Warning new off gassing product!!!!

[Herborizer]

You`d notice problems within a few days if it was off gassing mate.

Toke

Not always. If you have strong air exchange in your grow space, the problems can not be as forthcoming. This is my situation. When I had a sealed grow about a year ago, I lost three rounds within the first few weeks of starting them.

Not knowing what the problem was, I changed things a bit and in the process put a lot of air exchange in. Since then, I have been chasing problems. Its been a nightmare. Like others have said in this thread I had sickly looking plants, but would produce. Probably about 1/4-1/5 what I should of.

Also, I have been having a cloning issue for a long while now, and I started having the issues as soon as I moved my clones in a grow space that had the NGW tubing. Clones just won't root at all. This could be something else, but I am wondering if its the NGW tubing. We will findout very soon. I am almost 100% done with getting rid of this off gassing crap.

 

[snoopytime]

Not always. If you have strong air exchange in your grow space, the problems can not be as forthcoming. This is my situation. When I had a sealed grow about a year ago, I lost three rounds within the first few weeks of starting them.

Not knowing what the problem was, I changed things a bit and in the process put a lot of air exchange in. Since then, I have been chasing problems. Its been a nightmare. Like others have said in this thread I had sickly looking plants, but would produce. Probably about 1/4-1/5 what I should of.

Also, I have been having a cloning issue for a long while now, and I started having the issues as soon as I moved my clones in a grow space that had the NGW tubing. Clones just won't root at all. This could be something else, but I am wondering if its the NGW tubing. We will findout very soon. I am almost 100% done with getting rid of this off gassing crap.

Yes Bro I PROMISE you they will root regular & awesome now. DIBP & DBP Phthalates have an uncanny knack for fuckin the shit up from top to bottom. All my clones and veg and flower are doing great now. (i mean the ones in flower that got like 6 weeks of sealed gassing are doing great COMPARED to before but they are still pathetic). But everthing new is doing great.

Think of this stuff like your plants are smoking meth. ANYTHING BAD can happen! It REALLY throws a wrench in the works of everything good they try to do.

In my junior scientict opinion, I came up with a theory as why the roots get fucked off. (Even if the chemical doesnt directly effect them). The roots get fed by the sugars produced upstairs in the penthouse. So if they are all yellow leaves they aint producing shit. So the roots got no juice to do their regular job, nor can they have an immune system to fight off other bullshit. So they get fucked off as well. The whole living system is crippled rapidly.

 

[Squire5683]

Check my link on this issue that im having.... Does this look like this disorder?

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=190388

 

[LaOtraDroga]

Wow... Pretty sure I lost three whole crops, a car, best friend and almost everything else worth of value that I owned because of this issue...

A friend of mine built a DIY ebb n grow-type bucket system for me when I first started out. He had used the same exact system before with great results. For some reason I couldn't, for the life of me figure out why my plants kept instantly dying off (it was my first time ever growing so I had no clue of what was what). I'd blame it on heat, light intensity, root rot, phosphorus def., you name it. When I saw the pics from this thread I couldn't help but notice my plants looked exactly the same. Just so happens that all the tubing used had ngw.com stamped all over it. I think this is far from a coincidence....

Do you think it could be the Panda film? I've been having these issues and assumed it was me not having things dialed in...maybe? I have my room and floors covered in panda film.

 

[snoopytime]

Check my link on this issue that im having.... Does this look like this disorder?

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=190388

Sure looks like it to me man! That creepy yellowing is unmistakeable

 

[Herborizer]

I replaced all my 1/2 inch NGW tubing. Though, my 1 inch black drainage tubing has no markings. How can I tell if it is one that has the off-gas problem?

 

[Tokesome]

Not always. If you have strong air exchange in your grow space, the problems can not be as forthcoming. This is my situation. When I had a sealed grow about a year ago, I lost three rounds within the first few weeks of starting them.

Not knowing what the problem was, I changed things a bit and in the process put a lot of air exchange in. Since then, I have been chasing problems. Its been a nightmare. Like others have said in this thread I had sickly looking plants, but would produce. Probably about 1/4-1/5 what I should of.

Also, I have been having a cloning issue for a long while now, and I started having the issues as soon as I moved my clones in a grow space that had the NGW tubing. Clones just won't root at all. This could be something else, but I am wondering if its the NGW tubing. We will findout very soon. I am almost 100% done with getting rid of this off gassing crap.

Yeah sorry, my experience that I solved was in a m2 tent with 4"fan

What made me originally look into off gassing was due to having similar problems to what you describe, 1/3 if that of yield, losing strains where they were going fine in friends grows etc. It looked a lot like off gassing to me and I was racking my brains to try and find out what could be the cause.

I ended up with huge extraction for the size of room and things have improved somewhat, they dont look so sickly, but still suffering low yeilds and I`ve just had to give up on the Armageddon, and ditched a bigbud after a pathetic result last grow, tho it did ok else where, crap yield and very poor root systems.

