Coco+perlite+chemical nutrients=microorganisms?

[hisser]

@GrnMtnGrwr

Think about this: smoking un-flushed organically grown bud vs. chemically grown ones. which would be safer?

Or drinking a cup of organic fert (without manure maybe) vs. drinking a cup of miracle gro enriched water, which one will be more terrible on your health?

Maybe its healthier for things around you too not just you as a person... just think about it yourself.

 

[hisser]

...micro-organisms... adding to media/nutrient solution...

beneficial?
or not?

measureable effect of application?
or not?

I'm wondering about this too.

 

[GrnMtnGrwr]

I don't know the answer to that question, but you said that organic is safer, so I asked proof. You just keep avoiding it. We're talking about the way we feed plants and how it affects the buds that we end up smoking. Not drinking plant food.

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

...micro-organisms... adding to media/nutrient solution...

beneficial?
or not?

measureable effect of application?
or not?

I would say yes, microbes can be helpful in a coco media. The role they play would be different. For the most part we are trying to enhance rootzone uptake with salt based nutes in coco. Do I know for sure?.. no. I'm making a move from aero to coco so I dont have practical experience, but as far as regular soil grows in a typical garden microlife has always worked for me.

Like I said before most growers that keep a detailed journal should be able to see an increase in yield. For the most part, when dialing in a grow I carefully weigh in. Simple as that. From my notes I can duplicate my formulas. So when I change something it should show a change.

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

Or drinking a cup of organic fert (without manure maybe) vs. drinking a cup of miracle gro enriched water, which one will be more terrible on your health?

Are you serious? Do you want an answer to your question of coco+perlite or are you here to argue chemical vs. organics?

 

[Rosy Cheeks]

relaxxxxxxxxx organic vs chem is more personal preference than anything.

Or ideology. People decide that 'organic' is good because it is natural, and that 'chemical' is bad because it's 'artificial', then invent pseudo-scientific/moral reasons to support that ideology.

why do people consume organic foods over non-organic? maybe its healthier, maybe it just makes them feel better, maybe its taste/flavor, etc, the list goes on. Kind of a gray area if you ask me, nothing worth getting heated over.

Agreed..

id personally rather consume products that are completely natural, meaning not altered by man, processed, and come directly from the earth without alteration the way "god," "nature" intended. cannabis is no exception.

I concur. I don't eat any type of processed food, and that includes cooked food, since enzymes, fibers and vitamins are destroyed in the process. So, no bread, no pasta, nor anything that goes into a frying pan, oven or micro-wave.

The reason for this is that 'processed' food is not natural to the human being, it is not what its digestive system or metabolism is supposed to deal with.

BUT... minerals occur both in organic molecules and in sodium-based form in nature, and is 'natural' to both humans and plants. Salt is a good example of that, necessary to the human metabolism, generally consumed non-organic. Rock phosphate is a good example for plants, non-organic and present in nature, a great nutrient source for plants.

Conclusion; both organic and non-organic (mineral-based) nutrients are 'natural' to plants and humans.

also, organically grown products are more eco-friendly and fall into the natural processes of bio-degradation faster/easier thereby eliminating waste and possible pollution (for the most part)

In industrial agriculture yes, where mineral-based nutrients can bump yields in short-term, but destroys the organic soil culture and therefore degrades the soil in a long term perspective.

But in a small size indoor coco cultivation, where no pesticides or other types of potentially dangerous products are used, and where the coco generally is flushed before end of use, there is no environmental advantage with using organic nutrients whatsoever.

 

[hisser]

Are you serious? Do you want an answer to your question of coco+perlite or are you here to argue chemical vs. organics?

I want an answer to the question I asked first nothing more, I don't care about chemicals vs. organics debates, especially in this thread, I was hoping that post will end the wandering-off-the-topic phase, but with some people it never ends .

I'll simply ignore any posts from now on.

