Warning new off gassing product!!!!
- Thread starter U.G.U
- Start date
Tokesome
Almost everything you listed could have the phthalate in it. But what phthalate you really have no way of knowing without testing. Phthalates are not the only problem chemical, their are dozens of others. If you think you have an offgassing problem I would just start removing things that could be the potential problem. Having enough air flow will help mask it to some extent. In the research I have read even if the plant is not showing the signs of damage because the dose is low will still have decreased harvest. I don't know what the threshold is. Also carbon filters will remove most pollutants. Including phthalates. The efficiency varies depending on amount of pollutants and the humidity. Untill you figure out the cause I would get a filter big enough to scrub your room every 45 sec. Decreased light on effected plants and foliar help a lot. Post those pics so we can have a look.
Almost everything you listed could have the phthalate in it. But what phthalate you really have no way of knowing without testing. Phthalates are not the only problem chemical, their are dozens of others. If you think you have an offgassing problem I would just start removing things that could be the potential problem. Having enough air flow will help mask it to some extent. In the research I have read even if the plant is not showing the signs of damage because the dose is low will still have decreased harvest. I don't know what the threshold is. Also carbon filters will remove most pollutants. Including phthalates. The efficiency varies depending on amount of pollutants and the humidity. Untill you figure out the cause I would get a filter big enough to scrub your room every 45 sec. Decreased light on effected plants and foliar help a lot. Post those pics so we can have a look.
Tokesome
I went through several of your old threads some of your pics do have this same look. I did not see anything as severe though. Really your only options are. PH, not enought nutes, or offgassing. So if you have the 1st two checked off it has to be the 3rd. You just have to figure out what.
I went through several of your old threads some of your pics do have this same look. I did not see anything as severe though. Really your only options are. PH, not enought nutes, or offgassing. So if you have the 1st two checked off it has to be the 3rd. You just have to figure out what.
LonelyNerd
Member
Here here!
Heu U.G.U, thanks very much for your info and thoughts re my situ. Sorry about my lil complaint at being invisible
, I do have o ton of respect for you and your excellent work and had already given you good rep bro.
The threads you looked at of mine, I assume you mean my early diary, not my recent one, when things were driving me nuts, if you saw pics of plants suffering badly in a grow tent, then that was definitely off gassing and is solved, but the 15 plant grow with the issues I`ve seriously improved but dont feel I`m out of the woods on this yet and it definitely seemed like they were being seriously poisoned before.
As far as ph and ec, they`re fine although in the early days of the problem I may have over watered, hence suffocating them, or it could have been that the problem prohibited root growth and they then suffocated. Then in a bid to solve things I may have starved them by feeding too little and letting them dry out too much, its just to hard to call. I`ve grown for a long time tho and other than a couple of attacks from pythium back in my hydro days I`ve always had fairly consistent results even though I`ve not always been at my best as a gardener, so I feel sure there is something more than me not getting things right, to what`s been happening.
Changing the water to RO/tap 50/50 instead of all tap water did make a huge difference. This was most obvious in the cuttings rooting in humidity domes, before the switch they were looking very sad by the time they`d rooted, after they looked lush and green. Are these nasty chemicals only air born in gas form or can they affect individual water supplies?
I also upped my extraction though from something not really very adequate (although had managed ok) to a 950c3 with carbon filter rated at 1080c3, but it is only for extraction and not for an intake, my intake is passive. Obviously the air movement would help as you suggest, but do you mean to scrub air on intake?
I still believe something is not right because as I said plants from here do at least a little better than every where they go than they do here, even though I now have one strain that is doing pretty well along side one that isn`t, has anyone found that some strains are more resistant to interference than others, assuming they`re both healthy strains in the first place, or is it a bit like humans and cyanide. . . .it fooks us all up.
I`m assuming the standard black & white plastic sheeting that is sold for lining grow areas is safe.
