Roots Excelurator

[Cannoiseur]

Since the growth of roots and shoots is kept in even proportion by Auxins within the plant, shouldn't a root growth stimulator that's based on hormones slow the growth of herbaceous tissue? From what I understand Roots Excelurator basically just includes a bunch of hormones to stimulate the growth of roots on the plant, but what I know of plant physiology leads me to believe that this directly reduces the growth rate of the shoots.

Does anyone know exactly which hormones are included in this product?

 

[Bozo]

I think the reason we like it so much is altho there may be a stall ie waiting for tissue to catch up to root mass we dont like waiting and our plants are short lived

 

[grapeman]

Since the growth of roots and shoots is kept in even proportion by Auxins within the plant, shouldn't a root growth stimulator that's based on hormones slow the growth of herbaceous tissue? From what I understand Roots Excelurator basically just includes a bunch of hormones to stimulate the growth of roots on the plant, but what I know of plant physiology leads me to believe that this directly reduces the growth rate of the shoots.

Does anyone know exactly which hormones are included in this product?

Hmmm. I don't think so. While it may be natural for plants to display above ground what is happening under ground, developing early root growth can only pay dividends later in a plants life. Farmers try to do this all the time.

 

[Cannoiseur]

I'll be the first to admit that cultivating a healthy root system is bar-none the most important parameter for increasing the yield and quality of your final product... I just feel that artificially inoculating the plant with hormones it would normally produce internally must have some sort of drawback. I suppose it's just a tradeoff... while vegging takes longer because the plant puts more energy into producing roots, once you stop feeding the Excelurator during flower the plant must explode in growth as the hormonal signals reverse naturally.

so, longer veg, but incredible roots = enormous harvest. I guess you just have to choose if you prefer quick over quantity/ quality that takes some time

 

[BigTop]

RE has the primary ingredient of a bacterium... of some sort as they don't specifically label it... presumably for easier sales within certain markets...???

The slight amount of nutes provided are intended to boost the germ rate for those bacteria.

To the best of my knowledge, there are no root 'hormones', but that it encourages root growth by inoculation of a beneficial organism... a clean medium + root colonizing bene's = better potential for massive root growth. Even still, it is no guarantee.

Been using for better part of 2 years, so pretty sure this is correct info... not trying to mislead. Peace.

 

[Cannoiseur]

are you sure about that? everything I read says that it's NOT microbial like most rooting products....

 

[grapeman]

I suppose it's just a tradeoff... while vegging takes longer because the plant puts more energy into producing roots, once you stop feeding the Excelurator during flower the plant must explode in growth as the hormonal signals reverse naturally.

so, longer veg, but incredible roots = enormous harvest. I guess you just have to choose if you prefer quick over quantity/ quality that takes some time

No not really. The tradeoff is not quick over quantity/ quality.

The tradeoff is the cost of the product/benefit. Trying to say that those that have used the product somehow have quantity or quality issues is self serving to your argument and false on it's face. If you don't have the money for the product or you believe you grow just fine without using it no worries. But to say you grow more or better then others because you don't use the product is just plain stupid.

 

[Cannoiseur]

woah man simmer down, I said absolutely nothing of the sort
In no way whatsoever was I claiming that I grow better than people who use RE.... I'm not even sure where you're getting that from, or why you seem to be so pissed off....

Here is all I'm saying;
The plant can only produce so much biomass at once. The products you use can accelerate that to a point, but there is a maximum that can't be surpassed, this is just a fact of botany. leafs can only photosynthesize so much, no matter how much light/water/food you provide them.

Furthermore, plant growth is dictated by hormones. Indole-3-Acetic acid is the most common example of an Auxin produced internally by plants. If there are more shoot-specific auxins in the plant than Root-Auxins then the plant interprets that as an overabundance of leaf tissue and increases the growth of roots accordingly so as to keep everything in balance. Similarly, if there are more hormones coming from the root area of the plant then leaf growth is accelerated so that all the nutrients and water being taken up by the roots have a place to go and be utilized. My argument here is simple; if RE uses hormones to accelerate the growth of roots, then the growth rate of shoots must be slower. This is really the only option, because if they pumped in equal amounts of Root and Shoot specific hormones then their product would be completely neutral and thus useless.

 

[grapeman]

woah man simmer down, I said absolutely nothing of the sort
In no way whatsoever was I claiming that I grow better than people who use RE.... I'm not even sure where you're getting that from, or why you seem to be so pissed off....

Here is all I'm saying;
The plant can only produce so much biomass at once. The products you use can accelerate that to a point, but there is a maximum that can't be surpassed, this is just a fact of botany. leafs can only photosynthesize so much, no matter how much light/water/food you provide them.

