Growroom Electricity and Wiring

[TrueGangsta148]

Well, thats kinda what I was talking about with the 4 individual runs of #12 out of the timer.

Go with your second option you listed.

If you daisy chain all 4 receptacles/ballasts with one #12 then now you have 36A going down #12 romex which is only rated for 20A...

That wire will melt and catch fire before the end of your first light cycle. This is why I preach the right wire gauge for the right size breaker.

If your using a 40A Single Pole 120v breaker and a 40A timer you must run 8/2 copper romex with ground from the breaker to the timer. Then Cut a short piece of #8 black conductor and attach it to the load out of the timer. Then run 4 separate (I'll bend) 14/2 with ground romex cables out of the timer. All 4 black conductors of the #14's need to be wirenutted to that short piece of #8 coming off the load side of the timer.

Remember!!! When all 4 of those #14 meet at one place, you have 36A worth of current meeting. That is the point where you MUST have 40A rated wire. If you used a #14 pigtail to attach to the load out terminal of the timer and then wirenutted all 4 of the outgoing 14/2's to that, look out.... You now have 36A going down that short #14 pigtail that's attached to the timer "load out" lug. You WILL have a fire inside your timer enclosure before your done with your first light cycle.

Okay this totally makes sense about the first outlet in the series getting loaded up lots. Running multiple 1k's on 120v really adds the amps up quickly! right now i'm doing 6's, on 240, so very low amps will actually be used. i could still technically do the daisy chain if it was on a sub panel 20A breaker, since i'm using #12 its rated safe throughout, even with 4 lights only a total of less than 12 amps. Still to be safe, and also to save rewiring in the future for possible switch to 1k's i will do it the way you suggested so its less hassle. What aboute conduit for running these lines from timer to receptacles? is it not necissary if its stapled down good and not moving at all?

thanks so many times for your input.

also, for this space, i am very limited by available space, and will never need more than this simple mech timer and 2 600w lights. The panel will probably not be made now, and by the time i'm in a position to need that much power, i'll be doing a large scale medical grow and will just bring in an official electrician and put the bill on the dispens.

 

[PharmaCan]

Gangsta - About that sub-panel and the grounds. Inside the sub-panel you need a neutral bus bar and a ground bus bar and the neutral bus has to be isolated from the box and grounds. They sell a specialized bus bar for this. They're not expensive and just screw into your panel.

PC

 

[madpenguin]

The 40 amp timer, if you are talking about an Intermatic type, is a relay. There is no need for another one.

80% of the rated load is the maximum you want to draw for continuous use. 80% of a 40 amp circuit is 32 amps. The 35 amps you mentioned is the minimum you'd draw. You need to look at mfgr's rating to determine the exact draw, which is probably more than the math equation gives you. Regardless, you are over the limit; and limits are there for a reason.

Thank you PC. I really didn't want to come back in full force yet so I'm purposefully not correcting stuff like this... Mainly because it's all been said before.

 

[madpenguin]

Just added the NEC bit about using a 15 or 20 amp receptacle on a 30, 40 or 50A branch circuit.

It's above in post 861

 

[madpenguin]

What about conduit for running these lines from timer to receptacles? is it not necessary if its stapled down good and not moving at all?

It all boils down to protection. If the romex is "subject to damage" then you can't use it and you have to use conduit instead. Subject to damage occurs anytime the romex is not buried behind drywall or is up in the ceiling joists. If it's not in one of those two locations then you have to use conduit...

 

[TrueGangsta148]

O.k..... I found the NEC Article that says you can use a 20A receptacle on a 30 or 40A run.

You guys are still boned on the wire gauge but you can use a receptacle that has a rating lower than the branch circuit as long as the receptacle is rated for atleast 125 percent of the full load amperage of the luminaire.

Excellent and well worded. Now i could potentially run up to a 40 or 50A circuit, and run 8k on one circuit, since the lights are max 4.5-5(x1.25=6.25A) amps and the receptacles are 15A or 20A.

 

[PharmaCan]

Thank you PC. I really didn't want to come back in full force yet so I'm purposefully not correcting stuff like this... Mainly because it's all been said before.

