ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

[localhero]

metal,

look i know it will be a pain in the ass, but do try to skim through the entire thread.


then ask yourself, why am i posting here? do i want to have a legitimate discussion with other cannabis afficionados about the ins and outs of 19, how it will affect me and the community, how it will help and hurt me and others if it passes?


or do you want to convince the regulars that they are crazy for having a yes stance?

you will not convince any of the people you have been talking with to reconsider their position. just wont happen.

do you want to use this thread to soapbox your take on 19? well come prepared, research and read the thread, back up statements with quotes and citations. otherwise you will be skewered.

to me it seems pointless to try to come in here just to argue, win arguments, man up on the next guy, whatever.

so if you want to use this thread as a think tank, after youre done skimming, hit the thread back with a question, concern, helpful insight, whatever. and then we can all throw in our individual takes on your new beef and hopefully learn something in the process. or get cursed at

 

[squarepush3r]

heres the way I see it:

average person can grow 5x5, and have 1 oz max
big corporations/dispensary/collective/stores: can have as much as they want and sell whatever they want, but they can only sell, gram, 1/8th .. up to 1 oz

so where are they getting their mass inventories? they have mass grow houses or Richard Lee sells it to them.

 

[NorCal530]

I have a couple problems with prop 19. One being the fact that it is only a 5x5 plot per RESIDENCE. My residence consists of 3 people actively growing pot, that would not work. the second issue I have is the fact that it allows counties and cities to outright ban growing/sales/possession (atleast how I read the thing) any thoughts on that? With what is going on in LA here with the "ordinance" i dont like giving the cities ultimate control over the whole thing

 

[localhero]

I have a couple problems with prop 19. One being the fact that it is only a 5x5 plot per RESIDENCE. My residence consists of 3 people actively growing pot, that would not work. the second issue I have is the fact that it allows counties and cities to outright ban growing/sales/possession (atleast how I read the thing) any thoughts on that? With what is going on in LA here with the "ordinance" i dont like giving the cities ultimate control over the whole thing

yeah definitely the 5x5 floor and per residence thing in my mind is designed to make it difficult/inconvienent for people to grow their own. if you end up in a dry county, and you have a moral stance against getting med then you really wont be helped much by 19. unless you can and want to grow in 5x5, given you dont have roomates who wanna do the same.

if 19 passes and you are in a dry county, stick to your med card and wait it out. and you will be waiting, think there still arent dry alcohol counties in america? one of the worse, crappy, dogshit campaigns i ever had the totall misfortune of being poor enough to have to work on was to allow alcohol sales in i believe it was the third district in texas. besides, it doesnt make too much sense to have to drive way the hell out to the closest county with a legal store just for an ounce.

from what ive gathered is that they defered control to the counties in order to not be as abrassive to federal laws. makes sense, but the flipside is that if too many counties decide not to allow sales, then the feds wont be spread very thin if theres a backlash.

---

 

[localhero]

heres the way I see it:

average person can grow 5x5, and have 1 oz max
big corporations/dispensary/collective/stores: can have as much as they want and sell whatever they want, but they can only sell, gram, 1/8th .. up to 1 oz

so where are they getting their mass inventories? they have mass grow houses or Richard Lee sells it to them.

it will be weird, i mean think about it- right now norcal supplies atleast the majority of meds to all of cali. with 19 lets say worst case scenario the northern counties allow big commercial grows and store fronts, but out of the rest of cali only venice and i dunno, san francisco allow comm grows and store fronts.

nor cal at capacity will only have retail outlets in venice and san fran. well thats way too much supply and a complete bottle neck on sales.

the default position will be the status quo 215 for smokers everywhere else and nor cal will end up putting most of their commercial buds through med co-ops just as they do now.

so what we end up with is a bunch of californians still needing their med cards to get bud, and very few places where you wont need a med card.

 

[SKUNK420]

I wish Florida had the stones Cali does...

I wish I could have my full 2nd admendment rights like Florida but the 2nd admendment in California has been regulated to the point of it not being a RIGHT and more like a privilage. I fear people driving cars more then I fear people who own guns. I just had to say that one.

