ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

[2Lazy]

I still don't see how it's in the agri-biz's benefit to drive down the price of their own product. It's like Nike selling Chinese made sneakers for less because they make a bunch more shoes for less now. It's like Aquafina selling bottles of filtered tap water for less because the drought is over.

It's like... business... and anyone with any sense will know that the price will not drop to an unreasonable level. It is all about Fair Market Value, what the consumer expects to pay for a product, that will modulate prices more than an increase in supply.

***Off topic***
I find it surprising that no one pins the current recession on fuel costs. Gas went up to like $5 per gallon. Food got more expensive. Hell, all of life got more expensive. Families didn't budget right, couldn't pay mortgages because they were spending 100% more at the pump on their Surburbans, and BAM! Recession shows up not more than 6 months after gas prices hit ridiculous levels. We all do realize this was Bush and his oil buddies getting outrageously wealthy at the very end of his second term. He bombs the shit out of the middle east for control of the oil, and once they have it, they gouged us into a world wide recession. Fucking douchebags extreme.

I mean, 20,000 plants just got nabbed in the hills between San Jose and Oakland (livermore), 80 million in pot plants (not to mention all the work that goes in to setting up a garden of that size) it was a HUGE operation and it's not the only one CURRENTLY operating. There are already serious suppliers of marijuana just in California, much less what is right across the border.

After power and rent and nutrients I still produce my buds for less than $3 per gram. Unless they start selling $100 ounces of fire then any business savvy grower will still be able to compete. Especially if they can produce at $2 per gram. I can't seem to find a way for these huge agri-biz corps to produce buds for less than $1 on the gram. Especially when I consider licensing, taxing, employee costs, insurance and lawyer costs, and then overhead. Consider an outdoor crop in California could easily be lost due to poor weather or pests. Massive indoor grows could also be subject to pests and disease as well as an increase in energy costs.

All the mom and pop need to do is produce meds at no more than $2 per gram and sell for $4 on the gram. That's a $120 per ounce cost to make a 100% profit on the investment. For the home grower just looking to offset their own costs though, this proposition is a no-brainer.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Not really cause I`m old enough to remember the harsh laws that used to be in place here in California at one time and I grew and sold grass back then anyway.One stem ment jail time and it didn`t deture me then! Now I do understand what you are up against but I`m not willing to compramise my goals of true freedom even if it ment going to jail so why would I do that now and allow my vote to progress a bill or law that adds two new laws to arrest people for smoking Marijuana like prop 19 does? Why would I want the state to tax me for what I already do ? Why would I agree to Regulate or control what I already do anyway? This state is broke they can`t aford to contenue to arrest people and keep them in jail much longer as it is.We don`t need to give up freedoms in order to make Marijuana lawful. The state would save money if they decriminalized marijuana by not plugging up Police,courts,and jails.As for taxes I see no way out of recreational marijuana being taxed with sales taxes but why add injury to insult by adding other taxes? We just don`t need to tax,regulate, or control marijuana in order to make it legal here in California! We just need to get a real prop on the ballot and people will vote into law! We can write a prop that gives both individuals and corprate intrests an even playing field!

Do you ever buy alcohol? Beer, wine, whatever? Is it Taxed and Regulated? Why do you buy it? Same with gasoline, clothing, processed food, and most of the items you buy for daily life. They are all taxed and regulated. Yet you want Cannabis to be special and have no regulation? Why don't you fight to get everything unregulated? Or spend the time and money to place a better Prop before the voters? I guess you just don't care that much?

-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I still don't see how it's in the agri-biz's benefit to drive down the price of their own product. It's like Nike selling Chinese made sneakers for less because they make a bunch more shoes for less now. It's like Aquafina selling bottles of filtered tap water for less because the drought is over.

It's like... business... and anyone with any sense will know that the price will not drop to an unreasonable level. It is all about Fair Market Value, what the consumer expects to pay for a product, that will modulate prices more than an increase in supply.

