Hydro Newb. Plz help

[dachieftan]

Hello, everybody! First of all I'd like to thank you for spending your time and efforts on my thread. I would prefer to know facts but opinions are welcome as well.

I have done a couple of organic crops in a secret jardin darkroom-150 but I want to upgrade to the 21st century and go hydro. I'm sick and tired of having to buy quality soil and amendments and then having to dispose of a mountain of used but not abused soil. Now don't get me wrong I will continue to have some headstash organic in the grow room as well, but using soil in a dozen plant + operation can be a Pain the AYass. I have read a lot of material and I have come to a dead end. I want to build the hydro system myself and I am conflicted between what type of system to build. I want something easy to build and productively efficient. If anyone can share their experience and insight in what has worked/failed for them I would be much obliged.

Currently My supplies are:
-1 4-tube T-5 flourescent
-2x 600w lumatek digital ballast
-1 Hydro farm Day star 6'' cool tube reflector
-1 600w 3k & 4k MH sunpulse bulbs (Guy @ the hydro store told me these were the best bulbs on the market and offered a money back guarantee)
-452CFM vortex fan
-can 33 scrubber
-sercret jardin DR-150. Anybody know of any decent priced Reverse Osmosis machines? on a sidenote: what would you hook the RO machine up to? Your tap?

The Gene pool ALL FEMENIsED:
10x Green house seeds Super Lemon Haze
10x Barney's farm L.S.D
5x Barney's farm Morning Glory
2x world of seeds landrace afghan kush
3x Dinafem free seeds Diesel, blue fruit, and white widow

The Room size is 25ftx25ft with carpet floors and white walls. I AM A ROOKIE TO HYDRO SO I WOULD APPRECIATE FEEDBACK ON WHAT HYDRO SYSTEM IS EASIEST TO BUILD, MAINTAIN, AND IS MOST EFFICIENT. I KNOW THAT IS ASKING ALOT BUT PLZ TRY YOUR BEST. CHEERS!!!

 

[dachieftan]

MEDIUM? NUTES?

MEDIUM? NUTES?

Okay I think I decided to make my own Ebb and Flow flood and drain table based off of Levitikuz DIY thread... http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=70262
I will be using a MB6012 60" x 36" x 12" mortar mixing tub for each table. Unless anyone has a better idea
The mortar mixing tubs can be found at http://www.maccourt.com/products/mortartubs.html
I will definitely invest the extra $20 to get the ebb and flow fittings instead of using 3/4'' barbs.
I'm thinking since the area of one tub is 15ft, then about 8-11 plants can fit on one table. Now the question is what MEDIUM and what Nutrients?

 

[OMountainMix]

WE use hydroton rocks and pure blend pro, but we are going to experiment with dynagrow this round. a 50 lb bag of rocks is about $30 and we just double rinse and bake to clean and sterilize them at the end of the run.

We bought all our gear and use a variety of water farms, individual and an 8 plant with res, and the white buckets with green tops that altgarden sells as a kit. Or at least they used to, I've just kept on buying individual hydrofarms along the way. We also have 4 aeroponic turbo gardens. Those and the 8 plant seem to give the best yield.

 

[dachieftan]

I read a few post by krusty arguing that hydroton rocks are not very efficient because the root system desires to anchor down but this medium has a tendency to shift. I will warn you that the man is very opinionated but straight to the point.... http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=1804 He strongly supports lavarocks as a medium instead and this seems pretty unorthodox to me. I'm relieved to have your suggestion of dyna-grow soiless medium. I am also flattered to have a member of BGC to post on my thread. Anybody else have any experience building their own hydro system? How bout links to Nutrient trial/errors?

 

[sneaky101]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=16813&pictureid=363043 Hey chief, I went dwc hydro after getting tired of all the bugs that soil brought with it. Thought about doing coco, but the thought of hand watering everyday is daunting to say the least, at least for me. At first I was using 5g buckets with a net pot that fit the top perfectly with hydroton as the media. This is soooo much easier than soil too. Just fill it up with water and set the ppm/ph and your off. I had a bigger space last grow and had about 5 dwc with about 5 soil then I moved to an apt (yuck!) and had to downsize to a small cab and went with a rubbermaid tote as a rez with only 2 plants in it. Here is a pic with 4 weeks down of flowering.



I was shocked how fast they grow in veg. What would normally take 2+ months to grow up now takes less than 1 month and is probably a little bigger. Anyway, I just got done with a bowl and am rambling....good luck with your ebb and flow. Very interested in seeing how it turns out for you.

 

[sneaky101]

Oh yeah, these are a couple of pics of the last run. This is one plant in the 5g bucket.

