Spider mites and raw neem oil: let's roll.
- Thread starter maryjohn
- Start date
my mites were as bad as this guy's and I followed the exact same plan of attack. Setting reminders on the calendar is key. I see an occasional leaf with spot now, but it's very much under control and manageable.
I was surprised to hear from a family member who used to market pesticides to farmers that he uses plain old dish soap and water to control spider mites on his plants when he takes them in for the winter. And here I am, all organic this and that, and I am the one doing overkill?
Anyway, I like the smell of neem, and the plants don't mind, so I just keep on spraying once a week, albeit a very low dose.
I was surprised to hear from a family member who used to market pesticides to farmers that he uses plain old dish soap and water to control spider mites on his plants when he takes them in for the winter. And here I am, all organic this and that, and I am the one doing overkill?
Anyway, I like the smell of neem, and the plants don't mind, so I just keep on spraying once a week, albeit a very low dose.
haha i always thought you were MJ, but i guess not
soap works to control many things as well as garlic, i think its best to use as many methods as possible to avoid or control pest. lots of pest become tolerant if you spray them with the same old, so i personally think its best to switch it up. garlic and soap shouldn’t be hard to come by....
can you post a garlic extraction process? I've tried mineral oil maceration, but it makes for an impossible to clean sprayer. the smell didn't go away until I started using EM.
MJ? We all grow it. I'm not sure what you are referring to. MJ is for everyone! If you love it, and respect it, it grows for you.
MJ? We all grow it. I'm not sure what you are referring to. MJ is for everyone! If you love it, and respect it, it grows for you.
V
vonforne
As a preventive I always spray 2 to 3 weeks prior to entering the flowering room. And like you said the plants love it.
V
V
Neem Seed Meal
Neem Seed Meal
Seaweed products have properties which help a plant fight off pathogens & invaders. [cite]
I purchased a small pack of neem seed meal for a friend.
On the back of the box was instructions on brewing up a 'neem seed meal tea' so I added 1/4 cup kelp meal in 5-gallons of water and bubbled it out for 12 hours or so. I then added the appropriate amount of neem seed meal and bubbled it out for another 24 hours or so.
I also added the appropriate amount of Dyna-Gro Pro-TeKt (liquid silicon) and applied this mixture to my plants.
1. The plants responded very well to the mixture - more of a 'fertilizer' </snerk> than a 'fix' for mites and powdery mildew.
2. Sometimes using this mixture is preferable to using the need seed oil products since you don't have to be concerned about which emulsifier to use, etc.
3. This mixture is effective as a soil drench to wipe out gnats.
4. It's friggin' cheap.
Just a thought and some observations on my little experiment
HTH
CC
Neem Seed Meal
Seaweed products have properties which help a plant fight off pathogens & invaders. [cite]
I purchased a small pack of neem seed meal for a friend.
On the back of the box was instructions on brewing up a 'neem seed meal tea' so I added 1/4 cup kelp meal in 5-gallons of water and bubbled it out for 12 hours or so. I then added the appropriate amount of neem seed meal and bubbled it out for another 24 hours or so.
I also added the appropriate amount of Dyna-Gro Pro-TeKt (liquid silicon) and applied this mixture to my plants.
1. The plants responded very well to the mixture - more of a 'fertilizer' </snerk> than a 'fix' for mites and powdery mildew.
2. Sometimes using this mixture is preferable to using the need seed oil products since you don't have to be concerned about which emulsifier to use, etc.
3. This mixture is effective as a soil drench to wipe out gnats.
4. It's friggin' cheap.
Just a thought and some observations on my little experiment
HTH
CC
Last edited:
V
vonforne
Nice post CC. Might add this in the OFC thread also if you do not mind.
V
V
That would be very nice if you feel it might be helpful for others.
BTW - there are available through Ayurvedic medicine suppliers an extract from the neem tree seed/bark/etc. which contains the active ingredients in neem seed such as Azadirachtin, Salanin, Nimbin, Meliantriol, Meldenin, Azadiradione, Azadirone, Isonimolicinolide, Mahmoodin, Vepinin Vn, Nimbidinin, Nimbonin.
The most important is Azadirachtin and the amount of can be as little as 1/8 tsp. per 10 liters so it's very powerful.
I've used these extracts (human food-grade) on some outdoor plants that got hit hard with mites during last summer's record heat wave (107F) and it worked very well. I haven't tried it yet on my medical plants.
Just a thought.
CC
The Neem Tree
The Neem Tree
The Neem Tree
The Neem tree, Azadirachta indica is a tropical evergreen tree from the mahogany family. Also known as the Nimba, it is native to east India and Burma, but is grown widely in much of Southeast Asia and West Africa.