I mean, 20,000 plants just got nabbed in the hills between San Jose and Oakland (livermore), 80 million in pot plants (not to mention all the work that goes in to setting up a garden of that size) it was a HUGE operation and it's not the only one CURRENTLY operating. There are already serious suppliers of marijuana just in California, much less what is right across the border.

After power and rent and nutrients I still produce my buds for less than $3 per gram. Unless they start selling $100 ounces of fire then any business savvy grower will still be able to compete. Especially if they can produce at $2 per gram. I can't seem to find a way for these huge agri-biz corps to produce buds for less than $1 on the gram. Especially when I consider licensing, taxing, employee costs, insurance and lawyer costs, and then overhead. Consider an outdoor crop in California could easily be lost due to poor weather or pests. Massive indoor grows could also be subject to pests and disease as well as an increase in energy costs.

All the mom and pop need to do is produce meds at no more than $2 per gram and sell for $4 on the gram. That's a $120 per ounce cost to make a 100% profit on the investment. For the home grower just looking to offset their own costs though, this proposition is a no-brainer.

Are you joking? Cannabis can be produced for less then $.10 a gram outdoors including all overhead except for manicuring. Give me your "fire" clone and I can grow it outdoors easy if I wanted to.
I love when non agricultural people start spouting off about the price to produce Cannabis by the multi-tons, they have zero experience, and zero knowledge of how legal Cannabis will be produced. Hint; it will not be under lights....
And pests and diseases are only problems to the unprepared, I have used bio-controls for 35+ years, on massive scales, and it is not so hard to learn to do the same.

$120 an ounce to grow indoors under lights, what a joke...
I can understand why you are scared of legal Cannabis.

-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Marijuana is basically decriminalized for personal use in California and is considered a medicine.

This bill will change marijuana from a respectable medicine to a category of alcohol and cigarettes.

How is gov handling the control, tax, and regulation of cigarettes and alcohol?? What is the tax on cigarettes/alcohol compared to their cost to produce?? How many mom and pop tobacco farmers or alcohol distillers do you know?

How are those taxes benefiting those who are paying them?

How about the class action lawsuits? Being in Califorinia, everyone is sue happy and as soon as people start to smell a payday, the lawsuits will begin and who do you think is going to pay for that. The big factory owners?? or do you think those costs will be brought to the consumer?

Do not kid yourself, these are the realities of this passing prop 19.


Would it be better for all if it continued to be labeled as medicine?

I feel much better about the positivity and respect this label represents.
Medicine is not taxed in America and prescribed drugs are write offs.

So we can either:
A) get money back from the government for the medicine we buy
or
B)vote yes on prop 19 and demote our medicine to a vice that needs to be heavily taxed to discourage its use.


Why would you ever vote to tax something that is not already taxed?

One answer that I've heard is, "California needs the money".

FYI. California is the 8th largest economy in the world. We do not have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem..

Do you believe that the government will spend your earned money more wisely than you can?

Will your tax dollars benefit you better in the hands of the government than in your pocket?

This is about control, regulation and taxation just as the title suggests.

This has nothing to do with legalization.

25'ft, what a joke.

25'feet to grow a plant that is completely safe, even if you are the only one capable of supplying your loved ones??? This is going backwards from current California law.

In current system, the best product at the cheapest price is what will end up in the hands of the consumers.

In post prop 19 the gov will tell you who you are allowed to buy from and will forever increase the taxes regulations. This will increase the end cost while squeezing out the mom and pop farmers.

If you decide to buy/sell/trade your neighbor or local farmer who has not been "regulated" and don't have the right receipt you could face a $1000 fine and 6 months in jail....WHAT???

This will not be the last time a marijuana measure hits the ballot. How fast is the Medical Marijuana Movement Growing??

Is there any logical reason why it will slow down or go backwards??

All signs are pointing to an increase in awareness and benefits of medical marijuana and that it is here to stay.

We do not have to take the first peace of crap that made the ballots just because it says "marijuana" in it. We need to continue the GOOD fight and push for keeping the medicine label. With that we can push for not only a safe, tax free medicine but a safe, tax deductible medicine.



