WOW! I'm liking it! Just say No! Stoners for sobriety! Felons for harsher laws! I think we have some potential bumper stickers here.
-
Happy Birthday ICMag! Been 20 years since Gypsy Nirvana created the forum! We are celebrating with a 4/20 Giveaway and by launching a new Patreon tier called "420club". You can read more here.
-
Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!
ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010
- Thread starter JJScorpio
- Start date
- Status
WOW! I'm liking it! Just say No! Stoners for sobriety! Felons for harsher laws! I think we have some potential bumper stickers here.
215 is a joke. It's 99.98% recreational users and .02% patients who legitimatly need mj to help live.
215+19=234. 215-19=196. 234 > 196.
CrazyCooter
Member
To me the bottom line is that this prop does nothing to improve upon 215. Anyone over the age of 18 in California can be legal tomorrow.
Please don't give me the morality argument when we are dealing with an institution that outlawed a plant.
The end result will be a transfer of wealth away from the individual and into the hands of the corporate welfare fascist state. Sugar coat it however you want but go check with an "immoral" economist and get his opinion. If you want a reference to that please give me a reference to where yes on 19 ends arrests in other states.
"Tragedy & Hope" or "The Evolution of Civilizations" by Quigley can give you an idea where the fascists will take this.
Californians have the best of both worlds and if they want to be legal they only need to drive down the street and pay 100 bucks. Legalization!!!
Prop 19 is tax, control and regulate.
The shit's chess, it ain't checkers.
Please don't give me the morality argument when we are dealing with an institution that outlawed a plant.
The end result will be a transfer of wealth away from the individual and into the hands of the corporate welfare fascist state. Sugar coat it however you want but go check with an "immoral" economist and get his opinion. If you want a reference to that please give me a reference to where yes on 19 ends arrests in other states.
"Tragedy & Hope" or "The Evolution of Civilizations" by Quigley can give you an idea where the fascists will take this.
Californians have the best of both worlds and if they want to be legal they only need to drive down the street and pay 100 bucks. Legalization!!!
Prop 19 is tax, control and regulate.
The shit's chess, it ain't checkers.
B
blancorasta
215 doesnt say u must be on your deathbead or anything close in order to qualify. if weed helps you fall asleep at night and you would rather smoke weed than take ambien or something like it you get mmj rec. and your legal, legally. its an "alternative medicine" but since you live in california you knew all that.
peace
CrazyCooter
Member
215 is not a joke. It is tax free legalization. You are such a expert on propositions maybe you should go back and read 215. It is for anyone for which cannabis relieves a condition. Maybe you should take it a little more seriously.
Maybe you did not come across well with that statement Big as 215 has been a godsend for me and my family. Im not a commercial grower Im just a medical user and it has help me tremendously. without it I would have been much worse then Im now. Im not someone that has a headache or my finger hurts. I have spinal stenosis,RA and Degenerative disk disease.
B
blancorasta
my dad suffers from the same shit.
hes on valium, norco, and fentynal morphine patches. and is still in miserable pain most times.
i feel for you and your family.
peace
215(which i am thankful every day for) and what is has become...is begining to be ammunition for anti mj proponets on both the mmj and rmj fronts....
...the wealth is gonna end up in the hands of the wealthy anyway...thats america...its how it works....coot, and a few others w a view opposite of mine, i actually like much of what you say as far as anti regulation and anti taxation and im sure if we had conversations we would have MANY more views in common than not, im just not seeing this as a open and shut, california only issue....i cannot, for the life of me, come up w a reason, other then 'i dont like it' to vote no...i really DONT like it...i think it sucks balls and doesnt even come close to what i envision it should be. and i respect the fact that we need to look at it from all angles and dissect everything we dont like about it....BUT...
...this is a war...and in war, you dont leave the battlefield and give ground because it doesnt include all the ground you want...there IS NOT a simple solution to prohibition. sure, we can envision one, but it aint gonna happen. period. period. period. we WILL NEVER GET THE BE ALL END ALL LEGISLATION WE WANT IN ONE FELL SWOOP. CANNOT, WILL NOT HAPPEN. EVER. PERIOD. haha....if obama woke up tom and said, we are ending the war in afghanistan, it would take years to completely remove ourselves from the situation...not because we are incapable of running jets non stop around the clock to remove american presence there, but because thats the way our government does it.
...i am in the 40 to 50 yr old range, and lets say ive got ten years left on this earth, and lets say prop19 passes...no...lets say jacks bill was here this year, and it passed...im willing to bet that in my last ten years i would STILL not have seen cannabis end up where i, and most of us, think it should....the content of the bill is not whats important...getting it passed, and passed now, is what matters...attrition folks...thats how we will win...but we gotta take the ground we are standing on.
