What can we do about Climate Change?

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Yes...global warming IS happening...so what do we do?

Address the problem through "the market"? You mean carbon credits? Are you insane? (not you personally, I don't want to violate the TOU) Carbon credits are just a moneymaking scheme...THAT is the political solution that doesn't solve anything but channeling money to poor countries. They'll have credits but no emissions...they'll sell "nothing" and get money. Welfare...plain and simple. And it won't actually STOP anyone from making as much carbon as they want. Is there going to be a guy on every corner sniffing out emissions?

The government, business, EVERYONE lies to you to get what THEY want. Except me...I'm telling you the truth. Politics IS the problem...with just about everything.

I'm sticking to "we must cut the world population by half and everyone left, get's to live the good life. The only other option is overpopulation and the misery for everyone it creates". The beauty of this is...every man for themselves will get our genetics back to par. Because for the last 40 or so years, only the poor and...well, we'll leave that out...let's just say that for the past 40 years or so, as a "human race", we haven't exactly been on a breeding for perfection binge. The bottom rung on the evolutionary ladder, are having all the kids. The people at the top, are losing population. We're breeding ourselves into the lowest common denominator. So who better to "let go"? In terms we can all relate to..."we're not buying good genetics".

Don't get pissed...I'm just defending my position.

I never suggested carbon credits at all.
I am talking about a myriad of new tech that addresses the problems and makes wealth for ambitious people while eliminating the need and desirability for old 'dirty' tech.

If you would read the thread I've posted up many such solutions.
fuck carbon credits, we can make fossil fuel moot.


I could never ever live with myself being in the half of the population that sacrificed the lives of the other half, just to be more comfortable... but maybe that's just me.

How about this one... You get to reduce the world population by half, solely for the comfort of the half to stay alive... but every person in the half to stay alive has to kill one person from the other half with their bare hands while looking into their eyes...

 

[ibjamming]

I've made it quite clear that no one need be killed. Education can reduce the global population. I am well aware of the issues and I chose to only have one child. Given the fact that 15% or so of the population will never reproduce, If half of the couples that do chose to have only one child (more common among the more educated), and half of the couples having more than one child chose to themselves to two (also more common with education), then even in spite of the couples who chose to have more than two there would be negative population growth.

So...bottom line you agree with me. Population of the poor needs to be cut way back. It's the execution ) we disagree with.

Education doesn't work...we've tried it...for 40 years! NOTHING changes but the bills get bigger along with the population. Hell, look at schools in America in the inner city. With some people education doesn't "take". It's the way it is...the hard reality of life. It's what you get when you take the worst two examples of genetics and breed them together. It's not racist...it's facts. There are white scum too...plenty. They can join the others that have to "go away". I'm not saying we go in and kill them...we let them go by attrition...the best of EVERY race survives to reproduce. Those who can't make the cut...don't.

Maybe some birth control powder in the food won't hurt either. Would you have offense to doing that? Chemical temporary sterilization? For those on government assistance. And for those receiving government food.





So let them go for it...nobody is stopping anyone from inventing some new energy source. But it won't happen until oil runs out or becomes VERY expensive.

I'm glad to hear you view of carbon credits...

I don't care what you do...9 billion people can't all live like the 1 billion westerners...it aint gonna happen. Hopefully the ride up isn't over yet and we've got a few decades of the "free" oil...after that, we're fucked unless we can get some really efficient shit going. Also...it MUST be something that they can charge you for. They HAVE to get that monthly charge...

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

So...bottom line you agree with me. Population of the poor needs to be cut way back. It's the execution ) we disagree with.

Education doesn't work...we've tried it...for 40 years! NOTHING changes but the bills get bigger along with the population. Hell, look at schools in America in the inner city. With some people education doesn't "take". It's the way it is...the hard reality of life. It's what you get when you take the worst two examples of genetics and breed them together. It's not racist...it's facts. There are white scum too...plenty. They can join the others that have to "go away". I'm not saying we go in and kill them...we let them go by attrition...the best of EVERY race survives to reproduce. Those who can't make the cut...don't.

Maybe some birth control powder in the food won't hurt either. Would you have offense to doing that? Chemical temporary sterilization? For those on government assistance. And for those receiving government food.

We have not tried teaching birth control worldwide for 40 years... that's bullshit.
The catholic church has priests all over the third world teaching just the opposite for hundreds of years... An evil placed upon them by european whites.


