ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

[igrowone]

there does seem to be a working assumption that the counties will license large grows and screw over small growers
this is a big assumption, and may well be false
who's the DEA going to lay the love on? hint: bigger the better
it would seem to me that licensing a lot of small growers would be much more likely to work
say 10,000 little guys each moving maybe a few pounds a month, individually they don't make much of a DEA meal
prop 19 could be the best thing that ever happened to small growers, and it may be needed, it's the MMJ that seems to be getting ready to go corporate

 

[vta]

nobody has said yet what will happen at california's borders? will the import of marijuana be legal? will exporting it lead to jail time?

If someone was to read the proposed law they would see that the importation and exportation of cannabis is not covered. That means that absolutely nothing changes in that respect with the law. Nothing gets increased and nothing decreased penalty wise.

Think about it...The Commerce Law??? The feds control all of the interstate 'commerce'. If that bothers you it should but before ANY state law could allow for that..the feds need to also be playing ball...which cannot happen until rescheduling.

will California citizens be able to leave the state freely without being searched or scanned? how much more law enforcement (police) will be hired to enforce these regulations?

and who will enforce these enforcers?

So tell us your 'vision' here. Do you see the gov's of Cali and the neighboring states 'locking' down their boarders? That is not a very realistic view...I can drive out of Cali on a thousand different roads or trails that don't have checkpoints. As it stands....the mexican boarder is getting pumped up by the feds. The TSA has announced that ALL airport travelers will be required to preform a body scan before boarding any plane. If you refuse, you can have them feel you up instead. So you see...society is headed down a very intrusive path...anyways. I don't see 19 being the catalyst for this or a motivator and I don't see any "panic" on law enforcements view of cannabis post 19. if anything their attitude will just mellow. Also if your medical then you have this to look forward to...

Under the new Transportation Safety Administration regulations, Meili reports that authorized patients are allowed to fly with medical cannabis, and can even change planes in states where it's illegal. Link

 

[blancorasta]

hey all,
prop 19 boils down to state government taxing the shit out us because WE SHOULD BE HAPPY WERE NOT GOING TO JAIL FOR A WEED. im fine with an 8% sales tax but not some outragouse "sin" tax

ok everyone please think about this here...

right now in cali small amounts of weed (1 ounce or less) is decriminalized, you just get a ticket for $100 and u might get your weed taken maybe. anything more and its felony charges

whats going to change after prop 19 passes?

1 ounce or less is legal to posses, use, share, and transport but NOT SALE. anything more and its a felony, u sell any felony.

prop 19 really doesnt change anything (just like obama). think about it instead of getting a ticket your just paying your fine and court fees ahead of time in the form of TAX. at least right now you only pay if you get caught. dont be fooled by false prophets

if its illegal for me to sell u some of my buds where do you get yours to posses in the first place?

from richard lee's oakland wharehouse grow, the same guy who is spending over a million dollars to get this bill passed he's gonna monopolize the market. he'll be the one of the only guys who can legally sell

how is any of this fair or "free"?

peace

 

[dagnabit]

Also if your medical then you have this to look forward to...

HOLY SHIT!!!!

i live in michigan most of the time but maintain a residence in CA(before you prohibitionists try to call me out i vote in CA) and have always hated not being able to travel with meds....

 

[dagnabit]

hey all,
prop 19 boils down to state government taxing the shit out us because WE SHOULD BE HAPPY WERE NOT GOING TO JAIL FOR A WEED. im fine with an 8% sales tax but not some outragouse "sin" tax

ok everyone please think about this here...

right now in cali small amounts of weed (1 ounce or less) is decriminalized, you just get a ticket for $100 and u might get your weed taken maybe. anything more and its felony charges

whats going to change after prop 19 passes?

