Vegan Organics with Professor Matt Rize

[Matt Rize]

reply to chancellor spurr

reply to chancellor spurr

Roots effect the pH of the rhizosphere... as much, and often more so than microbes...

Seems like we are arguing "which came first the chicken or the egg".

Symbiotic and synergistic are two different things.

My bad, been a minute since college. I had to look up the differences between: symbiotic/mutualistic/synergistic/amensalism/commensalism as a refresher.
http://www.rpi.edu/dept/chem-eng/Biotech-Environ/MixCul/ecodefn.htm <--link for info

Lastly, the rhizosphere is only one area of importance in terms of microbes and plants, the phyllosphere and the soil solution are two other areas of great importance.

Agreed. Healthy phyllosphere microbes are part of the system. Patiently waiting for Cannabis specific data.

 

[simos]

A little off topic, but do you wonderful people have full-melt bowls like these where you are?

And how does the organic soil crew feel about butane extractions?

Hash bowls are pretty standard at quality glass shops in the bay, and all over the west coast, for that matter. They really work a lot better than a screen.

BHO is whack. I can't argue with the fact that it's strong as hell and looks cool, but you won't find me medicating with it.

Back on topic though... Still waiting on the detailed "veganics" program breakdown, if you're willing to share. Or is the plan to turn this thread into somewhat of a grow diary and let us just follow along?

Would you mind reiterating the advantages of KK's system? So far I'm gathering that it affords nice results out of the bottle that are mostly organic and somewhat "vegan." Don't get me wrong, I thought BioCanna was great stuff when I tried it, but the overall results weren't any better than EJ, and my EJ buds had fuller flavor profiles for sure. Considering the 4x price difference, I won't be giving "Kushman veganics" a try, but I would like to see if there's anything I can take away from the overall strategy and then apply to my EJ regimen the next time I'm feeling like giving it a go.

p.s. Blackberry Kush is delicious herb when done right, and yours looks nice despite the shoddy pics. I'm not doubting, I guess I'm just surprised you're unloading it for 4k. Only things I know of first hand that command that kind of compensation in the bay these days are Skywalker OG and StrawD, and IMHO those are far superior strains... A close friend has the Tahoe and Shire cuts dialed and is only clearing 35 - I'd take both over BBK 95 times out of 100. Sweet deal you got going, your collective's management must be very fond of you.

p.p.s. A couple pages back I saw you said you were applying mycorrhizal inoculants as a foliar. Why on earth would you do something like that?!?

 

[Clackamas Coot]

p.p.s. A couple pages back I saw you said you were applying mycorrhizal inoculants as a foliar. Why on earth would you do something like that?!?

Another inquiring mind would also like to know your reasoning or intended outcome.

CC

 

[Matt Rize]

No clear reason and no intended outcome

No clear reason and no intended outcome

Another inquiring mind would also like to know your reasoning or intended outcome.

Figure it can't hurt. Most of the products I'm using are bacteria/fungi combos. I have not tested the white widow yet (strictly endomyco). I really just water from above. I'm not specifically foliar feeding microbes. I do make sure my teas get on the leaves.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Okay. It was my understanding that mycorrhizal fungi isn't activated until it makes contact with the plant's roots.

CC

 

[simos]

Figure it can't hurt. Most of the products I'm using are bacteria/fungi combos. I have not tested the white widow yet (strictly endomyco). I really just water from above. I'm not specifically foliar feeding microbes. I do make sure my teas get on the leaves.

If you're getting stuff for free I guess I can understand the inkling to do whatever. Because I pay for my inoculants I'll be keeping mutualistic root fungi in the root zone where they're proven to make a tangible difference.

About the phyllosphere in general: I think we can all agree that teas on the leaves are always good news, but what do you do to raise Brix levels?

If you don't have that part of the system addressed yet, may I make suggestion that fits with your stated desire to stick with bottled products? People seem to be having stellar results with PVFS's TomHill-endorsed 2 part Brix mix.

 

[Tela]

A little off topic, but do you wonderful people have full-melt bowls like these where you are? These are designed for full-melt and oils to be "smoked" with the aid of a heated glass rod. I <3 hash. And how does the organic soil crew feel about butane extractions? Feel free to ignore if this is too off topic.