...the wealth is gonna end up in the hands of the wealthy anyway...thats america...its how it works....coot, and a few others w a view opposite of mine, i actually like much of what you say as far as anti regulation and anti taxation and im sure if we had conversations we would have MANY more views in common than not, im just not seeing this as a open and shut, california only issue....i cannot, for the life of me, come up w a reason, other then 'i dont like it' to vote no...i really DONT like it...i think it sucks balls and doesnt even come close to what i envision it should be. and i respect the fact that we need to look at it from all angles and dissect everything we dont like about it....BUT...
...this is a war...and in war, you dont leave the battlefield and give ground because it doesnt include all the ground you want...there IS NOT a simple solution to prohibition. sure, we can envision one, but it aint gonna happen. period. period. period. we WILL NEVER GET THE BE ALL END ALL LEGISLATION WE WANT IN ONE FELL SWOOP. CANNOT, WILL NOT HAPPEN. EVER. PERIOD. haha....if obama woke up tom and said, we are ending the war in afghanistan, it would take years to completely remove ourselves from the situation...not because we are incapable of running jets non stop around the clock to remove american presence there, but because thats the way our government does it.
...i am in the 40 to 50 yr old range, and lets say ive got ten years left on this earth, and lets say prop19 passes...no...lets say jacks bill was here this year, and it passed...im willing to bet that in my last ten years i would STILL not have seen cannabis end up where i, and most of us, think it should....the content of the bill is not whats important...getting it passed, and passed now, is what matters...attrition folks...thats how we will win...but we gotta take the ground we are standing on.
looks like he see's the same doc as me
Im taking pretty much the same
Im taking pretty much the same
localhero
Member
well i for one am glad to see some clear headed opposition that doesnt have fox news is the best and only real news ever attached. i feel like im just one click over on the yes side and its nice to see that other people can see the bulshit in the bill that ive seen.
SUB: youre killin me here with the 10 years left to live talk. ive never thought of my life as having a time limit before. what a terrible thing to face. i feel like i need to plot out my life right now to make sure the shit gets done that i want before i die.
SUB: youre killin me here with the 10 years left to live talk. ive never thought of my life as having a time limit before. what a terrible thing to face. i feel like i need to plot out my life right now to make sure the shit gets done that i want before i die.
hay dont forget 2012 brothers end of the world as we know it.
first i put twenty years down...but that just seems like such a long time! haha....the point being...this thing is a long way from being over...nationwide and worldwide....ive posted this statement(more or less) before in a few of these threads...but its something for all of us to consider:
Ive been paying attention, very close attention, to this issue for 25 years....thats a long fucking time....and i shit you not(for those of a younger age) I HAVE WITNESSED MORE MOMENTUM IN THE LEGALIZATION MOVEMENT IN THE LAST 25 MONTHS THEN I HAVE SEEN IN THE LAST 25 YEARS COMBINED......is there ANYONE posting on this sight, from either side of this particular issue, who would like to object to this statement? can anyone disprove what i just said? WHY in gods name, would we jeoperdize that momentum....PLEASE, please consider the POSSIBILITY that ANY defeat of ANY pro canna legislation ANYWHERE in the united states, but ESPECIALLY in california will set the movement back...and it may cause a hell of alot more of a set back then 2010 or 2012.....and the ACCELERATED MOMENTUM it would create for the country wide/world wide movement would be exponentially more then the damage inflicted upon us by a defeat.....now im wrecked outta my mind right now on my pain meds...and im really hoping when i wake up tomorrow my posts will seem as intelligent and prescient as they seem to me now...haha...but i would like to hear what the opposition thinks of this post...
Ive been paying attention, very close attention, to this issue for 25 years....thats a long fucking time....and i shit you not(for those of a younger age) I HAVE WITNESSED MORE MOMENTUM IN THE LEGALIZATION MOVEMENT IN THE LAST 25 MONTHS THEN I HAVE SEEN IN THE LAST 25 YEARS COMBINED......is there ANYONE posting on this sight, from either side of this particular issue, who would like to object to this statement? can anyone disprove what i just said? WHY in gods name, would we jeoperdize that momentum....PLEASE, please consider the POSSIBILITY that ANY defeat of ANY pro canna legislation ANYWHERE in the united states, but ESPECIALLY in california will set the movement back...and it may cause a hell of alot more of a set back then 2010 or 2012.....and the ACCELERATED MOMENTUM it would create for the country wide/world wide movement would be exponentially more then the damage inflicted upon us by a defeat.....now im wrecked outta my mind right now on my pain meds...and im really hoping when i wake up tomorrow my posts will seem as intelligent and prescient as they seem to me now...haha...but i would like to hear what the opposition thinks of this post...
