ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

[igrowone]

notice the LOL at the end and why dont you disagree with me, do you think that you'll spend less money when your taxed on every purchase over being fined on the rare occasion you get pulled over and the cop finds your stash?

ok, so that reply was posted with good intentions
as far as taxes go, that becomes a personal choice
like the people you see buying a fistful of lottery tickets, not too clever but let them help out with the government debt
i know this has been rehashed ad infinitum, but 215 exists on federal sufferance, it looks forever right now, but really?
the only permanent change will be to federal law, prop 19 hits the federal enforcement issue hard
federal change is in the wind, but the less pressure the slower it will be

 

[zen_trikester]

Blahblahblahblahblah

I have said it many times but the above poster perfectly illustrates this point:

The far right wing are trying desperately to kill this Prop and roll back MJ rights across the country.

Anyone who quotes Fox News Facts is not going to on the side of Cannabis Rights.
They have digested their Ailes flavored Kool Aid long ago. (yes it's a bitter drink)
Do not listen to them.
Period.

Anyone who says they are not voting for the bill because it does not grant them unlimited freedoms of one sort or another is disingenuous or uneducated in US history and how rights getting works or both.

Civil rights for any group... wow,
it's a slow long process.

Ask women how quickly the field was leveled for them after they got the vote.

It took African Americans over a hundred years AFTER Slavery ended to make a serious inroad into society rights wise.
The Irish arrived here to signs of "No Irish need apply" signs in store windows hiring.

The Germans were the first
race" that caused an outcry for "English as a National Language" because in 1903 a third of the USA spoke German after so many immigrants arrived.

We rounded up all the Japanese during WWII into interment camps.
Where were their civil rights.
Not one had a trial.

How are the gays doing rights wise?
Civil Rights happened overnight for them right?

Latinos?
Arizona. Nuff said.

And then there's us.

Cannabis users bear the heaviest weight for supporting a prison system currently built for corporate profit.

800,000 arrests every years because Prohibition is a failed public policy.

Ruined lives and family's destroyed every year because Prohibition is a failed public policy.

Prop 19 is a first step. (2nd step really after 215)
Prop 19 isn't about California alone.
Prop 19 is about a Loud Message to our Federal Government from the Voting Public that desperately needs to be sent, received and heard.

Cannabis Prohibition is a failed and costly Public Policy that is detrimental to the national security and economic strength of our country.

If you don't understand the big picture for the political fight for the civil rights of all second class citizen cannabis users then you can take your "unlimited rights, magic wand, wish upon a star, whiny dickhead strategy" and stick it up your stupid ass where it belongs based on it's long term chance of success.


Now you can all return to quarreling over 5x5 grow spaces and a 1 oz carry limit......




But keep the real important point about Prohibition in the back of your mind.


And then Vote Yes.

Fantastic post... really puts things into perspective!

Jed

 

[JJScorpio]

Yes. This is the answer for sure.

Another person telling everyone to go and lie to a doctor, pay the Gov't fees for your certificate and then grow and sell under the table while everyone else works and pays taxes for the building of roads, schools and everything else taxes pay for. Why not suggest that they apply for Gov't benefits to cover all the bills while you're at it?

Believe it or not, taxes do pay for a lot of neccessities that you and everyone else benefit from.

It's no wonder Cali's in the position it's in.... If nothing else this Bill has exposed what a joke the Cali med program is.

In Sacramento work a group of fascists who have set up a corporate welfare state in which the wealth created by the workers of California is funneled through corporations and into the hands of a small percentage of the population. Unfortunately, all systems of political power seek to preserve their power by continually increasing their control over the individuals who power the system. This system has overburdened the workers of California to the point where most honest contributing members of the community cannot afford to live in that community without going into debt.

Prop 215 has created quite a situation for the fascists. The states biggest cash crop is being bought and sold in an underground economy which they are having a very difficult time regulating, controlling and taxing. Any mom or pop can set up a home business which produces a good return with little to no fear of prosecution and with no taxes or red tape. Maybe the fascists didn't see it coming but the authors of 215 really gave the individual worker in California a lot of power.

Any Californian over the age of 18 can get good cannabis for relatively cheap and face little to no fear of prosecution if they have less than an ounce. If you want to grow or need to have more than a small amount you can get a medical card and you are good to go. 8 ounces, 6 plants as big as you want, and the fascists can go screw themselves.

