Tutorial Organics for Beginners

[guest2012y]

I'm making some Lc #1 and I have blood, bone and kelp, but I wanted some tips\suggestions on how to incorporate some new things into it. I'm mainly just poor at math so the amounts to add get confusing with more ingredients, but I really want to spruce it up a tid bit. The amount of soil i'm making;

5 cu ft. Canada Sphagnum Peat
3 cu. ft. perlite
2 cu. ft. ewc\compost
Total=10 cu.ft., so roughly 70 gal.

LC #1
5 cups blood
10 cups bone
5 cups kelp.


I want to incorporate neem seed, alfalfa, and cottonseed meals. soft rock phosphate, glacial rock dust, azomite, and maybe get some sul po mag...no guanos or 'feeding' teas, just top-dressing EWC, and watering with ACT, or seaweed\fish hydrosylate....if needed in veg. Also I was wondering if I should just drop the cottonseed meal since I heard it can come from farms that use pesticides? It's just really cheap..

I was thinking of cutting back on the blood (since it's gross) with seed meals..I can get flax seeds which i can blend up to a meal plus the above mentioned ones. Ditto on the soft rock phosphate instead of bones.

I guess in a nutshell what amounts of each of these elements should I add to each Cu. Ft. of my 10 cu. ft. of Lc #1

Thanks

I'd use fish meal instead of blood..and fish bone meal instead of mammal bone.....you could also do a fish bone meal/rock phos blend. Check the common usage rates of each amendment and apply that to what you are doing..there are conversion calculators on the web. Not too much alfalfa if you are using other nitrogen sources,but a little is good...somewhere CC mentions the start out proportions of the seed meals..not sure where. I'd ditch the cottonseed meal if if wasn't organic.

 

[rupertb]

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[Chronic Future]

A gardening book I'm reading said not to use sul-po-mag in soil with dolomite lime maybe cuz of too much mag I know pot is a mag hog any thoughts?

 

[Chronic Future]

Ive consistently had horrible leaf issues using RECIPE #1 mid-late flower. I've read many posts by trusted posters of this section promoting various amendments so I ended up mixing per gal LC MIX

(bold = modification of RECIPE #1)

1 TBS blood
2 TBS bone
1 TBS kelp
1 TBS jersey greensand
1 TBS azomite
1 TBS rock phosphate
1 tsp sul-po-mag

I let this mix "cook" for 6-8 months turning at least once a week and allowing it to stay moist. I Followed the Lacto B guide here also and wet it with that once at recommended dilluted rate. Anything I put into this mix seems to burn / become crispy within 12-18 hours of transplant. Moneys tight and no local stores carry EWC this time of year.

So far I've lost a BB Mom put into 50% LC mix 50% mix listed above, and these 2 seedlings which are in 2 GAL LC mix 1 GAL modified recipe #1 appear to be in trouble as well. Any ideas on what I should do?

that mix is too hot for those babies I only use lc's #1 mix with full grow plants , take them out of that mix knock off as much of the old soil as you can and put them in 2 parts peat moss 1 part perlite.

 

[rupertb]

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[lizard_king]

Organics for Beginners

B1, thank you for this thread. The info here has been been most useful.

I am so glad there are still people out there that have the knowledge and are willing to share it.

 

[grapeman]

I have switched from liquid Acadian Seaweed to a dry for our farming operations. I never tried the liquid Acadian on house plants due to converting rates per acre to a rate per plant or plants. But now with the dry product, I can use the standard 1 tsp/gal or so.

It's imported from Canada, but sold by Tulare Ag in the Central Valley. So now I have a big fat bag at home to try. Maybe CC or CTGuy have used this before?? Probably the same as any Acadian seaweed product.

Would like to know.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

I have switched from liquid Acadian Seaweed to a dry for our farming operations. I never tried the liquid Acadian on house plants due to converting rates per acre to a rate per plant or plants. But now with the dry product, I can use the standard 1 tsp/gal or so.

It's imported from Canada, but sold by Tulare Ag in the Central Valley. So now I have a big fat bag at home to try. Maybe CC or CTGuy have used this before?? Probably the same as any Acadian seaweed product.

Would like to know.

grapeman

The Excite Seaweed is a brand of Acadian Seaplants, Ltd. The label should read Excite Seaweed Soluble Seaweed Extract 1-1-17 [cite] which is the same exact product as the Acadian Marine Plant Extract Powder 1-1-17 [cite]

Acadian Seaplants, Ltd. is the registrant and Excite is one of the labels. They have another label for a liquid product that starts with an 'F' but I can't recall the name. Another good product.

The brochure that I picked-up a couple of years had an suggested application rate of 1.5 tsp. per gallon which was for a foliar application. That is the amount that I use for irrigating - I don't increase it.

Very good product and widely used by the organic farmers in this part of the world as well as the Acadian Seaplant's Organic Kelp Meal.

