2 strength (approx .6 EC for me) and runoff was approx 5.8-6.0 pH.

During my 2nd batch of seeds, I used the method I just described and didn't have too many issues. What I thought to be salt toxicity ended up being a cal/mg deficiency, which was corrected by treating the coco with 5ml/gal of Cal-Mag.

At this point where you are at, I would suggest running through a light feed solution of whatever you use. A type of strength that would reflect the stage at which your plants could currently handle. Run 3x as much water as container space.

ALSO!!! I recently found out that using any sort of product such as GH Florakleen, H&G Dripclean, Clearex, will save all the hassle of flushing gallons and gallons of water through bricked coco. These products have some sort of free molecule that binds to excess salts in the coco and rinses them out.

Glad to share my knowledge and I hope you get a good start this time around. Once you find YOUR method of treating YOUR coco, it'll be easy as pie.. MMMM

BTW, I only use Canna Coco now, as I don't have to do ANY sort of flushing out of the bag. Just feed 1/2 strength solution w/ 5ml calmag and my clones never skip a beat. Seedlings might only be able to take 1/4 strength. When I talk about full/half/quarter strength I'm talking in numbers around the range of 2.0 EC/1.0 EC/0.5 EC. 1000 ppm/500 ppm/250 ppm @ .5 conversion factor on the tds meter.

 

[gaiusmarius]

the easiest way imo to wash your medium, be it coco or hydroballs, is to fill it into pots and rins those pots through with water if you dont have a draining table take them to the sink or bathtub or take a bucket and put to planks on it which can support the pot of coco then just add water from the top till the run off is how you want it to be.


hey Mitch whats up with the pm system? seems i'm out of the loop here

 

[dunkydunk]

Sunleaves coco is garbage, I don't know how they continue to sell it. Botanicare coco bricks are of excellent quality and shouldn't kill you on shipping like bagged coco does.

In an effort to save the plants you have, flush the coco in the pots with 1/4 strength nutes until your runoff ppm's are close to the nute strength. Once there, give the plants some full strength, or close to full strength nutes, as straight water and coco will simply starve your plants, further stressing them after getting salt burned.

Mitch Connor above has given you sound advice, but should only be needed to fix poor quality coco.

 

[Bud Spleefman]

I rinse ALL coco until the run off water's PPM is less than 500 ppm. I use the bag it comes in when I buy bagged coco, and it usually only needs to be rinsed a little bit... if I buy the bricks (I DON'T BUY BRICKS ANYMORE) I have a big rubbermaid with holes in the bottom. I've seen an oily residue wash off really crappy bricks, the big ones, from the garden store... who knows what that is?!!!!!!!!! Apparently a lot of coco gets washed with water from the ocean because that's what is handy in Malasia or Indoneasia or whereever it comes from.... full of SALT!

I think coco normally has some PPM from breaking down into Potasium.... which is why I only wash until 500 ppm or less... you could wash it some more, I guess.

 

[Marlo]

I use Sunleaves Coco bricks all the time.
It is definitely a pain in the ass to rinse it, but other than that its fine. I use an over sized spaghetti strainer and just sit it in the sink. Not much fun, but it works.

I do agree, there are better options...but sunleaves is great when used properly.

I would PM you, but we all know how unsafe the PM system is on this site LOL

Really? How unsafe is it?





MARLO

 

[Mitch Connor]

Sort of an inside joke from last night around 2am. Some guy was spam posting (I think it was Nicoli) because he got banned by a moderator. He was saying some crazy stuff, that the moderators were giving out personal info via PM's, narcing out Nicoli forcing him to shut down his operation. It was pretty good entertainment for about an hour, guy posted 50 times in a 10+ page thread before it was canned. False allegations by some 17 year old on a Sunday schoolnight.

The process I described is pretty tedious, but it works for salt-laden coco. Thank goodness I've never tried Sunleaves brand, looks like it's nasty :X

Dunky, I was thinking of trying out the Botanicare bales next time I get some coco. Local hydro shop carries 5kg bales (expands to 70-80L) for $28. Canna comes in at the same price for only 50L. I'd like to be able to skip the rinsing altogether like I'm doing with Canna at the moment, are you saying Botanicare is good straight off the brick?

Good advise all around, keep this thread alive! I wish I would have known half the stuff in this thread before I started coco. Hopefully others don't have to run through the same problems.

 

[InvisibleEmpire]

Nice...so it looks like the best 2 options are a pillow case or a rubbermaid with holes on the bottom for drainage...