After another 500 posts of answering the same question over and over again maybe you'll begin to understand the little tiff we had at the beginning of this thread. As you've obviously come to discover, qualifying every single statement becomes annoyingly redundant and one tends to cut to the chase and speak in limited context, even if it isn't necessarily so elaborated in their post. I hope you never have to go through the hassle of having some new member come on and try to prove their worth at your expense by parsing your posts and trying to make you look like a dumb shit.

PC

 

[madpenguin]

Awww... Your still mad at me? That sucks.

Yes, I get your point. But it was technically an inaccurate statement.

I love you even tho you don't like me...

Didn't mean to cost anyone face, was just trying to give accurate answers and it got a little out of hand. Sorry.

 

[madpenguin]

I've found only single plug 6-15r or 6-20r receptacles, if i want to put 2 or 3 or 4 in one metal box, where can i find a cover that will accomadate this odd config? i wish there were 2 plug receptacles, and i could put 4 outlets into 1 box with a standard cover. it wouldnt be reccomended for 1k's, but you could run 4x600w fine.

Try granger or a local electric supply house but even then they usually don't carry the duplex 240v receptacles. Buying them online ussually is your only sure bet.

I know where your coming from. It is quite the conundrum. People insist on only selling the simplex 240v receptacles but good luck on finding a 4 gang plate that is made for all simplex receptacles...

 

[madpenguin]

do i need to cut and measure small pieces of conduit (metal or plastic) to connect every box, or will it be alright if i use clamps at each junction box and just use conduit for the longer pieces of wire like the j from the timer to the top outlets (its not easy to curve stuff in that program but the yellow line would be curved not sharp 90 degrees)

You can do whatever you want. Most people around here just string up romex everywhere because it's the easiest route.

If you want to be anal, up to code and stand back and say "Thats a nice power board", you'll use EMT conduit everywhere along with individual THHN conductors (not stripped out of romex).

There is a right way and a hack way. Both ways will work. The hack way will look like shit and be less safe but take less time.

The right way will look slick, be up to code and be safer along with taking a tad more money and time to do.

The choice is yours. If you haven't read George Smilies Basement build, do so and look for his powerboard. The thing is really nice looking and will give him 0 trouble. If there is any trouble, EVERYTHING is contained in metal. That means his house will not burn down if anything on that powerboard fails. That's how you wire. Anything less and your just cutting corners.

 

[MBA]

O.k... Let me try to clarify all that. I answered a question about grounds below before I started typing this so read that really quick..

Ground out every thing metal and wirenut ALL grounds together. If you stop and think about that for just a second then that means you can really only do one thing with your grounds. Daisy chain them all together and every single metal box that they enter, you need to make a pigtail that attaches to the back of the box. Receptacles grounded, metal boxes grounded, metal casings to ballasts grounded, metal reflectors of lamps grounded.... Everything.

That main ground wire that you started with will lead back to the panel and terminate there. That's enough. If your house is properly grounded, your main disconnect will have a #4 bare running to the water meter and a #6 bare running outside to an 8' ground rod. Both of these ground wires will be attached to the neutral bus that is inside of your VERY FIRST disconnecting means. IE - Your Main Disconnect.

Yea... Ballasts in general should be grounded else you'll start getting some screwy shit happening, such as they wont fire properly. This really is noticeable with florescent ballasts in particular.

But everything metal is required to be ground by the NEC. This includes a metal plate cover attached to a plastic gang box. They are really getting strict. If it's metal, ground it! Period.

I'm FUCKED! I didn't pigtail my ground to any metal boxes! And are you saying you have to have a seperate ground going to your ballast and hood? Thats not grounded through the factory cord?

 

[madpenguin]

I'm FUCKED! I didn't pigtail my ground to any metal boxes! And are you saying you have to have a seperate ground going to your ballast and hood? Thats not grounded through the factory cord?

No, the factory cord will ground the ballast and thus the reflector, but ofcourse, your receptacle needs to be grounded that the ballast is plugged into.

As for the boxes... Just unscrew the receptacles and take those little plastic washers off of the two screws. That will allow the grounded yoke of the receptacle to make contact with the metal box, thus grounding the box. Again, if the receptacle isn't grounded itself then you wont be able to do this.

Ideally, you want to pigtail a separate ground to the back of the box with a green grounding screw. You can see the usually raised grounding hole that will accommodate a grounding screw.

 

[bipotato]

Stringing & stapling Romex is the easiest. And plenty fine for growrooms, unless you plan on driving a forklift near your electrical setup.

