Organics and PH-Lets settle this once and for all?

[mrwags]

can we finally settle this for once and for all?

As long as there is more than one person left on earth no you cannot and will not settle it EVER.

Some things in life cannot be taught without experience. Considering EVERY garden is different and in different locations using different water different nutes different user input different lighting this question will forever go untold.

IMHO it is up to YOU THE GROWER to take what you find on these pages and use it as it fit's YOU.

What works for one might not and will not work for the other. Watch you girls they will tell you what they want that in itself is your answer and it's right b4 your very eyes.


My Penny
Mr.Wags

 

[guest2012y]

i threw away all my ph meters. ph is for chem guys. not needed in a well balanced organic soil with all the goodies. i used to have greenhouses and i experimented alot. your results may vary. if in doubt then ph your solution. different strokes for different folks.

I used a meter for about 15 years thinking I needed to.

Now it just sits in a box....pulled it out the other day and told it I'm sorry,then stuck it right back in the box.

 

[CT Guy]

I agree with you guys for the most part about good soil not needing to be checked. I think taking a look at your water source once to know if it is severely off like xmobotx would be a good idea, especially if your plants are suffering.

Other than that, I think Mr. Wags put it best....

 

[CT Guy]

Oh, and I've never checked my pH on my municipal water source, but do use humic acid and seaweed when I water (I rarely just put straight water on my veggies, and they get rain water outdoors in Seattle). And I also am blessed with an unlimited source of good compost, Alaska Humus, and other bio-amendments through my work, so I don't have to worry about my soil mix.

 

[Frozenguy]

I've done hydro using NFT, DWC, and coco. I've used soil with synthetic nutes and organic nutes. When using organic nutes, as long as i used enough dolomite lime in my mix, and ewc in my mix/teas, I never had a ph problem. I used to use my ph pen religiously with all other mediums. Organic soil mixes done properly will not require the use of a pen.

The ph is still very important, you just put the work into the hands of millions in your soil, basically... and the lime..

 

[xmobotx]

thanks! CTguy

Anyway, if grows keep failing, exploring all avenues is wise. What if they keep succeeding though?

yeah, no problems, no tests -we know what our inputs have been and they tend to buffer each other out

 

[EatMoGrass]

I threw away both of my Milwaukee brand ph meters well over a year ago. I only really used them on my EZ-Clone but they lie and do nothing but cause problems. I occasionally check the TDS of my ro water and the spring water I blend with it. As long as my ro water is about 5 ppm and I add enough spring water to bring it up to 40-100ppm then I have no problems without ever checking the PH.

 

[grapeman]

50/50?

Where you getting that number? I have never really came out of a post on organics feeling I need to get some PH drops or a meter.

I have a meter, but I don't use it. What's the point

Water from the tap is 6.8 then it's down 6.3 when I bubble. Gonna give it some kelp.... ohh shit the PH is 10.5 (seriously) then I use some protekt and something else I cant remember and it was 4.9. Then run it through my soil and get what PH?

If the soil mix is sound, with enough diversity then PH shouldn't need to be checked.

I made my first soil mix recently that is water only. Couple people telling me to take the batteries out of my meter.

Nope, I had to check everything out at first. After 2 days of wringing my hands I gave up on the PH. Now I just throw water at em and they are the healthiest plants I've grown.

Water going in, depending on any additives has PH'd at 4.8-10.5 over the last couple weeks.

Smiley

George? Is that you? You looked so much smarter in your other photo.

 

[grapeman]

as i read and read and read, i get about a 50/50 consensus on whether PH is an issue when it comes to organic soils and nutrient mixes. can we finally settle this for once and for all?

I'm on the side of the 50%.

 

[fishwater]

I have finally found that it depends on your water ph. LC's mix is great, has everything you need for mid range 5.5-8 ph water. You will have to adjust your mix for water as high as mine 9ph... I started mixing just one half cup of lime in the mix and it works great...

The only given is that everyones water is different. You need to adjust your mix to it, or fuck with the ph of your water... simple as that.

 

[Dignan]

Measuring pH is like measuring oxygen levels in the air we breathe: if the levels are off enough that you need to measure them, your body is going to tell you anyway.

Your plants will tell you. If you put down the pH meter and listen to 'em!