The morality of getting a medical card was mentioned in an earlier post but the fascist state knows no such thing as morality. It is my opinion that our modern society has created a situation where anyone who benefits from cannabis is a medical patient. If it makes you happier, you are a medical patient my friend. Get a card and the fascists can't touch you.

Since the fascists are running out of ways to tax the workers and have driven most business out of California, it is time to get their hands in this economy running around right under their noses. Imagine that, the biggest cash crop in the state with the lowest tax rate. Who is benefitting from this situation? The little guy. The average California smoker who can get the worlds best weed for cheap at almost any time with little to no fear of prosecution. Mom and Pop who just turned little Johnny's bedroom into a grow room to pay for his college also benefit. Good for the little guy, bad for the fascists.

Now what is this law really going to do? A wise man once said "by their fruits you shall know them." Prop 19 is going to do little to nothing to make the cannabis situation any better for voting Californians. Any Californian over the age of 21 who wants to be able to legally possess and grow cannabis needs only to get a medical card. No prosecution for up to 8 ounces and 6 plants, no taxes on any donations received from patients 18 or older, and no fascists tax on a plant.

In California right now we have the best of both worlds. The 215 authors really did a good job of giving this plant to the people. I can eat my cake and have it too. And so can you.

As far as I am concerned, there is a struggle of the individual against the fascist state we call our government. Some people don't struggle very hard these days and put faith in the fascists that were just jailing them to help them out. Growers and users of cannabis currently have the upper hand on the fascists that are going to enact prop 19.

Now what will be the fruits of prop 19? More felonies on the books for sharing cannabis. More taxes on California workers which will benefit the few through corporations. Nobody over 21 is going to jail with an ounce right now. The black market created by cannabis prohibition in California has created a situation that benefits the individual workers and not the fascists.

I am all for legalization, just against tax, control, and regulate. The end result of this prop will be the transfer of wealth out of the hands of the California worker and into the hands of corporations through taxation.

It is speculation that this will stop the 800,000 arrests not in California. It is speculation that this is the road to legalization. It takes some mental gymnastics to jump to the conclusion that other states will do as California has done.

It is true that nobody over the age of 21 is going to jail for an ounce or less. It is true that if you want to grow or fear prosecution you can be legal tomorrow. I know it is immoral to jump through a hoop to avoid the persecution created by immoral fascist laws but the state does not know or care about morality.

I am sorry if the fascists are throwing people in jail in other states but I have no control over that. I do have some control over what the fascists are doing in California and this prop will transfer power and wealth away from the workers of California and into the hands of the few. The current situation is better for me and every other mom and pop stoner in California under 215 without the corporate takeover of the cannabis market. The average Californian cannot afford any more taxes in any form. Many Californians grow so they can pay their current taxes.

I don't participate much in the scheme called government and last election day I went and bought a gun instead of voting. I will not vote yes for this law but I really don't believe participating in a corrupt system can ever produce a good situation for the majority of individuals. So you won't see a no either.

I just find it interesting how much the yessa massa icmagers are sugar coating the issue and playing right into the hands of the fascists.

Nobody over the age of 21 in Cali is going to jail for an ounce or less. This prop changes nothing. Anyone who wants to grow in a 5x5 space tax free and share produce with others tax free can be legal tomorrow. Prop 19 does nothing to improve this. Anyone 18 or older who fears prosecution for ingesting cannabis can be legal tomorrow. Prop 19 doesn't improve upon this.

Since the California worker has the upper hand on the fascists for once, I would hold out for a better prop.

The fascists can piss off until they write a proposition a little more in line with my idea of legalization. Like I tell my wife, "if someone wants a piece of my pie, better make it a threesome."

 

[JJScorpio]

215 is not a joke. It is tax free legalization. You are such a expert on propositions maybe you should go back and read 215. It is for anyone for which cannabis relieves a condition. Maybe you should take it a little more seriously.

You and all your tax free talk.

I bet you drive on the roads taxes built don't you? Call the Police when you get robbed? Have kids that go to school? Get free medical care?

Talk about a fascist. You think you're little group of 215'ers should kick back and let others break their backs while paying the taxes that you and the other tax free 215'ers enjoy.