 

[Castelvetro]

i used to think organic was perfect and didnt even need a flush, yet ive found in the organic section many growers flush much longer with organics then one week to ten days, some up to 2-3 weeks. reason for this is the fact that the salts are much harder to release from the plant or more so the medium. i think unless u have grown both u kind of have some bias n resistance to one or the other either from ignorance and fear, fear of it being so much more work then your willing to do. i would say properly grown non synthetic chem weed is the cleaneast in a hydro medium, i would probally also say that properly grown soil based weed is the strongest weed, simply becuase so much of life is alchemical and derived from bacterial n fungal transmutation if u will, theres just so much micro n macro nutes in a living dirt that i doubt a bottle of chems can match it. as for this thread, microorganisms are things talked about far to much, if u aint a hundo percent orgainc u aint got no microorganisms, and if your pouring chems on coco can i ask whats the dam point of a useless middleman your nutes will just kill anyways?

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

microorganisms are things talked about far to much, if u aint a hundo percent orgainc u aint got no microorganisms, and if your pouring chems on coco can i ask whats the dam point of a useless middleman your nutes will just kill anyways?

I disagree, there is microlife that can withstand the salt of a hydro environment. Just a guess here but the typical hydro solutions used are isotonic, and those are more likely to support microlife vs. distilled water.

The point of microlife is to enhance rootzone uptake in a medium like coco.

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

id personally rather consume products that are completely natural, meaning not altered by man, processed, and come directly from the earth without alteration the way "god," "nature" intended. cannabis is no exception.

Debatable.

MJ is typically dried and carefully cured. and then its smoked.. thats a processed product.

Again, cannabutter, oils and similar compounds have to be activated with heat to make it work.

Processing isn't exactly a bad thing. You can remove many unwanted compounds in a water cure and have a very clean and pure product.

 

[*mistress*]

Or ideology. People decide that 'organic' is good because it is natural, and that 'chemical' is bad because it's 'artificial', then invent pseudo-scientific/moral reasons to support that ideology.

I concur. I don't eat any type of processed food, and that includes cooked food, since enzymes, fibers and vitamins are destroyed in the process. So, no bread, no pasta, nor anything that goes into a frying pan, oven or micro-wave.

?
not step on grass when walking, too?

because can hear the grass screaming? coulnt resist...
but applaud for taking to that extreme & stick w/ it...

The reason for this is that 'processed' food is not natural to the human being, it is not what its digestive system or metabolism is supposed to deal with.

yes, off topic... but too much to ignore...
big jump to state that 'processed' food is not 'natural to the human being'...

seems 1st have to clearly define 'processed' & 'natural to the human being'... both very broad terms...

human diet spans lots & lots of foods... many asian food, considered delicacy may be considered revolting to westerners...

some have huge barn full of snails raised for food... breed them, etc... & claim some snails better than others...

some love hamburger, some believe cow very holy... diet spans the gamut of selection.

1 thing for certain:
if any food source scarce, humans will move on to another food source, to survive...

'processing' included curing meat in salt, so can preserve for long periods... w/out this innovation, many humans die - as travel globe.
1 reason salt used to be form of currency...

not many purely vegan cultures prevailed in history... most dominant culture require protein of meat to fight invaders &/or conquer & invade...

please detail how humans are not made to digest these foods...
since organisms are continually adapting & humans have eaten processed foos since day 1... ?

Conclusion; both organic and non-organic (mineral-based) nutrients are 'natural' to plants and humans.

In industrial agriculture yes, where mineral-based nutrients can bump yields in short-term, but destroys the organic soil culture and therefore degrades the soil in a long term perspective.

not necessarily... depends on farmers practices, crop rotations, environmental influences, etc...