The Neem tree has been widely called the Tree of Life due to its many insecticidal and antiseptic properties. It had been recorded that the first indication of Neem being used as a medical treatment was about 4,500 years ago during the height of the India Harappa culture, one of the great civilizations of the ancient world. Since then, Neem has become so much a part of Indian life that most people are not conscious of how many ways Neem impacted their lives.
In rural India, a Neem twig is still considered a very effective toothbrush, for while its fibers clean, its juices works both as a mouth freshener and a germ-killing dentifrice. Many people still use Neem leaves boiled in water to de-worm children and brushing Neem leaves over infected skin is suppose to help in the healing of measles and chicken-pox. Hanging a bunch of Neem leaves on your door also serves as a warning that someone in the house is down with these afflictions.
In Indian mythology, the Neem is considered sacred because the six goddesses who regulate disease are believed to live in it. These goddesses are said to infect people as a punishment for misconduct. Women pray to the Neem and make offerings at its base. It is believe that the presence of these goddesses makes the Neem a test of truth, for those who utter falsehoods beneath a Neem are believed to fall violently ill.
The Neem is also sacred to Manasadevi, queen of the serpents, who protects people from snakebite. Neem leaves is regularly offered at her altar. It is even thought that if a person lives on food cooked on a fire of Neem wood, he will be immune to snake venom!The healing and purification properties are so ingrained in Indian mythology that to this day, bunches of Neem leaves are still used during certain religious ceremonies.
The Neem tree, Azadirachta indica is a very fast grower. They may grow as much as seven meters in height in just three years from seed planting. A typical tree can grow to about 20 meters and are reported to live for up to 200 years. It has small, white flowers with a very sweet, jasmine-like scent. Its fruit, which is edible, is about 2cm long and turns yellow or greenish yellow when ripen. A Neem tree normally begins bearing fruit after 3-5 years and can produce up to 50kg of fruits annually. They require well drained soil and are generally heavy feeders, responding well to organic fertilizers like bone meal and fish emulsion. While the Neem has few pest problems, they do tend to die-back or rot if they are over watered or planted in water-logged areas.
There are two other species of Neem, Azadirachta siamensis and A. excelsa or the Giant Neem Tree. The Giant Neem tree, which is native to Malaysia and the Philippines, is a popular tree in Malaysia and is valued for its timber, which is used in building houses and furniture. Recently, the National Parks Board had introduced it as a roadside tree and new plantings of these trees can be seen along the AYE at Clementi and along Turf Club Road.
The knowledge that the Neem tree has insecticidal properties is not new. For centuries, farmers in Asia had witness entire crops devastated by locust while Neem trees planted in the same fields were left uneaten. As far back as the 1920s, Indian scientist researched Neem trees but their work was little appreciated until 1959 when a German entomologist, Heinrich Schmutterer started researching on why Neem trees were not eaten by locust. From that study, spawned a growing interest into the properties of Neem and today, there are several hundred researchers in at least a dozen countries studying the various aspects of Neem and its products.
Research has shown that Neem protects itself from the multitude of pest with a multitude of pesticidal ingredients. Its main chemical defense contains 3 or 4 related compounds and it has another 20 or more minor active compounds that back it up. These compounds belong to a general class of natural products called "limonoids".
Among the various limonoids found in Neem, the most widely recognized are azadirachtin, salannin, meliantriol and nimbin, which are also the most effective compounds, extracted to formulate Neem products.
Neem products are unique in that they do not kill insects out right. Instead, they work by altering an insect's behavior in various subtle ways. Azadirachtin for example disrupts the metamorphosis of insect larvae. By stopping molting, it keeps the larvae from developing into pupae and to adults, thereby preventing the formation of a new generation. Azadirachtin and another limonoid, salannin are also powerful repellant. It had been noted that insects would rather starve to death than to eat plants that are treated with these products.
Obtaining these natural insecticides from the Neem is in principle simple enough. The leaves or seeds can be crushed and steeped in water, alcohol or other solvents. The resulting extracts, becomes a pesticidal cocktail that can have surprising effective results.
However, most commercial products in the market obtain the extracts from the kernels, which have been found to contain the highest concentration of the various limonoids. There are many brands of Neem products in the market that contains mainly Neem oil extracts in various concentrations, from 50% up to 80% pure Neem oil.
These usually contain four major and sometimes up to 20 minor active compounds. Used in a dilution of 1 to 100, these products can have surprising good results against the more common insect pests.
