ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

[Smoke Buddy]

have you provided a single link to back any of your bullshit?

the only one ive seen is one you quoted and the first paragraph in said link proves you wrong concerning what protections are afforded you by a rec alone.

I was responding to his statements that mmj patients are not for hemp. I dont need to show you a link to refute that stupid statement. Are you even paying attention or just on the attack again?

Links? We ain't got no links. We don't need no links! I don't have to show you any stinkin' links.

LOL

 

[dagnabit]

For one thing there is no debate here in California about the scam aspect. Most people accept that cannabis is fine and they accept that mmj is a channel that is working. ITS IN NO DANGER OF BEING REPEALED, although a lot of you sound like you would like to. I have never seen this much anti mmj as right here, right now. . The general concensus is indeed that its a loophole, scam, whatever you want to call it. So What? Use the loophole, thats what its for. I call it the law of the people. Its a done deal. MMJ IS GOOD!!! Many other states have come along since we made mmj real. They barent demonizing it like you are, in fact more states wiil be getting mmj Im sure. Its growing.
Im not giving mmj a bad name as I am a legitimate hardcore patient not being treated for something small, but for a real disease. My comments about what might be legitamate mmj uses are just comments, not about me. So Im the bad guy huh? I dont get that logic at all.

did you even read ?
"i agree all use is medicinal"
"im not saying its correct they view it that way...
but we live in a world dominated not by reality but by perceived reality.
remember the huddled sheepole believed reefer madness for a loooong time."

how do you martyr yourself as the "bad guy"

im all for 215 in case you have not noticed...
i just dont like having to pay extortion to the government and put myself on their database for what should be my business in my home.

19 allows me to grow my own smoke in my own home in a MINIMUM[b/] 25sq' area without having to do shit but plant it.

i understand you are scared of loosing your home...but in reality how will you loose your home if 19 passes?

 

[dagnabit]

Links? We ain't got no links. We don't need no links! I don't have to show you any stinkin' links.

supposition over evidence...

and im getting "ripped up"

sure lmao...

tell me again how you have all the same protections with a rec?

Question: I already have a card from my physician and another from a dispensary. Why would I want another card?

MPP Answer: The state-issued ID cards provide near-guaranteed protection from arrest by state and local law enforcement officials for limited amounts of marijuana, and other ID cards do not.

 

[CrazyCooter]

not a jab..

just is what it is...

it seems like you dont want to see or hear anything that is contrary to your preconceived notions.

maybe im wrong...

They are not preconceived. It has taken a lifetime of looking at all the poverty and despair amongst the greatest period of wealth in the world. I just would like to see facts, not speculation when it comes to believing people with a political agenda.

The problem with the ideas contrary to mine regarding this issue are many. Mostly it is the childish manner with which the some people who are "right" use to push their agenda. Mostly speculation with the inability to understand the other side of the argument and then ended with some name calling. The conclusions most people are basing their arguments on cannot be proven and are formulated in their mind because the wording of 19 is so vague.

If you can cut through all the morality and legality you will end up with a transfer of wealth from the individual California taxpayer to the state and corporations, fascists. I am against this.

 

[Smoke Buddy]

did you even read ?
"i agree all use is medicinal"
"im not saying its correct they view it that way...
but we live in a world dominated not by reality but by perceived reality.
remember the huddled sheepole believed reefer madness for a loooong time."

how do you martyr yourself as the "bad guy"

im all for 215 in case you have not noticed...
i just dont like having to pay extortion to the government and put myself on their database for what should be my business in my home.

19 allows me to grow my own smoke in my own home in a MINIMUM[b/] 25sq' area without having to do shit but plant it.

i understand you are scared of loosing your home...but in reality how will you loose your home if 19 passes?

