TC2010: Good for CA, bad for growers?

[rdy]

So there's quite an uproar in a very narrow interest group about the legalization initiative- the growers.

On the one hand, the 5x5/1oz limit seems draconian to growers, and some fear that smoking near a minor will lead to jail time.

On the other hand, people who responsibly consume cannabis will no longer be arrested and go to jail.

It seems that the vast majority of the illegal and future "legal" smoking population do not need more than an ounce at a time and will not grow more than one plant at a time, if they grew at all. So it would follow that this initiative would benefit adults when the bottom line is that they can smoke pot legally and walk around without fear and paranoia.

There's talk of the gang of four in Oakland, who want to monopolize the industry. Talk of county governments having the power to allow and regulate cannabis transactions. Perhaps the initiative is intentionally murky about some details, for if it was crystal clear, it might not have the support it does today. If the bill said "cannabis will have no restrictions whatsoever, anything can do whatever they want with it" would it have the same support it does today? Probably not.

I agree that cannabis should be legal as lettuce, but many people don't who are also the people that support TC2010 for adults. I see the initiative as an opportunity to pass, and if it passes, then people can smoke pot, go to the beach or whatever it is they like to do, and be completely stress-free about being out and about and high. That's a win, any way I look at it.

If not now, when? Who's going to organize enough people for another initiative, who's going to put the time, money, and resources towards grassroots movements like Richard Lee did?

Baby steps people, baby steps.

Now, I welcome comments about important details that I overlooked. I didn't get into enforcement details because its an unknown consequence that's not significant enough to snuff out the gains (imo).

 

[Zen Master]

I think the founders of commercial medi pot and these 4 you reference want it legalized because it means dollars... lots of em...

5x5? I have three times that space in just lettuce to support just my own family's consumption.

I like herb, I like different kinds of herb, one full season summer plant is bigger than 5x5, now throw in the fact I want 5 different kinds of herb available at any given time....

This bill is meant to allow people who want to grow and use pot to do so, but not on a daily or almost daily usage rate. I.E. its going to MAJORLY boost indirect spending at any retail location carrying cannabis, you run out of your one ounce, dont have another crop coming in soon, yet are jonesin for a joint with your morning coffee so you head to 7/11 for a pack of doobies.

Its all about the money, this ain't legalization.

 

[johnnyla]

so the price will drop 2-3 times and the demand will double so growers just need to double their crop.

this law doesn't affect medical marijuana growers and opens the door to commercial license grows. the only people against this are the ones making money off growing herb now. don't be selfish and try to sway people. the 5x5 argument is lame. that's plenty for the occasional or even daily smoker. i got 1lb outdoor in 3 months off that much space.

don't let greed keep it illegal. you can adapt your grow operation to change with the times, get a commercial license, or just grow medical.

i think the prohibitionists are trying to create infighting to defeat any legalization bill.

peace out.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

It seems that the vast majority of the illegal and future "legal" smoking population do not need more than an ounce at a time and will not grow more than one plant at a time, if they grew at all. So it would follow that this initiative would benefit adults when the bottom line is that they can smoke pot legally and walk around without fear and paranoia.

Wow.... you really have a lot to learn about being a patient.

Should it pass, it WILL take away the fear and allow people to discuss it openly. Definitely a "Good Thing"... but uhh.... the rest of it is going to cause more issues than it solves. Lots and LOTS of patients will suffer under this legislation.

 

[rdy]

Hydrosoil- I was referring to recreational smokers in the passage you quoted me in. I was under the impression that Prop 215 is not effected by TC2010 if passed?

 

[Rednick]

Hydrosoil- I was referring to recreational smokers in the passage you quoted me in. I was under the impression that Prop 215 is not effected by TC2010 if passed?

Just you wait!

 

[Bacchus]

For what?? It does NOT affect the Prop 215!!!

 

[BLUNToPOTomuss]

YOU STILL WONT BE ABLE TO SMOKE ON THE BEACH!!!!!

It specifically states in the privacy of your own home and away from all youths.

And also from what I understand it DOES NOT affect the ammoutn a patient can have, ONLY joe civilians.

I could be wrong though!

 

[planty]

Once you make one law and pass it through all you need to do is to make changes to that law to impose power on to the people. you can change the laws of man but not the laws of Jah!

 

[2Lazy]

25sqft is plenty for my girl and I, so long as it's a per person thing and not a per household thing. In a 25 sqft space I can run a single 1000w lamp and cover the entire thing, which keeps investment costs low. Once a person has an acceptable seed stock they can then start 5 plants every other week and place them directly into flowering. In a perpetual SOG style grow of 70 days 5 plants are removed every 2 weeks. Even if those 5 plants yield 7 to 10 grams that's still 1.5 ounces or so. Our consumption I consider to be high, 14 grams per week, but even then that leaves a few grams for her and I to put towards cooking or hash making.