Education is the answer, not genocide.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

How about this one... You get to reduce the world population by half, solely for the comfort of the half to stay alive... but every person in the half to stay alive has to kill one person from the other half with their bare hands while looking into their eyes...

in case you missed it...

 

[sac beh]

I'm sticking to "we must cut the world population by half and everyone left, get's to live the good life. The only other option is overpopulation and the misery for everyone it creates". The beauty of this is...every man for themselves will get our genetics back to par. Because for the last 40 or so years, only the poor and...well, we'll leave that out...let's just say that for the past 40 years or so, as a "human race", we haven't exactly been on a breeding for perfection binge. The bottom rung on the evolutionary ladder, are having all the kids. The people at the top, are losing population. We're breeding ourselves into the lowest common denominator. So who better to "let go"? In terms we can all relate to..."we're not buying good genetics".

Did you read my post above? Your proposed solution fails upon the most cursory examination of the data. Its a qualitative problem, not quantitative. We could lose this half of the population that bothers you and the problem of climate change and environmental sustainability could still exist. Why? Because the proportion of environmental impact for which the developed countries are responsible exceeds that of the countries and peoples you are blaming, even given their greater numbers. And given the attitude of the half you would like to keep, the problem would probably even worsen in your scenario. You've demonstrated to us that you have no rationale besides hatred and a personal grudge to back your claims.

You should really stop posting the same racist rant over and over. Its very off topic. Each new repetition refuses to come on topic and deal with the facts presented.

 

[ibjamming]

We have not tried teaching birth control worldwide for 40 years... that's bullshit.
The catholic church has priests all over the third world teaching just the opposite for hundreds of years... An evil placed upon them by european whites.


Education is the answer, not genocide.

I believe in Africa...there are more Muslims (Islam was introduced by the slavers) teaching their beliefs than Christians (introduced later by the colonists). The Christians were in the colonies...which WERE very nice places before independence...

Yes...religion is evil...if nothing else because it's a lie. I'm NOT defending Christians.

in case you missed it...

I don't know...but if I don't have to, I won't. Like I said...don't actually KILL anyone...just stop supporting them, let them fend for themselves. If they can make it, if they can figure out a way, fine.

Did you read my post above? Your proposed solution fails upon the most cursory examination of the data. Its a qualitative problem, not quantitative. We could lose this half of the population that bothers you and the problem of climate change and environmental sustainability could still exist. Why? Because the proportion of environmental impact for which the developed countries are responsible exceeds that of the countries and peoples you are blaming, even given their greater numbers. And given the attitude of the half you would like to keep, the problem would probably even worsen in your scenario. You've demonstrated to us that you have no rationale besides hatred and a personal grudge to back your claims.

You should really stop posting the same racist rant over and over. Its very off topic. Each new repetition refuses to come on topic and deal with the facts presented.

So...what YOU are wanting is for the US to cut way back...you're saying that WE are the problem and it's not a "future" problem with them wanting to be just like us, like the Chinese are doing.

Hell, if you think we're already in the soup as a planet...we're fucking dead already. You're talking about the US having to go back 100 years to reverse it. Well, I guess there won't be too many more generations...I'm not cutting back...I deserve a life like this! (that was a joke).

Actually, I'm not sure where we are as far as global warming. And I'm not convinced it's entirely man made. Sure, we help, but it could be natural...mostly...

The question is...what DO we do? I don't think we can stop it, so we're going to have to work around it. And I REALLY think that a world with half...or less...the population we have now, is the best way to make it through this.

There's no question it's getting warmer...but how will it affect us? Will it be gradual enough to cope? Food production is where I worry...with global warming, farming regions will change...as it adjusts, I'd imagine there will be less food. With an exponentially growing population and less food, where will that leave us? Better to go ahead and cut aid to the poor and let the population fall through attrition before the hard times come.

Why not?

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

I believe in Africa...there are more Muslims teaching their beliefs than Christians. The Christians were in the colonies...which WERE very nice places before independence.

Yes...religion is evil...if nothing else because it's a lie. I'm NOT defending Christians.

Africa is not the entire third world. Yes religion is evil.

I don't know...but if I don't have to, I won't. Like I said...don't actually KILL anyone...just stop supporting them, let them fend for themselves. If they can make it, if they can figure out a way, fine.

What if ambitious American manufacturers paid third world workers enough to have an american standard of living?

Sure your cellphone would cost twice as much, but at least you would not have to help any hungry exploited poor people.

So...what YOU are wanting is for the US to cut way back...you're saying that WE are the problem and it's not a "future" problem with them wanting to be just like us, like the Chinese are doing.