I fucking hate taxes. And taxes wouldn't be so high if there weren't always a group of scammers living off the system all the while they have underground businesses paying them 100 percent tax free money.

People like you will be the reason that 215 collapses for the sick people that really need it. But I'm sure that won't bother you....

until november comes around...we should all just chill the fuck out and close this thead.

I'd much rather see what people really are....

 

[dagnabit]

In Sacramento work a group of fascists who have set up a corporate welfare state in which the wealth created by the workers of California is funneled through corporations and into the hands of a small percentage of the population. Unfortunately, all systems of political power seek to preserve their power by continually increasing their control over the individuals who power the system. This system has overburdened the workers of California to the point where most honest contributing members of the community cannot afford to live in that community without going into debt.

why should i not be allowed to grow my own mj w/o having to ask a "fascist"?

Prop 215 has created quite a situation for the fascists. The states biggest cash crop is being bought and sold in an underground economy which they are having a very difficult time regulating, controlling and taxing. Any mom or pop can set up a home business which produces a good return with little to no fear of prosecution and with no taxes or red tape. Maybe the fascists didn't see it coming but the authors of 215 really gave the individual worker in California a lot of power.

why should i not be allowed to grow my own mj w/o having to ask a "fascist"?

Any Californian over the age of 18 can get good cannabis for relatively cheap and face little to no fear of prosecution if they have less than an ounce. If you want to grow or need to have more than a small amount you can get a medical card and you are good to go. 8 ounces, 6 plants as big as you want, and the fascists can go screw themselves.

why should i not be allowed to grow my own mj w/o having to ask a "fascist"?

The morality of getting a medical card was mentioned in an earlier post but the fascist state knows no such thing as morality. It is my opinion that our modern society has created a situation where anyone who benefits from cannabis is a medical patient. If it makes you happier, you are a medical patient my friend. Get a card and the fascists can't touch you.

why should i not be allowed to grow my own mj w/o having to ask a "fascist"?

Since the fascists are running out of ways to tax the workers and have driven most business out of California, it is time to get their hands in this economy running around right under their noses. Imagine that, the biggest cash crop in the state with the lowest tax rate. Who is benefitting from this situation? The little guy. The average California smoker who can get the worlds best weed for cheap at almost any time with little to no fear of prosecution. Mom and Pop who just turned little Johnny's bedroom into a grow room to pay for his college also benefit. Good for the little guy, bad for the fascists.

why should i not be allowed to grow my own mj w/o having to ask a "fascist"?

Now what is this law really going to do? A wise man once said "by their fruits you shall know them." Prop 19 is going to do little to nothing to make the cannabis situation any better for voting Californians. Any Californian over the age of 21 who wants to be able to legally possess and grow cannabis needs only to get a medical card. No prosecution for up to 8 ounces and 6 plants, no taxes on any donations received from patients 18 or older, and no fascists tax on a plant.

why should i not be allowed to grow my own mj w/o having to ask a "fascist"?

In California right now we have the best of both worlds. The 215 authors really did a good job of giving this plant to the people. I can eat my cake and have it too. And so can you.

why should i not be allowed to grow my own mj w/o having to ask a "fascist"?


you see where im going..


ok so how does all of the misuse of the term fascist relate to me being able to grow my own smoke w/o having to ask permission from the "fascists" to do so?

a more "fascist" idea would be YOU telling me i cant grow in my own home without begging the government because YOU morally oppose my right to do so...


a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

sorry this bill does not support dictators or racisim and it promotes the individuals right to grow WITHOUT asking "massa" for a card...

you may want to continue to beg your masters for permission to grow under 215 i would rather shuck off the yoke of bondage and ask permission from no one..

but its been a looooong time since i had to ask mommy if i could stay up past my bedtime i am not used to asking permission from my nanny.

 

[dagnabit]

To me the bottom line is that this prop does nothing to improve upon 215. Anyone over the age of 18 in California can be legal tomorrow.

do you think i should have to register any gun i own?

do you think i should have to get a recomendation from a quack(pay him)then send all of my info to the "fascists" and pay them some more so they can put me in a database of growers?

are you sure your not an obama voter?

i dont think having to register my illegal activity with the government that put me in a 6X6 for 4 years for doing said legal activity is perfect...how about you?