But in a small size indoor coco cultivation, where no pesticides or other types of potentially dangerous products are used, and where the coco generally is flushed before end of use, there is no environmental advantage with using organic nutrients whatsoever.

what is interesting is that terms 'organic' & 'artificial' may have many different definitions, or interpretations...

depending on region, l*ws, etc...

if take expansive view, ultimately everything that exists is 'organic'... wo/man take credit for converting this/that to other form, however, the thing was already there... metal was always present, but developed further for weapon, or transporation, of hunting device, etc...

1st law of thermodynamics:
energy neither created, nor destroyed, just conserved, or chages form...

the actual states of form transition, & the time required to change these states is key to this thread...

nice post!

 

[*mistress*]

both organic & chemical fertilizers are applied to provide healthy nutrition to plants...

'organic' ferts seem to require multiple stages (or states) of conversion, before being finally availble in non-organic, ionic form - for absorption by plant roots...

'chemical' ferts give direct nutrition to roots...
maybe, from point of view of plants, they desire steady diet...

seems organic requires more energy (or, additional processes in media) to carry out conversion process. chemical only requires proper ph of solution, to maintain micronutrients & other macro-nutrient balances...

as for micro-organisms... totally different arrangement... if cannot calculate the rate @ which they do whatever they do, is partially based on speculation...

also, term 'beneficial' microbes/micro-organisms seems to infer there are non-beneficial organisms...

but, since gardners have studied these, we can list some of the microbial life that surrounds plants...

*an avg plant has ~20 million bacteria on ea square inch of plant matter...

viroids-
only seen w/ electron microscope...
smaller than viruses... not fully understood, yet.

viruses-
nucleic acids surrounded by protein coat. some have membranes... viruses take over plant cells to multiply... shaped like spears, bullets, rods.
spread by insects, fungi, nematodes, humans, seeds...

symptoms-
leaf mottling, leaf spots, stem spots, stunting, ring spots, yellowing...

mycoplasm-
only seen w/ electron microscope...
sized between bacteria & viruses... like bacteria, but no cell wall.
spread by sucking insects & from plant to plant (keep clean garden tools!). unknown how to stop...

symptoms-
yellowing, stunting, abnormal growth spreading...

bacteria-
most seen w/ light microscope...
1 or more flapping tail for movement. spread in water, wind, propagation materials, insects, & media... can be floating, or free in water & not attached to organic matter or roots. can be attached to rocks, silt, sand, clay particles, etc...

so, seems whether run inert media (hydro), or soil (organic), these bacteria will be present & active... no distinction there.

...aerobic bacteria-(beneficial, or 'good')
produce glue material w/ ph of 7.0+ ph...
...anaerobic bacteria-(non-beneficial, or 'bad')
produce organic acids in large amount & prefer ph lower than 7.0...

both types have many species... that may vary slightly, in relations to conditions they prefer.

bacteria contain lots of nutrients... however, requires predators, ieg, protozoa, nematodes, microarthropods, earthworms, etc to consume & thus release these nutrients...

bacteria conserve n, p, k, ca, ng, etc... not much carbon.

symptoms similar to fungi & can be mistaken for fungal attack-
leaf spots, blights, soft rot of fruit, stem & storage organs... wilt, overgrowth...

*under ideal conditions, bacteria can divide every 20 minutes...
*1 bacteria can divide 100 million per day...

there are also water molds, pythium, phytophthora, etc...

all of the ^ like different temperature & conditions to survive... including different ph's to survive... nitrogen form & content of nitrogen seem to also effect bad-micro-organism establishment & attack on plant.

fungi-
long thread-like, various length + diameters... diameter & length generally determine if disease-causing or not... many, many types... some 'good', some 'bad'...

protozoa-...flagellates, amoebae, ciliates...
each has different physical characteristics & most eat bacteria...

nematodes-
bacteria-eater, fungal-eater, predatory nematode-eater & root-feeders...

basically, worms...

to see all/most of these creatures:
laboratory-grade microscope...
if not, purely guessing @ what is/is not in media, root system, or nutrient solution... or, on garden tools, walls, floors, etc...

so... if add 'beneficial microbes', or 'beneficial organisms', should, seems, add micro-scope to garden tools, to actually verify that these organisms are balanced & not simply prey for predators organisms... which would then make entire plant - prey...

quality microscope ~same coins as other quality garden diagnostic tools, ieg, ph/ppm meter, refractometer, etc...

enjoy your garden!