Furthermore, plant growth is dictated by hormones. Indole-3-Acetic acid is the most common example of an Auxin produced internally by plants. If there are more shoot-specific auxins in the plant than Root-Auxins then the plant interprets that as an overabundance of leaf tissue and increases the growth of roots accordingly so as to keep everything in balance. Similarly, if there are more hormones coming from the root area of the plant then leaf growth is accelerated so that all the nutrients and water being taken up by the roots have a place to go and be utilized. My argument here is simple; if RE uses hormones to accelerate the growth of roots, then the growth rate of shoots must be slower. This is really the only option, because if they pumped in equal amounts of Root and Shoot specific hormones then their product would be completely neutral and thus useless.

Look - you said what you said. I quoted you. If you don't want to use RE then don't. Please don't lecture me. I assure you, I have forgotten more about farming/growing then you currently know, fron whatever books you may have read, including the use of growth hormones and auxins. I've farmed for a living for 40 years, from grapes and citrus to radishes and everything in between. I see an increased root mass with this product on this crop. As a farmer, I can tell you that healthy roots give you a higher likelihood of a bigger and better crop in the end. Is this product necessary? No.

But you are arguing with yourself.... use it or don't. I don't think anyone cares really.

And BTW, you can increase the use of light and accelerate growth. The secret is carbon.

 

[BigTop]

are you sure about that? everything I read says that it's NOT microbial like most rooting products....

Read a bit deeper into it... not on the label, nor in the early product lit... haven't looked at their stuff in over a year, so...?


I promise you... it is a bacterium... don't know the specific species.

It grows massive white colonies on my coir. It mucks up stagnant run-off if you let it sit long enough. It prevents any other microbes (the bad fungi for me) from inhabiting the rooting cubes... haven't had an issue w DO ever since using it 2 years ago.

Peace.

 

[Carboy]

Has anyone gotten an MSDS on this product?
I called Humboldt Wholesale and got put off that someone from H&G would get back to me "at his leisure". I guess he's still having his leisure because I haven't heard anything. Before I start riding their ass about it, I thought someone might have a copy to avoid the hassle.
Thanks ----------- CB

 

[humble1]

are you sure about that? everything I read says that it's NOT microbial like most rooting products....

can you cite these sources?
i've talked to the guys from humboldt wholesale, their US distributor, and it's mostly a combination of processed sea kelp and an anaerobic bacteria that is supposedly beneficial. unusual for a beneficial bacteria to be anaerobic, but that's what they claimed.
that's why the container is so light and air tight.
at least according to them.
i try to take anything from a distributor with a healthy dash of salt.
the sea kelp is going to provide some phyto-hormones, so that could be where you got the idea.

 

[BigTop]

can you cite these sources?
i've talked to the guys from humboldt wholesale, their US distributor, and it's mostly a combination of processed sea kelp and an anaerobic bacteria that is supposedly beneficial. unusual for a beneficial bacteria to be anaerobic, but that's what they claimed.
that's why the container is so light and air tight.
at least according to them.
i try to take anything from a distributor with a healthy dash of salt.
the sea kelp is going to provide some phyto-hormones, so that could be where you got the idea.

It's kinda funny that it is still so hard to find info on this product...???

Back when I looked at it, the hydro guy said the distributor guy said it was intentionally left off the label for sales entry...???


Humble1~ interesting on the anaerobic bit as I can personally attest that when added to a rez w aeration... super mucky w/in a day... had to swap out the rez & wash off the slimy gunk that was forming on everything. So, that would suggest the anaerobic thing to be incorrect (to me)...???



Wouldn't be surprised if is it just bacillus subtillis...?

 

[Cindiwaa]

And BTW, you can increase the use of light and accelerate growth. The secret is carbon.

Can you give u more detali on this?

Thanks!

 

[strictlybongz]

pretty sure hes just saying supplement CO2, to facilitate photosynthesis of increased light levels but i could be wrong

 

[mcattak]

used re for a couple years with great results after assuming there was nothing living in the bottle..I have been running with city water??? Still great results...Does this also mean putting sm-90 in the solution hurts the effectiveness??? Maybe my results are due to just the homones, probably get better results with better water

 

[humble1]

It's kinda funny that it is still so hard to find info on this product...???
Back when I looked at it, the hydro guy said the distributor guy said it was intentionally left off the label for sales entry...???

Not that unusual really. Trying to sell any products in the states with added bacteria is difficult, and trying to sell it in CA is that much more difficult. Regulations are a bitch.