World English Dictionary
fascism (ˈfæʃɪzəm)
— n
1. any ideology or movement inspired by Italian Fascism, such as German National Socialism; any right-wing nationalist ideology or movement with an authoritarian and hierarchical structure that is fundamentally opposed to democracy and liberalism
2. any ideology, movement, programme, tendency, etc, that may be characterized as right-wing, chauvinist, authoritarian, etc
3.( sometimes initial capital letter ) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
QUOTE=CrazyCooter
In Sacramento work a group of fascists who have set up a corporate welfare state in which the wealth created by the workers of California is funneled through corporations and into the hands of a small percentage of the population. Unfortunately, all systems of political power seek to preserve their power by continually increasing their control over the individuals who power the system. This system has overburdened the workers of California to the point where most honest contributing members of the community cannot afford to live in that community without going into debt.
Great intro...you got me listening. Awesome viewpoint.
Prop 215 has created quite a situation for the fascists. The states biggest cash crop is being bought and sold in an underground economy which they are having a very difficult time regulating, controlling and taxing. Any mom or pop can set up a home business which produces a good return with little to no fear of prosecution and with no taxes or red tape. Maybe the fascists didn't see it coming but the authors of 215 really gave the individual worker in California a lot of power.
I can see your angle here. However 'they' are not having a problem taxing my medical pot. I've had to pay tax now for a couple of years. Also you saying that just "Any mom and pop can setup...with little fear" is a crazy thing to say. I have never, ever felt 100% safe in growing my medical marijuana. The main reason is 215 does nothing to prevent my arrest. It does nothing to keep LEO from ripping up my plants. All my grower friends trip out on stupid shit all the time. We all have cameras. All 215 does is give an excuse at court...after all that bad shit happened. I've seen it first hand. 215 and all.
Any Californian over the age of 18 can get good cannabis for relatively cheap and face little to no fear of prosecution if they have less than an ounce.
"relatively cheap"?? by whose standards? What the grower determines what that worth is to be? How can you say that a plant that grows super easy but it costs more than gold is "relatively cheap" ? Aslo...here is a real quick lesson. Right now in Cali if you get caught with say 1/2 ounce.: You are issued a misdemeanor ticket that ranges throughout the state from $100 up past $350, You have to take the day off work to go to court {for most that's a couple hundred more dollars}, then you plead 'guilty' to the misdemeanor crime and get said fine. The next thing is you now have a misdemeanor drug conviction on your record. This is your public record and can be found in just a few clicks by any potential Employer. That conviction will also hinder in any attempt to obtain a federal student loan, not to mention fed home loan programs etc. So even if you still say..."Oh big deal...I'm a tuff guy...I don't need school and either does anyone else{remember your medical so it doesn't effect you}" what happens when you get caught again? Oh now it's not a hundred dollars...now its a little more and a 'repeat offender' added to your precious record. What if you get caught still again, say a year later? Now your probably going to be getting probation and a little jail...oh and that probation will be formal and you will have to piss clean every month. Smells just rosie!
If you want to grow or need to have more than a small amount you can get a medical card and you are good to go. 8 ounces, 6 plants as big as you want, and the fascists can go screw themselves.
Sorry man but this is not about medical pot. This isn't "how to play the game 101" either. We are trying to have a serious debate about "recreational" pot. You can't expect the MILLIONS of recreational smokers to get a card. And guess what? 19 gives them this right.
The morality of getting a medical card was mentioned in an earlier post but the fascist state knows no such thing as morality. It is my opinion that our modern society has created a situation where anyone who benefits from cannabis is a medical patient. If it makes you happier, you are a medical patient my friend. Get a card and the fascists can't touch you.
Well that opinion and your welcome to it
Again...this is not about you or I but think about others.
Since the fascists are running out of ways to tax the workers and have driven most business out of California, it is time to get their hands in this economy running around right under their noses. Imagine that, the biggest cash crop in the state with the lowest tax rate. Who is benefitting from this situation? The little guy. The average California smoker who can get the worlds best weed for cheap at almost any time with little to no fear of prosecution. Mom and Pop who just turned little Johnny's bedroom into a grow room to pay for his college also benefit. Good for the little guy, bad for the fascists.
Again...you try to paint a pretty picture
but your living in a fantasy. I say that because MOST people that smoke pot are paranoid of the cops. They do fear prosecution. When I go to a Dodger game and smoke a joint in my car before hand...you bet we are looking out.