1 ounce or less is legal to posses, use, share, and transport but NOT SALE. anything more and its a felony, u sell any felony.

prop 19 really doesnt change anything (just like obama). think about it instead of getting a ticket your just paying your fine and court fees ahead of time in the form of TAX. at least right now you only pay if you get caught. dont be fooled by false prophets

if its illegal for me to sell u some of my buds where do you get yours to posses in the first place?

from richard lee's oakland wharehouse grow, the same guy who is spending over a million dollars to get this bill passed he's gonna monopolize the market. he'll be the one of the only guys who can legally sell

how is any of this fair or "free"?

peace

you missed two very important points....

I: adults can grow in their own homes and possess as much as they like.

II: it is a signal to everyone that the time of prohibition is over.

did i forget to mention nit allows grown folks to grow and smoke their own w/o lying,paying,begging,or fearing.

 

[JJScorpio]

Sell. Sell. Sell. Holy Sit. We aren't talking about selling. Do you get it? We're talking about hundreds of thousands of normal hard working, tax paying Californians that can without fear of arrest, grow and smoke their own Cannabis. They don't give 2 shits about selling it. Can you comprehend that?

And if you're so foolish to think Obama hasn't changed anything you might want to look at all the dispensories in all the different States that are open.

I take it schools out?

hey all,
prop 19 boils down to state government taxing the shit out us because WE SHOULD BE HAPPY WERE NOT GOING TO JAIL FOR A WEED. im fine with an 8% sales tax but not some outragouse "sin" tax

ok everyone please think about this here...

right now in cali small amounts of weed (1 ounce or less) is decriminalized, you just get a ticket for $100 and u might get your weed taken maybe. anything more and its felony charges

whats going to change after prop 19 passes?

1 ounce or less is legal to posses, use, share, and transport but NOT SALE. anything more and its a felony, u sell any felony.

prop 19 really doesnt change anything (just like obama). think about it instead of getting a ticket your just paying your fine and court fees ahead of time in the form of TAX. at least right now you only pay if you get caught. dont be fooled by false prophets

if its illegal for me to sell u some of my buds where do you get yours to posses in the first place?

from richard lee's oakland wharehouse grow, the same guy who is spending over a million dollars to get this bill passed he's gonna monopolize the market. he'll be the one of the only guys who can legally sell

how is any of this fair or "free"?

peace

 

[Shcrews]

For those of you trying to reason with some of the ones arguing against this bill, you're wasting your time.

Greeds a much more powerful tool than logic. You're not going to change their minds. It wouldn't matter what the Bill said and how it was worded. Instead of looking at other avenues to make money, and pass the Bill for the sake of the thousands charged with Felonies every year because of small grows, they'll fight tooth and nail for the sake of themselves.

Ya see, in truth, even if the Bill passes, and it sucks, it's still better than what's there today. Just ignore it and grow your own.

Do you guys grow weak Cannabis? Because I have news for you. If you're bud is good, you'll still be able to get rid of it. And if worse comes to worse, you still have 49 other States that it's illegal in that are dry as hell most of the time. Take advantage of it. Oh I know, now you're going to say "but I could go to jail for that", right? Well now you know how the millions of other people feel every time they smoke. Or worse yet how the thousands of people feel sitting in prison because they had a small grow and got caught.

If you think things are going to stay the way they are now, even if this Bill fails, guess again. The Gov't will know that it failed due to the hundreds of thousands of people that are making tax free money from Cannabis, and they'll be more determined than ever to change things. They may even change the med laws when they see it's the reason legalization failed. If it's one thing the Gov't is good at, it's seeing ways to make money. And they're going to get their hands in the pie one way or another.

But what would worry me the most is the negative Karma following me around. You want to be careful what you wish for. Because when it's fueled by greed. and it hurts other people, Karma has a way of making your wishes come true.

greed has nothing to do with it. we give up more freedoms daily, usually in exchange for convenience.

did it ever occur to you that somebody could oppose government and taxation on PRINCIPLE, and not out of simple greed?

the greedy and corrupt ones are the people who keep the borders closed and the prisons open..

and i dont see you fighting against them.

cannabis is not prohibited in california BTW, i know hundreds of people personally who can legally smoke, grow, and possess, without paying taxes...

