Colorado House Bill 1284

[Greenmopho]

Wow, talk about an attack....do I sense a dispensary owner?!?!?

Not really, that is enough for people that want to grow their own medicine to take care of them selves. Once you get larger than that you are a commercial business. You know, like actually paying sales taxes, income taxes and things like that.

I agree, it should be run like a business, with all the licenses and protections a business come with. But does Walgreens have to manufacture their own medicine? Offer massages? Limit their sales to 5 patients? C'mon, this is just becoming a bit of a horse and pony show, and they expect all of us growers to just jump through their hoops while they pick up the cash that flies out of our pockets.

I'm not so sure that you are the only person that does that. In fact I know of a 50kw commercial operation that does exactly that. If you have a waiting line around the block, maybe you might consider helping more people out with your super duper unique sales program. There are lots of patients that would love for you to help them with no cost meds and $200 ounces.

Well now wait a minute. Aren't you saying that the best business model is for dispensary owners to pick up everything that random caregivers drag in the back door? How can a dispensary owner really know what's in those meds. We know you are growing the cleanest meds in the world and nobody else can do that. At least requiring dispensaries to grow their own would lend some accountability for what they are selling. BTW, not every operation smears their meds in pesticides, mildew and fungicides.. but many black market growers and caregivers do. Your horse is not as high as you think.


Yes it is. Your opinion does not grant permission to circumvent the law.


How many lawyers have told you that it's legal as a caregiver to sell to a dispensary? I have had 3 different lawyers tell me that it's not. Caregivers can sell to their designated patients. If you choose to sell to the black market, you risk a serious felony, but I suppose you are no stranger to that risk. And yes, as large commercial grows get ramped up, the prices will go down. Maybe enough so that black market and caregiver overages are not worth messing with.

BEASTERS, Oh Really ? LOL Do the patient really want boutique strains with super high THC% Or is it just the rec users driving that requirement? Think about that one for a second or two. Patients actually need higher CBD levels, want to get less high from the meds so they can function, AND THEY WANT TO PAY LESS.

As large commercial grows get ramped up, the price will go down, but so will the quality. I have a buddy who is a native american and grows organic tobacco, and I don't smoke tobacco, but I'll smoke that with him. Makes you realize how crappy mass produced tobacco is cigarettes is, its like a whole other world. If we will attain such a mass produced level of cannabis, quality will only go down, don't kid yourself. And the CBD argument is bullshit, Mexican rag weed is full of CBD and barely has any THC, are you telling us that this is what patients want? And yes, we should be helping patients, but IMHO, recretional users are what have brought us to this world, have studied the science and art of growing, and developed almost all the strains we know of today! Don't take that for granted. This is the problem with all you "fresh blooded" medical growers and dispensaries. You are quick to throw us old growers under the bus, label us felons for growing for years illegally, when we are the ones who have established EVERYTHING thus far, strains, knowledge, etc. And if you aren't for the full legalization movement, and are not spiritually connected to this plant, then you are just greedy and trying to take advantage of the current in-limbo laws that allow open trade, but street prices. We're like the soldiers on the front lines who come home and become disabled vets and are ignored by society. I am willing to adapt and deal with the coming changes, but it just seems like with every new change, there is a new department, a new middle man, and it keeps hitting most growers in the wallet while benefiting huge operations that don't focus on quality.

[I've got to quit reading this board before I've had my coffee. Must be a little edgy ]

Coffee=Bad
Ganja=Good

EAsy there, what did dank do to you to deserve such a response.. I will vouch for mr dank, his herb is probably in the top 4-5 that I've ever gotten to smoke, so it's no surprise here he's got a waiting list.. As someone in the industry, i agree regulation is needed, but not for small time ops, they're just getting buy as it is.. Let those fat cats who just recently decided they could make a living doing this pay. Not the pioneers who have suffered consequences for this plant ,that we truly believe in it's healing powers. I heartily disagree on most of your points,up until your last post..