Newer generation of Neem products go one step further by refining the Neem oil extracts to obtain the most effective ingredients from the mix. This process allows for a better and more stable formulation that can be for specific pests in large commercial applications.
Another benefit of using Neem for the control of insect pest is the apparent systemic properties of the compounds. The compounds are absorbed by the plants treated and cannot be washed away by rain. It this way, it remains effective even in new growth but is harmless to bees and other insects that do not chew plant tissue.
Perhaps the most important quality of Neem products is that it has little or no toxicity to warm-blooded animals. Birds and bats eat the sweet pulp of the fruits of Neem trees without apparent ill effects. Certain Neem products may even benefit humans' health.
People in India have been adding Neem leaves to their grain stores for centuries to keep weevils and mold away. They use of Neem branches as "chew-sticks" have not been lost to science, research has shown that compounds in Neem bark are strongly antiseptic and Neem extracts prevent tooth decay. Neem is now used as the active ingredient in certain popular toothpaste in Germany and India!
Another benefit of Neem is the by-product of the extraction of Neem oil. Neem cake, is a solid material left after the oil is pressed from the seeds. Broadcast over soil, it provides organic matter as well as some fertility to the soil. More important, it has been proven to control certain soil pests. Most notable of which is that it is effective against certain nematodes, the virulent microscopic worms that suck the life out of many plants.
About 40 kilos of Neem cake is enough to treat 1,000 square meters of soil.
Neem extracts is also known to kill snails. The only possible drawback of this product is its smell. It has been liken to smelling something like peanut butter mixed with garlic!
The benefits of Neem is not restricted to just plants, researchers in India have been studying the effects of Neem as an analgesic and antipyrentic compound. In trials, positive results have been obtained for significant analgesic and anti-inflammatory effects. This may explain the wide use of Neem in the traditional treatment of fevers.
Another little known research of Neem is that it acts as a powerful spermicide. Indian scientists have demonstrated that Neem oil is a potential new contraceptive. It kills spermatozoa within 30 seconds and has proven effective both in laboratory trials and in practice. This has possibilities for an inexpensive birth control method that can be produce in the backyards of even the remotest villages.
Neem is indeed the tree of life. Its various uses and benefits are only beginning to be known to us. However, as gardeners and plant lovers, its benefits as an organic control of insecticidal and fungal pest are perhaps the best news to us all.
This article is produced with kind permission of the Singapore Gardening Society
The Neem Tree
The Neem Tree
The Neem tree, Azadirachta indica is a tropical evergreen tree from the mahogany family. Also known as the Nimba, it is native to east India and Burma, but is grown widely in much of Southeast Asia and West Africa.
The Neem tree has been widely called the Tree of Life due to its many insecticidal and antiseptic properties. It had been recorded that the first indication of Neem being used as a medical treatment was about 4,500 years ago during the height of the India Harappa culture, one of the great civilizations of the ancient world. Since then, Neem has become so much a part of Indian life that most people are not conscious of how many ways Neem impacted their lives.
In rural India, a Neem twig is still considered a very effective toothbrush, for while its fibers clean, its juices works both as a mouth freshener and a germ-killing dentifrice. Many people still use Neem leaves boiled in water to de-worm children and brushing Neem leaves over infected skin is suppose to help in the healing of measles and chicken-pox. Hanging a bunch of Neem leaves on your door also serves as a warning that someone in the house is down with these afflictions.
In Indian mythology, the Neem is considered sacred because the six goddesses who regulate disease are believed to live in it. These goddesses are said to infect people as a punishment for misconduct. Women pray to the Neem and make offerings at its base. It is believe that the presence of these goddesses makes the Neem a test of truth, for those who utter falsehoods beneath a Neem are believed to fall violently ill.
The Neem is also sacred to Manasadevi, queen of the serpents, who protects people from snakebite. Neem leaves is regularly offered at her altar. It is even thought that if a person lives on food cooked on a fire of Neem wood, he will be immune to snake venom!The healing and purification properties are so ingrained in Indian mythology that to this day, bunches of Neem leaves are still used during certain religious ceremonies.
The Neem tree, Azadirachta indica is a very fast grower. They may grow as much as seven meters in height in just three years from seed planting. A typical tree can grow to about 20 meters and are reported to live for up to 200 years. It has small, white flowers with a very sweet, jasmine-like scent. Its fruit, which is edible, is about 2cm long and turns yellow or greenish yellow when ripen. A Neem tree normally begins bearing fruit after 3-5 years and can produce up to 50kg of fruits annually. They require well drained soil and are generally heavy feeders, responding well to organic fertilizers like bone meal and fish emulsion. While the Neem has few pest problems, they do tend to die-back or rot if they are over watered or planted in water-logged areas.