What so you think we should be able to consume the majority of the worlds resources, and fuck the rest of the world?

I think everyone ought to value being good humans over being wealthy comfortable humans... US, UK, China... the whole fucking lot of us.

Hell, if you think we're already in the soup as a planet...we're fucking dead already. You're talking about the US having to go back 100 years to reverse it. Well, I guess there won't be too many more generations...I'm not cutting back...I deserve a life like this! (that was a joke).

Nothing in that paragraph applies to anything i've said.

If you think you deserve excess at someone else's expense, then we have nothing more to discuss.

Actually, I'm not sure where we are as far as global warming. And I'm not convinced it's entirely man made. Sure, we help, but it could be natural...mostly...

The question is...what DO we do? I don't think we can stop it, so we're going to have to work around it. And I REALLY think that a world with half...or less...the population we have now, is the best way to make it through this.

There's no question it's getting warmer...but how will it affect us? Will it be gradual enough to cope? Food production is where I worry...with global warming, farming regions will change...as it adjusts, I'd imagine there will be less food. With an exponentially growing population and less food, where will that leave us? Better to go ahead and cut aid to the poor and let the population fall through attrition before the hard times come.

Why not?

Man made global warming is irrefutable.

Dry climes will get hotter and drier... wet climes will get wetter and stormier.

If we do not curtail our emissions of greenhouse gasses it will not be gradual. Models predict acceleration warming, and accelerating warming is being observed.

Farming regions will change.

Best to go ahead and educate the poor, so they'll understand religion is evil and logical voluntary birth control, along with investment in greener tech is the completely feasible salvation of the species.

 

[sac beh]

So...what YOU are wanting is for the US to cut way back...you're saying that WE are the problem and it's not a "future" problem with them wanting to be just like us, like the Chinese are doing.

I haven't actually said that. All I've said is that population control, as you've described it, is not a viable solution, and I've pointed you to data that explains why. The highest ranking region of the world in terms of life expectancy, life satisfaction, and environmental footprint is Latin America. This may surprise you given your stated views of the people here. In fact, Central America and the Caribbean have the top 4 countries in the world in this study, and here's some interesting information on why:

Survey data reveals two key features of Latin American culture. One is the presence of relatively unmaterialistic aspirations and values, compared to countries with similar economic conditions.122 Latin Americans report being much less concerned with material issues than, for example, they are with their friends and family. Secondly, social capital is particularly strong in the region. Civil society is very active, from religious groups to workers’ groups to environmental groups. The data on ‘formal’ social capital is reflected in anecdotal evidence of informal social capital in terms of strong family and community ties.

We have already seen, in Chapter 3, how these two factors – non-material aspirations and social relations – are crucial to well-being. In Latin America, they combine to create a society that is able to rise above economic hardships, whilst drawing great benefit from its social links. It is worth noting that, despite a poor economic record in terms of average income and an even poorer record in terms of inequality, Latin America still enjoys levels of health that are close to those of Central Europe and often superior to Eastern Europe. As well as reasonable state provision in many countries (e.g., in Colombia almost half of the country’s 44 million people enjoy free public health care), this is likely to be in part due to strong social networks forming a safety net for those who are less fortunate.

Some have mocked the high levels of reported life satisfaction in Latin American countries as belying a lack of knowledge of anything better (i.e. Western lifestyles). On the contrary, Latin America is perhaps more exposed to North American culture than anywhere else in the developing world. Yet somehow
it has been more resitant to idolising this lifestyle, or at least more able to be happy with its own way of life despite this influence. Pura vida is a popular expression in Costa Rica which is used somewhat like the English term ‘cool’. It translates literally as ‘pure life’ and represents in itself an attitude to what is important.

Whether this satisfaction is well-founded or not, it may have played a vital role in Latin America’s history. In her book Positivity, Professor Barbara Frederickson talks about how positive emotions tend to provide positive feedback and enable people to flourish and build resilience to future challenges.123 Perhaps this explains why Latin America, despite its chequered history, is now able to boast functioning democracies in most countries.

