Feds reply to Cali Prop 19

[Ben Tokin]

So does anyone think we will get a better bill on the table if this one passes, or is this one just going to be amended? (in your opinion)

Only time and accurate information will allow cannabis its' rightful place in human culture again. The criminal elements who demonized and plotted the prohibition of this extremely valuable plant will eventually be exposed. They will be known for their greed and their disregard for humanity.

How many human lives have been disrupted and destroyed for the sake of a few greedy people? Tens of millions?

How many lives could have been helped or saved if not for the same greedy sheisters? Hundreds of millions?

Why should we as a people be subjected to the shame, guilt and humiliation for using the flowers of a simple plant to help us deal with the trials and tribulations that life throws at us? I cannot fathom how many people have had to deal with the guilt society has imposed on us for using cannabis.

We all need to cast off the the false psychological stigma of guilt related to cannabis use and free our minds and souls. We all need to realize that the real and the psychological prisons we have lived in are due to the greedy control freaks of business and government.

Stand up and free yourself! Vote YES for prop 19!

 

[Mr Celsius]

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[mean mr.mustard]

Only time and accurate information will allow cannabis its' rightful place in human culture again. The criminal elements who demonized and plotted the prohibition of this extremely valuable plant will eventually be exposed. They will be known for their greed and their disregard for humanity.

How many human lives have been disrupted and destroyed for the sake of a few greedy people? Tens of millions?

How many lives could have been helped or saved if not for the same greedy sheisters? Hundreds of millions?

Why should we as a people be subjected to the shame, guilt and humiliation for using the flowers of a simple plant to help us deal with the trials and tribulations that life throws at us? I cannot fathom how many people have had to deal with the guilt society has imposed on us for using cannabis.

We all need to cast off the the false psychological stigma of guilt related to cannabis use and free our minds and souls. We all need to realize that the real and the psychological prisons we have lived in are due to the greedy control freaks of business and government.

Stand up and free yourself! Vote YES for prop 19!

I didn't see an answer to my question in there.

I agree we must stop the incarceration.

As time has gone on, many have fallen in this "war".

I am simply trying to determine the best way to do that.

I don't need to hear "We just vote yes on 19."

My curiosity involves my last post, any thoughts?

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

The possible domino effect that you propose will eventually hurt cartels. In the mean time, California would become a safe heaven in the united states for cartels to operate out of.

How will 19 possibly create a "safe haven" for cartels? And honestly, who gives a shit? Its not like we got roadside shootouts and fences lined with severed heads. Its a few mexicans growing up in the forest and I have little doubt that the feds will allow this to increase simply because the voters of California decided to regulate and tax cannabis.

 

[Frozenguy]

I imagine if you were to break down the anti's into 5 categories, it would go something like this.

1.A prohibitionist (someone against any legalization)
2.A grower/dealer that thinks they will lose $$
3.Someone that doesn't think 19 goes far enough
4.An uninformed voter
5.Just an idiot who doesn't understand what a huge step this will be.

#2 represents folks that are part of our culture but would rather you go to jail then have it legalized to keep their profit margins intact.

#3 represents folks that are just being silly.

#4 represents someone that either has not taken the time to read and fully COMPREHEND the prop. Or they are misinformed or believe some of the fear mongering lies.

#5 Prop19 is being watched world wide. And millions of people around the US are hoping this passes. This is a huge first step..the biggest one in 100 years. It is the most liberal cannabis law in over 10 decades! It legalizes marijuana. you want more? Push for more later but don't fight against this one...cause then your against the whole cannabis movement. you can be a punk ass or an activist. The choice is yours...punk ass.

So there you have it

Again, do it for the entire world.. BS. Do you really see the feds legalizing cannabis in the next decade? In the next two decades? If the feds dont, the world wont. The feds give financial aid to a lot of the globe, and that financial aid comes with restrictions, like do not grow and/or sell/import cannabis/hash/other drugs. It is what it is.

So in relation to that amount of time, holding out for a good prop isn't irrational. Its thought through, patient, thorough. A lot of us dont want to vote for something just because the world is watching, especially when it effects OUR daily lives, not yours (whoever doesn't live here). Sure its better than what we have had (for purely recreational users), but that isn't saying much.

I mean, if this was our only chance, I would vote for it. But I know for a fact it isn't, and in two years there will be a better one on the table.

No reason to rush super hard into this and make a bad decision during the excitement of it all. And it doesn't mean anything that world is watching. A: read above, B: this is Californian's lively hood, so let us be, thanks. Once we "pave the road" then you can go on and talk about how you want your legislature set up.