 

[transplant]

I want an answer to the question I asked first nothing more, I don't care about chemicals vs. organics debates, especially in this thread, I was hoping that post will end the wandering-off-the-topic phase, but with some people it never ends .

I'll simply ignore any posts from now on.

Back On track!!! Ok, I use coco, pearlite, myrocosial? fungi in form os soft rock phoshphate, rare earth "silica powder & humic or fulfic acid" mexican bat guano 10-2-2, puruvian bat guano 10-10-2...All just in the coco mix. Then in the ro water goes1 teaspoon of Cal Mag Maxper G, 1 teaspoon of GH micro per gallon, 1/2 teaspoon GH bloom per G, 1 oz for 32 gallons of Hormex. 3/4 water line 1/4 drip line pushed into the 3/4 water line no connectors. Blue 1/4 drip spikes & multiple 400 watt digi with Hortilux Blue Bulbs 1 foot of plants. Lightning Growth, no leaf burn, lock up or def. So take it for what it is worth.

 

[transplant]

I want an answer to the question I asked first nothing more, I don't care about chemicals vs. organics debates, especially in this thread, I was hoping that post will end the wandering-off-the-topic phase, but with some people it never ends .

I'll simply ignore any posts from now on.

Back On track!!! Ok, I use coco, pearlite, myrocosial? fungi in form os soft rock phoshphate, rare earth "silica powder & humic or fulfic acid" mexican bat guano 10-2-2, puruvian bat guano 10-10-2...All just in the coco mix. Then in the ro water goes1 teaspoon of Cal Mag Maxper G, 1 teaspoon of GH micro per gallon, 1/2 teaspoon GH bloom per G, 1 oz for 32 gallons of Hormex. 3/4 water line 1/4 drip line pushed into the 3/4 water line no connectors. Blue 1/4 drip spikes & multiple 400 watt digi with Hortilux Blue Bulbs 1 foot off plants with no glass. Lightning Growth, no leaf burn, lock up or def. So take it for what it is worth.

 

[transplant]

Plus 1 teaspoon per gallon Heavy Weight wich is only molasas. Also just running veg cycle due to cold & pest problem earlier.

 

[transplant]

Also 5-10 seconds every hour of open line drip dtw. mix of 3/4 gallon pots beer cups & 2 gallon net cups for air pruning effect.

 

[transplant]

Also 1 teaspoon of LK per gallon
100 post!!! lol

 

[superpedro]

organics is healthier all around, from the factory (chemical waste pollution) that makes the chemicals that sell those to the hydro chemical company(more waste and pollution , and when you get them to youre house, youre run off, all goes to the water or pollutes the ground and effects your health

Making my clean salts uses energy - But for the few grams of dry nutes I use for an entire run in my microcab, the consumption is equal to less than an hour of light in the cab. Since you are able to cut up to a week of vegging using aero - chem nutes saves energy compared to organic.
How much power do you use for making your teas?
How do you get rid of your excess soil afterwords? Organic nutes get washed out of leftover organics causes fish death each fall where I live.
Hydro nutes go into the toilet, and is treated with microbes. No pollution there mate.

Use a biofilter in chem hydro and you wont have NH4 buildups, and no taste of amino acids when you smoke - just like organic.

 

[transplant]

Sorry 1 more time. Also 1 teaspoon of hygrozyme

 

[*mistress*]

Sorry 1 more time. Also 1 teaspoon of hygrozyme

?

how do you calculate effectiveness of any of these inputs, individually, &/or together?

in particular... the micro-organisms?