Indeed, Latin America is currently enjoying a renaissance of civic engagement. Around the continent, people are engaging with democracy more, and, in 2007, only three countries were in the bottom-third of the worldwide distribution for the World Bank’s Voice & Accountability indicator.124 In two of these three cases, there are strong arguments for believing that these low scores merely reflect how voice has been defined narrowly in this indicator.125,126 New participative forms of democracy, such as participatory budgeting, and local action groups are springing up across the region.127 The writer Roy Madron is currently working on a book entitled Can Latin America save the world? where he highlights the promise of these new approaches for dealing with global problems of climate change and social justice.128

Moving from matters social to environmental, Latin America’s small per capita footprints are not just ‘par for the course’ for developing countries. The footprints of many of these countries, from Argentina to Mexico, are less than what would be expected given their levels of GDP.129 The region has implemented many pro-environmental solutions that richer countries have balked at. Colombia
has its own ‘green constitution’. We have already mentioned Costa Rica’s almost complete elimination of fossil fuels for electricity production. Brazil is the second-largest producer of hydroelectric power worldwide; 70 per cent of Colombia’s energy is produced in this way. Mexico is the third-largest producer of geothermal energy. Overall, in 2004, 24.8 per cent of Latin America’s electricity came from renewable energy.130 By comparison, in the EU, at that time, the total was only 13.7 per cent.131

So here in a region of the world that you consider useless and expendable, and on which you have attempted to place the blame for climate change, we have the most environmentally-friendly, content people in the world.

You just have such strong racially-motivated views of the world, that you can't see reality.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

RWE AG, BASF SE and Linde AG said their method of capturing carbon-dioxide from power-station smokestacks uses 20 percent less energy than other technologies.

The three companies have tested chemical solvents in capturing CO2, a greenhouse gas blamed for climate change, at RWE’s Niederaussem power station near Cologne, Germany, according to a joint statement e-mailed today. The results pave the way for scaling up to large power plants, they said.

“By enhancing efficiency and accordingly reducing costs, we have created a critical success factor for carbon capture technology, which in our view is key to climate-compatible power generation from coal,” Johannes Heithoff, vice president of research and development at RWE Power, said in the statement.

So-called carbon capture and storage has been supported by European governments as a way of reducing emissions. The technology has yet to be proven for large-scale use. Electricity is required to capture the greenhouse gas.

RWE, BASF and Linde are working to prove capture of CO2 from entire power stations, the statement said. The CO2 can then be piped for storage underground or can be converted into products such as fertilizers, they said.

=]

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

So let them go for it...nobody is stopping anyone from inventing some new energy source. But it won't happen until oil runs out or becomes VERY expensive.

I believe Educated and Concerned entrepreneurs will probably create solutions which are so cost effective and make so much sense, The oil industry can no longer afford rape the earth for an increasingly difficult to find and harvest resource.

here's some promising leads...

Turning CO2 and Methane (greenhouse gasses) into liquid fuels which can be used in all existing vehicles and supplied by existing infrastructure: http://www.smartplanet.com/business...tech-were-turning-pollution-into-energy/8629/

Turning Piss into clean water and free electricity: http://www.suite101.com/content/urine-could-be-used-to-create-green-electricity-a276321

Solar power from a paint job: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=cheap-solar-paint-takes-a-giant-ste-2010-04

 

[RetroGrow]

How about we just say: "We're having a tough time too...you're on your own...good luck"...and leave it at that? We don't OWE anyone anything.

You act as though we're dealing with smart, intelligent, practical, hard working people...we're NOT...that's why they're IN the position they are! But people don't get that relationship. They can't comprehend that some peoples are not quite as bright and hard working as other peoples...never were and never will be. But we don't stop trying. We don't stop lowering the standards and expectations. We keep dragging ourselves down to their level...so they can "compete".

Why is it "my" responsibility to take care of and educate others? Isn't that part of our problem in the US? We educated everyone else and now they compete with us...and take jobs away because now they have the education to do our jobs...at a lower price. We fuck ourselves trying to do the "right" thing. What's the saying? "No good deed goes unpunished"...well we're getting punished...and we brought it upon our selves!

RetroGrow, this is a general reply...not specific to you...please don't take offense...I'm ranting.

I'm just so sick and tired of giving giving giving and getting nothing but grief back. We send billions to countries that treat us like shit...fuck them, cut them off! We spend billions and billions on the poor here in America...and they treat us and talk about us like shit...fuck them too!

Sometimes I almost look forward to the big collapse...just so I can laugh when they're standing in the streets with that "deer in the headlights" look. All the shit "we" did for you with no thanks...taking our money and laughing at us suckers for giving it to you...well, who has the last laugh now?

We've got BIG problems in the world...too many idiots is the biggest. We're doing the opposite of what we're supposed to be doing...we're breeding the WORST more than the best. The poor and lazy are the ones having the children...not the smart and hard working. We're breeding ourselves into oblivion. And we PAY these people to breed us out of our own planet!