 

[dachieftan]

WOW! kudos on the warhead nugs brother.Yeah I thought about DWC especially after seeing blazeoneup's thread http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=26343
BUt I like to keep things simple. I prefer not to have to buy individual air stones, net pots, and buckets. Dealing with soil, I never encountered root rot so I don't know what to look for besides luke warm water temperatures. On what I have read, there isn't that much of a discrepancy between the amount of volume that a DWC vs. a Flood and Drain table. It seems to have paid off for you though. I think I might use DWC for mothers/clones though. Anybody specifically have experience with a flood and drain table or experience with building one? Any nutrient suggestions?

 

[Craven_au]

I would pull up that carpet and lay some pond or pool lining.

 

[Metalhead419]

Nice, those are some biggens! I personally get the best results in an Ebb and Grow bucket system. Its pretty idiot proof. I had a hard time getting the waterfarm 8 pack thing dialed in. Right out of the box it was a joke but they can work very well once modified and dialed in.
For sure in theory hydroton sucks for the roots, but my roots are nice and white and healthy so it must not work to bad. Lava rock, or silica rock would be better though, as long as your table and back are strong enough to hold the weight, as rocks are much heavier than expanded clay balls.

 

[dachieftan]

Thanks for the tidbit craven but the house is a rental. Would the advantages of pulling up the carpet outweigh the cost of getting it redone without the landlord knowing in your opinion?

 

[dachieftan]

Hey metalhead. yeah those mortar mixing boxes have to be special ordered through LOWES. unregistered gift card makes that no problem. Yeah the bucket system itself seems easy enough in theory... I'm just not trying to buy a controller and setting up a timer to the controller seems difficult. Let me show you what i mean....http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=92963
That is a very good point you bring up about the lava rocks being too heavy for a PVC table. I will either buy a pre-made collapsable shelf or sawhorse to support the table, or I might have to build a table using plywood (would be a last resort because I don't have an electric saw).

 

[dachieftan]

Anybody got any advice?

Anybody got any advice?

Any advice concerning nutrients or flood and drain tables?

 

[Herb Green]

dachieftan
Go for the hydroton its simple,basic and no issues with PH.

I gotta say though I experimented with coco and was kinda impressed.
You could do a coco drip on a timer/drain to waste system.Drippers go on for just the right amount of time to saturate the pot and not to much run off.Whatever run off there is could run into the tray on a slight angle to a drainhole in it that drains into a bucket below.All you do is dump any small remnants in the bucket out.
No hand watering needed,just adjust the timer as the plant grows.
If your used to soil its an easy transition.Root rot is not really an issue if watered correctly.Yields are supposed to be good and word is coco is pretty forgiving also. Check out the coco forum here on IC.

Take a look at Smart Pots.... Good with coco.

I usually run GH but I experimented with Botanicare for the grow cycle and was surprised at how healthy they were.

Grow on!
Herb

 

[High Country]

I would just buy the ebb/flow trays, they have the right fittings and are ready to go. All you need is a big res, water heater for the res and a small water pump and a timer for lights and pump,

And other things.

As for nutes I start clones at 1.5 EC, and they survive, might be different for you.

 

[Rednick]

Buckets all the way dude, makes it easier to run a multiflow system or central res.
My sig has mine if you want to see what I am talking about.

Also in my sig is a place to get the float switches cheap, already comes as a unit with instructions, all you do is get a 5-gal bucket and put the holes where you want the switches.

If you decide to go buckets, hit me up, I will then take the time to write out a detailed description of how I made mine. Just haven't had a real reason to take the time. Was just going to wait till I build the other one, and document that.

Filling a tray with Hydroton and setting above a res, is by far the easiest and IDIOT proof (just uses a lot of extra Hydroton vs. buckets). I do that when I have friends who need something set and forget. Ofcourse I feel my buckets are set and forget, but I have a little more experience than most my friends.

I love Hydroton, and love the fact that it is REUSABLE. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle.

Peace.

p.s. I have been seeing some impressive results with coco, will probably try my hand at that one day.

 

[OMountainMix]

I would also check out Teresa's threads about her trees. She's a BGC member, too, fyi, but too busy working her tree magic to stop in much. She is my hero. We are actually looking at moving to doing what she does. My husband is DYING to move into the DWC arena. We both feel that is where it's at. Teresa's thread literally shows step-by-step how to build your own bucket systems, put them together and set up a massive grow. This includes lots and lots of pictures, so it's really a school lesson for doing this kind of grow. REally impressive.

I don't have any problems with roots in our hydroton rocks. The roots make giant rootballs and we grow large large former moms. The kind you can cut 50 or so clones off, reveg for a week or two and get 4+ ounces off two months later. The only thing is timing it so they are big, but not too big.

You need a roll of the nice reflective plastic. I think it's 9 mm. It will prvent any damage to your carpet. It would be best to also put it up on the walls, but as it's a rental, it's up to you how much you intend to do to modify the room.