IF THIS RESONATES WITH YOU PLEASE SHARE

This is the kind of wishful thinking that allowed Cannabis to be illegal for 70 years.
The reason to include Big Government, Big Business, and Big Agri-Culture is easy, give them a piece of the pie and they will support Cannabis legalization forever.
And 215 ignores the vast majority of Cannabis users that just want to smoke recreationally, as well as Industrial hemp being allowed to be grown as could be under Prop 19.

Prop 19 is a forward move for Cannabis, paying and lying to get a doctors permission to use Cannabis for recreational use, or paying the present prices are what is backwards, wise up.

-SamS

 

[2Lazy]

Are you joking? Cannabis can be produced for less then $.10 a gram outdoors including all overhead except for manicuring. Give me your "fire" clone and I can grow it outdoors easy if I wanted to.
I love when non agricultural people start spouting off about the price to produce Cannabis by the multi-tons, they have zero experience, and zero knowledge of how legal Cannabis will be produced. Hint; it will not be under lights....
And pests and diseases are only problems to the unprepared, I have used bio-controls for 35+ years, on massive scales, and it is not so hard to learn to do the same.

$120 an ounce to grow indoors under lights, what a joke...
I can understand why you are scared of legal Cannabis.

-SamS

First of all, I happen to work seasonally for wine makers in Santa Cruz county and I have quite a bit of first hand experience working in an agricultural field. I am insulted by your assumption referring to me, in a growing forum nonetheless, that I am "non agricultural people."

Again, you also fail to acknowledge the fact that no where else in business is what you are espousing a trend. Nike doesn't sell cheaper sneakers. Chevys were just as crappy and priced the same when they were made in Mexico. I'm REALLY trying to think of some precedent to back up the claims that these large corps are going to drive down the price of their own products. I think it is asinine, and it's not a well thought through idea, I'm sorry.

I don't have any fire clone. I don't even know why you would ask for it. Maybe you misunderstood... Maybe the joke went over my head.

Also, in Oakland, I dunno if you've ever been there, but there isn't a whole lot of farm land in the Bay Area. Those 4 licenses that have been secured are for warehouse style grows. You don't need me telling you how greenhouses work...

$.10 per gram doesn't strike me as a commercial operation, more like a bare minimum one, complete with State Park land and a tent. Remember that these people are going to need a PR office, an HR office, an AR office, R&D, and of course the Manuel labor. Maybe you do have more experience picking harvests than I do, but when was the last time you had to interview with human resources for the R&D manager position? I'm guessing never. It's a brave new world, and in my mind I see a tremendous amount of overhead, even on the scale of hundreds of pounds per day. Each employee needs a salary, 401K, health insurance, and probably legal insurance as well, even for the trimmers. These guys are producing a seriously MASSIVE amount of bud, but there is also a seriously massive overhead as well, and I can only imagine you've minimized the operation to fit more closely to what you've worked with in the past. Based on my experience with the wine community I think that is a better framework for how it will all go down, just with a much larger legal budget.

When I consider soil treatments after harvest, along with everything else... I dunno man. I sure cannot get behind 10 cents per gram. I could meet you half way at 50 cents though, that would be low, but realistic for a large enough outdoor grow I suppose, even after trimming.

To claim that these outdoor crops will never lose a harvest is like BP claiming it will never spill more oil. It's going to happen. If you think that Cannabis farms outdoors on a huge scale won't compensate for that possible loss in the cost of product then I think you're dead wrong. It's just like clothing retailers rolling in their anticipated theft costs to their pricing.

I am not scared of legalizing cannabis. I am pro prop 19 and a registered California voter. I've been posting in this thread for quite some time now with this message. You probably misinterpreted something I wrote.

I'm saying that $120 per ounce is easily double profits for a home-based grower. I couldn't care less about people who want to keep making hundreds of thousands, if not millions, on bud yearly keeping their luxurious lifestyle, call it jealousy. I am talking about the people who can still make 40K a year with something I consider to be a hobby, even in a VERY competitive market place. With a real job and then that 40K to pay for the mortgage, the cars, the vacations, college tuitions... etc. Even at lower than market prices the regular guy with a green thumb can still retire early.