Your coffee is making you edgy..

aren't you being a little hard on Mr. Dank, especially for your first post? there are plenty of other icmagers with similar views, such as myself, that you can back reference and slander with your elitist cliches, your pull-yourself-up-by-your-own-bootstraps mentality.

To illustrate the ignorance of your perspective, you suggest that "not the strongest or the best" survive, rather those who "can adapt to a changing environment." If you knew anything about Darwinism, more specifically social Darwinism, you would realize that the very definition of what is "strong" or "the best" is contextual and determined not by the tenacious adaptability that you urge Mr. Dank to adopt but by the random traits that become desirable in new environmental conditions. What Mr. Dank and a lot of others are getting at is that the new socio-legal environment created by hb1284 is one in which having access to obscene amounts of capital becomes the ONE AND ONLY desirable trait necessary for success. From a business perspective, the bill makes the potency of your product, its level of contamination, and the quality of your service irrelevant. That being said, it makes perfect sense for non-millionaires to discuss bringing their products back into the black market, where (unless you're part of a ruthless crime organization) you can't have trichome-less, moldy buds, a fuck-you attitude and still be successful just because you've got the cash...and I've got the feeling that not many Coloradans on these boards (or anywhere else) live in neighborhoods where you buy from the homies or die.

Okay, I can't say I know Dank, or did I know of him before coming to CO. But just from trying his strains that are around, and seeing his informed and educated contributions (and funny arguments with warrenedson), he is not your guy to attack, he is defending the cannabis plant itself and the people who have been protecting it thus far, and furthering the diversity and lineage of cannabis strains.

 

[P. Dondrub]

I'm not so sure that you are the only person that does that. In fact I know of a 50kw commercial operation that does exactly that. If you have a waiting line around the block, maybe you might consider helping more people out with your super duper unique sales program. There are lots of patients that would love for you to help them with no cost meds and $200 ounces.

Ever heard that saying, 'better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove any doubt.'???

I don't think there's ever been a more apt time to say it.

You're either a complete noob, or a pathological liar with statements like these.... whatever is, you have more to learn than to teach in this place.

 

[Mile Hi Dave]

...and oh yeah...some of us do have things set up as businesses...which this bill would close...

I guess you'll hire me to grow your weed (you wish)...
I find it really odd that his entire post was directed at Dank...noone else. He's probably one of the Cali "immigrants" that already fucked their state up, now they wanna fuck up ours too.

 

[Citizen80919]

EAsy there, what did dank do to you to deserve such a response..

Mr. Dank personally ? Nothing, I don't even know him. However when I came to this thread looking for the latest copy of the Bill, his internet persona called my meds "BEASTERS" filled with pesticides fungicides, mold, etc etc. Then he went on to explain how the law did not apply to him and the underground will rule the business. I didn't agree, so I responded.

Really, do you honestly agree with all of his statements that I quoted ?

I'm sure he is really a nice guy in person, but his internet persona is just a touch off center and whiney. But then again, I guess we all are to some degree.

I don't mean to be a dick, it's like bad genetics or something.

BTW, anybody have a link to the latest version in committee?

 

[Citizen80919]

You're either a complete noob, or a pathological liar with statements like these.... whatever is, you have more to learn than to teach in this place.

There aren't masses of patients that could benefit from no cost meds and $200 additional ounces ? I was saying if that model is working, why not expand and help more people. The cost of meds are way to high no matter how you look at it.

It doesn't take a million dollars to build out a grow that will conform to the legislation does it? Why does everybody think that only the "fat cats" can be compliant? Maybe I'm missing something somewhere.

 

[funkfingers]

well the 5000$ fee if you have more than 5 patients is pretty ridiculous.. I also feel that they're going to mess with everyone with zoning, how many people do you know that can afford to grow out of an agriculturally zoned building..Not everyone has the cash to get a warehouse..So people with money get richer and the poor still struggle to make ends meet. All these people with $ signs in their eyes are disgusting..

And yes I do agree with a lot that mr dank has to say..not all but most.

 

[Citizen80919]

Wow, talk about an attack....do I sense a dispensary owner?!?!?