 

[dagnabit]

dagnabit every point you counter with is BS, the same recycled arguments most of you spout on here over and over again.

im sick of hearing the "5x5 is enough, you suck at growing..i can pull 3lbs every harvest out of 5x5 blah blah blah"

what may satisfy you doesnt satisfy other growers. 5x5 is petty pipsqueak bullshit limits aimed specifically at momnpop growers. and 5x5 PER RESIDENCE is also a huge bullshit restriction. who cares if im protected under 215....under 19, you should be able to grow all the fuck you want, not be limited by some bullshit limit that will bite your ass in court when they arrest you anyways.

im sick of hearing the "you're on the side of LEO"
so the fuck what?? we may be on the anti side...but the reasons are on different parallels. they have their moral anti marijuana attitude, and yes they love busting drug dealers too. We are trying to protect our way of life. most growers make a living through what they do, play the game, take the risks, reap the rewards. no risk no revenue thats how most of us live by...how can you blame them for wanting to protect their revenue source??? i grow and broker weed because i dont want to be a damn pawn in the 9-5 game. i do this shit because im my own CEO, i dont wanna fucking work for agrafarm making 50k a year growing THEIR WEED when i can make 100k growing and selling my buddies crops.

im sick of the "you grow bullshit, adapt and make a living under 19"

this whole argument is based on the pipe dream of marijuana tourism, hemp shirts LOL, and other momnpop non-lucrative BS side businesses that you ASSUME can be run under Tax and Regulate 2010. "you can still make money selling your OG kush for 1500 a pound" GTFO HERE!!! yeah!! im willing to take a 50% drop in revenue while richard lee and oakland make millions!! WOOHOO!

im also sick of everyone whoring out the legalization term. "DUUUUDE ITS GONNA BE LEGAL...NO MORE PEOPLE IN JAIL DUDE! WE CAN SMOKE ON THE STREET AND NO ONE WILL HARASS US YAAAAH!"

stop smoking dog shit. this aint legalization ITS TAX AND REGULATE. nothing about 19 really makes things more legal than they are under 215, in many peoples eyes in more restrictive.

They are angry at the gray area that we have under 215. they are angry that normal joes are clocking a decent salary tax free growing plants...so they want to shut it down plain and simple.

"Id rather them tax and regulate, than fine and imprison,"
'

WHY CANT YOU LEGAL EAGLES SEE THIS ISNT THE CASE. ITS GONNA BE TAX AND REGULATE, PLUS PRISONS AND FINES FOR THOSE WHO DONT COMPLY WITH THEIR SKIMPY LIMITS.


whatever...im not trying to convince any of you to vote NO. im just letting you legal eagles know that in november me and almost every single person i know will be voting NO on 19. You cant throw a rock in the bay area without finding people who make decent underground living in the grey area of 215, from cash croppers to trimmers to brokers to the guys selling small sacks.

why the hell would any of us want to give up our industry to richard lee and his overpaid barons, so they can kill the black market and kill our livliehoods and all the satellite businesses that thrive because of it.

why the hell would any of us want to give MORE CONTROL to an already inept and idiotic government, one that spends spends spends, then looks to tax shit when their books dont balance.

ESPECIALLY WHEN MOST ARE ALREADY SATISFIED WITH 215. what benefits does 19 give us seriously???? So the average guy can smoke a doob and grow a small grow.....UM HE CAN ALREADY DO THAT UNDER 215!!!!!! HES NOT GOING TO JAIL ANYWAYS!!!!

If richard lee wanted to appeal to more people, he would have left the 5x5, 1 grow per residence, 1oz in the street, 18-21 limits off the books. but NO, he put that shit in there because he is taking direct shots at those who operate under 215. richard lee knows Blue Sky sucks and has a terrible reputation, so he wants to level the playing field by allying with the government and big business to simply wipe the competition out.

seriously....take those ludicrous limits off the ballot, and il vote YES on 19. no amount of "215 is safe" is gonna convince me because i know how shady people in power work. once 19 is passed, they will begin to chip away at 215 bet you.

LMAO

you quoted a question i asked and never answered it..

thats ok


please do explain one thing?


how does me being allowed to grow w/o asking permission or registering with the state hurt you?

 

[dagnabit]

I'd much rather see what people really are....

AMEN!!