I do not think prices will drop to $120 on the ounce. $200 on the ounce, or maybe $150/ounce on the pound. To be perfectly open I think that is a very reasonable price without the "risk."

So, Sam, I think you misread what I said, you took me as a "no" voter and attacked me needlessly. You made assumptions, and you wrote me off. I am a little offended by your attitude towards me, your behavior as a moderator of a forum, and as a respected member of the community I serve. You, sir, are held to a higher standard than those of us who are subject to the ban hammer due to your "grandfathered" reputation. Presenting yourself as a respectable authority will go a long way, and dropping the "zero experience" "you're an idiot" talk would make your tone appear to match your age. IMO, from what I've read in these last few pages (my only contact with you every) I find you to sound no more civil or mature than the next person here, so I've addressed you in the manner I would anyone else.

 

[Silence]

Are you joking? Cannabis can be produced for less then $.10 a gram outdoors including all overhead except for manicuring. Give me your "fire" clone and I can grow it outdoors easy if I wanted to.
I love when non agricultural people start spouting off about the price to produce Cannabis by the multi-tons, they have zero experience, and zero knowledge of how legal Cannabis will be produced. Hint; it will not be under lights....
And pests and diseases are only problems to the unprepared, I have used bio-controls for 35+ years, on massive scales, and it is not so hard to learn to do the same.

$120 an ounce to grow indoors under lights, what a joke...
I can understand why you are scared of legal Cannabis.

-SamS

Well thats ok for you SamS as it suits your needs, for everyone else thats done all they can growing in indoor locations etc supporting their families and being persecuted for a plant like you once were.. its kinda a kick in the face dont ya think ? I'll quote Jack Herer "NO TO TAX" btw how did you get to being were you are with hortapharm etc? did ya win the lotto ?

good to see you look out for yourself yet again...

oh I forgot we are all gangsters if we don't go with this... what does that make you? the godfather?

 

[Silence]

Do you ever buy alcohol? Beer, wine, whatever? Is it Taxed and Regulated? Why do you buy it? Same with gasoline, clothing, processed food, and most of the items you buy for daily life. They are all taxed and regulated. Yet you want Cannabis to be special and have no regulation? Why don't you fight to get everything unregulated? Or spend the time and money to place a better Prop before the voters? I guess you just don't care that much?

-SamS

lol its all about care is it? you gonna give the stuff you produce for health benefits for free? or you gonna make plenty off it all?

 

[zen_trikester]

First post here!

I just want to say that I am very impressed that so many influential people including Gypsy, and Tom, and Sam and others are speaking out in support of this. This is a necessary step in the right direction for CA and for the planet. Just the fact that it disallows the local government to do the DEA's dirty work and also disallows testing at the workplace as we know it (by requiring employers to now prove intoxication) is enough to get me on board. It allows the communities to deal with it on their own levels, including hemp if they choose. It clearly defines a personal grow and a reasonable one that is based on square footage instead of plant limits. It allows for a very reasonable personal amount and talks about how to weigh product without adding the dirt or calling your half dozen bonzai moms "a street value of $10,000". This bill just sets so much right. As said it isn't perfect, but it is true legalization and really the only ones who get the shaft are the gangs, the dealers, and commercial growers who don't want to go legit. For the people, and for the the community, this is very fair. I think the small farmers will end up doing real well too, not in Oakland it seems, but the smaller communities that currently survive on MJ, should be good to go. I'm buying the first cali grown hemp shirt I can get my hands on!!!!

Trike

 

[Silence]

It's a pleasure to see the Administration of this site come forward on this issue. I am a California native and long time Nor/Cal grower and mark me down for a fat YES on prop 19 come November. Great to see my peers in guys like Humboldtlocal have come forward as well.

For those worried about us poor (I can't rub two nickles together currently for eg lol) Nor/Cal growers and what will happen to us if this passes, don't be. The old-timers are a crafty bunch as a whole and always will be.