No, you dont.

And the CBD argument is bullshit, Mexican rag weed is full of CBD and barely has any THC, are you telling us that this is what patients want? And yes, we should be helping patients, but IMHO, recretional users are what have brought us to this world, have studied the science and art of growing, and developed almost all the strains we know of today! Don't take that for granted.

I realize that this thread is about HB1284, but you seem to be lacking some information about this bullshit CBD stuff. Here is and article that took about 8 seconds to find via google.

http://blog.norml.org/2009/12/28/project-cbd-marijuana-specialists-plan-to-study-new-strains/

“CBD is demonstrated to antagonise some undesirable effects of THC including intoxication, sedation and tachycardia, while contributing analgesic, anti-emetic, and anti-carcinogenic properties in its own right. In modern clinical trials, this has permitted the administration of higher doses of THC, providing evidence for clinical efficacy and safety for cannabis based extracts in treatment of spasticity, central pain and lower urinary tract symptoms in multiple sclerosis, as well as sleep disturbances, peripheral neuropathic pain, brachial plexus avulsion symptoms, rheumatoid arthritis and intractable cancer pain. Prospects for future application of whole cannabis extracts in neuroprotection, drug dependency, and neoplastic disorders are further examined. The hypothesis that the combination of THC and CBD increases clinical efficacy while reducing adverse events is supported”

Most "Medical" Cannabis bred these days is geared toward Rec users. This breeds out the beneficial CBDs and maximizes the THC to get you super high. Since CBDs counteract the intoxication provided by the THC, it gets bred out. Rec world and Med world are two different arenas. Not everybody wants to get super high in the med world.

 

[Citizen80919]

well the 5000$ fee if you have more than 5 patients is pretty ridiculous.. I also feel that they're going to mess with everyone with zoning, how many people do you know that can afford to grow out of an agriculturally zoned building..Not everyone has the cash to get a warehouse..So people with money get richer and the poor still struggle to make ends meet. All these people with $ signs in their eyes are disgusting..

And yes I do agree with a lot that mr dank has to say..not all but most.

If you are running 16 patients you can run your whole 96 plant operation in under 1000sf warehouse ... You can easily find that for under 1k/mo.

Yep, the $5,000 is insane. Yep, the regulations are going to be a bitch. Yep, the state is making it much more difficult that it has to be. But you know what ? You could still pull it off.

48 flowering on 8-9 week strains means you are chopping 24 plants a month. almost one a day. If you suck and only got 2oz each, then you grossed 4,800 that month at a "BEASTERS" $200oz wholesale.

I think they give you a year to save up and pay your 5k. If you can't pay rent, insurance, electric, and nute on $4800/mo gross then maybe you shouldn't make the show.

 

[Greenmopho]

No, you dont.




I realize that this thread is about HB1284, but you seem to be lacking some information about this bullshit CBD stuff. Here is and article that took about 8 seconds to find via google.

http://blog.norml.org/2009/12/28/project-cbd-marijuana-specialists-plan-to-study-new-strains/

“CBD is demonstrated to antagonise some undesirable effects of THC including intoxication, sedation and tachycardia, while contributing analgesic, anti-emetic, and anti-carcinogenic properties in its own right. In modern clinical trials, this has permitted the administration of higher doses of THC, providing evidence for clinical efficacy and safety for cannabis based extracts in treatment of spasticity, central pain and lower urinary tract symptoms in multiple sclerosis, as well as sleep disturbances, peripheral neuropathic pain, brachial plexus avulsion symptoms, rheumatoid arthritis and intractable cancer pain. Prospects for future application of whole cannabis extracts in neuroprotection, drug dependency, and neoplastic disorders are further examined. The hypothesis that the combination of THC and CBD increases clinical efficacy while reducing adverse events is supported”

Most "Medical" Cannabis bred these days is geared toward Rec users. This breeds out the beneficial CBDs and maximizes the THC to get you super high. Since CBDs counteract the intoxication provided by the THC, it gets bred out in. Rec world and Med world are two different arenas. Not everybody wants to get super high in the med world.