Yup, we need a huge disaster...we need to lose about 1/2 the worlds population. but, thanks to the US...there are no big disasters any more...we send in aid...we fix things up...so they can start having kids again.

Thanks for letting me vent...

As for climate change...it's here, no matter the cause. We need to deal with the changes that ARE coming...not spend money on "Carbon Credits".

Have a good day...

I agree, almost completely. I realize we are dealing with people who are stuck on stupid. Ignorance begets ignorance, and the cycle of ignorance/poverty/refugees continues. I feel we should give an effort to educate and reward for "good" behavior, but with our "leaders" having their heads up their asses, the problem is not going away. Notice that our "leaders" will not even touch the topic!
It's incredible! No one speaks about it, but they rail against environmental degradation (rightfully so) without admitting the root cause!
It's mind boggling to me. I blame our "leaders", both governmental and corporate, as they think primarily of their voting base, cheap labor, and more people to sell things to, rather than the over all good of the planet.
It's a numbers game, and numbers don't lie.
They don't have politics or agendas.
They tell us the truth, and the truth is painful.
The year I was born, there were 3 billion people in the world. It took hundreds of thousands of years to reach that number. It took only 50 more years to double, and still climbing. This cannot continue.
The numbers say so....
Our greatest problem, and we don't even address it?

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

The irrefutable evidence of Man Made Global Warming.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/Emp...erprints-of-anthropogenic-global-warming.html

http://www.skepticalscience.com/Quantifying-the-human-contribution-to-global-warming.html

 

[ibjamming]

I haven't actually said that. All I've said is that population control, as you've described it, is not a viable solution, and I've pointed you to data that explains why. The highest ranking region of the world in terms of life expectancy, life satisfaction, and environmental footprint is Latin America. This may surprise you given your stated views of the people here. In fact, Central America and the Caribbean have the top 4 countries in the world in this study, and here's some interesting information on why:



So here in a region of the world that you consider useless and expendable, and on which you have attempted to place the blame for climate change, we have the most environmentally-friendly, content people in the world.

You just have such strong racially-motivated views of the world, that you can't see reality.

Actually, I think it's ME with the firmer grip on reality...

Just what I thought...bullshit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy
Central/South America is NOT at the top of the life expectancy list...in fact, ONLY Guatamala is above the US...the rest are below. And besides, we all know "who" brings down ALL the stats for the US...I'll give you a hint...it starts out with the letters "minorit... THEY, when added to "our" stats, bring them way down.

Why do you think that Canada, Australia, Japan, and Northern Europe are at the top...? Please, I'd like your opinion...I have mine, and I bet you can guess...very few minorit...

I'm not going to get dragged into a black/brown vs white fight...like your "irrefutable" global warming evidence...I have irrefutable evidence of my own...I just can't use it or say anything. Because it won't be politically correct, I'll be "bashing" people of color...and we all know that's not allowed.

BTW, did you notice Africa on the chart? Pretty obvious there are big problems there...please explain their ranking and please explain why they're ranked where they are.

Now explain why they rank the same no matter which country they happen to be living in. If you were to take the US stats and then break them down by race, you'd see that there would be a similar chart but the division would be blue/purple colors for white regions and more red/black for the black areas. It follows them... Please explain the reason for that? Is THAT "my" fault too?

You liberals get these crazy ideas in your head that everyone is the same...you massage the data to "fit", albeit VERY loosely...instead of being honest with the interpretation. Look at the stats with a OPEN mind and you'll see it hits you in the face.

I don't blame anyone specifically for climate change...because I'm not SURE what is causing it. I know burning fossil fuels isn't helping, but is it REALLY the root cause and the biggest cause...I'm not so sure.

AND, I believe that adding more and more people who ALL want to live the way we do, isn't sustainable. You know, I'd like to live like some rich guy, fancy cars, fancy house, world cruises, my own jet...but I don't have the money to get these things...you think I deserve to be given these things? So why are we "giving things" to whole countries? Let them improve themselves and earn things themselves...just like I'm expected to do. I suggest we extend that to ALL welfare...we should make welfare like unemployment, you get it temporarily and then it stops...kids or not. We're not supporting you forever. And no more kids until you can at the least support yourself.