Now what is this law really going to do? A wise man once said "by their fruits you shall know them." Prop 19 is going to do little to nothing to make the cannabis situation any better for voting Californians. Any Californian over the age of 21 who wants to be able to legally possess and grow cannabis needs only to get a medical card. No prosecution for up to 8 ounces and 6 plants, no taxes on any donations received from patients 18 or older, and no fascists tax on a plant.
Again...see above for why that is a stupid argument. Having to hide behind medical laws and "if you don't want to...screw ya dummy..off to jail you go." is not going to cut it.
In California right now we have the best of both worlds. The 215 authors really did a good job of giving this plant to the people. I can eat my cake and have it too. And so can you.
Forbidden fruit. How much you peddle your fruit for sir?
Now what will be the fruits of prop 19?
"oo ooh ooh ooh Mr. Carter Pick me I know!" " Yesh Horshack, what is it?" "It gives anyone in California the legal right to carry with them up to one ounce of mary jane on their person or in their car, or even on their scooter!" Yesh Adam..anything else?" "Yeah...if you live there, you can even grow it now and you can even keep pounds and pounds of the stuff in your house. And you know what Mr. Carter...right now that will get you thrown in the pokie with a felony."
More felonies on the books for sharing cannabis.
Well your wrong there...I wont insult your intelligence because you seem to have some...but if you read the law you will notice that the only added criminal penalty is not a felony it is this...
Now...if your referring to...
Then your mistaken, that is the current law. That is not new, added or increased.
More taxes on California workers which will benefit the few through corporations. Nobody over 21 is going to jail with an ounce right now. The black market created by cannabis prohibition in California has created a situation that benefits the individual workers and not the fascists.
Maybe you should write for the LEO's over at no19.com cause that's brilliant! I just don't buy it. I already explained the true "cost" of a drug conviction. Also the black market does in no way benefit the "individual worker". How can you say that...because it costs more than gold? or maybe it because since you don't know jack about its origin you get the occasional added pleasure of pesticides or bugs...snap crackle and pop anyone? No fucking thank you! I want my shit regulated! I want to make sure the fucking health department checks these places and makes sure they don't have mold and what have you. If I am paying for it I demand it...I demand it just as I do with my booze...i don't drink moonshine. The small growers...the mom and pops...well times are changing...they either get theri shit together and make 19 work for them or they lose...I don't care. The smart shall survive and the weak..or in this case the growers of mids, will have to find something else to do. In the end this is about the numbers...the number of people this law can and will help. The message it will bring to the rest of the world who is now watching, waiting to see what happens....yep their watching...the couple hundred million pot smokers around this earth.
I am all for legalization, just against tax, control, and regulate. The end result of this prop will be the transfer of wealth out of the hands of the California worker and into the hands of corporations through taxation.
See above
It is speculation that this will stop the 800,000 arrests not in California. It is speculation that this is the road to legalization. It takes some mental gymnastics to jump to the conclusion that other states will do as California has done.
mental gymnastics huh...that's pretty good. However my opinion is that it will...look at mmj. look at the cost...every poll, year after year shows people are losing faith in the war on drugs....the numbers don't lie...LEO does.
It is true that nobody over the age of 21 is going to jail for an ounce or less.
Sure...your 1st offense. Don't hide the truth...see above if ya forgot.
It is true that if you want to grow or fear prosecution you can be legal tomorrow. I know it is immoral to jump through a hoop to avoid the persecution created by immoral fascist laws but the state does not know or care about morality.
But people do and who again are you to tell people about 'morals"? meaning just assuming you can tell people to just set them aside...so you can keep making tax free money?
I am sorry if the fascists are throwing people in jail in other states but I have no control over that. I do have some control over what the fascists are doing in California and this prop will transfer power and wealth away from the workers of California and into the hands of the few. The current situation is better for me and every other mom and pop stoner in California under 215 without the corporate takeover of the cannabis market. The average Californian cannot afford any more taxes in any form. Many Californians grow so they can pay their current taxes.
Same shit different paragraph. Watch out for them fascists! Hey Cooter...you sure must have a ton of dem fukin fascists down in hazzard county.
I don't participate much in the scheme called government and last election day I went and bought a gun instead of voting.
Good for you! Your gran mammy would be proud!
I will not vote yes for this law but I really don't believe participating in a corrupt system can ever produce a good situation for the majority of individuals. So you won't see a no either.
That is too bad.
I just find it interesting how much the yessa massa icmagers are sugar coating the issue and playing right into the hands of the fascists.
Oh yes....they got me...those damn fascists!
