J
JackTheGrower
There is no doubt that the impact will be huge for the World.
You are missing the point here (intentionally perhaps?). What I am saying is that for most of the voters in the red portions of California, and for a whole generation of voters (my mother for instance, because she knew how much it would have helped her sister-in-law to have had access to mj when undergoing chemo), the intent was to help the people specified in those first six words. It has done it's job in helping to get mj more socially acceptable, and now people who arguably have no real reason to have access to mmj are saying that they will vote no on 19. I think it's bullshit.
JacktheGrower and kmk420kali, you seem to overlook the fact that if 19 were passed, the smell of cannabis could no longer be used as cause for a search. Can you tell the difference between an ounce and a pound by smell alone? Nope. KB would've been on his way after getting a ticket for a brake light out, and nothing more.
You should read the Bill. Cities have no say regarding personal use within someones home or growing for personal use.
They only have say regarding the commercial issues.
7. Ensure that if a city decides not to tax and regulate the sale of cannabis, that buying and selling cannabis within that city’s limits remain illegal, but that the city’s citizens still have the right to possess and consume small amounts, except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9. 8.
Are you in the MM Business?
Ok brainiack, I understand nobody likes taxes, but you are not seeing the big picture. I could make an example of each, but lets use gas since that is a hot button for all of us. Gas taxes are meant to tax the big corporations right along with the consumer! Yes, it even taxes them more than us! Sure most of us drive to work and for whatever... you know, like to downtown Hazzard to sell drugs to kids. Ha! Anyways, we all pay a little bit of that but the ones who are paying through the nose are the corporations that have to ship things. Rail, plane, truck, it all gets hit with gas tax. Every item we buy from food to TVs gets shipped and prices go up because of the gas tax. Oh, but wait... did the price of electronics, or computers, or furniture or any other big items spike when the gas taxes got out of control? Lumber, drywall and building materials did but what happened to that market? People tried to maintain their profit structure and people stopped building new homes. That is a fact and with the exception of a few areas that had other reasons for growth, this was a nation wide phenomena. Lets go back to the typical items though like furniture and tvs and computers and typical retail items. They tried to raise prices but nobody bought anything, they dropped prices and are surviving. Ultimately, the bulk of the day to day items that we buy have not increased in price from the gas tax hikes and it is the big manufacturing corporations and the retailers who have taken the hit. This isn't anything that is good for the corporations. It effects us all equally.I am against the tax structure set up in California and am against any bill that raises taxes on Californians. Alcohol, overtaxed. Gasoline, overtaxed. Automobiles, overtaxed. Taxes and regulations, too many and getting worse. So yes, I am against all these taxes, not the products. Our tax system is set up to take wealth from the worker and transfer it to the corporate owners. Land is the only thing a "free market" needs to tax to level the playing field for all participants in the system.
No but you can possess as much weed as you want, you just can't transport any more than an ounce under 19. But either way, yeah a case or a bottle is plenty for me! If I'm having a party I will certainly get more, but lets make a realistic comparison for that party. Lets just assume for a minute that everyone who wants to drink wants to get drunk and everyone who wants to smoke wants to get stoned. I think we all know that drinking is a little bit different in that regard than smoking, but lets just assume for Cootie. There are many different levels of tolerance for either, but if we make it an average, lets say that to get drunk an average person would need 6 drinks and to get stoned an average person would need about a quarter of a gram. Based on that, each gram of herb is equal to about 24 fl oz of liquor, or a case of beer. We all know that weed wears off faster so lets say you need to smoke up 2 times during the party and we can say that a gram of weed is equal to 12 fl oz booze. A zip of herb is 28.5 grams x 12 = 342 fl oz of 80 proof booze or 342 beers. So your ounce of weed, that is a such an unfair amount to carry with you, is equivalent to not a case of beer or bottle of whiskey but over 10 bottles of whiskey (33 fl oz per liter) or over 14 cases of beer. So yeah, it is a little unrealistic to go buy 10 bottles of booze or 14 cases of beer! However, none of my math is relevant since there is no illegal market for beer and booze so why would anyone care. Weed is different in that regard.Do you only get a bottle of whiskey or a case of beer to possess for personal consumption? Why only an ounce under 19?
"Mom and Pop" growers... man you make them all sound so friendly! Little old lady and her husband with drawn in cheeks holding a pitchfork in front of the aged family farm... How about thugs with machine guns guarding their crops? you got them in Hazzerd to don't ya? How about people running their grow by bypassing electric meters? How about plots on State forest land? How about damming up streams to water crops... give me a fucking break with the mom and pop shit! Sure some, but not all. I'm not accusing anyone personally of these things, but it happens and we all know it. This industry needs to be regulated so it isn't a draw on economy, resources, law enforcement and everything else. Such a pretty wholesome picture you paint... Then of course there is the fact that these people aren't paying income tax. Some are surely accepting welfare in some form or fashion claiming they don't have a job. Yup it is greed mixed with lack of compliance plain and simple. Go legit if the opportunity arises."If all you care is about profits for growers, then vote NO, and screw Cannabis ever being normalized, money is much more important."