I'm voting no on this one. One thing about tax & spend politicians and progressives is that they think the amount tax money coming in every year is guarantted to be the same or more. Then they use the money to fund their social programs that will get them the politician in office re-elected giving them the ability to tell you what to do with your life aka: CONTROL. The type of control that so many of libral free spirit opeminded thinking people or mostly ignorant people fight against when a conservative person tells you to stop abusing your freedom to annnoy or be self-destructive in the name of your self-centered personal fun whatever it maybe. These politicians always think the money will be there to spend on social programs. You cannot guarantte how much people will spend. So when the money runs out they have to raise taxes or steal opps I mean shift money from one fund to another to cover the program in order to give money away in the form of social services that people get used to once they are recieving them. So if the program runs out of money or goes away the politician risks being voted out.

Now on to Richard Lee. I feel the guy could have help the medical movement through out the whole state of California and not just in his local area of Oakland and The city by the smelly body of water (sports fans know where that came from). Richard Lee is not helping city's like San Diego further it's medical marijuana fight agianst the republican lesbian D.A. He sends or recuits people to get signitures from SD to help what many have called HIS LAW because of this provision in the law:
"
7. Ensure that if a city decides not to tax and regulate the sale of cannabis, that buying and selling cannabis within that city’s limits remain illegal, but that the city’s citizens still have the right to possess and consume small amounts, except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9."

Okay so If my local republican D.A. and other city officials decide they they want to opt out of tax & reg. but I am still allowed to buy and smoke that's great for other cities that will tax & reg. like Richard Lee's Oakland,CA. Now I know your saying oh your acting like you won't be able to buy in L.A. because they are likely to tax & reg. but is not the point. The point is certain counties can still be screwed and not make any tax money or recieve a very small share from the state since they opted out to tax & reg. all the while it's citizens will be wasting money to drive to another county or city to buy their marijuana. Which will take money away from the local economy OR people will continue to break the law growing more then they should etc.. and if they get caught the sentences may be worse if the law is passed, which is usually the case ask anybody who exercises their 2nd admendment rights about regulation and tougher sentences for breaking them. Also don't go saying "well do ever visit places like Magic Mountain or go to a Lakers or X games? because if you do your taking money away from your local economy" as a come back to my point because you know that is a B.S. comparision. Certain attractions are only available in certain areas. So when it comes to a new law that is supposed to be revolutionary etc... it still has the chance to leave some people out in the cold if their local governments opt out. Don't start saying just vote them out because I'll say why not write the damn law so a local government cannot opt out. Whats so hard about that? They did it for a reason which I do not know. Remeber they have had lawyer after lawyer review it so they know exactly what they wrote andwhy they wrote it that way. If any of us are able to ever meet some associated with the writing of that portion of the law we need to ask them why. That was my regulation rant.

 

[someotherguy]

I have a couple problems with prop 19. One being the fact that it is only a 5x5 plot per RESIDENCE. My residence consists of 3 people actively growing pot, that would not work. the second issue I have is the fact that it allows counties and cities to outright ban growing/sales/possession (atleast how I read the thing) any thoughts on that? With what is going on in LA here with the "ordinance" i dont like giving the cities ultimate control over the whole thing

the state already has an outright ban on growing/sales/
possession.

if you can't see how having some freedom is better
than having none then you're missing the forest for
the trees.

the questions regarding local ordinance's will have to
be ironed out over time.

the passing of Prop 19 isn't the end of the war it's
just the beginning, the first small victory toward
eventually freeing the weed.

peace, and stay safe, it ain't legal yet, SOG

 

[Anti]

I have a couple problems with prop 19. One being the fact that it is only a 5x5 plot per RESIDENCE. My residence consists of 3 people actively growing pot, that would not work.

Ok..

#1 You are CURRENTLY growing more than 5x5 now with 3 people (I assume) so just keep on doing what you do. Either you have 3 people with valid MMJ recs OR you have three people who are already illegal NOW.Either way, it will be no worse for you and could potentially be much better because,

#2 You live in NorCal and the people in your area are likely to immediately vote to INCREASE the size of the growing area, which is allowed for in this bill. (The bill strongly states that you cannot force people to use LESS than 25 sq feet, but local governments can allow people to grow in MORE than 25 sq feet if they so desire.

So. Looks like you're covered on issue one.

the second issue I have is the fact that it allows counties and cities to outright ban growing/sales/possession (atleast how I read the thing) any thoughts on that?

This has also been covered over and over in this thread.

Currently, you are allowed to sell how much to non MMJ patients/collectives/etc.? None?

Ok. Well, nothing will change then.

It does NOT allow them to outlaw possession. Please quote the section you believe shows that it DOES allow this, and we will happily refute it for you.