Yeah, I saw you believe all use is medicinal. That should be a clue as to the easiest and most legit way to get people free from harrassment while keeping the man out of your business.
YOU called me the bad guy, not me, I just refuted your comment...
I payed the doctor for the rec, not the government. Extortion is what you want the government to do at the rate of 50/oz.
Im not in their database unless I do what you adviocate which is get a state card. My rec is private between me and my doctor and any club I join, government isnt in the loop. Jeez I explained all this to you yesterday yet you just continue to spread untruths. Why are you even commenting if you dont even have a grasp of the basics of the issue or the true situation here now, You keep making stuff up.

 

[dagnabit]

If you can cut through all the morality and legality you will end up with a transfer of wealth from the individual California taxpayer to the state and corporations, fascists. I am against this.

how does allowing me to produce my own reefer in my own home transfer wealth to the united cali socialist republic exactly?

that is where you guys fail to see our side..

the taxes imposed by 19 are entirely voluntary!!!!!

don't buy it dont pay tax....

a voluntary consumption tax is no usurpation of your rights or a transfer of wealth!

215 is the usurpation! it shifts the burden of proof from the state to the individual. it causes you to pay extortion money to the U.C.S.R. for "protection" from harassment false arrest and outing in the local media!

how does a libertarian support 215?

i dont want to register my dog,guns,grow, or anything else i do in my own home!
and i sure as fuck dont want to have to put myself on a database admitting to a federal felony to recieve the "full protection" of the state law!

sounds pretty "fascist" dont it

 

[Smoke Buddy]

supposition over evidence...

and im getting "ripped up"

sure lmao...

tell me again how you have all the same protections with a rec?

Its a choice. If you had been paying attention you would ave heard that the only thing it may help with is getting the cop to let you pass with your lbs when making deliveries. As far as the courts go, the state card offers no further protection. We're simply talking about the convenience of not having to prove you are legal in court if you happen to get an asshole cop that wont accept your rec. Legally speaking its no different period. I have all the same rights in a court of law. So, nope, its still the same answer, I dont need a state card at all and if I get one I would be in a "state protected" database which I am NOT in now. Get it?

 

[dagnabit]

Yeah, I saw you believe all use is medicinal. That should be a clue as to the easiest and most legit way to get people free from harrassment while keeping the man out of your business.
YOU called me the bad guy, not me, I just refuted your comment...
I payed the doctor for the rec, not the government. Extortion is what you want the government to do at the rate of 50/oz.
Im not in their database unless I do what you adviocate which is get a state card. My rec is private between me and my doctor and any club I join, government isnt in the loop. Jeez I explained all this to you yesterday yet you just continue to spread untruths. Why are you even commenting if you dont even have a grasp of the basics of the issue or the true situation here now, You keep making stuff up.

"Question: I already have a card from my physician and another from a dispensary. Why would I want another card?

MPP Answer: The state-issued ID cards provide near-guaranteed protection from arrest by state and local law enforcement officials for limited amounts of marijuana, and other ID cards do not."


http://www.mpp.org/states/california/frequently-asked-questions.html


if you choose to remain ignorant of the truth there is no help for you.


your rec does not protect you from arrest

even you admitted that in this thread.
why do you continue to argue something you admitted to and ive provided proof of?

ive provided EVIDENCE you provide stomping your foot and saying uh uh...

until you can back your erroneous claim with some hard evidence.....
your attempts at discrediting me,the california AG and the MPP will be taken for what they are pure poppycock.

 

[rives]

I think that it is pretty funny that the people who made the following quotes all base their argument on the line in 215 that says "or any other illness for which marijuana provides relief" and completely ignore the first part of the sentence which says "To ensure that seriously ill Californians....." Yes, 215 was a powerful tool that got us to this point. It is now time to seize the opportunity to add to it with 19. Get over the self-justification of how you prefer to support yourselves and do something for the rest of the people.

And please dont tell me that people intelligent enough to vote did not understand what this would be used for: or any other illness for which marijuana provides relief.
Dont pretend this meant something like "ONLY SERIOUS ILLNESSES". It doesn't. Never did. Its very clear to anyone who doesnt have their head stuck in the sand.

Whoops, looks like BBB completely missed the point.