So, for the personal user, 25 sqft is enough to smoke 3/4 of an ounce per week for the rest of their lives. Uh... yeah, that'd work for me.

Since two individuals live in the house we have the option to also run an outdoor grow during the summer times, with a little training I could run very vertical plants outdoors with a 2.5x2.5 foot print, allowing me to run four plants up to 10 feet tall, and pull upwards of 1lbs per plant. 4 pounds of doja! JEEEEZUZ. Even if I only get half that... 2 pounds is plenty of weed in addition to the perpetual grow, to offset time for a seed harvest, or for the generation of a large amount of hash.

Also, consider if you know 4 other growers. Perhaps the 4 of you can work in cooperation, each growing a different strain and providing cannabis for free to each of the other growers. In this fashion each grower has access to different strains and no one gets left "dry."

So... considering the pro's and con's... Protection from the law for growing is the best thing to happen to cannabis users, and I don't care who you are. If you argue that fact you have either an agenda or you're an idiot.

It's bad for commercial growers, and drug dealers, because as a controlled substance harsh penalties are going to be in place for contributing to use by a minor. Also, they want to encourage home users to grow their own and stop relying on shady drug dealers, some of whom are supporting gang activities and other crime.

So get a grip on yourself. If you're a POS who has a warehouse full of plants to sell nugs to 17 year old kids then yeah... you're out of luck. But for the million or so casual cannabis users, or lovers of the herb, this legislation is fantastic.

 

[Travieso]

All your capital letter's turn people away vote YES come november.

Yeah once i saw all of those CAPS i didnt even bother to read it. LOL. I'm voting yes myself. I can easily crop 1-1.5 pounds in a 25 sq ft area which is plenty for me and theres really no reason for me to carry over an ounce in public anyways. Thats just me though. I'm also a med patient so if i needed to carry more i would still be able to since this law will not effect prop 215 patients. The people that dont want this to pass are the people that sell weed and are afraid the price of weed will drop and that they may be out of a job soon. you really cant blame them though if this is how they make a living. This Bill is good for some and bad for others. Its good for me!

 

[Speedcat]

One plant per person just means you will have to make all the more friends to enjoy different strains.

 

[rdy]

Imnotthatoneguy- you've shown everyone here what a fool you are- Bravo.

I read the bill in about 5 minutes, all "14" pages of it. It's on the TC2010 website. The only jail time it mentions is for people who give pot to minors. Really, that's it.

But go ahead and tell me, what else does it give jail time for? What specific acts are you talking about that will land myself and others in jail?

You don't know what you're talking about. You talk a lot of shit about a bill you haven't even read yourself, cause you assume its too complicated and full of lawyer speak. You're just parroting Dennis Peron. You're just like the average Rush Limbaugh listener. Maybe I'm glad you're voting No, cause you're just as big of an asshole as prohibitionists are.

 

[Travieso]

just hope you go around and ID everyone of your friends cause 6 months in jail and a 1000 dollar fine for smoking around or with anyone under 21......

LOL. you dont know how old your own friends are. quit selling and smoking with minors and you wont have to worry about jailtime.

 

[Bacchus]

I hope you are the first to catch a case and get sent to prison

You are the BIGGEST ASSHAT I have seen on here in a long time.

Richard might have written the proposal, but YOU wished medical patients prison time.

So go %$^#$ yourself scumbag!!!!!!!!

 

[Gdood9]

Richard Lee is a money grubbing asshole. I'm a grower and I really don't care if I lose my profits, I've got plenty of other shit I can do to make money, but this bill is not legalization. It's about who's gonna make the money. Go and actually read the bill and you will see how they are setting this up.

Think about this: You want to grow more than a 5x5 patch because that space is only big enough for 1 plant. 1 strain. 1 season. 1 whole year of that same strain. Not for me. Shit, I smoke nearly a pound every month and a half. So under the bill, in order to grow more I must get a commercial license, which is gonna cost more than a liquor license. Do you have anywhere from $50,000-150,000 that the license could possibly cost? Probably not. Who does? Big Corporations. Oaksterdam. That's who. Oh...and if you do decide to get all that money together, you will then be regulated by the state. Have fun with them up your ass. Then after you get your manufacturing license you're gonna have to get a commerce/trafficking license so you can sell everything. There's more loot. All of this is setup just so big corporations can come in right away and take advantage. All these permits will have to be renewed every two years most likely too. You all do realize that Richard Lee holds a monopoly over Oakland clubs right? Only his clubs are allowed in Oakland. Do some research.