I cant remove everything from the grow room at the moment due to a flowering crop in situ, but even then, it seems like almost everything in there is a possible source of a problem which would make it difficult to eliminate. So not an easy task to say the least. Are there confirmed problems with many different sources or is it so far just the tents and this plastic piping that has been confirmed?
Thanks, Toke
Heu U.G.U, thanks very much for your info and thoughts re my situ. Sorry about my lil complaint at being invisible
, I do have o ton of respect for you and your excellent work and had already given you good rep bro.The threads you looked at of mine, I assume you mean my early diary, not my recent one, when things were driving me nuts, if you saw pics of plants suffering badly in a grow tent, then that was definitely off gassing and is solved, but the 15 plant grow with the issues I`ve seriously improved but dont feel I`m out of the woods on this yet and it definitely seemed like they were being seriously poisoned before.
As far as ph and ec, they`re fine although in the early days of the problem I may have over watered, hence suffocating them, or it could have been that the problem prohibited root growth and they then suffocated. Then in a bid to solve things I may have starved them by feeding too little and letting them dry out too much, its just to hard to call. I`ve grown for a long time tho and other than a couple of attacks from pythium back in my hydro days I`ve always had fairly consistent results even though I`ve not always been at my best as a gardener, so I feel sure there is something more than me not getting things right, to what`s been happening.
Changing the water to RO/tap 50/50 instead of all tap water did make a huge difference. This was most obvious in the cuttings rooting in humidity domes, before the switch they were looking very sad by the time they`d rooted, after they looked lush and green. Are these nasty chemicals only air born in gas form or can they affect individual water supplies?
I also upped my extraction though from something not really very adequate (although had managed ok) to a 950c3 with carbon filter rated at 1080c3, but it is only for extraction and not for an intake, my intake is passive. Obviously the air movement would help as you suggest, but do you mean to scrub air on intake?
I still believe something is not right because as I said plants from here do at least a little better than every where they go than they do here, even though I now have one strain that is doing pretty well along side one that isn`t, has anyone found that some strains are more resistant to interference than others, assuming they`re both healthy strains in the first place, or is it a bit like humans and cyanide. . . .it fooks us all up.
I`m assuming the standard black & white plastic sheeting that is sold for lining grow areas is safe.
I cant remove everything from the grow room at the moment due to a flowering crop in situ, but even then, it seems like almost everything in there is a possible source of a problem which would make it difficult to eliminate. So not an easy task to say the least. Are there confirmed problems with many different sources or is it so far just the tents and this plastic piping that has been confirmed?
Thanks, Toke
"I assume you mean my early diary, not my recent one, when things were driving me nuts"
No they were not in a tent. They look pretty good overall but I saw some interveinal chlorosis on a few looked like a mag def. Offgassing is normally mistaken for either mag, iron, or sulfur. That is why it is so hard to diagnose you keep thinking a nute or PH problem.
"Are these nasty chemicals only air born in gas form or can they affect individual water supplies?"
In the air for sure. I just found out the other day it is semi soluble in water but I have yet to find research on the effect. I can't imagine it is good.
"Obviously the air movement would help as you suggest, but do you mean to scrub air on intake"
No scrub air in the room as a recirculater if you are scrubbing the exhaust or intake it would not help with the offgassing problem.
"I’m assuming the standard black & white plastic sheeting that is sold for lining grow areas is safe"
Assume nothing my friend. If its made in china and of plastic its probably offgassing something bad
"Are there confirmed problems with many different sources or is it so far just the tents and this plastic piping that has been confirmed?
So far the NGW tube, old hydro huts and I have heard multiple people complaining about the ez cloners lately
No they were not in a tent. They look pretty good overall but I saw some interveinal chlorosis on a few looked like a mag def. Offgassing is normally mistaken for either mag, iron, or sulfur. That is why it is so hard to diagnose you keep thinking a nute or PH problem.
"Are these nasty chemicals only air born in gas form or can they affect individual water supplies?"
In the air for sure. I just found out the other day it is semi soluble in water but I have yet to find research on the effect. I can't imagine it is good.