215 you can say you dont stand w/leo...but they are standing with you..


and you can call bullshit on my posts all you want..

but i quote the bill you quote your feelings.

i DONT WANT TO REGISTER MY GUNS,GROW,COCK,DOG,PIZZA,CAT,TURDS, OR ANYTHING ELSE WITH THE GOVERNMENT!!!

AN AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE IS JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

you people seem to forget that is all 215 gives you is an affirmative defense!

if you think needing to register with the government is just fine vote no..

i guess i just dont think like that.

 

[Smoke Buddy]

You dont register with the government under 215 AT ALL. Its a private recomendation between you and your doctor. In fact the confidentiality between you and your doctor is one of the most sacred as far as law goes. If you want a state or county card thats your business but you sure done need one.

 

[rives]

You dont register with the government under 215 AT ALL. Its a private recomendation between you and your doctor. In fact the confidentiality between you and your doctor is one of the most sacred as far as law goes. If you want a state or county card thats your business but you sure done need one.

Yeah right. That's right in there with the check's in the mail, I won't come in your mouth, change you can believe in, etc. I have been in numerous meetings with the company's workers comp administrator and seen the records that are inadvertently released by the doctor's office. You can count on the fact that if the information exists anywhere, it will be released sometime.

 

[Smoke Buddy]

Yeah right. That's right in there with the check's in the mail, I won't come in your mouth, change you can believe in, etc. I have been in numerous meetings with the company's workers comp administrator and seen the records that are inadvertently released by the doctor's office. You can count on the fact that if the information exists anywhere, it will be released sometime.

Wrong! Your medical records are private and can only be shared with a medical records release form that you sign. Lets keep it between the lines and not spread bullshit.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

SamS what do you call medicinal cannabis ie sativex cheap or pricey? just a thought...

http://mssociety.ca/en/research/medmmo-marij-sativex-june05.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE65K0DP20100621

Pricy, like most pharmaceutical products that have to go through a 10 year development and approval process. But for non-smokers that get their med's paid for by insurance it is a godsend. I believe the more forms of delivery the better, and the more patients Cannabis can help the better.

-SamS

 

[ReelBusy1]

Wrong! Your medical records are private and can only be shared with a medical records release form that you sign. Lets keep it between the lines and not spread bullshit.

but that is the only way they can get their story to stick to the wall.

 

[ReelBusy1]

Originally Posted by cephas
And understand that while "in theory" the future in unknown and anything can happen...most likely what will happen is basically what has been happening....

Actually I do know the future if Prop 19 passes and the status quo is not the correct answer.

If Prop 19 wins all the whiny arguments about 5x5 etc will not matter.

The Federal Government will challenge Prop 19 in court like the Arizona "papers please" law in court to prevent it from implementing.

This will then become a 10th amendment case that could go to the Supreme Court with the Feds having to make their case for keeping MJ illegal and our side getting to argue publicly and in court the reason why it should be a legal commodity.

It is how the fight will be won.

This is a our Brown vs The Board of Education, our Roe vs Wade.

But the line needs to be drawn here and the only ways cannabis rights move forward is with a yes vote.
No gets you nothing and may lose what you have already by revving up the real enemies of cannabis to repeal and replace as they say nowadays.

We are slaves and second class citizens in this country because of cannabis prohibition.

It is not often in life that one can make a meaningful statement to the powers that be about what is right and how it should be.

For yourselves
For your family
For your friends
For future generations

Don't blow it.

 

[rives]

Wrong! Your medical records are private and can only be shared with a medical records release form that you sign. Lets keep it between the lines and not spread bullshit.

Yep, you have to sign a medical release form. Unfortunately, the information released is not limited to what is pertinent to the injury in question. The whole file is frequently released, and you have to sign the release in order to get treatment. If you don't know what you are talking about, you should keep quiet and learn.

 

[JJScorpio]

Wrong! Your medical records are private and can only be shared with a medical records release form that you sign. Lets keep it between the lines and not spread bullshit.

There are many instances over the coarse of one's life that release of medical records are mandatory. Applying for both health and life insurance, work injuries in litigation, and Court Orders due to arrest are just a few. Refusal to release these records will result in refusal of insurance.

Also, doesn't the dispensories that you do business with have information that you're a med patient? I'd be real confident that minimum wage workers having access to this info would keep it quiet.

Let's keep it between the lines....