I guess based on what yall are saying is to rinse the medium the plants are in now and then begin a light feeding schedule...for this grow unless i rinse the coco i have more thoroughly i think i'll have to stick to FFOF the rest of the way to ensure salts/nute lockout isn't a factor

PS... you rinse Canna Coco? I've used it a good bit and never rinsed it with good results..? this sunleaves brand is another issue tho...

 

[dunkydunk]

Dunky, I was thinking of trying out the Botanicare bales next time I get some coco. Local hydro shop carries 5kg bales (expands to 70-80L) for $28. Canna comes in at the same price for only 50L. I'd like to be able to skip the rinsing altogether like I'm doing with Canna at the moment, are you saying Botanicare is good straight off the brick?

I've used several brands of coco, the Botanicare Cocogro bricks are what's easiest to get my hands on these days. The 5 kg bricks fluff up to maybe 15 gallons, roughly, judging by my 20 gallon tote. I hydrate with straight h2o, and then the only rinse it gets is when I pot up and give nutes to run off. I've never had a problem, not with the coco anyways.

 

[Mitch Connor]

PS... you rinse Canna Coco? I've used it a good bit and never rinsed it with good results..? this sunleaves brand is another issue tho...

I only use Canna Coco now, don't have to do ANY sort of flushing out of the bag. Just feed 1/2 strength solution w/ 5ml calmag and my clones never skip a beat. Seedlings can take 1/4 strength and a dose of calmag too.

 

[stonedar]

you can save alot of time and effort rinsing coco if you use a product designed to remove salts from grow media such as FloraKleen, Final Flush, Clearex, etc.
I personally expand a bale then put the whole wet bale in a big ass planter. I think it's a 26" planter. then run a Florakleen solution through it. usually 5 or 6 gallons is enough.
there is no need to flush the coco til the run off is clear.
it really is faster and easier with a flushing agent.

 

[Mitch Connor]

True that stonedar those products make it a lot easier. Can't go wrong for a $10 bottle of florakleen

 

[bu11dog]

Some brands of bricked coco do need washing; generally the cheaper bricks you can get from garden centres etc.

I've very rarely had a problem with proper bricks which are designed for our use, like from BioNova.

Peace

 

[Carl Carlson]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=3926437#post3926437

Sunleaves piece coir blows. Is it a Hydrofarm product? I think the manufacturing site suffers from poor quality control because there seem to be good and bad batches. I bought a 'bad' block in October. In hindsight it smelled like chemically treated mulch and I never should have used it. Yes, it was thoroughly rinsed after being expanded and this was not even close to my first go round with coco. Never again with the Sunleaves.

 

[Ember1]

Has anyone done any tests with a Hydrometer/refractometer to see just how much salt is in each brand of coco?
Next run when I buy some coco, I will be doing some tests with different brands. May take a few grows.

 

[buddin_904]

theres nothing wrong with sunleaves bricks at all.....you people who say otherwise are crazy...i NEVER FLUSH THEM THROUGH AND NEVER HAVE PROBLEMS WITH THEM!!!

i cant believe all these people on here complaining about brick coco and that it needs to be flushed...because IT DOESNT!!! it just needs a proper "charge", meaning, hydrating it with a decent level of nutes + cal + mg.....thats IT! the first week of waterings needs good floods and thats about it....end of story....

btw...i speak of using the bricks in a DTW setup.....in a recirulating set up, yes i would "flush" them through prior to setting them up a recirc rez.....

 

[kannubis]

I just use GH red bricks or the 5kg size expanded with hot tap water. No flushing except for giving the plants enough water/nutes for 10-20% runoff for the first couple weeks.

 

[InvisibleEmpire]

well the newer growth on my plants seems to be pretty good, i think im still going to rinse the plants a bit and then begin feeding slowly, remaining coco will go through a flush before being used...

i can't afford canna coco. its like $50 a bag w/shipping.

you can see the ones with the fucked up leaves:

 

[buddin_904]

those look fine....if anything u should feed a little more.....and those fucked up leaves could be the strain/ starting from seed/ pH fluxs....soooo its not the brick coco....

 

[scurred]

Wait, your mixing your coco with Fox Farm potting soil? Huh? Is that recommended?

Edit:
This seems like a weird decision, but I could be completely wrong. I am just branching off to hydro and coco from soil. But from what I understand... coco and soil have different requirements in terms of nutrients, watering schedule, and pH. Thinking logically, this could cause problems. I know FFOF soil uses oyster shells to pH it to 6.5~, but most hydro mediums (coco) will prefer a pH of 5.5-5.8.

If I am wrong please feel free to correct me, I just saw nobody replying about this and felt a need to.