"Obviously the air movement would help as you suggest, but do you mean to scrub air on intake"
No scrub air in the room as a recirculater if you are scrubbing the exhaust or intake it would not help with the offgassing problem.
"I’m assuming the standard black & white plastic sheeting that is sold for lining grow areas is safe"
Assume nothing my friend. If its made in china and of plastic its probably offgassing something bad
"Are there confirmed problems with many different sources or is it so far just the tents and this plastic piping that has been confirmed?
So far the NGW tube, old hydro huts and I have heard multiple people complaining about the ez cloners lately
Very obliged mate thankyou. The Grow tent that we got that off gassed badly was un branded and bought for £80ish on Ebay and had a white supple plastic spill tray and the same plastic for the intake and outtake vent sleeves, once these were removed all was ok.
One thing I do distinctly remember is the awful toxic smell that came from it once the lights were on and things had got up to temperature. Its the type of smell that could easily give you a headache. I just wondered if this NGW tubing smells toxic/chemically bad, especially when warm. The off-gassing is not only dangerous to plants I feel.
I guess it`d be too good to be true that the smell of the plastic could be a clue for those of us trying to establish what if anything is off-gassing. What do you think?
Sorry if that`s already been covered in the thread, I haven`t got through half of it yet.
I really do take my hat off to good but angry folk like yourself with a sense for justice in a fucked up world where justice for the small guy seems to be irrelevant.
Here are photos of the symptoms that occurred not only in the tent
Cheers, Toke
You can smell the phthalate coming off the NGW tube just like you are talking when you put your nose up to it. When its out in your room with all the other stuff it is not noticable like the hydro hut would be. That is a good Idea just smell everything in your room anything smelling like chemicals take it out. If its been in use for a while and still smells new thats probaly your problem.
I think I was editing the text and adding photos during your last reply.
Mmm. . . that could be a good starting point, I`m going to get on that one tmro, leave the extraction off for a while and go round smelling things. Smells heavily of dank bud at the moment in there though, so may be difficult. If so I`ll do a thorough check after harvest.
I wonder if the ez cloners have a smell about them, I`ll see if I can find that out tmro and report back.
Cheers, Toke
Mmm. . . that could be a good starting point, I`m going to get on that one tmro, leave the extraction off for a while and go round smelling things. Smells heavily of dank bud at the moment in there though, so may be difficult. If so I`ll do a thorough check after harvest.
I wonder if the ez cloners have a smell about them, I`ll see if I can find that out tmro and report back.
Cheers, Toke
sippin' sangrea on my dads yacht...boats and hoe's
okay does anyone have any word on the plastic black grow pots doing any of this??
Anyone have any idea how long the affects of the off gassing goes away? I have a 1/2 dozen cuttings (that I am trying to root) that were exposed. My environment exchanges air in my room about 2-3 times per minute with outside air. I know no one knows for sure, but it would be cool if the people experienced with this issue would make a guess.
In the tent, the plants improved almost instantly once the offending material was removed, although obviously it was slow for a week. These were well rooted clones in veg tho, not cuttings.
How long is since they were taken, and were the leaves on the cuts affected themselves, and were the plants the were taken from bad?
toke
How long is since they were taken, and were the leaves on the cuts affected themselves, and were the plants the were taken from bad?
toke
0'dweeds
Member
I was thinking the panda film could also be part of the problem after reading this thread. Plants were in a 8x4 box made of only 2x4's and panda film. I've only had two decent pulls with this set up and they both happened to be during winter. Was wondering if the extra heat was causing this so called off gassing issue but there seems to be a lot of people using panda with no issues.
I had a 80 foot roll of panda film in my grow space. Just moved it out of there. I wish there was a test kit that would sample the air and tell you if you have off-gassing.
alphacat
Member
Obviously PVC is a vinyl product and it's been turning up in toxicity assessment reports more and more often. This funky NGW tubing is just the tip of the iceberg.
The bad news is that hydro growers have come to rely on PVC because of its cost, ease of use, and widespread availability... when I think of all the buds I've smoked that've probably soaked up some of these carcinogenic long polymer chains it makes me a little nervous.