 

[zen_trikester]

So does anyone think we will get a better bill on the table if this one passes, or is this one just going to be amended? (in your opinion)

I think this would be amended until federal does a schedule reduction. There is really a lot of good in this prop and a lot of freedom for the individual municipalities to tweak. There is also something about a state policy that can take over but as has been recently pointed out, part of the design of this prop is to not make it a fed -vs- Cali thing as much as a fed -vs- the people of Cali... So based on all of that I personally see it being tweaked differently across the state and modified minimally on the state level until the feds somehow give a blessing to do so.


Mr Celcius... I didn't know that about Montana and hemp. that is awesome, but 80 years dude, and we got 1 maybe... The hemp portion of this prop is HUGE! That alone will make other states want to do this. I guess I always assumed that hemp was hard enough to distinguish from MJ that they were sorta joined at the hip on the legal end. Either way, please don't make it sound like legalizing hemp is super easy because it isn't. It should be, but it isn't as is evident by the last 80 years.

Jed

 

[vta]

IS ERIC HOLDER SERIOUS ABOUT ENFORCING THE MARIJUANA LAWS?
Author: Kevin Zeese
Note: Kevin Zeese is president of Common Sense for Drug Policy

When the Majority Says Marijuana Should Not Be a Crime the Law Loses Its Legitimacy.

It is hard to imagine that Eric Holder's letter threatening to "vigorously enforce" federal law if California votes for legalization of marijuana is serious. It seems timed to manipulate voters in California, but in this year when political elites are hated it is likely to backfire and lead Californians to vote to end the failed marijuana war.

During one of the greatest failed experiments in American history, alcohol prohibition, a turning point was when New York told the federal government it would no longer enforce laws against alcohol. That left it to the federal government to enforce the law. Already "the feds" as they were derogatorily known were hated in rural areas where alcohol was often produced and the feds came in and disrupted their commerce. Then, the biggest urban area refused to enforce the law. The result, alcohol prohibition ended a few years later.

Attorney General Eric Holder last week promised "We will vigorously enforce the [Controlled Substances Act] against those individuals and organizations that possess, manufacture or distribute marijuana for recreational use, even if such activities are permitted under state law." Does he mean that the federal government will start enforcing laws against possession of marijuana? Or, be looking in people's homes to see if they are growing or using marijuana? That they will be searching people's backyards for their marijuana victory garden?

It is hard to believe that in a nation where half the murders go unsolved that the Department of Justice would make marijuana a priority after the people voted for legalization. It is hard to believe that an attorney general who decided not to enforce laws against torturers and lawyers who enabled torture would instead prosecute people for marijuana offenses. This is the same attorney general who is doing nothing while the greatest democracy crime since Watergate is going on - hundreds of millions in anonymous donations to non-profit front group who are trying to influence campaigns in violation of election and tax laws.

The police and the courts depend on the cooperation of communities to keep order. If a majority of Californians vote for legalization of adult use and cultivation of marijuana what kind of legitimacy do the laws against marijuana have? Already, large numbers distrust law enforcement, the feds will have no legitimacy if they are enforcing a law the majority opposes.

I realize that Holder has the responsibility of enforcing federal law. But, continuing on autopilot with aggressive marijuana law enforcement is a disservice, indeed an injustice. Passage of Prop. 19 is an opportunity to begin a national discussion of how to better control marijuana. Prohibition has been a failure, the marijuana war has been expensive and damaging; there are better ways.

Proposition 19 is an opportunity for the lead law enforcement officer to help the country change direction to a more just and fair society. As long ago as 1972 a federal commission appointed by President Nixon, the National Commission on Marijuana and Drug Abuse, recommended decriminalization of marijuana. And, this was restated in 1982 by a commission of the National Academy of Science in their report "An Analysis of Marijuana Policy" which urged consideration of legalization. The experts have said throughout the time of the marijuana war that it was the wrong approach, now the voters are showing they agree. This is an opportunity for leadership from the attorney general, leadership to a non-criminal approach to marijuana.

The U.S. criminal justice system is already seen by many as a system of injustice. Why? Because the United States with 5% of the world's population has 25% of the world's prisoners. One in 31 Americans is either behind bars, on probation or on parole, for African Americans it is one in 11 adults. This mass "criminal" population in "the land of the free" shows something is terribly wrong. What drives a system that results in 7 million Americans behind bars, on probation or parole? No doubt, one of the driving forces is the war on drugs, and marijuana is the driving force of the drug war with a marijuana arrest every 38 seconds, 840,000 annually.