Humble1~ interesting on the anaerobic bit as I can personally attest that when added to a rez w aeration... super mucky w/in a day... had to swap out the rez & wash off the slimy gunk that was forming on everything. So, that would suggest the anaerobic thing to be incorrect (to me)...???
Wouldn't be surprised if is it just bacillus subtillis...?

The reason why I don't think it's subtilis is twofold. Firstly, all the liquid products containing subtilis are much thicker and the app rate is higher than RE. This has to do with storing inactive bacteria in a slurry emulsion w/food (either milk or molasses).
Second is the container. H&G goes through a lot of trouble to keep light and air out, and given the first reasons outlined this further leads me to believe that the bacteria are anaerobic. Plus, the reps aren't totally ignorant and 'anaerobic' isn't exactly an award winning sales term.
As for the gunk in your reservoir if the bacteria start to spread through your rez and then find the conditions unhospitable they won't be able to reproduce and will die off. It's not just living bacteria that make up bio-film (or gunk, slime, etc...) but masses of dead bacteria with living bacteria on top, eating, breeding, and shitting everywhere.

 

[Cannoiseur]

Look - you said what you said. I quoted you. If you don't want to use RE then don't. Please don't lecture me. I assure you, I have forgotten more about farming/growing then you currently know, fron whatever books you may have read, including the use of growth hormones and auxins. I've farmed for a living for 40 years, from grapes and citrus to radishes and everything in between. I see an increased root mass with this product on this crop. As a farmer, I can tell you that healthy roots give you a higher likelihood of a bigger and better crop in the end. Is this product necessary? No.

But you are arguing with yourself.... use it or don't. I don't think anyone cares really.

And BTW, you can increase the use of light and accelerate growth. The secret is carbon.

Oh you're absolutely right. I was trying to have a civil discussion with members of this community, but thank heavens God Himself came down and smote us with his mighty, infallible wisdom



I'm glad you think nobody cares.... I guess all these responses in this thread just happened on accident.

I'm sorry that you think you're the only person who's ever grown a plant, but you're not, and I think you need to accept that other people might actually have some idea what they're talking about. of course this product gives you increased root mass, no fucking kidding. You're not even comprehending what I'm trying to say in this thread, so I'm done reiterating myself. It's a simple concept, but you're unwilling to listen. assuming this product is a hormone, I absolutely guarantee 100% that what I said is correct - you're not the only person here who knows what they're talking about. however, in the light that it might be a microbial product what I said is irrelevant.

and btw, increasing carbon can once again only get you so far. bump your room to 5000ppm CO2 with 2000ppm nutes and 1000W per square foot. I'll bet you a million bucks you won't see a linearly proportional increase in growth rates.


So now back to the CIVIL conversation I was attempting to have with the rest of you- I heard that it was a hormone from Big Mike's video at growers underground
http://www.growersunderground.com/blog/hydroponics-articles/bigmike-recommends-competitors-product

he blabs for about 5 minutes but if you go to the end he claims it's a hormone based product. However, once again that's a marketing driven website so who can say for sure? I've never seen an actual MSDS or ingredients list for this product so basically everything is hear-say at this point anyway.

 

[grapeman]

Can you give u more detali on this?

Thanks!

About 17 years ago in the LA Times, there was an article about using carbon on Cabbage. Believe it or not, the carbon used was methanol.
I found a study via google just now, but this is not the one I read and followed many years ago. Back then it was a study on cabbage done by the usda in Az. I read about it in the LA Times.

I tried it on an acre of table grapes. It works. BUT, it was too expensive for that crop. I've actually been thinking about trying it again on this crop. But here's the thing. All sprays must be done during FULL light intensity @high noon or so (means @ hour 5 of 12/12). To apply the product and not have the solar radiation to use the added carbon will BURN your plants.

I personally do not think anyone has tried it on MJ. I used a 50% Methanol/50% H2O spray with NO burn on grapes.

Here's a link I found.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/6842g770078367x2/fulltext.pdf

Not the same study I used to base my experiment on some 17 years ago but you'll get the point... which is this. Under extreme radiation, the plant cannot keep up with photosynthesis and other processes, and may wilt. Most used to think that adding water will help the plant but it is the addition of carbon (Methanol) on the leaves that gave an immediate boost of carbon to the plant that enabled the plant to use ALL the radiation it was receiving from the sun.

So there it is.

 

[grapeman]

and btw, increasing carbon can once again only get you so far. bump your room to 5000ppm CO2 with 2000ppm nutes and 1000W per square foot. I'll bet you a million bucks you won't see a linearly proportional increase in growth rates.

I said increase carbon... not carbon dioxide. You wanna argue some more for whatever reason? Like I said, you are arguing with yourself.
Do you need my bank account # to wire the $1,000,000.00?