I've used one before but preferred the skillet/bell combo for a couple reasons. #1: skillets use less fuel to heat them up so i think they are a little more ecofriendly #2 when i heat the glass rod, i'm so paranoid about inhaling a piece of microglass even through water filtration that i can't enjoy it. #3 i just get better hits off the skillet. that all being said, i still prefer butane extractions to be smoked over a pile of white ash in a bubbler or chalice hands down to any of these newer fancy extract smoking methods(including the shisha charcoal). and as much of an organic nut that i am, i am down with well done and thoroughly purged and whipped super melts. i do feel a little guilty about how non "green" the butane extraction process is. def want to figure out how to recycle the butane with one of those newer machines if nothing else.

 

[One Love 731]

Looks like the same cut, She is allot bit prima donna. When ya get a BBK mom in the zone and some solid cuts she's amazing tho. Allot of IC'ers have tossed her for this reason. I ordered some Peyote Purple(Cannabiogen (frosty, purple dominate) Bubba line), Lookin for a good male to hit her (and a few other cuts) with to see if I can come up with something a lil more hearty. I tried to hit her with some selfed LVPK pollen (same pollen I made LVPK s1's with) but it didn't take. The bubble from her is top notch fur sure. If bag appeal and flavor are what your looking for she is great, the LVPK seems to hit a lil harder tho and is much heartier. Take care of her and you will be rewarded greatly. Karma, One Love

 

[TrichyTrichy]

 

[Matt Rize]

But what about the bacteria?

But what about the bacteria?

Okay. It was my understanding that mycorrhizal fungi isn't activated until it makes contact with the plant's roots.

Agreed 100% with what you said about myco fungi (ecto & endo), but what about the bacteria that is also in the these products and/or teas?
Are these bacteria not alive in the teas?
And is it possible these bacteria can 'eat' PM spores (to oversimplify)?

 

[Weird]

bacteria is what they use in serenade bacillus subtilis

 

[Microbeman]

Matt, please look over this thread

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=190022

As I suspected, you are growing under assumptions of facts which are not true which were established years ago.

Additionally, when I read what you stated about applying mycorrhizal mix (spores) to leaves, well you just need to learn at this point, not teach. (IMO)

 

[DARC MIND]

word, i do hope matt reads the many links we posted
specific words should be removed from this thread title, matt rize method discussion would work better
again, a foliar with proper ACT will inoculate ur folaige with beneficial microbes
imo ur better off spraying with milk then mycorrhizal products to control powder mildew
i think, capt and coot have been working with lactobacillus to help with PM

 

[guest2012y]

Looks like the same cut, She is allot bit prima donna. When ya get a BBK mom in the zone and some solid cuts she's amazing tho. Allot of IC'ers have tossed her for this reason. I ordered some Peyote Purple(Cannabiogen (frosty, purple dominate) Bubba line), Lookin for a good male to hit her (and a few other cuts) with to see if I can come up with something a lil more hearty. I tried to hit her with some selfed LVPK pollen (same pollen I made LVPK s1's with) but it didn't take. The bubble from her is top notch fur sure. If bag appeal and flavor are what your looking for she is great, the LVPK seems to hit a lil harder tho and is much heartier. Take care of her and you will be rewarded greatly. Karma, One Love

I hit her (BBK) with a Blue Moon Rocks male...got tons-o-seeds. This should be fun.

 

[guest2012y]

word, i do hope matt reads the many links we posted
specific words should be removed from this thread title, matt rize method discussion would work better
again, a foliar with proper ACT will inoculate ur folaige with beneficial microbes
imo ur better off spraying with milk then mycorrhizal products to control powder mildew
i think, capt and coot have been working with lactobacillus to help with PM