I'm not even gonna dive into the $50/ounce tax. That's just ridiculous.

I keep hearing about smoking in public and how great it's gonna be...except it will still be illegal. Come on people, read the damn thing for yourself. http://www.taxcannabis.org/

Sure, to the occasional smoker, this bill is amazing. You'll be able to have your ounce and be happy. That's great for you but there are still a lot of other people out there that are getting fucked in this bill.

I AM 100% FOR CANNABIS LEGALIZATION, BUT I AM 100% AGAINST THIS BILL. I want full legalization, not decriminalization with the proceeds going to corporate america.

If you don't like the caps...oh well, shit happens.

Think about this everyone. Jack Herer (R.I.P) was and Dennis Peron, the father of the MMJ scene, is against this bill. Doesn't that mean anything to you. These are two people who are very passionate about cannabis is a very good way. Do you think they would be against it if this bill was meant to bring good?

Honestly I could keep going about how shitty this bill is but I'd rather go smoke.

 

[Travieso]

Richard Lee is a money grubbing asshole. I'm a grower and I really don't care if I lose my profits, I've got plenty of other shit I can do to make money, but this bill is not legalization. It's about who's gonna make the money. Go and actually read the bill and you will see how they are setting this up.

Think about this: You want to grow more than a 5x5 patch because that space is only big enough for 1 plant. 1 strain. 1 season. 1 whole year of that same strain. Not for me. Shit, I smoke nearly a pound every month and a half. So under the bill, in order to grow more I must get a commercial license, which is gonna cost more than a liquor license. Do you have anywhere from $50,000-150,000 that the license could possibly cost? Probably not. Who does? Big Corporations. Oaksterdam. That's who. Oh...and if you do decide to get all that money together, you will then be regulated by the state. Have fun with them up your ass. Then after you get your manufacturing license you're gonna have to get a commerce/trafficking license so you can sell everything. There's more loot. All of this is setup just so big corporations can come in right away and take advantage. All these permits will have to be renewed every two years most likely too. You all do realize that Richard Lee holds a monopoly over Oakland clubs right? Only his clubs are allowed in Oakland. Do some research.

I'm not even gonna dive into the $50/ounce tax. That's just ridiculous.

I keep hearing about smoking in public and how great it's gonna be...except it will still be illegal. Come on people, read the damn thing for yourself. http://www.taxcannabis.org/

Sure, to the occasional smoker, this bill is amazing. You'll be able to have your ounce and be happy. That's great for you but there are still a lot of other people out there that are getting fucked in this bill.

I AM 100% FOR CANNABIS LEGALIZATION, BUT I AM 100% AGAINST THIS BILL. I want full legalization, not decriminalization with the proceeds going to corporate america.

If you don't like the caps...oh well, shit happens.

Think about this everyone. Jack Herer (R.I.P) was and Dennis Peron, the father of the MMJ scene, is against this bill. Doesn't that mean anything to you. These are two people who are very passionate about cannabis is a very good way. Do you think they would be against it if this bill was meant to bring good?

Honestly I could keep going about how shitty this bill is but I'd rather go smoke.

If this Bill passes, you will still be able to grow more than one plant if you are a legal med patient!. Duh! what dont you understand about this? Just keep doin what your doin!

 

[rdy]

Thanks for your insight Gdood9.

It sounds like you're against the bill because there's no way that you'll be able to grow the amount you consume in a 5x5 space.

I think you summed it up very well here: 'Sure, to the occasional smoker, this bill is amazing. You'll be able to have your ounce and be happy. That's great for you but there are still a lot of other people out there that are getting fucked in this bill."


Perhaps the question is:

Does the pros of this bill for CA and its population (and occasional/moderate smokers) outweigh the cons of this bill for growers and heavy, non-medical smokers?

 

[rdy]

Also, another thing gdood9 said that I'd like to expand on:

"I want full legalization, not decriminalization with the proceeds going to corporate america."

First, this bill in my eyes, generally speaking, is legalization for adults. Yes, the amount they possess and grow is restricted, severely some say, but it is no longer illegal but instead regulated.

Second, full out legalization means that anybody can do whatever they want with as much pot as they want. 10 year olds can take bong hits, etc. This will NEVER happen. We live in America, dominated by 2 party system, the only reason things get done is because of compromise, which is what this bill does. Full out legalization will never happen, there will always be an age restriction for conscious altering substances.

TC2010 is the only bill you will have a chance to vote on that makes laws better for pot smokers, guaranteed. There is no other bill in the future.

 

[Gdood9]

Nevermind, I thought my last post got deleted.