How many general plastic components/items have this shit in it. I mean is it a particular type of plastic, does it have a characteristic, other than killing plants, to distinguish it?

I have found a strain, Grapefruit that is doing ok and growing uniformly and producing a decent yield.

I dont use the tubing mentioned here, but it did seem like an off gassing problem of some type. Plants that left mine in ropey condition improved quickly in there new homes. I`m not the slickest of gardeners, but have been doing so for over 20yrs.

If you can be arsed, take a look at the start of this thread that I ran at the time and see if it rings bells with you as I`m now wondering if I`m still having problems but they`re being masked by the upped extraction.

I did look at all things plastic that was used in the grow room, but everything I looked at had been in successful grows before, though it was a different property that I was now growing in.

One thing that is in this room, which sounds crazy, but there are some of those glow in the dark plastic stars stuck on the ceiling (obviously a kid`s bedroom in the past), But could a handful of little things stuck to the roof do such a thing. Must be dangerous to kids if so, but They`re still up there as I cant see them being the problem and they`re difficult to get to. (I always forget to remove them between grows and then once the plants are established)

I did improve things significantly by switching from tap water to a 50/50mix of RO/tap water. This seemed to improve things greatly especially the rooting of cuttings, but my tap water is only ec0.3 and houses in the same nieghbourhood use the tap water with no problems.

Like you say mate, always seem to be chasing problems, and plants that leave here do a bit better than they do here.

Thanks, Toke.

 

[BigForest]

wow dude i salute you for the investigative work i had the same problem last year and now i know why my yeild was smaller than expexted and my leaves started looking just like yours in the picture.I had harvested 3 3/4lbs with 3 1k'rs on a mover 21 e&f buckets with thoses hoses.when i usaly get that with 2kr's on movers.And i got rob on the first huts a few years back 500$ for the 4by8 i took a knife and cut it up, they didnt want to stand by the product,thats what the store i bought it from said. kudos

 

[snoopytime]

Tokesome, it can be in other strange things you wouldnt expect. It is used in inks, and therefore is found in recycled cardboard. Check this excerpt from http://www.dibp-facts.com/ :

"It is a fast fusing plasticiser which by itself it is too volatile for PVC applications. It is frequently used as a gelling aid in combination with other plasticisers."

"Diisobutyl phthalate (DIBP) has very similar application properties to Di-n-butyl phthalate (DBP) and may therefore be used to substitute for DBP in most, if not all, of its applications. These range from the plasticisation of PVC to the production of paints, printing inks and adhesives"

So it can be in paint, ink, and glue. What is painted, inked, or glued in your room including possibly caulking? I know for a fact DAP ALEX white caulk has A phthalate in it, apparently not the ones that we are concerned with though.

Try taking EVERYTHING else out of your room and painting the walls over with one of the paints that these guys mentioned earlier in the thread . . the sealing kind.

 

[U.G.U]

I was just looking at the MSDS for the DAP chaulk and they only say that it is a proprietary blend and give no cas#. What was the phthalate you had found. It also has formaldehyde in it. That can also cause this same offgassing problem.

 

[Tokesome]

Hey guys, sorry I`m not upon all the scientific terms. What exactly is caulking and where am I likely to see it in my room, a standard bedroom in a city house.

Plastics like black dust/refuse bins etc, flexible ish plastics, would they have this crap in them too? What about gaffa/cloth tape and the alluminium tapes, as you mention adhesives?

Thanks guys

 

[snoopytime]

Hey UGU, here is a link to the MSDS of the exact DAP caulk I have:
http://www.dap.com/docs/msds/00010002001_english.pdf

The complete MSDS list for every DAP Caulk is available at:

http://www.dap.com/msds_index.aspx

 

[snoopytime]

Oh whoops , well anyway it said branch phthalates (5 & 7) or (7 & 9) i forget which, but I googled them and they appeared to be different types.

 

[Tokesome]

You guys obviously have studied this to a great degree, which must have a good deal of science involved. Well done guys. I dont even know how to pronounce phthaltes, never mind actually understand what they are. Are there some types that are harmless as well as the poisonous ones?

I`ll try and dig up a couple of photos of the issues I`ve been fighting for 18 months or so now. Things have improved with over exracting, drain to waste, flushing thoroughly etc. But I`m still not happy with the enviroment.

I have 3 rows of 5 plants, the one on the left always does a bit worse and I can understand why.

Thanks, Toke

 

[Herborizer]

As of tonight all hoses and tubing are replaced with Hydrofarm hoses.

 

[U.G.U]

snoopytime

I found them in one of the paragraphs niether had butyl in it all the bad ones have butyl in the name.

 

[snoopytime]

Yayy Good Job Herborizer!

Yeah the caulking may impede the plants abilty to perform at 100%, but I wouldn't expect it to produce our infamous NGW hose results.

 

[Tokesome]

Hey guys, just wondered if you know if off gassing can occur from black plastic 90ltr refuse bins, or supple plastics like cheap electrical cable sleeving.