Actually, I blame women for most of our problems. You've succeeded in feminizing men, and you've also forced me to pay to for your kids. Kids YOU shouldn't be having. And you wouldn't have them if I had my way. Women have a "I deserve it just because I do" mentality...we deserve to have YOU support us is a big one. You skip your pill, or don't take any, have sex with some poor fool, and charge him for life to take care of you and the bastard child. So yes, I'm not too thrilled with "you" either.

Our society has become full of crying, complaining, expecting to be taken care of...wimps. It's always someone else's fault, someone else HAS to bail me out. give me, give me, give me... It's time "you" started adding something GOOD instead of being a leech.

I believe Educated and Concerned entrepreneurs will probably create solutions which are so cost effective and make so much sense, The oil industry can no longer afford rape the earth for an increasingly difficult to find and harvest resource.

here's some promising leads...

Turning CO2 and Methane (greenhouse gasses) into liquid fuels which can be used in all existing vehicles and supplied by existing infrastructure: http://www.smartplanet.com/business...tech-were-turning-pollution-into-energy/8629/

Turning Piss into clean water and free electricity: http://www.suite101.com/content/urine-could-be-used-to-create-green-electricity-a276321

Solar power from a paint job: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=cheap-solar-paint-takes-a-giant-ste-2010-04

The irrefutable evidence of Man Made Global Warming.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/Emp...erprints-of-anthropogenic-global-warming.html

http://www.skepticalscience.com/Quantifying-the-human-contribution-to-global-warming.html

NOTHING will replace oil...only a fool would think otherwise. MAYBE the sun if we can get our efficiency WAY up. Oil is liquid energy...and the basis of just about everything manufactured. We extract millions and millions of barrels each day...WHAT do you suppose we replace it with? You think alcohol will replace motor fuel? What are we going to come up with that will replace millions of barrels? How are you going to supply the energy to make it? What are you going to make it with?

The ONLY...SUSTAINABLE...thing we could possibly use to replace gasoline in vehicles...would be something done to WATER to make it burn like gasoline. Water is the next big liquid that we can take from the planet instead of oil. Anything else takes a whole lot of energy to turn into a liquid state.

No...a planet with billions of people isn't sustainable without lots and lots of oil. I'm sorry, I'm not ready to give all this up.

Solar and nukes is our only hope for electric power...and we don't have ANYTHING to replace gas in cars. Sure, biodiesel is good for 1% of the vehicles...and then you run out of used veg oil. Solar is good if you have sun 99% of the time...who does? Everythig else takes more energy to make than you'll EVER save. Battery cars? Are you kidding? The batteries are an ecological nightmare...just wait until all those hybrid batteries need replacing.

There are no "easy" answers.

 

[sac beh]

Actually, I think it's ME with the firmer grip on reality...

Just what I thought...bullshit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy
Central/South America is NOT at the top of the life expectancy list...in fact, ONLY Guatamala is above the US...the rest are below. And besides, we all know "who" brings down ALL the stats for the US...I'll give you a hint...it starts out with the letters "minorit... THEY, when added to "our" stats, bring them way down.

You still haven't read the studies I linked to to support my point have you?
http://www.happyplanetindex.org/public-data/files/happy-planet-index-2-0.pdf
The study combines the 3 data--life expectancy, life satisfaction, environmental footprint--to rank countries. Get it? So while the US has a slighter higher life expectancy than some, the life satisfaction measured is moderate, and its environmental footprint is so off the charts that it moves to the bottom of the list. I'm not talking about Africa, never was. You're obsessed with Africa because you're obsessed with mis-informed, racially-motivated stereotypes of world demographics. You won't convince anybody of these ideas by changing the parameters of discussion like a slight-of-hand magician who slips in Africa in place of Latin America, in order that the discussion of Latin America comes out in his favor.

I beg you, don't respond again to me unless you've read the studies I'm referencing and can develop an informed response to them. Again: Costa Rica, Jamaica, Dominican Republic and Guatemala are the top 4 countries in the world in a study that combined the measurements above.

The minorities you attempt to blame come from these countries. This data, as well as others provided, threaten your whole racist world view. Yes, racist: making blanket statements about races or colors of people without any evidence, believing your own race to be inherently superior, slandering whole groups of people in opposition to the evidence as a way to deal with some trauma that you've perhaps experienced, concocting race-based divisions between "us" and "them" in order to have some enemy to blame for your own personal failures and fears.

This is IC mag, man. Its an international community. There are many non-white people, minorities, people of lower economic class than you who are members here. I'm certain that the testimony of many of them would completely shatter your beliefs. I can tolerate someone challenging the ideas in this thread about Climate Change with data and research, but you're not even on topic. You are over the top in your disrespect for the community at large. Its the one rare case where I would encourage the Mods to take action. And leave us to discuss solutions.