There are exceptions and I can appreciate their stance, but,,, It seems to be mostly unimaginative newcomers who are worried about making their nut coming out against this. To those of you who are thinking of voting no,,, just look who you are officially aligning yourselves with, and wise-up. -T

Sorry I cannot agree at all with this.. it seems to suit the needs of people who can gain directly from it.. those that have made plenty and have plenty to gain seem in favor. I'm sure you are one that has made plenty and will con't to do so. its the Tax aspect that gets to me, and how it suits the government/cali economy

 

[markscastle]

Do you ever buy alcohol? Beer, wine, whatever? Is it Taxed and Regulated? Why do you buy it? Same with gasoline, clothing, processed food, and most of the items you buy for daily life. They are all taxed and regulated. Yet you want Cannabis to be special and have no regulation? Why don't you fight to get everything unregulated? Or spend the time and money to place a better Prop before the voters? I guess you just don't care that much?

-SamS

Oh I care that`s why I`m voicing my opinion here and that is doing as much as I can at the moment except voting a big fat No in November and asking all my family and friends to do the same come November! I am also involved with MMRP to get a new law on the Ballot that I feel is better! So yes I do care and am doing what I can to see that prop 19 doesn`t pass! And we will win!

 

[2Lazy]

I'm really looking forward to Napa Valley Wineries being able to legally sell Norcal local buds.

I think many parallels can be made between these two appreciations, and that they are a natural fit. I think this offers an opportunity for licensing, and then sub-licensing which will make for an interesting landscape. Much like how the Gov't contracts BAE to build an upgrade for assault vehicles, and then BAE sub-contracts engineers to design the project.

Given this being a regular practice of licensing in business this should transpose into the new cannabis culture. The sub-contracting of locally approved commercial production will allow for co-ops to stay open, with several growers working together to provide the commercial requirements of a given winery. The term "co-op" already has an appeal for many Californians who frequent Farmer's Markets; informing the purchaser that they are funding the local community. Not everyone is as enlightened, but I think the wine community will see the impact of keeping their spending local and supporting smaller businesses the moment they taste some blackberry kush while sipping on some Nor-Cal Pinot Noir. Paradise under a sunset.

With this specific kind of retail, at an establishment already licensed for alcohol serving, I think it makes perfect sense to tax Cannabis as they would wine or tobacco (like a cigar). This is a regular procedure for these kinds of retailers (CRV anyone?) and will go smoothly for them. The money collected will be used to fund cannabis research and probably anti-cannabis education of youth (just like with cigarettes now).

Shit, they tax your income anyway. Then they ding you for another 9% on your spendings with sales tax. Don't forget about the property tax on all those homes and property... I think everyone in California is well aware that gov't spending has gotten out of control with what they take from us already not being enough. We've know for 50 years when we were building the UC system and had our own space program while they were cutting taxes to get elected. Between the energy scandal and Grey Davis and the latest promotional bureaucracy I can hardly remember a time when California wasn't screwed (whether the Actor they elected let them know it or not). Sure, we have a good couple of years every now and then... but when was the last "Golden Decade?"

Somehow, this state always pulls through though. We make a truck load of money anyway and we have lots of millionaires and the infrastructure to be crazy productive. Passing this proposition will make an impact on the deficit issues and that should be important to even non-smoking Californians who would like for us pot heads to "foot the bill" on a couple of things in exchange for the ability to use it recreationally and become pretty much the only place on God's Green Earth where it can be that way.

Think about that. The only place on the whole planet where it is 100% completely legal to grow, purchase, and use marijuana. Not decriminalized. As legal as waking up in the afternoon.

It's huge! Amsterdam is close... but they won't be as free as we can be. With the potential for a lower cost of buds then that makes the tax on the sale a wash, and look at what we are getting in return. Think big people. Think REALLY big.