I am quite aware of the properties of CBD, and I was not referring to it as bullshit. However, most dispensaries sell medical pot, claiming high CBD levels, when their weed just lacks THC or is premature....IS bullshit! Very little breeding has been done for CBD. I've only seen one strain, True Blue with supposedly high CBD. If you have ANY conventional strains going around from seed or clone, Diesels, Skunks, Purples, Sativas, whatever, you will have a low CBD, unless you screw with the light cycle and harvest premature. Only landrace indicas still have the Bd allele and that is bred out by seed companies.

So I'm guessing that you have a 50kW+ operation, growing landraces that no one around here has, and growing them indoors organically, better than anyone in Colorado. All while maintaining excellent patient relationships. Thats friggin amazing man! Congratulations! Otherwise, you have no argument. There really isn't much to the "med" world, sorry. Yes its about helping patients, but I see dispensaries all the time saying "Oh well, this strain was bred for curing menstrual cramps, and this one is for back aches, and this one is bred for being in a coma, and this one will help you take a shit", when these guys (seems like you included) have no idea what you are talking about. The strains you are recommending 1/2 the time are headtrip sativas or hybrids, known strains from breeders or elite cuttings...they were never bred for these ailments. Good luck realistically finding strains that are.


I support the medical movement, and want to help patients, but I am a strong proponent of forward movement to total legalization, both as my rights as a private citizen, and my natural love and adoration for the plant. Too many idiots are trying to make a buck off just "helping patients", when they know full legalization will drive them out of business, because they really don't know anything!

Here is a quote about CBD and breeders...

Well, right now there's simply no strains available where cbd will make up more than 2% of the overall cannabinoids (.5% of the flower weight) and no way of cultivating a noticeably higher cbd content. For the most part conversion of cbg into cbd is controlled by a single gene (Bd) which is codominant with the gene that converts cbg into thc. For example a plant that inherits a Bd gene from one parent and a Bt gene from the other will have roughly equal content of Cbd and Thc. However, if the plant is homozygous for Bd it will have very little thc and if its homozygous for Bt it will have very little Cbd.

While it is true that afghani landraces can have a high cbd content. Since having a Bd gene will replace half of the thc content with cbd seed companies always remove the Bd allele from the gene pool in order to maximize thc potency and stay competitive.

 

[Citizen80919]

So I'm guessing that you have a 50kW+ operation, growing landraces that no one around here has, and growing them indoors organically, better than anyone in Colorado. All while maintaining excellent patient relationships.

You are not a very good guesser. But we do as well as the next guy. Sometimes better.

 

[Greenmopho]

If you are running 16 patients you can run your whole 96 plant operation in under 1000sf warehouse ... You can easily find that for under 1k/mo.

Yep, the $5,000 is insane. Yep, the regulations are going to be a bitch. Yep, the state is making it much more difficult that it has to be. But you know what ? You could still pull it off.

48 flowering on 8-9 week strains means you are chopping 24 plants a month. almost one a day. If you suck and only got 2oz each, then you grossed 4,800 that month at a "BEASTERS" $200oz wholesale.

I think they give you a year to save up and pay your 5k. If you can't pay rent, insurance, electric, and nute on $4800/mo gross then maybe you shouldn't make the show.

Something I can agree with you on...Smaller warehouses are where its at I think. 3000 sq ft or more, and you need an army of employees that all have to know what they are doing and not rip you off, otherwise the bud will be shit. I think people should be allowed to do what they want in their own houses, but small warehouses are where the smart growers who want to produce top shelf for the industry should be considering. If I owned land out here in the mountains, I would look into putting a greenhouse or indoor grow facility on my land, something like a warehouse or a barn that I could convert, and have all the proper permits and licenses to do so, similar to a commercial farmer that lives on his land. That would be the ideal....until then, I commute twice per day to my grow.....talk about unsustainable...