LOL... Its funny that people here are calling med patients unethical for taking advantage of a law that was written in order to make self medication legal. Most folks I know that use cannabis use it to mello out after a long day, much like people do with adult beverages.
peace

People that need to mellow out are seriously ill?

most people benefit from cannabis. Thats why we have 215. Are you saying you are a purely recreational user and have no legitamate relief from anything when you self medicate... you know, when you smoke alone... for no other reason than to escape whatever that little thing is that bugs you or causes you pain or stress? Being stressed out causes disease. Cannabis prevents disease by destressing. That alone is HUGE!
Is 215 creative? YES! Does it help the little guy? YES! Is it the only way we could get it legalized at the time we passed it? YES!

Or those that have little things that bug them?

 

[dagnabit]

Its a choice. If you had been paying attention you would ave heard that the only thing it may help with is getting the cop to let you pass with your lbs when making deliveries. As far as the courts go, the state card offers no further protection. We're simply talking about the convenience of not having to prove you are legal in court if you happen to get an asshole cop that wont accept your rec. Legally speaking its no different period. I have all the same rights in a court of law. So, nope, its still the same answer, I dont need a state card at all and if I get one I would be in a "state protected" database which I am NOT in now. Get it?

you dont have to have a rec.
you dont "have" to wear pants.
you dont "have" to do shit but stay(whatever color you are) and die
4if you want protection from harrasment,arrest,search,seizure,legal fees,bail fees,tazering,shot dogs,handcuffed,dragged from your home,name in the paper and outed in the community as a user you will register.
a state card protects you from this.

of course your argument is for 19 passing.
if your telling me 215 will not protect you from these things?

but i guess you are willing to be subject to the aforementioned violations as long as you can keep that dollar going?

how will 19 make you and the "legion" hanging on by a thread from making it?

if i give you a $15 an hour job with benefits today will you become a supporter?

 

[Smoke Buddy]

^^ Im saying the same thing your link says, dont you realize that? LOL

MPP Answer: The state-issued ID cards provide near-guaranteed protection from arrest by state and local law enforcement officials for limited amounts of marijuana, and other ID cards do not."

Ill try to help you get it one more time only. You need to slow down and open up your mind. This quoted "answer" ^^^ is conjecture, not practice if you didnt realize that. Its all about what a leo on the street may or may not accept. I personally know of several people who have been stopped, searched, discover they had small amount, showed their rec and were released witrh "have a nice day". I dont know anyone that has shown a rec and still been ticketed or arrested. That happens all day long here everyday so you trying to paint some Orwellian picture of which card you have is not even on the radar or relevent in real life. On top of that I dont transport so I dont have that issue. Ive never even shown a leo my rec... why is that? because I fly way below the radar and dont put myself in those situations..
peace

I am pretty much done trying to edgemacate yas.

we are going in stupid little circles around a bunch of misconceptions. When Im up front and honest and try to actually engage, I get these little doggies nipping at my seam with irrelevent an incorrect assumptions and proclamations.

 

[zen_trikester]

i agree all use is medicinal the masses dont.
you are the example they point to...
i realize you dont give a fuck if you make the entire mmj scene look bad.
i know the law is written for you to take advantage of but why be ammunition for those who believe mmj is a scam?

the age of consent in some states is 16 does that make fucking a child ok?

Exactly! It is about how others see it, not about how those of us with direct knowledge see it. To be honest, as a person who is obviously all for prop 19 I have to say I would attempt to be a caregiver if that were an option in my state but it isn't. I would see it as a legal way to continue my hobby and an excuse to have weed on my person, and a great way for me tof help out friends who have serious medic al conditions like Parkinson or MS or back iknjuries. Not as a way to make a bunch of money and not as a way to legally consume. I wouldn't even charge them for product as long as their needs didn't require me to spend a bunch of money increasing the size of my op. I would never just get a rec although I certainly see why people do since that is currently the best option.