We've been very happy with Pure Blend Pro, but the allure of trying something with the long history and good rep of dyna gro coupled with the possibility of getting nutes at a regular nursery are tempting us. Sorry I can't say how it will turn out, but my hubby is really experienced with various nutes and he wouldn't switch us for no reason or without being sure that the ladies would stay happy. Maybe he'll chime in and add more to this thread.

 

[dachieftan]

water pump question

water pump question

Okay Red convinced me to do buckets instead. The advantage of buckets is they require a lot less medium so I think buckets are a little more efficient than a table. I found this design for a controller that seems a lot easier and cheaper than ogre's style... I'm pretty sure the top most hose is the one that feeds into the grower buckets. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the picture is incorrect having the hose that connects to the controller's pump connect back to the resevoir.


"1. Reservoir timer kicks in
2. Reservoir pump turns on
3. Controller bucket fills and float valve shuts off
4. Reservoir pump is set so that it runs just a little longer than it actually takes to fill up all the buckets, the excess time ensures full buckets and the excess water just drains back to the reservoir via the anti-siphon tube.
5. Reservoir timer and pump shuts off

(Flood time determined by you, most people flood for 15mins)

6. Controller timer kicks in
7. Controller pump turns on and drains all buckets
8. Controller timer is set so that it runs just a little longer than necessary to drain all planter+controller bucket, the excess time ensures all buckets are empty and a sump or direct drive pump(one that can run dry) is needed because it will drain all the buckets dry.
9. Controller timer and pump shuts off

I would suggest buying 2x24hr digital timers instead of the timers in the picture(no need to buy extra tabs). Also, Blinddate suggests Beckett brand pumps or a 1/6hp Little Giant sump with a level switch.

This method is a lot more foolproof than the relay+timer counterpart. There are some reports of people who have had faulty relays that resulted in over flooding, this method eliminates that issue by eliminating the relays and it is more cost effective."
-Apollo11

"When you consider the cost for a relay style controller bucket:
OGREseekers's style:
- 4 x float switches ($15 x 4 = $60)
- 2 x Relay ($20)
- 2 x Pump ($40)
- Spa timer ($75)
- Disconnects ($10)
- Housing ($10)
- Wire ($5)
- Sockets ($15)
TOTAL = $235 approx

Compared to Blinddate's design:

- 1 x direct drive pump ($40)
- 1 x Pump ($20)
- 1 x float valve ($10)
- 1 x Barbed Tee Connector($1) *for anti-siphon
- 2 x 24hr digital timer ($20)"
TOTAL = $91
numbers calculated by Apollo11
ogre's style: http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=92963

I also was concerned about water temps. Wouldn't a pump submerged in water heat up the water by the motor/electricity? If so, are there any water pumps that anybody knows of that can operate without being submerged under water? Could you plz provide a link. I was either thinking of making this set-up myself or buying a Green Tree multi-flow system. I'm going to compare and contrast the cost of purchasing this system vs. building it. For one, my local store does not sell this system so they would have to special order it which marks up the price. The local store has a 12 bucket ebb & grow system with a 55gal resevoir and controller for a ridiculous $1049.99! I wonder if I show them this website if they would hook me up with this better price... http://www.hydroponics.net/items/details/multiflow.asp
I will weigh my options and get back to yall on my estimates for cost to build either bucket system as oppose to buying one.

 

[dachieftan]

Thanks a lot for suggesting Teresa to me OMM.
That is so kick ass that you are married and yall are both in on it together! I bet it makes your marriage very interesting. Most couples in general should try the indoor cultivation. I bet it would test commitment b/c it takes a lot of that...HEHE
So Teresa uses DWC style correct?:
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=132491
And it is DWC b/c it uses the tubing to deliver water/bubbles by using gravity/pump instead of a bunch of individual airstones?

I don't know why but Mr. Jorge Cervantes doesn't give much props to DWC in his BIBLE. I saw Teresa's pix so I know it can be done very effectively. I read a thread about this guy called HAPS who made a hybrid of DWC/EBB and grow that he called "the rig".