 

[rasputin]

For me, pH has never been an issue, luckily. I've used water that's ranged from 6.0 to well over 8 and still no worries. A friend uses the pH strips for his own use and I borrowed a couple just for shits & giggles to test my teas. Wow! Surprising numbers to say the least yet my ladies look lovely.

I chalk it up simply doing my homework reading this forum. A lot of very generous & intelligent souls have done most of the heavy lifting for us. Standing on their shoulders let me see far & wide and without it I'd likely be banging my head against the wall wondering what went wrong or, worse - like a friend of mine did, given up.

Those of you who can use your tap are fortunate. To me, that's a luxury. My tap's pH is OK to use, it's no better or worse than the jugs I pick up but it has flouride and chlorine in it. If only it didn't, I'd be golden. Never mind the fact flouride is in our water, which local residents don't seem too mad about given I've told my neighbors & relatives that live in the city and gotten, at best, a shrug of the shoulders and the question "What's wrong with flouride?"

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Oh, and I've never checked my pH on my municipal water source, but do use humic acid and seaweed when I water (I rarely just put straight water on my veggies, and they get rain water outdoors in Seattle). And I also am blessed with an unlimited source of good compost, Alaska Humus, and other bio-amendments through my work, so I don't have to worry about my soil mix.

Pretty much the same deal here.

Plus the city water is from direct snow melt up in the Mt. Hood National Forest and then flowing down to the Clackamas River. The water source was established and has been protected since the 1850's.

Pretty hard to beat good compost and pure water.................

CC

 

[VerdantGreen]

my water pH is around 9 so i adjust it before i water with citric acid. i dont care how many people tell me that it's not necessary, my plants look fantastic and i will continue to do it. i could stop using my tapwater but i suspect it has a good amount of cal and mg in it so adjusting the pH seems to give me the best of both worlds.

soil pH in nature has a big influence on the plants that will grow best, the pH of your water will influence the pH of the soil to a greater or lesser extent especially in a pot.

everyones situation is different, if your plants grow well with what you are or arent doing then carry on. if they are suffering then finding out the pH of your water should be something you check. you are the only one growing in your unique set of circumstances and inputs and letting others tell you not to do something just because they dont have to do it is silly because they will be likely growing in a whole different set of circumstances. there is no rule in organics to say that you cant measure and adjust pH.

imo

VG.

 

[VerdantGreen]

carl carlson has an interesting thread about pH and alkalinity and the difference between them. apparently it is high alkalinity that affects soil pH more than the pH.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=169662

im guessing that my water, coming from a chalk/limestone aquifer, has a high alkalinity

 

[ixnay007]

All I remember is that Tom Hill measures his PH.. and he grows some monstrous outdoor organic plants, so it certainly doesn't seem to cause harm.

 

[mad librettist]

carl carlson has an interesting thread about pH and alkalinity and the difference between them. apparently it is high alkalinity that affects soil pH more than the pH.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=169662

im guessing that my water, coming from a chalk/limestone aquifer, has a high alkalinity

VG, you are the one who made me think about this hard, and stop being a pH denier, which didn't even square with my concept of the science.

I believe you have a simple pollution issue in a sense, and either the citric acid or something else you do or both is allowing you to operate successfully nonetheless.



We should listen hard when VG speaks folks. Ok, disagree on the theory if you want to, but you better believe the observations at least. And if your situation is like his, start by imitating VG and modify from that starting point.

 

[intotheunknown]

wow i really did not expect this many responses, and i really appreciate all of them greatly, tons of great information posted here already. lets keep this one going...

so i did go out and spend a ridiculous amount on a ph pen, i realized as stated before. knowing is better than not. and paying for it is just something that sometimes needs to be done.

 

[mad librettist]

lol

 

[Microbeman]

pH troubles usually indicate a need for more organic matter inputs. Many farmers chase the pH issue with ongoing inputs of lime but I've never heard of anyone curing it this way. I've watered often with teas etc. with very acid or alkaline pH readings but it is the pH of the soil (organic matter) which stabalizes. If my water source had a weird pH, I might consider adjusting it.
[generally in soil higher bacteria=higher pH; higher fungi=lower pH]
I test the pH of soil by mixing the soil with distilled water, allowing to sit, then stir, then measure.