Nobody over the age of 21 in Cali is going to jail for an ounce or less. This prop changes nothing. Anyone who wants to grow in a 5x5 space tax free and share produce with others tax free can be legal tomorrow. Prop 19 does nothing to improve this. Anyone 18 or older who fears prosecution for ingesting cannabis can be legal tomorrow. Prop 19 doesn't improve upon this.
Forgot you went over that or are you just tying to reassure yourself?
Since the California worker has the upper hand on the fascists for once, I would hold out for a better prop.
How is $400 for an ounce of a plant an upper hand? Who TF are you? Bill Gates...dude if are help me out...sometimes I'm out and because of my medical condition I my doctor wants me to consume 2 ounces a week. So that's 8 ounces a month...hum yeah..I got the perfect place for your $400 ounces.
The fascists can piss off until they write a proposition a little more in line with my idea of legalization. Like I tell my wife, "if someone wants a piece of my pie, better make it a threesome."
lol....so whats your idea of legalization CC? Seriously tell us.
fascism (ˈfæʃɪzəm)
— n
1. any ideology or movement inspired by Italian Fascism, such as German National Socialism; any right-wing nationalist ideology or movement with an authoritarian and hierarchical structure that is fundamentally opposed to democracy and liberalism
2. any ideology, movement, programme, tendency, etc, that may be characterized as right-wing, chauvinist, authoritarian, etc
3.( sometimes initial capital letter ) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
QUOTE=CrazyCooter
In Sacramento work a group of fascists who have set up a corporate welfare state in which the wealth created by the workers of California is funneled through corporations and into the hands of a small percentage of the population. Unfortunately, all systems of political power seek to preserve their power by continually increasing their control over the individuals who power the system. This system has overburdened the workers of California to the point where most honest contributing members of the community cannot afford to live in that community without going into debt.
Great intro...you got me listening. Awesome viewpoint.
Prop 215 has created quite a situation for the fascists. The states biggest cash crop is being bought and sold in an underground economy which they are having a very difficult time regulating, controlling and taxing. Any mom or pop can set up a home business which produces a good return with little to no fear of prosecution and with no taxes or red tape. Maybe the fascists didn't see it coming but the authors of 215 really gave the individual worker in California a lot of power.
I can see your angle here. However 'they' are not having a problem taxing my medical pot. I've had to pay tax now for a couple of years. Also you saying that just "Any mom and pop can setup...with little fear" is a crazy thing to say. I have never, ever felt 100% safe in growing my medical marijuana. The main reason is 215 does nothing to prevent my arrest. It does nothing to keep LEO from ripping up my plants. All my grower friends trip out on stupid shit all the time. We all have cameras. All 215 does is give an excuse at court...after all that bad shit happened. I've seen it first hand. 215 and all.
Any Californian over the age of 18 can get good cannabis for relatively cheap and face little to no fear of prosecution if they have less than an ounce.
"relatively cheap"?? by whose standards? What the grower determines what that worth is to be? How can you say that a plant that grows super easy but it costs more than gold is "relatively cheap" ? Aslo...here is a real quick lesson. Right now in Cali if you get caught with say 1/2 ounce.: You are issued a misdemeanor ticket that ranges throughout the state from $100 up past $350, You have to take the day off work to go to court {for most that's a couple hundred more dollars}, then you plead 'guilty' to the misdemeanor crime and get said fine. The next thing is you now have a misdemeanor drug conviction on your record. This is your public record and can be found in just a few clicks by any potential Employer. That conviction will also hinder in any attempt to obtain a federal student loan, not to mention fed home loan programs etc. So even if you still say..."Oh big deal...I'm a tuff guy...I don't need school and either does anyone else{remember your medical so it doesn't effect you}" what happens when you get caught again? Oh now it's not a hundred dollars...now its a little more and a 'repeat offender' added to your precious record. What if you get caught still again, say a year later? Now your probably going to be getting probation and a little jail...oh and that probation will be formal and you will have to piss clean every month. Smells just rosie!
If you want to grow or need to have more than a small amount you can get a medical card and you are good to go. 8 ounces, 6 plants as big as you want, and the fascists can go screw themselves.
Sorry man but this is not about medical pot. This isn't "how to play the game 101" either. We are trying to have a serious debate about "recreational" pot. You can't expect the MILLIONS of recreational smokers to get a card. And guess what? 19 gives them this right.
The morality of getting a medical card was mentioned in an earlier post but the fascist state knows no such thing as morality. It is my opinion that our modern society has created a situation where anyone who benefits from cannabis is a medical patient. If it makes you happier, you are a medical patient my friend. Get a card and the fascists can't touch you.