I`m wondering, because although I`ve improved my set up to a large degree, air extraction, better quality water etc., I still have problems. One may just be down to a strain issue, but I atill always have a couple of runts in the same two places in my room of 15 plants and cant put it down to environment.

Caulking, does this mean glues that might be used in fitting double glazing? As its the only thing I can see in the room that may have had something like that applied to it. The house is a stantard brick and plaster house of about a hundred years old.

I had awful syptoms of yellowing plants, interveinal and then curling up yellowed leaves and plants would look pathetic and produce a 3rd of the expected average yield, 20+yrs experience, not a noob with overlty high expectations. As I said the plants leaving mine to new homes would immediately improve, even though some are not moving far at all and all on the same water supply, excepting the possibility of dodgy pipes of course.

I dont use the black piping you`re mentioning in this thread and all my feed set up has been changed from dripper set up recirculatring to hand watering a couple of grows and then a new drain to waste set up, all in nft tanks to catch and collect the waste.

I still cant achieve what I can with the same plants, from mine, that I grow in a couple of growtents again nearby so I still suspect something is affecting my plants, but pretty sure I have everything set up well, everything has been upgraded to battle the problems.

The Armageddon I have running, 10 of them will be lucky if they produce a 1/3 of what they should be doing, whereas the 5 Grapefruit look like they`ll do reasonably well, which leads to another question, can it affect some strains more than others, or one suffers all suffers, and can two localised areas within a 14x12 foot room be affected without the rest suffering?

The 2 runts that always grow in the same place are usually neighboured by better plants.

I dont have any yellowing going on now and the plants have a healthy enough look to the leaves and the colas look fine, just minaturised.

Sorry to be a hassle guys, and hope its not too much trouble.

I could post some pics of when the problems were severe and how things are now if it`d be of any help.

Cheers, Toke

 

[U.G.U]

Tissue samples

Tissue samples

Here are the tissue samples we did I don't know how many of you have actually seem tissue samples from cannabis plants. Kind of rare I would guess.

10-98T-01 10-98T-02 10-91T-04 10-91T-05 standard values field tomato, mid bloom
good bad # 1 Bad # 2 Good Low Sufficient High
elements tomato tomato April 1, 2010 April 1, 2010
phosphorus 7,106.11 6,219.91 7,041.50 4,507.83 2,000 - 2,400 2,500 - 7,500 >7,500
potassium 32,458.25 48,920.71 67,673.35 60,897.06 10,500 - 28,900 29,000 - 50,000 >50,000
iron 350.23 608.07 152.17 161.38 30 - 39 40 - 200 >200
manganese 119.97 137.80 507.81 407.82 30 - 39 40 - 250 >250
zinc 64.89 54.41 106.04 102.75 18 - 19 29 - 50 >50
copper 7.98 11.23 9.33 10.12 3 - 4 5 - 20 >20
boron 49.53 149.97 185.61 182.69 20 - 24 25 - 60 >60
calcium 21,106.82 47,795.20 37,453.13 36,790.54 8,000 - 9,900 10,000 - 30,000 >30,000
magnesium 2,972.86 5,699.73 7,178.79 6,033.26 2,500 - 3,900 4,000 - 6,000 >6,000
sodium 479.86 481.46 433.94 493.60
sulfur 4,956.07 4,267.05 3,910.70 3,305.73 2,500 - 3,900 4,000 - 12,000 >12,000
molybdenum 4.61 5.81 4.76 5.14
aluminum 41.47 49.65 4.27 18.45 > 3
arsenic < 0.26 < 0.26 < 0.26 < 0.26 > 5
barium 2.42 7.33 5.78 6.74 > 500
cadmium 0.12 0.28 0.39 0.34 > 35
chromium 0.33 0.49 1.20 0.94 > 10
cobalt < 0.10 0.42 0.87 0.73 > 6
lead 2.31 3.71 4.52 4.10 > 35
lithium 23.85 98.66 17.62 17.13 > 50
mercury 0.07 < 0.06 < 0.06 < 0.06
nickel 0.21 0.72 0.41 0.67 > 100
selenium < 0.98 < 0.98 < 0.98 < 0.98 > 30
silicon 476.17 936.65 683.00 771.52
silver 0.32 < 0.03 < 0.03 < 0.03 > 1
strontium 153.87 380.40 83.91 82.52 > 1,000
tin 1.18 < 0.56 0.81 1.47 > 63
titanium 1.14 1.61 3.41 3.19 > 50
vanadium 2.09 2.25 2.55 2.53 > 2
nitrogen 5.84% 5.82% 4.37% 2.88% 2.5 - 4.0% 4.0 -6.0% >6.0%
chloride 1,667 5,304 2,679 1,956

Units are mg/kg (parts per million) on a dry weight basis except as noted.

 

[U.G.U]

It won't let me edit my last post here is a pdf so it is understandable