currently in the process of flushing rinsing..... ph is going UP!! ARRGGG!!!

[brobrobro]

hello

i used to water my plants with 7-7.5 ph (i know i know)

before flushing my runoff was 6.5-6.8 (while watering with 7-7.5 ph)


so i just put 75 liters of ph 6 water through my 5 gal pot.....


my runoffs actually going UP (7.4)!! why?! so bloody frustrating



any clue a whats going on?

 

[Hazy Lady]

Hiya bro³, not having a good week are you?, just keep flushing, it will come down, it may have loosened a lot of salts and they'll just take a little more flushing, it will get there

 

[benzo]

yeah.. keep on flushing it. you probably had a bunch of salt build up/ residue..

 

[rocky5]

hello mate i was having a bit of trouble with my ph going up and down
i would add water 2 mins later add ph down 2mins later have to add water
on and on it went, pen was just calibrated too.
i kept the pen switched on while doing this.
then i turned the pen off between each testing and bingo no probs.
might not be your problem but have a try may help?

 

[brobrobro]

yeah.. keep on flushing it. you probably had a bunch of salt build up/ residue..

understandable, thanks for the info mate.

Hiya bro³, not having a good week are you?, just keep flushing, it will come down, it may have loosened a lot of salts and they'll just take a little more flushing, it will get there

o hai, yeah nothing going right ay..

ok thats makes sense, is it normal to have to put 120lt through a 5 gal pot in my circumstances though, eh time will tell, at this rate its ganna take 10 plus hours to finish doing all my pots... sigh, back to work i go, thank you

 

[brobrobro]

hello mate i was having a bit of trouble with my ph going up and down
i would add water 2 mins later add ph down 2mins later have to add water
on and on it went, pen was just calibrated too.
i kept the pen switched on while doing this.
then i turned the pen off between each testing and bingo no probs.
might not be your problem but have a try may help?

hmm interesting, i will try this also

cheers mate

 

[brobrobro]

also thanks to who rep'd me with some advice regarding perliet and coco mix!

 

[brobrobro]

ok, ive been flushing for 3 hours now and the runoffs barely changed....
ugh, is this normal?

 

[etinarcadiaego]

hello

i used to water my plants with 7-7.5 ph (i know i know)

before flushing my runoff was 6.5-6.8 (while watering with 7-7.5 ph)


so i just put 75 liters of ph 6 water through my 5 gal pot.....


my runoffs actually going UP (7.4)!! why?! so bloody frustrating



any clue a whats going on?

I know why!

The answer isn't simple, but it goes a little something like this:

Any medium for plants roots has amounts of reserve and active acidity, this acidity is buffered by a number of things, all at the molecular level (Soil Chemistry) which have to do with organic reactions both within the medium and upon the introduction of a nutrient solution.

So what the hell does that mean for you?

Well it means that a chemical change is occurring within your medium, and that said change is altering the organic generation of ions, most of what I've read suggests that hydrogen ions play a large role in alkaline pH drift depending on your mix, but the cause can be difficult to ascertain without examining the mix in a lab.

I think in your case whatever you were doing BEFORE the flush was working well at the molecular level, now that you've flushed a lot of organic matter, microbes, ions, and enzymes out of your mix you've inadvertently altered it's chemical composition (read: Balance).

How can you fix it?

Well in the very short term, you can introduce some organic matter, anything to resume the beneficial chemical reactions that were occurring in your mix before, but determining what to add during a flush isn't always super easy.

ok, ive been flushing for 3 hours now and the runoffs barely changed....
ugh, is this normal?

Unfortunately flushing won't fix your problem in the long term, or even in the short term. In fact it will only delay the re-generation of the chemical reactions that buffered your pH before, so I would say "Yes, it's normal that continued flusing will result in continued pH issues".

It's still very possible for you to get runoff more in the target range, but the water solution still in your mix will change over time without the necessary ion exchange, I would think.


Are you growing in 100% coir with no amendments?

 

[brobrobro]

I know why!

The answer isn't simple, but it goes a little something like this:

Any medium for plants roots has amounts of reserve and active acidity, this acidity is buffered by a number of things, all at the molecular level (Soil Chemistry) which have to do with organic reactions both within the medium and upon the introduction of a nutrient solution.

So what the hell does that mean for you?

Well it means that a chemical change is occurring within your medium, and that said change is altering the organic generation of ions, most of what I've read suggests that hydrogen ions play a large role in alkaline pH drift depending on your mix, but the cause can be difficult to ascertain without examining the mix in a lab.

I think in your case whatever you were doing BEFORE the flush was working well at the molecular level, now that you've flushed a lot of organic matter, microbes, ions, and enzymes out of your mix you've inadvertently altered it's chemical composition (read: Balance).

How can you fix it?

Well in the very short term, you can introduce some organic matter, anything to resume the beneficial chemical reactions that were occurring in your mix before, but determining what to add during a flush isn't always super easy.




Unfortunately flushing won't fix your problem in the long term, or even in the short term. In fact it will only delay the re-generation of the chemical reactions that buffered your pH before, so I would say "Yes, it's normal that continued flusing will result in continued pH issues".