 

[gaiusmarius]

@blancorasta
dude you have to look at the bigger picture. first off if this prop 19 loses there will be hell to pay as it will really make the cannabis prohibitionists stronger by giving them a mandate from the people that they don't want cannabis legal. no one will say maybe it lost because it wasn't perfect. they will say it lost because people want cannabis to be ilegal. this will probably leed to attacks on existing med laws.

but more importantly passing 19 is a foot in the door, no matter what faults this prop has it does the main thing, it legitimizes recreational cannabis use. that my friend, is a mile stone in the fight against cannabis prohibition. from that point on things should only get better. because people will grow and situations will occur which lead to court cases and hey presto you get new precedents fixing things further and further. you can not expect all your canna dreams to come true over night, just like this and 215 before it, it will need fighting for and by dividing our forces you are only helping the enemies of any freedom for cannabis, let alone recreational use for consenting adults in the privacy of their homes. some of the fears about 19 may even turn out to be totally unfounded. basically this prop represents more potential cannabis freedom then you find in Amsterdam, Holland right now. that's not to be sneezed at, you know how awesome it feels to legally sit in a coffee shop and enjoy a smoke out? priceless feeling of freedom...

 

[JJScorpio]

You have no idea what causes I fight for or against. Understood?

And you can rationalize all you want about who's greedy and who's not.

And if the hundreds of people you know want to have to have a doc's permission that's on them. I would NEVER have anything with my name floating around like that. Is that what you mean by giving up freedoms?

And if this Bill fails I'm betting things change drastically regarding MMJ in the next few years....

greed has nothing to do with it. we give up more freedoms daily, usually in exchange for convenience.

did it ever occur to you that somebody could oppose government and taxation on PRINCIPLE, and not out of simple greed?

the greedy and corrupt ones are the people who keep the borders closed and the prisons open..

and i dont see you fighting against them.

cannabis is not prohibited in california BTW, i know hundreds of people personally who can legally smoke, grow, and possess, without paying taxes...

 

[rick shaw]

Look at how far we have come.20 years medical marijuana legalization started because 1,000s were dieing from complications due to AIDS.Look at where we are now 14 states and more to follow.Lots of gray areas,but it is a lot better.Even the haters or the misinformed,the worst thing I have heard lately is gateway drug. lol We are closer now then ever, dont divide march foward.Price will not drop. Much booze costs pennies to make they charge as much as you are willing to pay.Dispensarys do not bat an eye changing double your blood,sweat and tears.Micro and macros will keep on doing what they do.For you money minded people,farms big and small,consultant work,and more hydro stores then Starbucks. YES ON PROP 19

 

[dagnabit]

cannabis is not prohibited in california BTW, i know hundreds of people personally who can legally smoke, grow, and possess, without paying taxes...

rip up your coward card and call 911 on your grow find out how "legal" it is..

"legal" means lying to some fucking hack "doctor" and begging the state for permission to you..


hiding behind patients is cowardice.

 

[GanjaAL]

Wow.. and the insults keep coming. Reinforces my NO on prop 19.

Fact: prop 19 gives control to prohibitionist to regulate, tax and control as they see fit.

Fact: Prop19 opens the new assualt on rec users to take their kids away for growing. They are doing on the mmj side as well.

Fact: prop19 gives prohibitionists the power to ban any and all sales in a city or county.

Fact: by the above fact... it will serve to make a few rich off the the pharse that is taxation which is not and never will be legalization. How is it legalization when cities and counties can ban it and call it child endangerment for growing your own?

Fact: people will still cary more than an oz on their person which will keep the incarceration rate going as it is now. Current incarceration rates are from carrying more than an oz.

Fact: Prop19 is not the right bill for cali as it will not open doors at the Federal level. The VA on the mmj side will soon give us a defense at the federal level and hopefull soon have marijuana rescheduled.