Anybody got any PVC alternatives they'd like to share? I found this stuff called Greenpipe that's a proprietary 'safe' polypropylene, but it's impossible to buy on the consumer level in America currently. What else is out there that's safe that we can build modular systems out?
The bad news is that hydro growers have come to rely on PVC because of its cost, ease of use, and widespread availability... when I think of all the buds I've smoked that've probably soaked up some of these carcinogenic long polymer chains it makes me a little nervous.
Anybody got any PVC alternatives they'd like to share? I found this stuff called Greenpipe that's a proprietary 'safe' polypropylene, but it's impossible to buy on the consumer level in America currently. What else is out there that's safe that we can build modular systems out?
Test kit for off-gassing,. . . . yeah that`d be more than useful mate.
Do any of the plastic items you`re suspecting have a toxic nasty plastic smell to it? Both the Plastic piping heading this thread and the plastic from the grow tents have that acrid smell about them. The plastic in the tent had a much stronger odour when warm under lights as, I suspect, does the NWG piping.
I dont think you should overlook this guys, it may be the most useful test kit we have for the time being.
Toke
Do any of the plastic items you`re suspecting have a toxic nasty plastic smell to it? Both the Plastic piping heading this thread and the plastic from the grow tents have that acrid smell about them. The plastic in the tent had a much stronger odour when warm under lights as, I suspect, does the NWG piping.
I dont think you should overlook this guys, it may be the most useful test kit we have for the time being.
Toke
I agree mate, I hate to have a sense of scaremongering, smacks too much of those wretched politicians, but I think as the world craves cheaper and cheaper products and companies want higher and higher profit margins, and there are countries prepared to make them without our usual concerns for safety, this problem is bound to get worse rather than better.
Alternatives could be useful, as could a safe list from punters or manufacturers that give worthwhile promises about the safety of their plastic products for both plants, pets and us.
Also, talking ideally now tho, would some sort of plastics expert/specialist, who doesn`t grow, to champion our cause and put the real facts out there so we have more idea what we can safely use. You could bet Hydro manufacturers etc would produce our equipment with the correct materials if the knowledge was common, otherwise they`d soon go out of bussiness.
Cheers, Toke
Oh my fucking God.... I can not believe this shit.... I mean after 5 months of root aphid problems i though I was gonna loose my mind.... solved it here at IC....and after 3 different batches of seeds failing and some nice plants I got from a bud who helped me out after I solved the aphid problem...constant yellowing.... nothing I did would help.... nothing... I feel sick.... I am using 1/4 tubing from home depot, 1/2 from ngw and ecoplus tubing.....holy fuck... I almost punched through the screen just now...I am sick to my stomach... It makes sense... I was hand watering with no tubing around and everything fucking looked awsome...then I put it in the system and yellow yellow yellow..... 5 days and every leaf was totally yellow...
what tubing can I use? what pots are safe to use? please help fast.....thousands down the drain and I just cracked my last batch of seeds...if these dont make it I have to move back home.....I hate NGW...
I might just hand water coco again....
I dont wanna sound like a bitch but I have cried twice in the last month
what tubing can I use? what pots are safe to use? please help fast.....thousands down the drain and I just cracked my last batch of seeds...if these dont make it I have to move back home.....I hate NGW...
I might just hand water coco again....
I dont wanna sound like a bitch but I have cried twice in the last month
S
snoopytime
Hoot, welcome to the answer. Yeah it feels great to find out the problem but terrible to know you were suckered by a company selling stuff to help grow plants that actually kills plants.
So far, UGU put a link in the first few pages of a safe hose company. Also personally I and a few others have been changing to HYDROFARM 1/2" hose and it seems much better.
Yank that shit out!
So far, UGU put a link in the first few pages of a safe hose company. Also personally I and a few others have been changing to HYDROFARM 1/2" hose and it seems much better.
Yank that shit out!
S
snoopytime
By the way, ECOPLUS IS NGW