Hopefully, Attorney General Holder will re-think his plan to escalate federal enforcement if a majority votes for ending criminal laws against marijuana. He should instead lead the nation to laws that are consistent with the essence of justice, i.e. being righteous and fair. Is it righteous or fair to enforce laws that the majority says should no longer exist?

Attorney General Holder - America needs real justice leadership. We need a leader who will help the country face up to its mass incarceration problem and its misuse of law enforcement to incarcerate people who grow a plant or smoke an herb. Mr. Attorney General you can do better than just saying - we're going to ignore the people and keep arresting people for something they think should no longer be illegal.

 

[Mr Celsius]

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[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

I'm not going to debate this. Neither side can win.

Its a few mexicans growing up in the forest... you must be from So Cal. Come to my world sometime and see if you change your mind.

i couldn't give a fuck if norcal was all mexicans. It is THEIR land to begin with. I hope they turn every national forest into mj grows

 

[SCF]

Again, do it for the entire world.. BS. Do you really see the feds legalizing cannabis in the next decade? In the next two decades? If the feds dont, the world wont. The feds give financial aid to a lot of the globe, and that financial aid comes with restrictions, like do not grow and/or sell/import cannabis/hash/other drugs. It is what it is.

So in relation to that amount of time, holding out for a good prop isn't irrational. Its thought through, patient, thorough. A lot of us dont want to vote for something just because the world is watching, especially when it effects OUR daily lives, not yours (whoever doesn't live here). Sure its better than what we have had (for purely recreational users), but that isn't saying much.

I mean, if this was our only chance, I would vote for it. But I know for a fact it isn't, and in two years there will be a better one on the table.

No reason to rush super hard into this and make a bad decision during the excitement of it all. And it doesn't mean anything that world is watching. A: read above, B: this is Californian's lively hood, so let us be, thanks. Once we "pave the road" then you can go on and talk about how you want your legislature set up.

we sure did pave the road for acceptance of medical marijuana, despite the lack of strict illnesses to get a 215. And there are still states falling to this day... Its not about basking in glory, its about the education that is being formed because of more acceptance. And more and more people are trying it for medical purposes, who never would, especially in cancer patients. I sure have heard many moving stories, and thus is why Older voters will vote yes on medical marijuana. Because it works.

Just an opinion, but its fact we set presidency on Medical Marijuana In United States. But of course was influenced by Canada!

 

[Ben Tokin]

I didn't see an answer to my question in there.

I agree we must stop the incarceration.

As time has gone on, many have fallen in this "war".

I am simply trying to determine the best way to do that.

I don't need to hear "We just vote yes on 19."

My curiosity involves my last post, any thoughts?

You cannot undo the damage and carnage that prohibition has unmercilessly caused. The only comparable events in human history are the Spanish Inquisition and the massacres in Germany, Russia and Laos.

The MSM and governments perpetuate the propaganda concerning cannabis.

The only way to realize a normal environment concerning cannabis will be the constant and determined efforts of intelligent people. These efforts must be directed at education and realization that the actions of government and business have created a human tragedy.

The people involved in this scam must be recognized for who they really are and for the human suffering they have created.

We must expose the lies and greedy intentions of these criminals. Oh yeah, you heard that right. Those that created and perpetuate prohibition are the real criminals, not the user of cannabis. Let's get that straight right now!

 

[zen_trikester]

I mean, if this was our only chance, I would vote for it. But I know for a fact it isn't, and in two years there will be a better one on the table.

Absolutely not fact, it is conjecture. You realize nobody will ever take you seriously with this kind of stupid lie right?
Jed

 

[Herborizer]

Again, do it for the entire world.. BS. Do you really see the feds legalizing cannabis in the next decade?

Yes, if prop 19 passes.

If the feds dont, the world wont.

World doesn't like the two faced United States already. If prop 19 passes, this is going to give the world a lot of leg to stand on.

So in relation to that amount of time, holding out for a good prop isn't irrational.

I believe it's completely irrational to wait for another prop. If you are talking about this "better, future prop in 2012", I believe you are talking about the Jack Hearer prop. Do you know that one has been trying to make it on the ballot for about 30 years? Why would it make it on the ballot in 2012?

A lot of us dont want to vote for something just because the world is watching, especially when it effects OUR daily lives, not yours (whoever doesn't live here).

Spoken like someone who is in the Marijuana business. Am I correct?

Thanks for your contribution to this debate.