 

[BigTop]

well the 5000$ fee if you have more than 5 patients is pretty ridiculous.. I also feel that they're going to mess with everyone with zoning, how many people do you know that can afford to grow out of an agriculturally zoned building..Not everyone has the cash to get a warehouse..So people with money get richer and the poor still struggle to make ends meet. All these people with $ signs in their eyes are disgusting..

And yes I do agree with a lot that mr dank has to say..not all but most.

Hate to say it, but the underlying economic system is simply permeating the formerly underground black market system of MMj... and yup, they/we, are all responsible for all of the dank & any of the existing expertise within this trade... and have a leg up on everyone else... in a number of ways.

The way it has always worked, above the board or below, is that those that are capable & wise enough succeed... and the other 85-95% don't... and they are the ones responsible for the majority of the beasters/chem-laden shit that we see in the MMC's.

Not saying that commercially produced weed isn't of a lesser grade than a fine head stash done by an experienced & accomplished grower, but the commercial growers are likely those with actual real life success and/or a really smooth talker... but those posers will fall to wayside over time... just another one of the 85-95%.

And a 5k fee to get licensed to bump 8 lights of fine grade head stash vs 2-4... well, one light over one crop justifies that 'expense'... or most any other one.

It does cost money, aka a business investment/start-up costs, to grow well... and I would much rather have the nugs of those that are properly aware, funded & working... even if it is trimmed in a mass production line by elves that can't see straight... or worse, a machine... and yet not properly dried/cured... still better than the 85-95% from start-up hacks w no experience other than what they read on the forums or at Borders...?

MMC's aren't all bad... though I do feel myself better... as do we all... ;-)

 

[P. Dondrub]

There aren't masses of patients that could benefit from no cost meds and $200 additional ounces ? I was saying if that model is working, why not expand and help more people. The cost of meds are way to high no matter how you look at it.

It doesn't take a million dollars to build out a grow that will conform to the legislation does it? Why does everybody think that only the "fat cats" can be compliant? Maybe I'm missing something somewhere.

I've helped out with about half a dozen of the large ops, and while they all have great intentions and cheap meds, never seen one with the goods.

Mr. Dank has medicinal quality, from what I've seen and tried. I've been to around 30 dispensaries in the metro area, frequented more than a dozen, and 99% of what is sold should not even be sold as medicine. The scene is f$***&ed here!

I'd bet my bottom dollar that whatever 'meds' you are referring just doesn't cut the cake either. At 50kw, I'm sure its 'usable' but when you are comparing it to one of the few legit people's meds in the entire state, it will definitely be 'undesirable.'

For people that have severe, chronic pain, I don't see how they get much benefit from the completely random quality/strain selection almost all dispensaries offer... if only they knew!

 

[MrDank]

Wow, i just read through this mess.

Citizen80919 is obviously somebody who knows me, otherwise he wouldn't have been such a pussy and re-registered under a new username. If I acted like that, I too would re-register under a new name with a fake zip code lol. I have a hunch who it is, and it's no surprise to me

and sorry if I seem like a whiney baby. Maybe it's because I am standing up for what i have been fighting for ever since I smoked my first joint. I am passionate about this plant on every level

Have a nice day

 

[Citizen80919]

Wow, i just read through this mess.

Citizen80919 is obviously somebody who knows me, otherwise he wouldn't have been such a pussy and re-registered under a new username. If I acted like that, I too would re-register under a new name with a fake zip code lol. I have a hunch who it is, and it's no surprise to me

and sorry if I seem like a whiney baby. Maybe it's because I am standing up for what i have been fighting for ever since I smoked my first joint. I am passionate about this plant on every level

Have a nice day

Don't go busting on your friends or associates, because seriously I have no idea of who you are outside of your internet persona. I'm just some random internet troll who was miffed by a good portion of your comments in this thread.

I'm not a pussy, I'm a dick. Some people might even go as far as thinking I'm an asshole, but regardless, there is a difference

 

[MrDank]

apparently i made a valid point by the looks of your reaction. Sucks, dont' it?

or were you offended when i said commercial "growers" like you need to step your game up?

i am gladly awaiting pics of your "medicine"

 

[WESTERNCOLORADO]

HEY GUS LOOK AT THIS ONE THOUGH!!!!!!!!