It's still very possible for you to get runoff more in the target range, but the water solution still in your mix will change over time without the necessary ion exchange, I would think.


Are you growing in 100% coir with no amendments?

woah, so much to take in!

so let me get this straight, even if i do get my ph levels to where i want them (if!) i will probably have ph problems in the futer?

i'll be honest with you, i have no idea what you mean with the whole ions and all that, this is my first grow lol.

im using coco 90% with 10% vermiculite

is there anyway you could dumb it all down? lol

thanks for the reply!

 

[brobrobro]

and what if i cant get the runoff ph to where i want it? keep watering with 6ph and hope for the best regardless of runoff?

will i potentially get root rot from flushing for 3-4 hours straight? 2-3 days in a row even?

 

[Hazy Lady]

I still believe this is because you never flushed the brick initially bro³, try a bucket of 5.00 and re-check the run-off, see if it adds up, ie comes out around 1.00 lower too, you are certain your pen is ok, calibrated?.

 

[benzo]

woah, so much to take in!

so let me get this straight, even if i do get my ph levels to where i want them (if!) i will probably have ph problems in the futer?

i'll be honest with you, i have no idea what you mean with the whole ions and all that, this is my first grow lol.

im using coco 90% with 10% vermiculite

is there anyway you could dumb it all down? lol

thanks for the reply!

What nutes were you feeding them? and how much?

 

[etinarcadiaego]

so let me get this straight, even if i do get my ph levels to where i want them (if!) i will probably have ph problems in the futer?

No, not necessarily.

Let me explain it simply. You are currently operating on the premise that flushing will resolve your current pH issues.

I'm asking you to consider that flushing is CAUSING your pH troubles.

and what if i cant get the runoff ph to where i want it? keep watering with 6ph and hope for the best regardless of runoff?

It depends. If you had a PPM meter that would be helpful, because you could know without question if you're flushing was still leaching nutrients, or if the runoff no longer contains measurable nutrient values.

When was your last feeding? What did you feed with?

How often do you water? How much runoff until you typically stop watering?

(I am going to watch a movie in about 2 minutes, but I'll try to reply in an hour or so)

 

[Duckmang]

Are the plants showing stress? If not, why are you concerned with the runoff, especially the ph? The only time I check runoff is when a plant is showing stress. Then I'm only looking to see if the ppm is way too high indicating a salt buildup. Ph isn't really a good indicator of anything in the runoff as stated before the processes of feeding the plants changes what goes in v/s what comes out.

 

[brobrobro]

What nutes were you feeding them? and how much?

none

please see this thread for details

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=168232

cheers

I still believe this is because you never flushed the brick initially bro³, try a bucket of 5.00 and re-check the run-off, see if it adds up, ie comes out around 1.00 lower too, you are certain your pen is ok, calibrated?.

yeah most probably ay, yea ill try that tomorrow, yeah the pens calibrated

No, not necessarily.

Let me explain it simply. You are currently operating on the premise that flushing will resolve your current pH issues.

I'm asking you to consider that flushing is CAUSING your pH troubles.



It depends. If you had a PPM meter that would be helpful, because you could know without question if you're flushing was still leaching nutrients, or if the runoff no longer contains measurable nutrient values.

When was your last feeding? What did you feed with?

How often do you water? How much runoff until you typically stop watering?

(I am going to watch a movie in about 2 minutes, but I'll try to reply in an hour or so)

oh ok,

this thread may give you some insight of what im going through

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=168232
yea thats cool man, thanks

 

[brobrobro]

Are the plants showing stress? If not, why are you concerned with the runoff, especially the ph? The only time I check runoff is when a plant is showing stress. Then I'm only looking to see if the ppm is way too high indicating a salt buildup. Ph isn't really a good indicator of anything in the runoff as stated before the processes of feeding the plants changes what goes in v/s what comes out.

hi,
yea ive got major problems

please see below

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=168232

 

[gaiusmarius]

from looking at both threads i'd say stop worrying about the run off ph, as you watered with high ph for 4 weeks it will take a while for the medium ph to lower again. best just water with ph 5.7 and ec 1.0 normally, your ph will adjust again over time. as long as nutrient solution going in is at the right ph the plants will be able to use it.

 

[brobrobro]

from looking at both threads i'd say stop worrying about the run off ph, as you watered with high ph for 4 weeks it will take a while for the medium ph to lower again. best just water with ph 5.7 and ec 1.0 normally, your ph will adjust again over time. as long as nutrient solution going in is at the right ph the plants will be able to use it.

hey, thanks for the reply.

should i try and give it another flush today? or like you said, it will fix itself over time?

is it bad to flush for 3-4 hours two days in a row?

 

[Dirtfinger]

Check the EC of your coco by floating it in enough water to cover and letting it sit for 15 minutes or so. If it's close to what your water is then consider it flushed.

I don't worry about the pH of my runoff, the medium controls that, all I worry about is the pH and EC of my nute solution going in.

In the event that you haven't picked up an EC meter yet, it sounds like you've flushed it more than enough. An EC meter isn't an absolute must, but you'll be happy you got one.