With what is going on in LA here with the "ordinance" i dont like giving the cities ultimate control over the whole thing

You should be relieved to hear that the cities will not have ultimate control over the whole thing. Only on the legal buying and selling of recreational marijuana. MMJ laws are not affected adversely and anything else is already illegal now.

Would I be safe to assume that once you've confirmed what I say, you will become a supporter of Prop 19?

 

[Anti]

so what we end up with is a bunch of californians still needing their med cards to get bud, and very few places where you wont need a med card.

You won't need a med card to GROW YOUR OWN in a 5x5 per residence. Each residence can easily (if they need tips, ask me or filter my posts in this thread) grow 2 lbs every 2 months. So between 3 people, that's 10.67 ounces per person every 2 months, or a little over an ounce and a quarter each week per person.

Most people that I have met could easily support their RECREATIONAL SMOKING HABIT with 1.34oz a week.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Taxing Medical and Prop 19 gardens on ballot for November.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=184166

 

[igrowone]

It won't stop the DEA from coming in either. I can't wait for the first mega farm in oakland to get raided. You just watch and wait, if they have a mega garden with over 100 plants, its a raid waiting to happen. Like a friend of mine said, I would hate to be the first person with one of those permits, lol pretty funny if you think about it. You want proof, how about the 68 year old lady that just got raided by the DEA, after being the first to apply for Mendocino counties medical exemption. I know her personally, she is a very bright lady, been a higher up in the hospital world most of her life, very well respected lady, and most definitely had all the I's dotted and T's crossed. You think some new different proposition will change this? Your dreaming, put the bong down for a few and think about it.

the DEA has been discussed, but maybe not so much as other topics
if DEA is the concern, then what proposition is worth anything?
DEA will attack any and all MJ propositions to the extent they can
even the super terrific no tax, no limit, MJ prop of 2012(or whenever that happens, likely never)
in reality, DEA is pedaling as fast it can, they can't really do much more
they can change their targets, i.e. commercial rec shops
but this makes DEA look bad, situation out of control, they're not on top of the situation
which is what could prompt some federal changes
that's a 'could', not a 'would', but if you don't push DEA, you can count on 'no change'

 

[dagnabit]

I have a couple problems with prop 19. One being the fact that it is only a 5x5 plot per RESIDENCE. My residence consists of 3 people actively growing pot, that would not work.

the situation for your house would not change..
you will either still be protected by 215 or still be illegal.
the cgange would be if you wanted to be legal without having to ask the state permission(ie medical card) you just need to scale down.

the second issue I have is the fact that it allows counties and cities to outright ban growing/sales/possession (atleast how I read the thing) any thoughts on that? With what is going on in LA here with the "ordinance" i dont like giving the cities ultimate control over the whole thing

a city can only restrict sales or increase grow size.
they can not make the footprint any smaller than 5X5 and 215 is protected.

as for everyone hating the municipalities provision in this bill

I LOVE IT

it is much easier to influence or even replace a city councilman than it is to influence or replace a state senator.

so if your local offical does not abide by your wishes? replace him (maybe even with YOU!!!)

 

[StoneElemental]

Granted I used to smoke an ounce a day at one point. However I was in one hell of a party phase I guess. Anyway I know for a fact nowadays I'll smoke about an ounce or two a month. But over 5 ounces a month, most people with cry seeing that much weed pass by them constantly. Heck I haven't smoked in 2+ months and sure wish 5 ounces could float my way.

You won't need a med card to GROW YOUR OWN in a 5x5 per residence. Each residence can easily (if they need tips, ask me or filter my posts in this thread) grow 2 lbs every 2 months. So between 3 people, that's 10.67 ounces per person every 2 months, or a little over an ounce and a quarter each week per person.

Most people that I have met could easily support their RECREATIONAL SMOKING HABIT with 1.34oz a week.

 

[Anti]

Granted I used to smoke an ounce a day at one point. However I was in one hell of a party phase I guess. Anyway I know for a fact nowadays I'll smoke about an ounce or two a month. But over 5 ounces a month, most people with cry seeing that much weed pass by them constantly. Heck I haven't smoked in 2+ months and sure wish 5 ounces could float my way.

When I went from buying commercial at $60 a pop ($350+ per ounce) to growing my own, I was actually prepared that I would start smoking MORE once the price and availability were no longer an issue.

The very interesting thing is that I smoke LESS than I used to, simply because my herb is SOOOO much better and there is no anxiety associated with the herb itself. Like... when I had to buy it, I had to measure each bowl and think about the coming days so I could work getting more into my schedule, so I could make sure my paycheck was going to keep me floating til the next time...