HEY GUS LOOK AT THIS ONE THOUGH!!!!!!!!

http://www.elections.colorado.gov/D...VM=1318&TitleVM=2009-2010 Title Board Filings

On top right of page click on Final Text #47.

Hopefully this passes and cancels the other one!!!!!!

 

[Citizen80919]

apparently i made a valid point by the looks of your reaction. Sucks, dont' it?

or were you offended when i said commercial "growers" like you need to step your game up?

i am gladly awaiting pics of your "medicine"

My responses don't make your comments valid... I thought I was pointing out how they were actually ~not~ valid. Did you even read them ?

I'll try to simplify for you:
*More than 5 patients /30 plants is no longer just taking care of a patient or 2, it's now a commercial enterprise. Even the Mary Kay lady working from her house has to register her business and she is netting much less that 30 plants.

*Other caregivers/commercial ops also provide no cost meds and discounted prices to their patients. And they aren't "BEASTERS"

*Your meds are probably good and clean, but you don't have an exclusive on that one.

*Not everybody ships mold, pesticides, fungicides etc in their meds and charges $65 an 1/8 for it.

*Back door purchases at dispensaries open the gateway for suspect or unknown quality meds.

*Growing for a long long time does not grant immunity from the law.

*Commercial sized grows will help lower the price for patients.

*BEASTERS are not the only thing to come out of grows other than yours.

*Withholding your backdoor sales to a dispensary will not kill the industry. There are 1000 others ready to jump into your slot.

*The business will be regulated. Conform or don't.

* HB 1284 goes too far, but what do you expect from the government.

* Cannabis that gets you super duper high may not always be the best meds for patients.

* People think you are a nice guy and are probably right, but your internet persona....

* I wasn't offended, and it doesn't suck, and my game does not need to be stepped up.

*I am a dick

I think that covered all the points...

I came looking for a link to the latest version of the bill, anybody got one ? The one on the co state site looks like the original version.

Thanks!

 

[orpanic]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!
Citizen80919, you don't even GROW HERB.

you say 'patients' don't want super high THC....are you a total dumbfuck, I guess so.. you DON'T KNOW SHIT. I'm a patient and you don't know what I need for my medication.

* If I'm in pain, yes I want a heavier indica with more CBD's.
* If I have nausea/no appetite in the morning, I want a sativa with "super" high THC.
So your pathetic wannabe know-it-all attitude doesn't fly here....do some research.

You smoke beaters, you don't even know it. STEP your game up.
Also, your "logic" above doesn't make sense. You must be new to the game. STEP UP!

 

[Citizen80919]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!
Citizen80919, you don't even GROW HERB.

you say 'patients' don't want super high THC....are you a total dumbfuck, I guess so.. you DON'T KNOW SHIT. I'm a patient and you don't know what I need for my medication.

* If I'm in pain, yes I want a heavier indica with more CBD's.
* If I have nausea/no appetite in the morning, I want a sativa with "super" high THC.
So your pathetic wannabe know-it-all attitude doesn't fly here....do some research.

You smoke beaters, you don't even know it. STEP your game up.
Also, your "logic" above doesn't make sense. You must be new to the game. STEP UP!

If you go back to the original post, I said that patients don't need all of the CBD's bred out of the plant in the interest of getting super high.

I'm pretty sure that I've a grown significant quantity of "herb". You base your statement on ???? the fact that since im a dick, I can't grow "herb" ?

I don't smoke "beaters" whatever that is. I am a patient too. I know what works and what doesn't. I think it would be great if breeders leaned toward higher CBDs instead of breeding them out.

What part of my logic doesn't make sense ?

If you want to debate, bring some content into the discussion besides "you don't know shit" and "you are a dumbfuck" and "pathetic wannabe know it all".

What are we freaking 12 years old here ? If you want to have a discussion feel free to contribute actual content. I've already openly stated that I'm a dick. Dumbfuck, pathetic, wannabe... not so much.