Actually, in my state we probably will never have mmj at all unless it is state provided through a pharmacy. Why? CA is used as the model. I would happily give away meds to a patient or two just for a legal excuse to cultivate, but because the way things are handled in CA that will probably never be an option. If the people of CA really thought that the mmj drive was so anyone with a hangnail could legally use and anyone with a spare bedroom could make an extra 50K a year tax free then why didn't they just write a legalization bill then? Maybe the people who originally wrote 215 thought that would all happen, but I'm sure many people who were in the majority vote that put the prop into law were not seeing as that. They feel duped.

What are you talking about? I said follow the law and be legal. You are acting like the doctor didn't say I have 2 weeks to live so I am not worthy of using cannabis to help my condition. I didn't make the law that makes it legal for me to possess, cultivate, consume, and share cannabis with other legal patients. I just follow it, and am therefore the scammer. The mockery is supporting fascist policies and believing they will bring you freedom.

do you really share Cooter or do you charge them through the friggin nose? How may patients do you have? Do you keep them in free meds or low cost meds since they are your excuse to grow and sell to the dispensaries? You should! you are riding on someone elses rec to make money, and then you come into a public forum like this to try to convince everyone who can read that prop 19 is not legalization and it is all about the fascist government and corporations blah blah blah. What makes you any less of a fascist? you are taking advantage of patients so you can make money right? you are attempting to stall the legalization bill that would take the power away from your regime? I don't see how you are any better than the people you hate so much. This is all about you and not about the compassionate care that MMJ is supposed to provide. You think you should be allowed to make tax free money while the average person pays your taxes for you. You feel you should be able to just go on with what you are doing and convince yourself that since there is a loophole you are free to use it and then bash the rest of the world in an effort to protect it. Dude you are a joke, and somehow in your mind you see what you are doing as the right thing because you can. That doesn't make it right. And stop saying that this prop isn't legality. Is it legality like being able to have a tomato plant in your yard? No, but it is legality like alcohol and that is the best comparison that can be made by the general public.

With this prop your employer, unless he is a criminal fascist like yourself, is unable to test your urine for marijuana use outside of work and fire you for it. There is no need to tell anyone that you grow unless you want to have a commercial sized garden, only then is it anyone's business. There is a very big possibility that this will bring scads of tourists and thousands of jobs to CA. There will be millions of business opertunities for people who have the courage and the brains to get them up and running. There will be a legal option to grow HEMP! These are huge things and if this isn't legalization, then what is? The tomato theory? We all know that will never happen, and as soon as someone claims that they are waiting for that kind of a prop, then you can know for sure that they don't want it legalized at all. That ship sailed in the 30s bud, everyone knows that.

Jed

 

[JJScorpio]

So people now say all use is medicinal? I asked a few friends why they smoke and they all said recreational. So now if I smoke it's medicinal, lol? What next?

Where do people come up with some of these things? Are cigarrettes medicinal? Is coffee medicinal?

 

[ReelBusy1]

history hath shown mankind are more disposed to suffer while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

Man is not disposed to suffer.

It just takes time for things to change when the greater forces of the rich and powerful try to control and marginalize the masses.

Time to go from the Dark Ages to the Enlightenment and the Renaissance.

Time to go from the Magna Carta to the Constitution.

Time to go from slavery to freedom.

Time to go from sweatshops and workhouses to unionized labor and a 40 hour work week.

All progress for man, citizenry, the masses happens slowly and incrementally.

Society's choose to go forward or go backward during this process. Prop 8 took away people's civil rights by popular vote.

Mankind has a hard time of it but they are always working to move forward.

Whether you are an iPhone factory worker in China organizing for a better life against aligned corporate and government interests or a cannabis rights activist trying to push forward the cause.

If you want to push forward and win we cannot let the haters, the uninformed, the greedy, the misinformed, the liars, the ignorant, the apathetic and the misguided sidetrack us from the real goals to end a failed public policy of cannabis prohibition that is wrecking society one family at a time and crushing our nation's economy.

It's Time to go from slavery to freedom again.

Vote Yes on Prop 19.