Well that opinion and your welcome to it
Again...this is not about you or I but think about others.Since the fascists are running out of ways to tax the workers and have driven most business out of California, it is time to get their hands in this economy running around right under their noses. Imagine that, the biggest cash crop in the state with the lowest tax rate. Who is benefitting from this situation? The little guy. The average California smoker who can get the worlds best weed for cheap at almost any time with little to no fear of prosecution. Mom and Pop who just turned little Johnny's bedroom into a grow room to pay for his college also benefit. Good for the little guy, bad for the fascists.
Again...you try to paint a pretty picture
but your living in a fantasy. I say that because MOST people that smoke pot are paranoid of the cops. They do fear prosecution. When I go to a Dodger game and smoke a joint in my car before hand...you bet we are looking out. Now what is this law really going to do? A wise man once said "by their fruits you shall know them." Prop 19 is going to do little to nothing to make the cannabis situation any better for voting Californians. Any Californian over the age of 21 who wants to be able to legally possess and grow cannabis needs only to get a medical card. No prosecution for up to 8 ounces and 6 plants, no taxes on any donations received from patients 18 or older, and no fascists tax on a plant.
Again...see above for why that is a stupid argument. Having to hide behind medical laws and "if you don't want to...screw ya dummy..off to jail you go." is not going to cut it.
In California right now we have the best of both worlds. The 215 authors really did a good job of giving this plant to the people. I can eat my cake and have it too. And so can you.
Forbidden fruit. How much you peddle your fruit for sir?
Now what will be the fruits of prop 19?
"oo ooh ooh ooh Mr. Carter Pick me I know!" " Yesh Horshack, what is it?" "It gives anyone in California the legal right to carry with them up to one ounce of mary jane on their person or in their car, or even on their scooter!" Yesh Adam..anything else?" "Yeah...if you live there, you can even grow it now and you can even keep pounds and pounds of the stuff in your house. And you know what Mr. Carter...right now that will get you thrown in the pokie with a felony."
More felonies on the books for sharing cannabis.
Well your wrong there...I wont insult your intelligence because you seem to have some...but if you read the law you will notice that the only added criminal penalty is not a felony it is this...
Now...if your referring to...
Then your mistaken, that is the current law. That is not new, added or increased.
More taxes on California workers which will benefit the few through corporations. Nobody over 21 is going to jail with an ounce right now. The black market created by cannabis prohibition in California has created a situation that benefits the individual workers and not the fascists.
Maybe you should write for the LEO's over at no19.com cause that's brilliant! I just don't buy it. I already explained the true "cost" of a drug conviction. Also the black market does in no way benefit the "individual worker". How can you say that...because it costs more than gold? or maybe it because since you don't know jack about its origin you get the occasional added pleasure of pesticides or bugs...snap crackle and pop anyone? No fucking thank you! I want my shit regulated! I want to make sure the fucking health department checks these places and makes sure they don't have mold and what have you. If I am paying for it I demand it...I demand it just as I do with my booze...i don't drink moonshine. The small growers...the mom and pops...well times are changing...they either get theri shit together and make 19 work for them or they lose...I don't care. The smart shall survive and the weak..or in this case the growers of mids, will have to find something else to do. In the end this is about the numbers...the number of people this law can and will help. The message it will bring to the rest of the world who is now watching, waiting to see what happens....yep their watching...the couple hundred million pot smokers around this earth.
I am all for legalization, just against tax, control, and regulate. The end result of this prop will be the transfer of wealth out of the hands of the California worker and into the hands of corporations through taxation.
See above
It is speculation that this will stop the 800,000 arrests not in California. It is speculation that this is the road to legalization. It takes some mental gymnastics to jump to the conclusion that other states will do as California has done.
mental gymnastics huh...that's pretty good. However my opinion is that it will...look at mmj. look at the cost...every poll, year after year shows people are losing faith in the war on drugs....the numbers don't lie...LEO does.
It is true that nobody over the age of 21 is going to jail for an ounce or less.
Sure...your 1st offense. Don't hide the truth...see above if ya forgot.
It is true that if you want to grow or fear prosecution you can be legal tomorrow. I know it is immoral to jump through a hoop to avoid the persecution created by immoral fascist laws but the state does not know or care about morality.
But people do and who again are you to tell people about 'morals"? meaning just assuming you can tell people to just set them aside...so you can keep making tax free money?
I am sorry if the fascists are throwing people in jail in other states but I have no control over that. I do have some control over what the fascists are doing in California and this prop will transfer power and wealth away from the workers of California and into the hands of the few. The current situation is better for me and every other mom and pop stoner in California under 215 without the corporate takeover of the cannabis market. The average Californian cannot afford any more taxes in any form. Many Californians grow so they can pay their current taxes.
Same shit different paragraph. Watch out for them fascists! Hey Cooter...you sure must have a ton of dem fukin fascists down in hazzard county.