 

[Smoke Buddy]

Yep, you have to sign a medical release form. Unfortunately, the information released is not limited to what is pertinent to the injury in question. The whole file is frequently released, and you have to sign the release in order to get treatment. If you don't know what you are talking about, you should keep quiet and learn.

Actually, I know what Im talking about, The records you saw were either released or you were committing a crime.
Secondly, My medical records from my regular doctor do NOT contain my cannabis recomendation information so that when I sign a release its NOT on there. Didnt think this through very well did you? The only way the data from the 2 docs will be merged is if they do the electronic online record keeping at which time I assume they will be part of any medical releaze I sign.
Until I sign a release from my cannabis doc nobody will know period.

 

[Smoke Buddy]

There are many instances over the coarse of one's life that release of medical records are mandatory. Applying for both health and life insurance, work injuries in litigation, and Court Orders due to arrest are just a few. Refusal to release these records will result in refusal of insurance.

Also, doesn't the dispensories that you do business with have information that you're a med patient? I'd be real confident that minimum wage workers having access to this info would keep it quiet.

Let's keep it between the lines....

As I just mentioned, my cannabis recomendation is NOT part of my medical records that I would sign a release on if I need any of the things you mention. Seperate doc, seperate record.. my regular doc doesnt know I have a recomendation but he does know I smoke cannabis and that it is therapeutic for me.

Yes, the dispensaries have the recomendation from my cannabis doc... Not my medical records.

Peace

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

Wow, I never thought id be getting called a "fascist, government regulating loving liberal faggot" for wanting the plant i love legalized. and whats even worst its coming from people who i THOUGHT were on our side...

you antis keep saying its not a greed thing, but what else could it be?


5x5 isnt enough? maybe not for you wanting to slang your extra weight tax free, but i know alot of people who would be happy as fuck to be able to grow LEGALLY and supply themselfs (maybe thats the fear, that even with them growing illegally nobody will wnat the shit cuz they can grow their own quality smoke)

5x5 is the minimum and can be raised!!!!!!!

215 first only allowed 3 plants in veg and 3 plants in flower, now you can grow as much as you want.

hell i even remember growers condeming 215 (including jack herer) because it wasnt 'true legalization' and it was the same story, growers and dealers trying to scare people from voting on 215 because they were afraid it would dry up their underground market....

i guess history does repeat it self....

do you understand sometimes you have to make a comprimise to get what you want? and then work on bettering it once you have it?

jesus fucking christ, these kids must be 15 to have such a ignorant point of view. and what is with this whole fuck the government. when i think government i think washington, not my local representives.

alot of good can come at a local level, but you have to work for it, your fucking dreaming if you think legalization is going to come on some silver plattter catered to your prefrences. how many people are putting up the $1,500,000 to get things legalized. hell you guys dont even want to pay sales tax and you think you can come up with a milli and a half for the next legalization?? hahahahah yeah right!!!! jack herer couldnt even get you clowns to chip in on a 100k to get his iniative on the ballot!!!!!



but hey if you want to vote against the only chance of legalization because YOU got 215, fine. just dont come crying asking IC for money once a new republican gets into the white house and wages a war on MMJ because its obvious just an overabused way for rec users to get high.

remember bush hitting the growers and dispensaries on a bi annual basis? i imagine a much huger shit storm.

history repaeats it self, and so do i, anyone care to remember the carter - reagan fiasco? oh wait i forgot i was talking to 15 year olds screaming fuck the gov.....i guess youll get that next year in your sophmore history class....

 

[rives]

As I just mentioned, my cannabis recomendation is NOT part of my medical records that I would sign a release on if I need any of the things you mention. Seperate doc, seperate record.. my regular doc doesnt know I have a recomendation but he does know I smoke cannabis and that it is therapeutic for me.

Yes, the dispensaries have the recomendation from my cannabis doc... Not my medical records.

Peace

In the community that I live in, almost all of the doctor's in the three surrounding towns belong to the same medical group. Guess how the records are handled. It is a 150 mile round trip to get to doctors that aren't part of this group. When I was injured, the comp carrier requested access to my financial records so that they could go back through and see if I had paid for treatment at a walk-in clinic, a doctor who wasn't my doctor of record, etc. Sure, it is theoretically possible to keep all of the stuff related to your rec on the down low, but is sure as hell isn't as simple as your first post inferred. This is one of the multitude of reasons that you should vote yes on 19.