 

[Herborizer]

You cannot undo the damage and carnage that prohibition has mercilessly caused. The only comparable events in human history are the Spanish Inquisition and the massacres in Germany, Russia and Laos.

The MSM and governments perpetuate the propaganda concerning cannabis.

The only way to realize a normal environment concerning cannabis will be the constant and determined efforts of intelligent people. These efforts must be directed at education and realization that the actions of government and business have created a human tragedy.

The people involved in this scam must be recognized for who they really are and for the human suffering they have created.

We must expose the lies and greedy intentions of these criminals. Oh yeah, you heard that right. Those that created and perpetuate prohibition are the real criminals, not the user of cannabis. Let's get that straight right now!

Well said!

 

[SCF]

The unfortunate reality is, Mexico can't seem to regulate the cartels, so they will continue to be a local problem. They exist and operate in our cities and counties and having more of them is disconcerting.

and this is why i have to repeat myself. I thought we just went over this. Just yesterday there was 131 TONS of marijuana seized in Mexico. Is this not proof that they are not coming over here to grow? And if they are, believe me, its down in San Diego and LA. Not north of... Arcadia is full of White homeless people. Step into San Fernando Valley and you will know what a lot of Mexicans are.

Very little Mexican Cartel come here. The news just makes that crap up because it can. " We didn't find anyone here, but we found there camp, and there were cooked Beans. Mexican Cartels must be growing here." Here is proof looking at these pictures, how much marijuana 131 tons is.. and look at the specific packaging. I have a feeling some of this aint swag.... But regardless at least 70 percent of California weed comes from California.

The Mexicans grow in mexico because its easy to do.... Looks like these guys pissed the wrong person off..... And Mexico is for sure making a point to show this off. To prove to US, that it does not cross the boarders to grow marijuana. They are just transporting it, and doing a great job at it. until now. Very interesting this happen right before voting on prop 19.

Heres the updated story....

Marijuana bust weighs in at 134 tons

TIJUANA, Mexico: The marijuana seized in Mexico’s biggest bust ever weighed in at 134 tons Tuesday, nearly 30 tons more than initially reported, authorities said.

Mexican security forces made the massive seizure on Monday after a shootout with traffickers, 11 of whom were arrested, officials said.
“It totaled 134 tons. Yesterday it was estimated to be 105 tons, but the official weighing has now been concluded,” Tijuana municipal police chief Gustavo Herrera told AFP.

A source with the Mexican attorney general’s office also confirmed that the seized marijuana weighed 134 tons.


Some 15,300 packets of marijuana were counted, up from 10,000, a day after the drugs were found during raids on several houses in the border city of Tijuana following a shootout, security spokesman Alejandro Poire told a news conference.
“This is the largest seizure in the country’s history of marijuana prepared and packed for sale and distribution,” Poire said.

“There are signs that (the drugs) are linked to the Pacific organization,” Poire said, referring to another name for the Sinaloa gang led by Mexico’s most-wanted fugitive, Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman.

In announcing the capture on Monday, General Alfonso Duarte said the drugs were worth about 335 million dollars on the Mexican street, but their value could double or triple if sold in the United States.
The seizure was a coup for Mexico’s President Felipe Calderon whose use of the military to crack down on the country’s drug cartels has been accompanied by soaring drug violence blamed for 28,000 deaths since 2006.

Across the border, residents of the US state of California are due to vote on November 2 on a referendum over whether to legalize marijuana for recreational use. -- AFP



Read more: Marijuana bust weighs in at 134 tons http://www.nst.com.my/nst/articles/Marijuanabustweighsinat134tons/Article/#ixzz12reBsHIl

Just look at the picture and you will get the idea of how much marijuana this is.... and im sure the pictures doesn't even show it all.

 

[kmk420kali]

If Prop 19 passes...then it inspires others to pass similar Laws...those pics could be of Mexico's Economy being boosted legally!!

 

[BIG JT]

They fear losing their own jobs of chasing down people for no reason. It's self preservation for a really evil reason. A lot of DEA people would be out of jobs if all drugs were legal.

I think all of them would be out of jobs if drugs were legal personally, I like things just the way they are, the risk/reward ratio is sweet, at least in my neck of the woods

 

[Herborizer]

Imagine if all drugs were legal. What would all the gangs of LA do? How would they make money? Would turf wars continue?

Would Lee Baca have a job left todo?

 

[BIG JT]

Everytime i hear the word "TURF" it makes me think of The Warriors "OURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR TURF....OUR LITTLE PIECE OF TURF!"

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

I want to try that Homer Simpson ganja!!!