I don't participate much in the scheme called government and last election day I went and bought a gun instead of voting.
Good for you! Your gran mammy would be proud!
I will not vote yes for this law but I really don't believe participating in a corrupt system can ever produce a good situation for the majority of individuals. So you won't see a no either.
That is too bad.
I just find it interesting how much the yessa massa icmagers are sugar coating the issue and playing right into the hands of the fascists.
Oh yes....they got me...those damn fascists!
Nobody over the age of 21 in Cali is going to jail for an ounce or less. This prop changes nothing. Anyone who wants to grow in a 5x5 space tax free and share produce with others tax free can be legal tomorrow. Prop 19 does nothing to improve this. Anyone 18 or older who fears prosecution for ingesting cannabis can be legal tomorrow. Prop 19 doesn't improve upon this.
Forgot you went over that or are you just tying to reassure yourself?
Since the California worker has the upper hand on the fascists for once, I would hold out for a better prop.
How is $400 for an ounce of a plant an upper hand? Who TF are you? Bill Gates...dude if are help me out...sometimes I'm out and because of my medical condition I my doctor wants me to consume 2 ounces a week. So that's 8 ounces a month...hum yeah..I got the perfect place for your $400 ounces.
The fascists can piss off until they write a proposition a little more in line with my idea of legalization. Like I tell my wife, "if someone wants a piece of my pie, better make it a threesome."
lol....so whats your idea of legalization CC? Seriously tell us.
Funny, BOE doesn't seem to agree that 215 is exempt from tax... Neither does the city or my lawyer....
CC,
Do you buy and there fore support any business or government that taxes, or regulates products?
Do you buy Clothing? Gasoline? Alcohol? Tobacco, Automobiles? I could go on and on but unless you buy none of these products and grow all your own food don't you think it is a little hypocritical to condemn anyone that wants to do the same with Cannabis that you are already doing with most of the consumables?
You say you support Cannabis legalization but not Taxes, regulations, and control, yet how much time do you spend fighting the taxes on alcohol? Or gasoline? Or clothing? Is your only concern to fight Cannabis regulation, taxes and no others? Isn't all tax and regulation just a plan by the fascists to steal all your money? You should be ashamed to ever pay any tax. You are supporting your enemy, wise up.
Oh and BTW, what you call "cheap prices" I call a "rip off". Cannabis can be grown in a back yard for less then $100 a kilo. Any thing else is not cheap, it is profit, and the only question is how much profit and who will it go to? You say the little guy benefits under 215? What a joke, what benefit is being able to buy 1/8 of an ounce for $60? I don't think you have any idea how the little guy lives.....
Legalize Cannabis, Tax and Regulate.
The prices will drop by 90%.
Now that would help the little guy......
-SamS
Last edited:
localhero
Member
vta, theres a few different definitions of fascism. the one hes referring to is this:
wikipedia:
Fascism, pronounced /ˈfæʃɪzəm/, is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology.[1][2][3][4] Fascists seek to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives, values, and systems, including the political system and the economy
wikipedia:
Fascism, pronounced /ˈfæʃɪzəm/, is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology.[1][2][3][4] Fascists seek to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives, values, and systems, including the political system and the economy
S
Silence
Maybe its got ya to the point you can have ya tax system for Cali and Prop 19 but still get locked up for growing... after that who knows where it goes.
maybe you'd prefer "HELP THE FUCKING GOVERNMENT"
S
Silence
SamS what do you call medicinal cannabis ie sativex cheap or pricey? just a thought...
http://mssociety.ca/en/research/medmmo-marij-sativex-june05.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE65K0DP20100621
dagnabit every point you counter with is BS, the same recycled arguments most of you spout on here over and over again.
im sick of hearing the "5x5 is enough, you suck at growing..i can pull 3lbs every harvest out of 5x5 blah blah blah"
what may satisfy you doesnt satisfy other growers. 5x5 is petty pipsqueak bullshit limits aimed specifically at momnpop growers. and 5x5 PER RESIDENCE is also a huge bullshit restriction. who cares if im protected under 215....under 19, you should be able to grow all the fuck you want, not be limited by some bullshit limit that will bite your ass in court when they arrest you anyways.
im sick of hearing the "you're on the side of LEO"
so the fuck what?? we may be on the anti side...but the reasons are on different parallels. they have their moral anti marijuana attitude, and yes they love busting drug dealers too. We are trying to protect our way of life. most growers make a living through what they do, play the game, take the risks, reap the rewards. no risk no revenue thats how most of us live by...how can you blame them for wanting to protect their revenue source??? i grow and broker weed because i dont want to be a damn pawn in the 9-5 game. i do this shit because im my own CEO, i dont wanna fucking work for agrafarm making 50k a year growing THEIR WEED when i can make 100k growing and selling my buddies crops.