We came up with a simple mix of stuff for a very specific reason.
These to 1 gallon water.
1/4 cup homemade Lactobacillus culture as the active ingredient.
1/4 cup water soluable silicone (like dynagro pro-tect for example) as an emulsifier in most oil mixes but more a silicone source for stronger cells to resist attack.
1/8 teaspoon Dr.Bronner's magic soap as a surfactant (preferably one that doesn't have anti-bacterial qualities in strong effect)..because PM has a barrier that needs to be penetrated.
If in flower spray all infected plants thoroughly just before lights go out...it'll be gone in the morning. This will not affect the quality of the buds. It smells like cheese for 24 to 48 hours,but goes away leaving no noticeable residue. I've sprayed it in the last week of flower with no product issues on the dryed/bagged/smoked end.
Spray with lights off in veg cycle..allow the bacteria some time (a few hours at least) to work in the dark before hitting the lights again.
Repeat spraying every 4 or 5 days so it doesn't come back due to spores and spots you missed.
Good luck. YMMV,but it worked for me.

 

[Matt Rize]

Please read more carefully before posting

Please read more carefully before posting

word, i do hope matt reads the many links we posted
specific words should be removed from this thread title, matt rize method discussion would work better
again, a foliar with proper ACT will inoculate ur folaige with beneficial microbes
imo ur better off spraying with milk then mycorrhizal products to control powder mildew
i think, capt and coot have been working with lactobacillus to help with PM

Okay, back to reality folks. Let me start with Myco Madness, one of my inoculant products.

Myco madness has its microbes listed. I'll go back and list the species included if you really want. The point is that this standard "myco product" that you guys think is just myco, ALSO HAS 7 Bacillus spp. a couple Azobacter, Psuedomonas and some other bacteria spp.

Of course, there are also dozens of actual myco species in myco madness, and a couple Trichoderma, BUT THIS DOES NOT MEAN THIS THESE PRODUCTS ARE SOLEY FUNGAL INOCULANTS. REALLY? You should know that these products are "crappy" versions of the microbes found in teas (white widow is the exception as it is solely endo-myco)

And, I am not using these to treat PM, but to prevent.
I am well familiar with Serenade, but I'd rather prevent. Cool product.



Capt. - great post on Lacto, thanks.

 

[Matt Rize]

Mayan Microzyme = BACTERIA

Mayan Microzyme = BACTERIA

Mayan is another product that I suppose I need to describe to these guys. It is not a fungal inoculant as many of you have assumed.

"Mayan MicroZyme in a bacterial-enzymatic concentrate full of microorganisms that will increase fertility while providing vital nutrients to all types of plants and crops. The micro-organisms present in Mayan MicroZyme (MMZ) mineralize nutrients, produce and regulate nitrogen, build organic matter in your soil, and improve fertility and fruit yields by increasing nutrient uptake and availability. The micro-organisms in Mayan MicroZyme are dormant with a long shelf life because of the micro-encapsulating solution. When the concentrate is diluted in water and aerated, the micro-encapsulation dissolves and the micro-organism populations become active and increase in number.
When brewed into a rich tea the Mayan MicroZyme cannot be matched by competing products.

"Beneficial Bacteria:
(content in colony-forming units per milliliter)
Azotobacter vinelandii …………..…300,000 cfu/ml
Clostridium pasteurianum …………300,000 cfu/ml"

Back to the scissors... going to be a hot one today as well.

Thanks for giving me the opening to do a lil professing. More on my MICROBES after work.

 

[Matt Rize]

Tried milk for PM

Tried milk for PM

with proper ACT will inoculate ur folaige with beneficial microbes

agreed, but what about between teas? i only do three per run.

imo ur better off spraying with milk then mycorrhizal products to control powder mildew
i think, capt and coot have been working with lactobacillus to help with PM

my products are free (benefit of being a public Cannabis figure), and my milk is not. but i have tried the milk thing... it certainly works for pm.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

EM/AEM - lactobacillus culture = lactic acid

Same agent as found in milk without the inherent problems with applying food items to the leaves.

Then again perhaps that's discussed at OU in the graduate program what with all the required classes at this institute of higher learning. No pun intended.

sniff, sniff, sob, sob, slobber, slobber - I need a damn hankie!

CC

 

[DARC MIND]

those microbes i beleive are nitrogen fixers, mostly used on legumes and perfered method of application (i think) is to the soil or coat seeds.
are the directions on these bottled products advising to foliar?