Specs: Haps
System: "Big Rig" Tidal system, based on e&f. Buckets/dual floodlines
Space: 5x8ft
Light: 1000w HPS, 1000w MH?
Height flowered: 15-36in
Height finished: 4-6ft
Buckets: 13-?gal with 5in netpot lids?
Medium: Lava rock and hydroton mixed
Watering: 6 times a day 1hr flood times
Avg yield: 77g/bucket or 1000g
Rez size: 32+12gal
Rez change: 2 weeks
Rez temp: below 70
Rez aerated: Yes, all rezs and buckets have a dedicated airpump
Style: Trees+tomato cages on the three center buckets, zip tied to the lids
Strain: harem, blue nepalese, north indian hasplant, sour D and two sweet tooth
A/C: Central Air?
Dehumi: N
CO2: N

He completely wrapped insulation around every bucket,tubing, and resevoir to stave off warm temps. I might do that as well. He also had individual pumps/airstones for each bucket which I thought was silly but it seems to work for him.The only thing that concerns me about DWC is the water temps. I hear that on a large scale of a dozen or more buckets, many have to buy a water chiller to prevent warm water temps that cause root rot. Since I'm renting I am personally trying to keep electricity and supply cost low... If I had more experience, I would definitely try NFT or Aeroponics.Thanks for your guidance and time on a rookie like me. I appreciate your patience OMM

 

[Herb Green]

Hydro

Hydro

Okay Red convinced me to do buckets instead. The advantage of buckets is they require a lot less medium so I think buckets are a little more efficient than a table. I found this design for a controller that seems a lot easier and cheaper than ogre's style... I'm pretty sure the top most hose is the one that feeds into the grower buckets. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the picture is incorrect having the hose that connects to the controller's pump connect back to the resevoir.


"1. Reservoir timer kicks in
2. Reservoir pump turns on
3. Controller bucket fills and float valve shuts off
4. Reservoir pump is set so that it runs just a little longer than it actually takes to fill up all the buckets, the excess time ensures full buckets and the excess water just drains back to the reservoir via the anti-siphon tube.
5. Reservoir timer and pump shuts off

(Flood time determined by you, most people flood for 15mins)

6. Controller timer kicks in
7. Controller pump turns on and drains all buckets
8. Controller timer is set so that it runs just a little longer than necessary to drain all planter+controller bucket, the excess time ensures all buckets are empty and a sump or direct drive pump(one that can run dry) is needed because it will drain all the buckets dry.
9. Controller timer and pump shuts off

I would suggest buying 2x24hr digital timers instead of the timers in the picture(no need to buy extra tabs). Also, Blinddate suggests Beckett brand pumps or a 1/6hp Little Giant sump with a level switch.

This method is a lot more foolproof than the relay+timer counterpart. There are some reports of people who have had faulty relays that resulted in over flooding, this method eliminates that issue by eliminating the relays and it is more cost effective."
-Apollo11

"When you consider the cost for a relay style controller bucket:
OGREseekers's style:
- 4 x float switches ($15 x 4 = $60)
- 2 x Relay ($20)
- 2 x Pump ($40)
- Spa timer ($75)
- Disconnects ($10)
- Housing ($10)
- Wire ($5)
- Sockets ($15)
TOTAL = $235 approx

Compared to Blinddate's design:

- 1 x direct drive pump ($40)
- 1 x Pump ($20)
- 1 x float valve ($10)
- 1 x Barbed Tee Connector($1) *for anti-siphon
- 2 x 24hr digital timer ($20)"
TOTAL = $91
numbers calculated by Apollo11
ogre's style: http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=92963

I also was concerned about water temps. Wouldn't a pump submerged in water heat up the water by the motor/electricity? If so, are there any water pumps that anybody knows of that can operate without being submerged under water? Could you plz provide a link. I was either thinking of making this set-up myself or buying a Green Tree multi-flow system. I'm going to compare and contrast the cost of purchasing this system vs. building it. For one, my local store does not sell this system so they would have to special order it which marks up the price. The local store has a 12 bucket ebb & grow system with a 55gal resevoir and controller for a ridiculous $1049.99! I wonder if I show them this website if they would hook me up with this better price... http://www.hydroponics.net/items/details/multiflow.asp

dachieftan
Try this for a dual purpose inline/external and submersible pump in one with no real heat to speak of....http://www.pondusa.com/pumpssup.htm

YES show the website price to your hydro shop and I can almost guarantee they'll move on the price! Its the difference of a sale or no sale.

If your going buckets it might be a good idea to look into RDWC vs DWC.The Recirculating part has more benefits.
It can be done for a low cost also.
With RDWC it can be done using less Hydroton. Less Hydroton = less medium.
Cleaning a larger amount of Hydroton is not very fun.
Essentially the water takes on a large role as the medium.
RDWC gives stellar results!!

Any which way you go its a good idea to use a pond liner in a apartment.Calculate the amount of water your running and use the appropriate size pond liner and sidewalls then your good to go.
Just my
Grow on!
Herb

 

[abuldur]

hi,

I would stay away from submersible pumps and only use air pumps.
For security,cost and disolved oxygene in your sollution issues.

You can still do DWC bucket style.This is how:
http://www.generalhydroponics.com/genhydro_US/instructions/WF_Upgrade_instructions.pdf
Works wonders only have to keep water level in your controller and the rest runs smoothly.No ph variations.

peace
ps_check the post by grandmagreenma top fed bukets.
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=171517