 

[Justin_Credible]

Has anyone brought this up? I don't know, I think that good ol' George had it correct back in 1917.
Farmers would be the substance of our country...we could all be rich and there would be world peace...grow hemp, make oil from it...it has been proven that it could work,....no? Just a J.C. fantasy?


A decorticator (from Latin: cortex, bark) is a machine for stripping the skin, bark, or rind off nuts, wood, plant stalks, grain, etc, in preparation for further processing.

Quoted from Hemp - American History Revisited by Robert Deitch copyright 2003 Algora Publishing:
“ ... because of the 1917 introduction of a machine designed by George Schlichten, known as the "Decorticator." The Decorticator separated the long hemp fibers from the pulpy celluloid (hurds) center of the hemp stalks, dramatically reducing the exorbitant labor costs associated with cleaning and preparing hemp for further processing.

http://www.answers.com/topic/decorticator

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

poor ibjammin'

you should probably give it up sac... some people are simply not going to broaden their limited understanding, and are incapable of rising above their prejudices.


nationalism and racism are diseases, and ibjammin is obviously infected.

Anymore political and racial hatered get's spewed in this thread and I'm reporting it.


any asshat who thinks there is no other viable energy source than oil, and who thinks minorities are to blame for all the world's ills, is too confused for me to even bother engaging in conversation and most likely lacks the critical thinking skills to sort out any truth shown to them.

 

[guest456mpy]

The ocean's tides move with great force and with great regularities.

Why haven't they been harvested for energy?

In Indiana there are wind farms for electrical generation.

We've only hit the tip of the iceberg in terms of renewable energy sources, but since there is no motivation for "Big Oil" there is great resistance in their practical application. Their lobbyists will continue to influence law makers by lining their pockets to pass laws that are clearly in their favor.

H.G.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

You still haven't read the studies I linked to to support my point have you?
http://www.happyplanetindex.org/public-data/files/happy-planet-index-2-0.pdf
The study combines the 3 data--life expectancy, life satisfaction, environmental footprint--to rank countries. Get it? So while the US has a slighter higher life expectancy than some, the life satisfaction measured is moderate, and its environmental footprint is so off the charts that it moves to the bottom of the list. I'm not talking about Africa, never was. You're obsessed with Africa because you're obsessed with mis-informed, racially-motivated stereotypes of world demographics. You won't convince anybody of these ideas by changing the parameters of discussion like a slight-of-hand magician who slips in Africa in place of Latin America, in order that the discussion of Latin America comes out in his favor.

I beg you, don't respond again to me unless you've read the studies I'm referencing and can develop an informed response to them. Again: Costa Rica, Jamaica, Dominican Republic and Guatemala are the top 4 countries in the world in a study that combined the measurements above.

The minorities you attempt to blame come from these countries. This data, as well as others provided, threaten your whole racist world view. Yes, racist: making blanket statements about races or colors of people without any evidence, believing your own race to be inherently superior, slandering whole groups of people in opposition to the evidence as a way to deal with some trauma that you've perhaps experienced, concocting race-based divisions between "us" and "them" in order to have some enemy to blame for your own personal failures and fears.

This is IC mag, man. Its an international community. There are many non-white people, minorities, people of lower economic class than you who are members here. I'm certain that the testimony of many of them would completely shatter your beliefs. I can tolerate someone challenging the ideas in this thread about Climate Change with data and research, but you're not even on topic. You are over the top in your disrespect for the community at large. Its the one rare case where I would encourage the Mods to take action. And leave us to discuss solutions.

Exactly. we're here to discuss solutions to an obvious and irrefutable situation... This thread, and indeed this entire forum, is the wrong place to preach nationalism and racial superiority. I agree, the mods need to clean up ibjammin's nazi bullshit.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

The ocean's tides move with great force and with great regularities.

Why haven't they been harvested for energy?

In Indiana there are wind farms for electrical generation.

We've only hit the tip of the iceberg in terms of renewable energy sources, but since there is no motivation for "Big Oil" there is great resistance in their practical application. Their lobbyists will continue to influence law makers by lining their pockets to pass laws that are clearly in their favor.

H.G.