 

[dagnabit]

^^ Im saying the same thing your link says, dont you realize that? LOL



Ill try to help you get it one more time only. You need to slow down and open up your mind. This quoted "answer" ^^^ is conjecture, not practice if you didnt realize that. Its all about what a leo on the street may or may not accept. I personally know of several people who have been stopped, searched, discover they had small amount, showed their rec and were released witrh "have a nice day". I dont know anyone that has shown a rec and still been ticketed or arrested. That happens all day long here everyday so you trying to paint some Orwellian picture of which card you have is not even on the radar or relevent in real life. On top of that I dont transport so I dont have that issue. Ive never even shown a leo my rec... why is that? because I fly way below the radar and dont put myself in those situations..
peace

I am pretty much done trying to edgemacate yas.

we are going in stupid little circles around a bunch of misconceptions. When Im up front and honest and try to actually engage, I get these little doggies nipping at my seam with irrelevent an incorrect assumptions and proclamations.

prove me wrong with evidence?

or keep stomping that foot

 

[dagnabit]

Man is not disposed to suffer.

It just takes time for things to change when the greater forces of the rich and powerful try to control and marginalize the masses.

Time to go from the Dark Ages to the Enlightenment and the Renaissance.

Time to go from the Magna Carta to the Constitution.

Time to go from slavery to freedom.

Time to go from sweatshops and workhouses to unionized labor and a 40 hour work week.

All progress for man, citizenry, the masses happens slowly and incrementally.

Society's choose to go forward or go backward during this process. Prop 8 took away people's civil rights by popular vote.

Mankind has a hard time of it but they are always working to move forward.

Whether you are an iPhone factory worker in China organizing for a better life against aligned corporate and government interests or a cannabis rights activist trying to push forward the cause.

If you want to push forward and win we cannot let the haters, the uninformed, the greedy, the misinformed, the liars, the ignorant, the apathetic and the misguided sidetrack us from the real goals to end a failed public policy of cannabis prohibition that is wrecking society one family at a time and crushing our nation's economy.

It's Time to go from slavery to freedom again.

Vote Yes on Prop 19.

maybe i should finish the quote

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

 

[BigBudBill]

Dag....I have been stopped probably 6-7 times + P.O. came into my (micro)grow house. Rec shown, done deal. Now, the only time real weight was involved(more than OZ) was the grow and the PO so that has to be factored in.

BBB

 

[ReelBusy1]

My last comment for a bit as the garden is calling..
The people who want to live and die with your 215 rec fail to realize that card is also your Star of David that you are forced to wear to mark your place in your MMJ ghetto.

Your 215 rec can lose you your job, home and insurance and almost this year your driver's license if ever just arrested but not convicted.

You are second class citizens.
Street drunks have more rights than you do.

Don't settle for less.

 

[ReelBusy1]

maybe i should finish the quote

me and Tom Jefferson have always seen things eye to eye.
He's just a better writer.
.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

[1] On the sample of a 4473 I have (the 2008 revision), question 11e reads: "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana, or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?"

[2] Marijuana is a Schedule I controlled substance under 21 USC 812 . (See (c)(10) of Schedule I)

[3] There is no provision for the lawful prescription of Schedule 1 controlled substances (as there is for Schedule II, II, IV and V controlled substances) under 21 USC 829. It is unlawful to prescribe a Schedule I controlled substance and any purported prescription of a Schedule I controlled substance is invalid under federal law.

So a person who may be lawfully using marijuana under state law is still an unlawful user under federal law and therefore a prohibited person under 18 USC 922(g)(3). So possession of a gun by anyone who is a user of marijuana, even if legal under state law, commits a federal felony by possessing a gun.
i guess prop 19 wont protect gun owners from felonies when it comes to pot.


Legal gun + Legal pot = Federal Felony. Even in the state of California.

Prop 19 will do nothing to to give you guns and pot with a get out of jail card.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=318284&highlight=Prop19
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=318825&highlight=Prop19


fucking bullshit...we can get drunk and wave our guns around...but cant smoke a joint without being a felon.

i guess i commit felonies every day...