HTH

CC

 

[Suby]

Acadian Seaweed is the only available in my area and if I am not mistake made in my neck of the woods (Qc, Canada).
I like the liquid for teas but the dry product is my favorite for soil mixes, I used to have to wet the mix with a strong solution to get a dose I liked.
I've used up to 2TBS/gallon with no ill effect, I foliar feed and use it CT on top of it all.
Has anyone here ever overdone the kelp?

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Acadian Seaweed is the only available in my area and if I am not mistake made in my neck of the woods (Qc, Canada).
I like the liquid for teas but the dry product is my favorite for soil mixes, I used to have to wet the mix with a strong solution to get a dose I liked.
I've used up to 2TBS/gallon with no ill effect, I foliar feed and use it CT on top of it all.
Has anyone here ever overdone the kelp?

Suby

Acadian Seaplants, Ltd. (ASL) have their production plant in Dartmouth, Nova Scotia. They were established in 1960 or so. [cite]

The specific variety/strain(s) of kelp used by ASL include the following: Ascophyllum nodosum (Rockweed, Kelp), Chondrus crispus (Irish Moss), Furcellaria lumbricalis, Fucus vesiculosus (Bladderwrack), Laminaria digitata (Kelp), and other seaweed species [cite]

Fair enough. ASL uses a cold alkaline extraction process which is claimed to have higher microbial activity vs. their main competitor, i.e. Maxicrop which uses a heated alkaline extraction process, i.e. same chemicals but it's the cold vs. heat that makes the difference here.

Maxicrop also uses the Ascophyllum nodosum strain as well as the other noted by ASL's web site. While both hunt for the Ascophyllum nodosum strain it's also true that in the kelp beds where harvesting is conducted there are other kelp varieties that enter into the manufacturing process.

Fair enough - redux.

Here's where the split comes with these 2 products - ASL sells their 'soluble seaweed extract' as a straight-up product while Maxicrop takes a different path.

When Maxicrop soluble seaweed powder leaves their production plant in Norway it's fairly pure. When it hits North America it is then mixed with water and then it's adulterated with sulphate of potash to enhance the 'K' numbers.

Sulphate of potash is the chemist's name. It's sold to farmers as K-Mag and to retail customers as Sul-Po-Mag with the generic name of langbeinite.

Sulphate of potash is sourced from ancient sea deposits and in its organic form, i.e. sulphate of potash magnesia, it's fine. In the form that is sold for transitional and conventional farming operations, i.e. sulphate of potash, it carries any number of problems not the least of which are the high levels of chlorine which is used to break down the organic mined form into powdered and micronized forms. The chlorine inherent in this process definitely has an effect on the soil's rhizosphere.

Most of the academic studies on kelp products has been Maxicrop - for good, bad and indifferent. These studies have almost always used the liquid product bottled in North America with sulphate of potash (non-organic form) having been added.

ASL's line of products don't carry this problem with their products. As a matter of fact it's this specific line of products that are used in testing on both animals as well as human studies. This is the specific product used in HABA (Health & Beauty Aids) that you would expect to find at organic health food stores. It's also the form used as an adjunct for livestock & poultry producers.

While it's not my intent to argue with those who claim that 'excessive kelp' products cause this or that problem, what I would argue is that testing with both versions from Maxicrop as well as ASL would be helpful and maybe even necessary to determine whether or not kelp and kelp extracts actually cause problems.

From my own personal/anecdotal experience - I dismiss the argument that there are problems with these amendments. Having said that I do apply ASL at 50% of the recommend rate so that may be a factor.

HTH

CC

 

[Suby]

Thanks CC,

I use plain Acadie Seaweed and have never tried Maxicrop to be honest, I like that ASL uses more than one soource, I always find have a variety of ingredients contributes something more to the whole.
Some have reported stretching from overuse of of kelp but it's tough to say seing as a whole bunch of factors can cause plants to stretch.
I am glad you posted that because it's a good reminder to growers how much grey area there can be sometimes when it comes to product labelled organic.
This is why when I read from a certain ''Professor'' that most organic growers are moving to ''soiless'' with bottled organics I feel a little twinge.
I think part of organic growing is researching every key ingredient we use and evaluating how truly safe and organic it is (not that this one is not safe).
As always thank you for the insight.

§ub's

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Suby

While I do have the soluble seaweed extract from ASL on hand, I generally use the ASL kelp meal that's available for $62.00 for 50#

I add that to the potting soil mix I make up and I also use the kelp meal for making a tea (1/2 cup of meal to 5 gallons of water and let it bubble for 24 hours) as a base for nutrient teas - alfalfa meal, linseed meal (aka flax), fish bone meal and fish meal.

The plants seem to thrive rather well with the addition of kelp and related products.

Plus the kelp meal tea smells like the ocean - old memories from another time in my life living near the ocean in Southern California.