 

[markscastle]

This is the kind of wishful thinking that allowed Cannabis to be illegal for 70 years.
The reason to include Big Government, Big Business, and Big Agri-Culture is easy, give them a piece of the pie and they will support Cannabis legalization forever.
And 215 ignores the vast majority of Cannabis users that just want to smoke recreationally, as well as Industrial hemp being allowed to be grown as could be under Prop 19.

Prop 19 is a forward move for Cannabis, paying and lying to get a doctors permission to use Cannabis for recreational use, or paying the present prices are what is backwards, wise up.

-SamS

Yep Sam admits prop 19 is about Big money, Big Goverment,Big Business, and Big Agriculture! It sure isn`t about us little people! and it sure isn`t for us little people! So please do wise up!

 

[markscastle]

I'm really looking forward to Napa Valley Wineries being able to legally sell Norcal local buds.

I think many parallels can be made between these two appreciations, and that they are a natural fit. I think this offers an opportunity for licensing, and then sub-licensing which will make for an interesting landscape. Much like how the Gov't contracts BAE to build an upgrade for assault vehicles, and then BAE sub-contracts engineers to design the project.

Given this being a regular practice of licensing in business this should transpose into the new cannabis culture. The sub-contracting of locally approved commercial production will allow for co-ops to stay open, with several growers working together to provide the commercial requirements of a given winery. The term "co-op" already has an appeal for many Californians who frequent Farmer's Markets; informing the purchaser that they are funding the local community. Not everyone is as enlightened, but I think the wine community will see the impact of keeping their spending local and supporting smaller businesses the moment they taste some blackberry kush while sipping on some Nor-Cal Pinot Noir. Paradise under a sunset.

With this specific kind of retail, at an establishment already licensed for alcohol serving, I think it makes perfect sense to tax Cannabis as they would wine or tobacco (like a cigar). This is a regular procedure for these kinds of retailers (CRV anyone?) and will go smoothly for them. The money collected will be used to fund cannabis research and probably anti-cannabis education of youth (just like with cigarettes now).

Shit, they tax your income anyway. Then they ding you for another 9% on your spendings with sales tax. Don't forget about the property tax on all those multi-million dollar homes, or your lean to... I think everyone in California is well aware that gov't spending has gotten out of control with what they take from us already no being enough. They've know for 50 years when we were building the UC system and had our own space program while cutting taxes. Between the energy scandal and Grey Davis and the latest promotional bureaucracy I can hardly remember a time when California wasn't screwed (whether the Actor they elected let them know it or not). Sure, we have a good couple of years every now and then... but when was the last "Golden Decade?"

Somehow, this state always pulls through though. We make a truck load of money anyway and we have lots of millionaires and the infrastructure to be crazy productive. Passing this proposition will make an impact on the deficit issues and that should be important to even non-smoking Californians who would like for us pot heads to "foot the bill" on a couple of things in exchange for the ability to use it recreationally and become pretty much the only place on God's Green Earth where it can be that way.

Think about that. The only place on the whole planet where it is 100% completely legal to grow, purchase, and use marijuana. Not decriminalized. As legal as waking up in the afternoon.

It's huge! Amsterdam is close... but they won't be as free as we can be. With the potential for a lower cost of buds then that makes the tax on the sale a wash, and look at what we are getting in return. Think big people. Think REALLY big.

Yeh think big bucks for the rich and no rights for the little guy who will be paying the taxes on this stuff! Think cheep azz comercial grown weed that won`t be worth waking up to and storm troupers after our youth to lock up like criminals for smoking a little reefer! Nice picture eh? Don`t be fooled into voting for prop 19 ! It`s trash!

 

[Babbabud]

Right now I plant as many tomatoes in my yard as I want and no one ever says a word to me.... besides ..." cool ... you sure have a lot of tomatoes." "Yup Im going to can those and the wild blackberries and whenever I see my friends Ill give them a jar. I know how much they enjoy them "

 

[2Lazy]

Yeh think big bucks for the rich and no rights for the little guy who will be paying the taxes on this stuff! Think cheep azz comercial grown weed that won`t be worth waking up to and storm troupers after our youth to lock up like criminals for smoking a little reefer! Nice picture eh? Don`t be fooled into voting for prop 19 ! It`s trash!