I chose PVC conduit for the most part because:

• It's purrty.
• I had to run cable underground.

 

[MBA]

No, the factory cord will ground the ballast and thus the reflector, but ofcourse, your receptacle needs to be grounded that the ballast is plugged into.

As for the boxes... Just unscrew the receptacles and take those little plastic washers off of the two screws. That will allow the grounded yoke of the receptacle to make contact with the metal box, thus grounding the box. Again, if the receptacle isn't grounded itself then you wont be able to do this.

Ideally, you want to pigtail a separate ground to the back of the box with a green grounding screw. You can see the usually raised grounding hole that will accommodate a grounding screw.

Thanks Mad, The recepticals are grounded, just not the handy boxes. I will remove the plastic washers. Thanks again

 

[extreegrowerrr]

madpeguin- you live in cali cause i would hire you in a jiffy. what about building panels...like nowirenutz.ca?

 

[madpenguin]

Excellent and well worded. Now i could potentially run up to a 40 or 50A circuit, and run 8k on one circuit, since the lights are max 4.5-5(x1.25=6.25A) amps and the receptacles are 15A or 20A.

Yes, but let me reiterate... If you use a 40A breaker/branch-circuit, then you must run #8awg the ENTIRE way. From receptacle to receptacle to receptacle.

You are still bound by standard ampacity tables, it's just that you are allowed to use a lower rating receptacle (as long as it's 125% of the full load current of the light that is plugged into it).

Seeing as how you can't attach #8 awg to a 20 or 15A receptacle, you can pigtail a piece of #12 to the incoming (and outgoing) #8. That #12 will attach to your 15A or 20A receptacle.

And, please try to always use #12 wire and not #14. Even if your only running a 600w on that one receptacle, you can buy some black/red/white/green THHN conductor for like... 20 cents a foot or something.

 

[madpenguin]

madpeguin- you live in cali cause i would hire you in a jiffy. what about building panels...like nowirenutz.ca?

Yea... I've seen his. Nice looking. Can't attest for what's on the inside tho. If someone takes the time to be anal with outside appearance, then I can only assume things are just as nice inside. But then again, one should NEVER assume anything.

I made a little 30A light controller in my sig.

I'll be posting a tutorial on flips as soon as I can.

I guess I could make a 50A portable powerbox with built-in overcurrent protection (breakers) and all that, just like people sell online at the hydro sites. Extremely easy to do and takes no more effort than what I basically put into my 30A light controller.

I still have a relay tutorial and a flip tutorial to complete before I take on any more projects... I also need to make a linkable index and get it posted on the first post of this thread.

I'm just feeling swamped here before I can start anything new. Who knew this would turn out to be a full time job...

 

[real ting]

madpenguin, just wanted to say: Your posts are some of the easiest to read and understand that I've seen on these forums when it comes to electricity. A lot of the time people use grammar that makes it tough to figure out what they are saying, and skip around a bit when giving tutorials. That's never the case with your posts. Thanks for what you're doing, it's a big help.

If you do a flip tutorial I'd be stoked, that's my next step as far as wiring goes. A lot of the flip tutorials have conflicting information, it can be hard to sort it out. I'd like to be able to build a clean flip that's safe, or not build one at all.

Question, would an old metal computer tower (w/ working exhaust fan) be a good 2 ballast box, or am I entering hack territory?

 

[madpenguin]

No... That might be something nice to use. Just make sure it's not flimsy and that you ground it out.

I made a 2 ballast 4 light flip and half assed tested it. It did one flip but the second flip wouldn't fire the original lights that I started with.

I may have been doing it too quick and the bulbs never had time to cool down... Dunno. It was a bullshit quick test tho. Need to try again.

Have all the build pics. Will be posting a flip tutorial soon.

 

[TrueGangsta148]

IF my house's main service is a "subpanel", and it has the ground and neutral bus's connected, what should i do? i wired up junction box before the dryer outlet, and then tested it, and the dryer still works so i know that junction box is legit. then i wired my light timer and outlets to the sub panel, and finally attached the leads to the sub panel. when i try to turn the breaker on in the main panel, it trips immediately. This happens when all of the breakers in the sub panel are off. After being stumped last night and stopping on it for the day, i decided to day to look in the main panel and my suspicions were correct. Could this ground/neutral shared bus in the main panel be causing my sub panel to not work?