CC

 

[Sourbear]

I have some questions for Guano

For plants that are small in 2 gal pots
that have been vegged for 2 and a half weeks
(just got switched to 12/12)
How much guano should I use for the small plants and whats the best way to apply the guano
also how frequently should I add the guano?

 

[vonforne]

I have some questions for Guano

For plants that are small in 2 gal pots
that have been vegged for 2 and a half weeks
(just got switched to 12/12)
How much guano should I use for the small plants and whats the best way to apply the guano
also how frequently should I add the guano?

You are talking about P guano.....right?

Ok, about 1 TBS pr container as a top dressing will work or you could make a nutrient tea with P guano, kelp and EWC. Maybe a little Fulvic or Humic acid and some Sul-Po-Mag ( 1 TSP per gallon of water for the Sul-Po-Mag.

This is better

1 to 2 TBS P guano per gallon
1 TBS Fulvic acid
1 TSP Sul-Po-Mag
and a handful EWC

V

 

[Sourbear]

You are talking about P guano.....right?

Ok, about 1 TBS pr container as a top dressing will work or you could make a nutrient tea with P guano, kelp and EWC. Maybe a little Fulvic or Humic acid and some Sul-Po-Mag ( 1 TSP per gallon of water for the Sul-Po-Mag.

This is better

1 to 2 TBS P guano per gallon
1 TBS Fulvic acid
1 TSP Sul-Po-Mag
and a handful EWC

V

P guano?
as in high in phos?
Good for Flower right?
Thats what I planned on getting.


I have read some things about tea making, and that doesn't seem like something I would be great at doing lol. Unless it's easy and cheap I don't want to invest into making tea's like that.

I'm just looking for a way to add guano to my plants that are just hopping into Flower and it seems like adding a top dressing is the easiest way to go.

thanks!

 

[er·u·dite]

Making your own teas is about as cheap and easy as it gets. You take an exact amount of nutrients and put them in an exact amount of water and let it bubble for 24-72 hours before using.... watering the plants is the time consuming/skill based part

 

[Suby]

P guano?
as in high in phos?
Good for Flower right?
Thats what I planned on getting.


I have read some things about tea making, and that doesn't seem like something I would be great at doing lol. Unless it's easy and cheap I don't want to invest into making tea's like that.

I'm just looking for a way to add guano to my plants that are just hopping into Flower and it seems like adding a top dressing is the easiest way to go.

thanks!

If you can brew a cup of coffee you can make activated compost tea.

 

[Yoric]

Used 2 Tbsp granulated Dolomite

Used 2 Tbsp granulated Dolomite

You can put your dolomite in a cheap blender and powder it, just do it outside or your better half will tear you a new one .
Pellets leave bigger pockets of lime in the soil, it can work but personally I would powder it.

S

The package of lime I purchased (online) said "powdered" in the product description, so I didn't question it when it came out looking like pearock. Yes, I feel dumb. I added 2 Tbsp to mix #1, and my mix has been sitting for one day so far.

Then I read further and got to Suby's post above. At this point, should I powder some lime and add more, or will that create too much lime for the root systems?

Thanks for helping this n00b.

 

[vonforne]

The package of lime I purchased (online) said "powdered" in the product description, so I didn't question it when it came out looking like pearock. Yes, I feel dumb. I added 2 Tbsp to mix #1, and my mix has been sitting for one day so far.

Then I read further and got to Suby's post above. At this point, should I powder some lime and add more, or will that create too much lime for the root systems?

Thanks for helping this n00b.

You will be ok. The pellets work just fine. Are you sure it is pellets or granular?

V

 

[vonforne]

I don't want to mess up more than I have. I have been using Recipe #1 and have been trying to tweak the recipe to fix my problems.

My first crop looked like it was Mg deficient (no pictures, sorry).

My second crop looks great so far (in veg still), but my first's crops problem didn't start right away either. Instead of a cup of dolomite/cu ft, I used a heaping cup.

For dolomite I used Espoma's "Garden Lime" which lists the ingredient as dolomite with:
10% Mg
21% Ca
35% MgCO3
52% CaCO3
The lime was in pellets, but I ground it into a powder with a blender. (I can't remember if I did that for the first crop.)

OK, so I find and buy powdered dolomite and mixed 3 cu. ft. of soil yesterday for crop #3. But, after I was done, I saw that the contents of this lime is:
3% Mg
30% Ca
12% MgCO3
75% CaCO3

I'm afraid to lock out Mg, but that's alot of soil to waste. I have room for 3 more cu. ft. of soil in my container.

What should I do????????????

Thanks,
-L

A lot of people report that. What you need to do is add more diversity to your mix. Azomite, EWC, Sül-Po-Mag.

You will be fine with the lime you chose.

If you are worried you culd use some Sul-Po-Mag (Sulfate of potash) Q 1 Tsp per gallon of water every other watering.

but try and build on your soil mix.

You are recycling the soil......right?

V