Maine is using the ocean.
http://www.electricnet.com/article.mvc/Largest-Ocean-Energy-Device-Ever-Installed-0001?VNETCOOKIE=NO

 

[ibjamming]

You still haven't read the studies I linked to to support my point have you?
http://www.happyplanetindex.org/public-data/files/happy-planet-index-2-0.pdf
The study combines the 3 data--life expectancy, life satisfaction, environmental footprint--to rank countries. Get it? So while the US has a slighter higher life expectancy than some, the life satisfaction measured is moderate, and its environmental footprint is so off the charts that it moves to the bottom of the list. I'm not talking about Africa, never was. You're obsessed with Africa because you're obsessed with mis-informed, racially-motivated stereotypes of world demographics. You won't convince anybody of these ideas by changing the parameters of discussion like a slight-of-hand magician who slips in Africa in place of Latin America, in order that the discussion of Latin America comes out in his favor.

I beg you, don't respond again to me unless you've read the studies I'm referencing and can develop an informed response to them. Again: Costa Rica, Jamaica, Dominican Republic and Guatemala are the top 4 countries in the world in a study that combined the measurements above.

The minorities you attempt to blame come from these countries. This data, as well as others provided, threaten your whole racist world view. Yes, racist: making blanket statements about races or colors of people without any evidence, believing your own race to be inherently superior, slandering whole groups of people in opposition to the evidence as a way to deal with some trauma that you've perhaps experienced, concocting race-based divisions between "us" and "them" in order to have some enemy to blame for your own personal failures and fears.

This is IC mag, man. Its an international community. There are many non-white people, minorities, people of lower economic class than you who are members here. I'm certain that the testimony of many of them would completely shatter your beliefs. I can tolerate someone challenging the ideas in this thread about Climate Change with data and research, but you're not even on topic. You are over the top in your disrespect for the community at large. Its the one rare case where I would encourage the Mods to take action. And leave us to discuss solutions.

Listen...I don't give a damn about "your" studies...I can always find a study or two to support "my" side...to support ANY side...let's be honest...OK?

And speaking of being "honest"...I noticed you have Jamaica listed in your top 4 of "wonderful places to emulate"... I can't take seriously ANYTHING you HAVE or WILL say after seeing that!

JAMAICA!?!?!?!? Jamaica is your SHINING EXAMPLE of the utopia you seek?!?!?

FUCK THAT...I'll say it even louder...FUCK THAT!

I've been to Jamaica sister...it's the absolutely LAST place I'd EVER want to be! (My opinion of course, no offense to Jamaicans)

So yes...we ARE done here...you have nothing else of interest to say to me. You want EVERYONE living 3rd world... Good luck with that!

Why don't just you guys who want to live that way, go ahead and leave...that will cut down on our population and we can keep going like we are...OK?

You can start your move to "3rd worldom" with your internet connection...bye!

I am discussing solutions...my solution is cut aid and that will cut the population making everything sustainable. White people ONLY came up because we don't have enough children to keep our numbers where they are and minorities have like 7 kids each, growing the population exponentially, and you assert that white people are "responsible" for this "mess".

How can I talk about solutions when I'm accused of "You are over the top in your disrespect for the community at large." If I believe they are part of the problem...how can I say what I think if I can't mention them? OK...you can't say anything negative about white people...or the western culture. Where does that leave you? Where does that leave me?

I'm "Getting disrespected" by YOU...you want to change my way of life...right? Why can't I ask THEM to change their ways? No more kids. So far, "my" ways have given "us" quite a bit more than "their ways" have helped anyone...right? I'm white...I'm supposed to take abuse? Your whole premise is disrespectful towards whites...it's our industrial complex you want destroyed...the Bourgeoisie...the ones who innovate and gave you that computer you're using to chastise them. So, in essence...you want my world destroyed and replaced by that of the blacks/browns...right? Well I say no! And, I just may make you feel bad along the way defending my thoughts.

Why can't we be honest? Why do we gloss over the truth? If everyone could hear the truth instead of this constant political correctness that leads to more of the same...we'd be so much better off. We could learn to capitalize on people's differences instead of always forcing square pegs into round holes and slowly bringing us down to 2nd world levels.

Your solution is impoverish the west...good luck with that.

Anyone have anything else? A way to "burn water" perhaps? A solar powered machine that can "custom make molecules"? Because that's the ONLY way you're going to ECONOMICALLY get away for oil. And the carbon it produces. Everything else will be a boutique business, not main stream. Alcohol is out. Recycled veg products are out. Solar won't work because it take way more energy to make than it produces. Wind is too confined in area where it can be used. No more hydroelectric...maybe nukes too...environmentalists say no. What IS there...seriously...