VOTE NO on Prop19!

 

[Guest 88950]

...if its illegal for me to sell u some of my buds where do you get yours to posses in the first place?

from richard lee's oakland wharehouse grow...he'll be the one of the only guys who can legally sell

how is any of this fair or "free"?

peace

come on man, quit playing dumb.

you buy from a legal retail outlet and if there is none in your county then go to a diff county, get covered by prop215 or grow your own in the minimum 25 sq ft.

how is Mr Lee going to sell to the masses not in Oakland when he produces sub par weed?

its fair b/c ALL Canna related business' will be treated like every other legit business.

free.....grow your own out in the big hid in the sky.


has any thought how this could become a cash cow for your state via your rep for congress?
imaging the pork that inflates the federal budget for pet projects. its not likely that projects with Cannabis it the wording will get funded but they can use the Big $$$ words, tourism, agriculture etc.

just a thought

 

[vta]

cannabis is not prohibited in california BTW, i know hundreds of people personally who can legally smoke, grow, and possess, without paying taxes...

All those hundreds of people you know that are 'legal' are med patients. THIS IS NOT ABOUT MEDICAL CANNABIS THIS IS ABOUT RECREATIONAL CANNABIS

EVERY single recreational user {that's millions champ} in California can and most likely will go to jail if they grow cannabis. For them it's illegal..19 is about THEM...not you or your hundreds of medical friends.

 

[Guest 88950]

Fact: prop 19 gives control to prohibitionist to regulate, tax and control as they see fit.

Fact: prop19 gives prohibitionists the power to ban any and all sales in a city or county.

Fact: people will still cary more than an oz on their person which will keep the incarceration rate going as it is now. Current incarceration rates are from carrying more than an oz.

Fact: Prop19 is not the right bill for cali as it will not open doors at the Federal level. The VA on the mmj side will soon give us a defense at the federal level and hopefull soon have marijuana rescheduled.

VOTE NO on Prop19!

how can you give control of something when they already control it.

true, they can ban retail outlets and sales but you would still be able to grow with 25 sq ft.

true, some will carry <oz but="" if="" caught="" be="" charged="" with="" a="" crime.="" will="" 5.0="" know="" how="" much="" they="" have="" when="" the="" smell="" is="" no="" longer="" probable="" cause.=""><oz but="" more="" people="" will="" be="" able="" carry="" up="" to="" an="" oz="" w="" o="" fear="" a="" $100="" fine="" and="" possibly="" the="" loss="" of="" your="" bud.=""><oz but oh well, dont get caught.

false, so you represent ALL of the cali voters and know whats in their best interest!

you dont know what doors will be opened by prop19 on the federal level.......oh wait, you might since you represent every voter in cali.

i agree, hopefully we will get Cannabis moved to a Schedule II or lower but i believe that a majority vote for Legalization, or a taxation / regulation, will do more for rescheduling Cannabis than the majority saying Loud and Clear NO.</oz></oz>

 

[Guest 88950]

true, some will carry over an oz but oh well.


sorry for double post but when editing it wouldnt save it.

 

[JJScorpio]

Wow.. and the insults keep coming. Reinforces my NO on prop 19.

Fact: prop 19 gives control to prohibitionist to regulate, tax and control as they see fit.

Prohibitionists don't want legalization

Fact: Prop19 opens the new assualt on rec users to take their kids away for growing. They are doing on the mmj side as well.

Rec users have been being assaulted and having their children removed for decades. This Bill will finally give them protection against arrest for personal grows, thus sparing their children from being removed from their homes for committing felonies

Fact: prop19 gives prohibitionists the power to ban any and all sales in a city or county.

Right now all sales are illegal in any City or County. This Bill will change this in many of them.


Fact: by the above fact... it will serve to make a few rich off the the pharse that is taxation which is not and never will be legalization. How is it legalization when cities and counties can ban it and call it child endangerment for growing your own?