Who are these growers and where will the profits go? Mom and pop's profits will still be made, only now by big business with a government tax of approval. These profits will now leave many "greedy" growers in poverty and will no longer stay in the community of the "greedy" growers. Corporations with big budgets for lobbying will help pass legislation in the various municipalities that are prohibitive to small cannabis growers.
Nobody is saying the government in the country or any state is looking out for just the interest of the people, but the people are at least watching and demanding some of it. Corporate greed certainly runs this country. I agree with a lot of what you are saying Cooter, but you aren't fixing anything. you are saying "The government is screwing the people so I screw them!" Great for you but in the process you screw everyone else. You aren't taking a nickle out of the hands of the government because everyone else is covering your ass. You aren't changing unfair laws, yuo are inspiring them to create more unfair laws. Your actions and attitudes aren't helping things one bit for the people. Only for you Cooter... that is greed. You are inspiring oppression by being the naughty kid in class who had to put gum under the desk and pretty soon nobody gets to chew gum.Money is more important than legalization, at least to the government you are asking to stop oppressing you.
The reason I ever responded to this post originally is that someone postulated that the only reason someone on this board could be against 19 is that they are "greedy" growers that are working with leo to have fellow cannabis users thrown in jail to make more money. I disagree on several points but they have all been thoroughly debunked.
It is a balanced proposal that is geared to appeal to as many people as possible. Not perfect but acceptable to the masses. That is the biggest reason it is even on the ballot.1. This law is too restrictive.
Debunked- It is better than nothing.
People "working" in the illegal Cannabis market will have an opportunity to get legal work. There will be many jobs as a result of this, but if you want to be the big dick on the cannabis farm, or if you don't want to pay taxes like the rest of the world, then yeah... it is going to be a tougher road.2. This law will transfer wealth from California workers to corporate scum.
Debunked- That what happens. Adapt.
3. The law is so vague nobody really knows what will happen.
Debunked- "I see it as the new Disneyland for stoners. Imagine ..."
Sweet! so you don't vote? Perfect!!I am a no voter, meaning I don't support the fascists by showing up at the polls so their schemes can be validated by the majority of the indoctrinated voters. It is possible that there are other valid viewpoints besides let's jump in bed with the people currently oppressing us. Calling the growers "greedy" because they have been successful at overgrowing the government the last 50 years is childish to say the least.
Are you saying that you are fueling the movement? I'm confused on that one. If you mean by "movement" that you make all the money, and screw the people and the taxes they pay on your behalf... then OK... your fueling the movement!It appears that most on this thread cannot even comprehend other points of view without bias, bigotry, and attacks against the other side for having a different opinion. Most posters in the "yes" category are acting quite possessed with the political spirit of "morality" and being "right" on their side. Scary what people will do when they "know" they are "right" and state sponsored programming takes over to fill their "moral" void.
Calling the people that are fueling this movement greedy because of concerns too complex for the twenty something year old stoners to comprehend is a political move to garner support for a shitty law.
they do have a say whether or not they want to tax/regulate or it.
"if your city decides not to tax cannabis, then buying and selling marijuana in the city limits would remain illegal. You would be permitted to possess and consume marijuana, but you would be required to travel to another city that taxes cannabis to buy it.
This is a move towards decreased access, not increased access. And since the initiative is so ambiguous that cities are destined to be tied up in a legal quagmire over how to interpret it, many local governments might find it simpler just to opt-out and send its citizens elsewhere. Indeed, 129 cities did just that with medical marijuana, banning it outright, while still others have established moratoriums against dispensaries. In fact, of the entire state, only the city of Oakland has endorsed the initiative. A vote for the initiative will therefore not ensure local access to purchase marijuana legally."
This is what your gonna have in 90% of Calif cities.Just like we have now my friends!
(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, it is lawful and shall not be a public offense under California law for any person 21 years of age or older to:
(i) Personally possess, process, share, or transport not more than one ounce of cannabis, solely for that individual’s personal consumption, and not for sale.
(ii) Cultivate, on private property by the owner, lawful occupant, or other lawful resident or guest of the private property owner or lawful occupant, cannabis plants for personal consumption only, in an area of not more than twenty-five square feet per private residence or, in the absence of any residence, the parcel. Cultivation on leased or rented property may be subject to approval from the owner of the property. Provided that, nothing in this section shall permit unlawful or unlicensed cultivation of cannabis on any public lands.
(iii) Possess on the premises where grown the living and harvested plants and results of any harvest and processing of plants lawfully cultivated pursuant to section 11300(a)(ii), for personal consumption.
7. Ensure that if a city decides not to tax and regulate the sale of cannabis, that buying and selling cannabis within that city’s limits remain illegal, but that the city’s citizens still have the right to possess and consume small amounts, except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9.
I haven't heard a peep from the other cities on this. And I thought I read your 5 x 5 can only run 3-6 plants? Most cities quit frankly just don't want to deal with it.
Folks are blowin it hard!! Like was just said, Write a good bill and address all the loose ends in the "Prop 19's Cartel" Bill!
R.Lee is banking mad loot that is not within the spirit of prop 215.
He is also selling 1000's of clones to multiple collectives on a daily bases.