On what planet?

Yeah, there is Budweiser, there is Coors. But then there's all the micro-breweries that somehow manage to stay in business. There is Safeway and Albertson's... ER... Lucky... And there are still local Farmer's Markets.

Don't underestimate the demand for awesome hydro or organic even when cheaper alternatives are available. The demand is still there for other products which carry parallels with cannabis, like wine and beer and produce and even dairy.

Happy Cows man, Happy cows. Make happy mushrooms

The picture you paint is hardly different from the Mexican Cartels kidnapping children and beheading entire families. Like we are living in such a Utopian society already... I don't imagine Storm Troopers slamming down doors to pick up kids. I imagine that it will be no different than it is today. Smoking as a minor is still a misdemeanor, and the officer has to see you doing it. There isn't a weed breathalizer or something dude, and if the young adult is wise they won't partake in the presence or possible sight of an officer. Just as they would need to today, be careful if you're going to break the law. Even as an Adult in California the only cop I'll be able to light up in front of is my own brother at our parents' house for a holiday or at one of our own homes.

And as I stated earlier, the anticipated drop in costs should compensate for the increased legal tax. The end consumer pays the same or less while it's the growers who are actually getting the shaft on their profits in 2012 when compared to 2010.

19 is not trash. 19 is the best chance this state/country/world has had at legal cannabis for 60 years. Time to end the madness and let people get an idea of what is to come, even if there are rules.

Gasp! Rules! ***stomps feet and cries***

I think of it kind of like a provisional drivers license for a 16 year old. For the first 6 months or whatever a driver can't drive after midnight, or with passengers, without consequence.

If we, the consumers, can prove we are responsible smokers (and not their worst fears of wild sex mongering polytheists) then I think all the language is present to relax the law onto the right level at a later date. Failing to pass this law now is going to be a HUGE setback. Look at what the killing of the gay marriage bill did to that effort in Ca. To think we can vote against this and they will give us something better is a childish notion. You don't get to shake your head at a vanilla cone because you wanted chocolate. Be realistic, ice cream is delicious, and this proposition is the shiznitobamsnipsnapsam even if it could be more free.

 

[hogg]

No Vote = Greedy jerks willing to let the rest of us go to jail period.

 

[dagnabit]

Oh I care that`s why I`m voicing my opinion here and that is doing as much as I can at the moment except voting a big fat No in November and asking all my family and friends to do the same come November! I am also involved with MMRP to get a new law on the Ballot that I feel is better! So yes I do care and am doing what I can to see that prop 19 doesn`t pass! And we will win!

why do you not want me and a million other adults to be allowed to grow and smoke in the privacy of our own homes?

why would you want to keep us criminals?

 

[markscastle]

No Vote = Greedy jerks willing to let the rest of us go to jail period.

Vote Yes = Greedy Jerks who are willing to see our youth go to jail so they don`t!

 

[Kwazee Wabbit]

Well, there you have it. The ICMAG endorsement of prop 19. Appears to be a well thought out response after much deliberation. The "YES" vote would be a smack-down to LEO and his establishment of Nazi-style tactics against lovers of nature's almost perfect herb.

A "NO" vote would put a big grin on LEO's ugly mug and continue to allow him to subject innocent, good-hearted citizens to his immoral atrocities.

The issues have been exposed in finite detail. The "NO" voters want to allow LEO his reign of terror on a peace loving people. Their lack of compassion and their greedy pursuits are exposed for all here to see.

A "YES" vote is the only way to bring some sanity to this world of greedy, insensative and arrogant thugs.

 

[bdakind]

So much ignorance, People are not going to jail in cali for personal use. I live in one of the most conservative cities in Cali and the cops are not doing anything to growers with 12 plants or under, neither are the sheriff departments. People in Cali have access and can grow personal smoke on more than 25' ft as is.

I think all in favor must not be from Cali and are ignorant to our current laws.