Exactly. Right now it's illegal for any recreational smoker to grow or possess, and people that get caught get charged with child endangerment. The passing of 19 will prevent the most of this.

Fact: people will still cary more than an oz on their person which will keep the incarceration rate going as it is now. Current incarceration rates are from carrying more than an oz.

Most people incarcerated now are people arrested for growing or selling, which is now a Felony. Many of those are small personal grows. The passing of this Bill will prevent tens of thousands of people being charged with a Felony for having a small personal grow.

Fact: Prop19 is not the right bill for cali as it will not open doors at the Federal level. The VA on the mmj side will soon give us a defense at the federal level and hopefull soon have marijuana rescheduled.

Hopefully you might shit if well fed

VOTE NO on Prop19!

Your Mama didn't raise any fools, did she? LMAO.....

 

[vta]

Wow.. and the insults keep coming. Reinforces my NO on prop 19.

So, you judge the insults and that helps you in deciding your vote? lol

Fact: prop 19 gives control to prohibitionist to regulate, tax and control as they see fit.

Yes...it allows GOVERNMENTS the ability to regulate...thats how things are done when your dealing with legal commodities...duh

Fact: Prop19 opens the new assualt on rec users to take their kids away for growing. They are doing on the mmj side as well.

The "New assault" huh. Yeah I can see it now. CPS is gonna need to hire thousands of new case workers to handle and take the kids away from millions of people growing pot. Oh but wait...it's gonna be legal....so...whats your point again?

Fact: prop19 gives prohibitionists the power to ban any and all sales in a city or county.

No...It gives "local' govs the right to regulate if they want. Educate yourself because the ONLY way for ANY legalization law to be, ah legal, is if it does not conflict with the fed laws. By enabling the 'locals' to regulate takes this burden off the state and thus allows the prop to be implemented without lengthy court battles.

Fact: by the above fact... it will serve to make a few rich off the the pharse that is taxation which is not and never will be legalization. How is it legalization when cities and counties can ban it and call it child endangerment for growing your own?

lol...fact huh...that's "Your" opinion. 19 is legalization. By definition junior....It "legalizes" a few things really. The ability to posses cannabis, the ability to grow cannabis, the ability to purchase cannabis....ALL LEGALIZED with 19. Ah,,,beer is legal and it has taxes, the frying pan I bought last night is legal...but i paid taxes on it. Besides, you have no idea who is going to get rich of this. Who are you? The Milton Friedman of pot?

Fact: people will still cary more than an oz on their person which will keep the incarceration rate going as it is now. Current incarceration rates are from carrying more than an oz.

If they do and don't have a card...it's on them. Stop trying to be our nanny.

Fact: Prop19 is not the right bill for cali as it will not open doors at the Federal level. The VA on the mmj side will soon give us a defense at the federal level and hopeful soon have marijuana rescheduled.

FACT...19 IS THE ONLY PROP FOR CALI RIGHT NOW. Your 'open doors, fed" thing is also an 'opinion' and not fact.

And your VA thing has nothing to due with recreational users.

GA...I have responded to everyone of your "facts" over and over again. But as long as your spew your shit...I will too

 

[blancorasta]

a fine is just a more enforceable form of tax

are you sure? you must get caught to get fined, you get taxed everytime you make a purchase or am i wrong?

a sales tax is cool and is expected, but why more? because the govt overspends grossly and is using the potheads as a scapegoat and instead of punishing us by making us hide and fining us when we dont. their just cutting out the hassle and fining you when you make your purchase.

peace

 

[dagnabit]

are you sure? you must get caught to get fined, you get taxed everytime you make a purchase or am i wrong?

a sales tax is cool and is expected, but why more? because the govt overspends grossly and is using the potheads as a scapegoat and instead of punishing us by making us hide and fining us when we dont. their just cutting out the hassle and fining you when you make your purchase.

peace

you have to make a purchase to be taxed on a purchase

im not sure if you are aware but 19 proposes no tax on growing