im sick of the "you grow bullshit, adapt and make a living under 19"
this whole argument is based on the pipe dream of marijuana tourism, hemp shirts LOL, and other momnpop non-lucrative BS side businesses that you ASSUME can be run under Tax and Regulate 2010. "you can still make money selling your OG kush for 1500 a pound" GTFO HERE!!! yeah!! im willing to take a 50% drop in revenue while richard lee and oakland make millions!! WOOHOO!
im also sick of everyone whoring out the legalization term. "DUUUUDE ITS GONNA BE LEGAL...NO MORE PEOPLE IN JAIL DUDE! WE CAN SMOKE ON THE STREET AND NO ONE WILL HARASS US YAAAAH!"
stop smoking dog shit. this aint legalization ITS TAX AND REGULATE. nothing about 19 really makes things more legal than they are under 215, in many peoples eyes in more restrictive.
They are angry at the gray area that we have under 215. they are angry that normal joes are clocking a decent salary tax free growing plants...so they want to shut it down plain and simple.
"Id rather them tax and regulate, than fine and imprison,"
'
WHY CANT YOU LEGAL EAGLES SEE THIS ISNT THE CASE. ITS GONNA BE TAX AND REGULATE, PLUS PRISONS AND FINES FOR THOSE WHO DONT COMPLY WITH THEIR SKIMPY LIMITS.
whatever...im not trying to convince any of you to vote NO. im just letting you legal eagles know that in november me and almost every single person i know will be voting NO on 19. You cant throw a rock in the bay area without finding people who make decent underground living in the grey area of 215, from cash croppers to trimmers to brokers to the guys selling small sacks.
why the hell would any of us want to give up our industry to richard lee and his overpaid barons, so they can kill the black market and kill our livliehoods and all the satellite businesses that thrive because of it.
why the hell would any of us want to give MORE CONTROL to an already inept and idiotic government, one that spends spends spends, then looks to tax shit when their books dont balance.
ESPECIALLY WHEN MOST ARE ALREADY SATISFIED WITH 215. what benefits does 19 give us seriously???? So the average guy can smoke a doob and grow a small grow.....UM HE CAN ALREADY DO THAT UNDER 215!!!!!! HES NOT GOING TO JAIL ANYWAYS!!!!
If richard lee wanted to appeal to more people, he would have left the 5x5, 1 grow per residence, 1oz in the street, 18-21 limits off the books. but NO, he put that shit in there because he is taking direct shots at those who operate under 215. richard lee knows Blue Sky sucks and has a terrible reputation, so he wants to level the playing field by allying with the government and big business to simply wipe the competition out.
seriously....take those ludicrous limits off the ballot, and il vote YES on 19. no amount of "215 is safe" is gonna convince me because i know how shady people in power work. once 19 is passed, they will begin to chip away at 215 bet you.
really though, this is all bullshit. i dont even know why im getting involved in this because this only makes enemies. this is just like the whole liberals vs conservatives shit slinging contest. yall claim we are anti tax tea baggers, but in my eyes alot of you look like government regulation loving liberals.
the momentum is probably the only positive thing i see about 19....but WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE THIS BILL!!
Just like with healthcare reform.....our country needed it for sure. we needed reform..but when it finally came, it was a god damn POS bill with tons of bureaucratic bullshit! THE GOVERNMENT IS USING PUBLIC OPINION TO THEIR FAVOR, TO PASS A BILL THAT BENEFITS THEM WHILE THE MOMENTUM IS GOING. oh but it benefits the recreational user too wow!! but leaves out all of those in between, but who cares because they are greedy criminal cartel scumbags who profit off the sick right!?>!~
We want legalization, but instead we get a bunch of bullshit limits and restrictions, but ohh the recreational smoker is finally safe from.....DRUM ROLLLL>>>>>>>>>>>>> a court date and ticket.
I want to vote yes on legalization, but i cant and wont vote Yes because there are too many negative aspects in this bill that will kill other positive things we have going.
the few of you on the YES side who do argue with sensibility and dont resort to name calling and shit slinging i do appreciate. i have learned the positives things from 19...trust me im aware that its a big issue that could possibly change the national stance on weed (ALTHOUGH I PERSONALLY THINK THATS A PIPE DREAM TOO, yeah the bible belt will legalize marijuana because a bunch of hippy obama lovers in CA voted it in LMAO)....
until november comes around...we should all just chill the fuck out and close this thead.
Last edited:
- Status