Now I'm growing my own and I don't think about the costs any more. It's like i got a $500-$800 a month RAISE (without selling any of my stuff) because I'm no longer paying $500-$800 a month for herb.

And the fact that I'm less stressed about money may be contributing to my having less general anxiety and thus less reason to smoke. This is pure speculation, but the part about money saved and smoking less is not.

If you're getting by on 1 oz of commercial now, you could probably get by with less if you pick your favorite strains and grow your own.

 

[zen_trikester]

Great post Anti (another of many...). I have a question for those people in the smaller communities. Have you contacted your local officials yet? Do you have any idea what their thought pattern is at this point? Have you taken the time to outline what YOU think would be a good model for production, sales, and regulation in your area? Now would be a good time to start putting bugs in those peoples ears! Find out what they want to get out of this, figure out how you want to see it and write it up so that it works for you but can be acceptable to them.

For instance, your community could say that it only sells locally produced product. Or your community could allow for each retail outlet to designate 5 small scale local growers to supplement what they buy from the big guys. They could use a different tax structure for local product vs imported. Only local product could carry the Humbolt name or whatever, just to encourage people buying the local stuff. Why would that type of language be unreasonable for a community that wants to benefit from all of this? Put together a meeting with like minded people in your area and talk it out based on what will work for you and what would be most beneficial for your community. Everybody pitch in a hundo or two and have a lawyer draft something up for you, then designate a person to present it to your local officials. If you simply just don't want to be a legitimate business, then well... God help you, and enjoy continued prohibition, but if you want to help this whole thing benefit you then you should get cracking and be ready to jump after November.

Jed

 

[StoneElemental]

Great points tho the 1-2 ounces a month were from home grows which hopefully I will be starting up again soon. I did all this in 4 square feet so for me imagining a 25 square foot grow (over six times the space) seems great especially considering with the experience I have and continue to gain could allow me to even get into breeding. I'm currently working on setting up a perpetual setup utilizing a SOG method that would allow me to produce more than need. That all being said I've strongly considered moving to california if this bill passes hahaha. I'm still holding out on trying to help change legislation here but thats years in the making as we don't even have any sort of mmj yet. With a gaining strength in the movement especially if 19 passes this could mean wonders for me and the rest of the others in my and other states. Food for thought, always masticate first.

-S.E.

When I went from buying commercial at $60 a pop ($350+ per ounce) to growing my own, I was actually prepared that I would start smoking MORE once the price and availability were no longer an issue.

The very interesting thing is that I smoke LESS than I used to, simply because my herb is SOOOO much better and there is no anxiety associated with the herb itself. Like... when I had to buy it, I had to measure each bowl and think about the coming days so I could work getting more into my schedule, so I could make sure my paycheck was going to keep me floating til the next time...

Now I'm growing my own and I don't think about the costs any more. It's like i got a $500-$800 a month RAISE (without selling any of my stuff) because I'm no longer paying $500-$800 a month for herb.

And the fact that I'm less stressed about money may be contributing to my having less general anxiety and thus less reason to smoke. This is pure speculation, but the part about money saved and smoking less is not.

If you're getting by on 1 oz of commercial now, you could probably get by with less if you pick your favorite strains and grow your own.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

blah blah blah

Two things...

1. San Diego needs to vote bonnie dumanis out.

2. bushmaster is a piece of shit.


after reading your sig... i just cant take you seriously.

 

[Hydrosun]

Taxing Medical and Prop 19 gardens on ballot for November.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=184166

$600 per square foot or $15,000 per year to have a 25sq' garden.

Well Anti and Big Herb, you guys are right $15K a year to use my own home is just perfect! And it makes NO exception for MED gardens, so all you guys already registered with the state and living in Cordova get ready for inspections and HUGE tax bills!

 

[Guest 88950]

Hydro, care to respond about you being wrong that there isnt any laws against cultivating cannabis in NV & AK?

 

[igrowone]

$600 per square foot or $15,000 per year to have a 25sq' garden.

Well Anti and Big Herb, you guys are right $15K a year to use my own home is just perfect! And it makes NO exception for MED gardens, so all you guys already registered with the state and living in Cordova get ready for inspections and HUGE tax bills!

interesting, but will this survive court challenges?
seems unlikely if i read it right, taxing the guaranteed 5 x 5 growing space
i believe that law won't survive long, provided it passes