Again complete disregard for 215. You are not allowed to service multiple collectives.
your allowed to collectively garden for your collective membership.
Collectives cannot have Collectives as members.
I dont really care what any of you say really. I know the numbers, I know what Oakdam pays in city/state tax's roughly, I know Oaksterdamn's daily average's and patient count. believe me when I say he makes , I take that back, He clears more in a week then most of you will every earn in a year.
6 figures a wk fella's.
Just cause he aint "Ball'n with Ho's at da club" dont make it right. He puts it back into the "Prop 19 Cartels Monopoly Pursuit Fund!"
In a minute with his Mega Garden those numbers will quadrupole.
And I dont want to hear all the bitching and moaning next yr this time.
At the end of the day the dude that funded the bill is crooked as phuk!
I dont trust RL! no way no how!
I am against the tax structure set up in California and am against any bill that raises taxes on Californians. Alcohol, overtaxed. Gasoline, overtaxed. Automobiles, overtaxed. Taxes and regulations, too many and getting worse. So yes, I am against all these taxes, not the products. Our tax system is set up to take wealth from the worker and transfer it to the corporate owners. Land is the only thing a "free market" needs to tax to level the playing field for all participants in the system.
Who are these growers and where will the profits go? Mom and pop's profits will still be made, only now by big business with a government tax of approval. These profits will now leave many "greedy" growers in poverty and will no longer stay in the community of the "greedy" growers. Corporations with big budgets for lobbying will help pass legislation in the various municipalities that are prohibitive to small cannabis growers.
Money is more important than legalization, at least to the government you are asking to stop oppressing you.
I am a no voter, meaning I don't support the fascists by showing up at the polls so their schemes can be validated by the majority of the indoctrinated voters. It is possible that there are other valid viewpoints besides let's jump in bed with the people currently oppressing us. Calling the growers "greedy" because they have been successful at overgrowing the government the last 50 years is childish to say the least.
Calling the people that are fueling this movement greedy because of concerns too complex for the twenty something year old stoners to comprehend is a political move to garner support for a shitty law.
That is too bad...that means the gov has more control than the Dr.
So now a Dr. who would recommend cannabis for an unlisted condition cannot. Bummer.
i thought i read the minimum was 250 sq'?
i thought i read this prop also mandates any man can demand a blowjob from any woman in california and she must comply to completion.
see how that works?
and then we got this douchebag nazi!
so your haterisim of some other dude lets you suspend reasonable disbelief to the point you think one man can lock down the entire cali scene from 2 grows in oakland?
No haterism, Heck Im the only guy in So Cal thats allowed to build a room addition. Just me Bro! I give a portion of my sales to the head of the City Building Dept, and the Head Inspector is my fishing buddy. I make sure that other Contractors dont get no play. And if something is brewing, The City Chief and the Inspector call me on the phone and give me the inside scoop.
Other Contractors are pissed but phuk'm, This is America and Capitalism runs the world.
And its not 2 grows in Oakland dude, you hear what you want.
He's got Oakland, He's Got San Jose, He's now down in L.A/L.B selling 1000 of clones illegally and not within the spirit of 215.
The only Police Chief, or Ex police chief endorsing this is bill is Mcnamara, San Jose, , I just find it coincidental that RL has a Mega Collective in San Jose, LMFAO!
The Democrats will do almost anything to gain some ground.
sidenote:
I don't grow commercial, I dont sell to a collective, I don't sell to anyone. I build out Collectives and Garden Facility's.
I'm on the pick and shovel end of this. While the Faux Gold Rush in Cali is going on and people are trying to strike it rich, Ill be the guy with the pans/shovel you all need. Im the guy you call when you want a 1-50 light garden and you want it Calif Compliant/Code Compliant and Insured by Statewide Insurance.
The best Pro Prop19ers can do is promise us True Freedom people they won't get lazy after Prop 19 is vote on.
Promise us we have you and the support of this site to promote a better Initiative in 2012.. That is all I ask.
WTF is this, LMAO.
I have friends in So Cal that build additions for a living so I don't know what you're talking about.
Think the head of the City Building Dept laughs when you give him kickbacks?
sidenote:
I don't grow commercial, I dont sell to a collective, I don't sell to anyone. I build out Collectives and Garden Facility's.
I'm on the pick and shovel end of this. While the Faux Gold Rush in Cali is going on and people are trying to strike it rich, Ill be the guy with the pans/shovel you all need. Im the guy you call when you want a 1-50 light garden and you want it Calif Compliant/Code Compliant and Insured by Statewide Insurance.
this leads me to ask a question.... after prop 19 passes and i want to set up my 25 square feet indoor. must i pay someone from the city, county, and or state to come and inspect my grow site to make sure it complies with all codes and safety regulations?
peace
this leads me to ask a question.... after prop 19 passes and i want to set up my 25 square feet indoor. must i pay someone from the city, county, and or state to come and inspect my grow site to make sure it complies with all codes and safety regulations?
peace
I support the complete deregulation and legalization of Cannabis in any form.
I will vote for anything that gets us a step closer to it.
I will also argue to convince others not to rest on their laurels.
I promise.