There are two other species of Neem, Azadirachta siamensis and A. excelsa or the Giant Neem Tree. The Giant Neem tree, which is native to Malaysia and the Philippines, is a popular tree in Malaysia and is valued for its timber, which is used in building houses and furniture. Recently, the National Parks Board had introduced it as a roadside tree and new plantings of these trees can be seen along the AYE at Clementi and along Turf Club Road.
The knowledge that the Neem tree has insecticidal properties is not new. For centuries, farmers in Asia had witness entire crops devastated by locust while Neem trees planted in the same fields were left uneaten. As far back as the 1920s, Indian scientist researched Neem trees but their work was little appreciated until 1959 when a German entomologist, Heinrich Schmutterer started researching on why Neem trees were not eaten by locust. From that study, spawned a growing interest into the properties of Neem and today, there are several hundred researchers in at least a dozen countries studying the various aspects of Neem and its products.
Research has shown that Neem protects itself from the multitude of pest with a multitude of pesticidal ingredients. Its main chemical defense contains 3 or 4 related compounds and it has another 20 or more minor active compounds that back it up. These compounds belong to a general class of natural products called "limonoids".
Among the various limonoids found in Neem, the most widely recognized are azadirachtin, salannin, meliantriol and nimbin, which are also the most effective compounds, extracted to formulate Neem products.
Neem products are unique in that they do not kill insects out right. Instead, they work by altering an insect's behavior in various subtle ways. Azadirachtin for example disrupts the metamorphosis of insect larvae. By stopping molting, it keeps the larvae from developing into pupae and to adults, thereby preventing the formation of a new generation. Azadirachtin and another limonoid, salannin are also powerful repellant. It had been noted that insects would rather starve to death than to eat plants that are treated with these products.
Obtaining these natural insecticides from the Neem is in principle simple enough. The leaves or seeds can be crushed and steeped in water, alcohol or other solvents. The resulting extracts, becomes a pesticidal cocktail that can have surprising effective results.
However, most commercial products in the market obtain the extracts from the kernels, which have been found to contain the highest concentration of the various limonoids. There are many brands of Neem products in the market that contains mainly Neem oil extracts in various concentrations, from 50% up to 80% pure Neem oil.
These usually contain four major and sometimes up to 20 minor active compounds. Used in a dilution of 1 to 100, these products can have surprising good results against the more common insect pests.
Newer generation of Neem products go one step further by refining the Neem oil extracts to obtain the most effective ingredients from the mix. This process allows for a better and more stable formulation that can be for specific pests in large commercial applications.
Another benefit of using Neem for the control of insect pest is the apparent systemic properties of the compounds. The compounds are absorbed by the plants treated and cannot be washed away by rain. It this way, it remains effective even in new growth but is harmless to bees and other insects that do not chew plant tissue.
Perhaps the most important quality of Neem products is that it has little or no toxicity to warm-blooded animals. Birds and bats eat the sweet pulp of the fruits of Neem trees without apparent ill effects. Certain Neem products may even benefit humans' health.
People in India have been adding Neem leaves to their grain stores for centuries to keep weevils and mold away. They use of Neem branches as "chew-sticks" have not been lost to science, research has shown that compounds in Neem bark are strongly antiseptic and Neem extracts prevent tooth decay. Neem is now used as the active ingredient in certain popular toothpaste in Germany and India!
Another benefit of Neem is the by-product of the extraction of Neem oil. Neem cake, is a solid material left after the oil is pressed from the seeds. Broadcast over soil, it provides organic matter as well as some fertility to the soil. More important, it has been proven to control certain soil pests. Most notable of which is that it is effective against certain nematodes, the virulent microscopic worms that suck the life out of many plants.
About 40 kilos of Neem cake is enough to treat 1,000 square meters of soil.
Neem extracts is also known to kill snails. The only possible drawback of this product is its smell. It has been liken to smelling something like peanut butter mixed with garlic!
The benefits of Neem is not restricted to just plants, researchers in India have been studying the effects of Neem as an analgesic and antipyrentic compound. In trials, positive results have been obtained for significant analgesic and anti-inflammatory effects. This may explain the wide use of Neem in the traditional treatment of fevers.
Another little known research of Neem is that it acts as a powerful spermicide. Indian scientists have demonstrated that Neem oil is a potential new contraceptive. It kills spermatozoa within 30 seconds and has proven effective both in laboratory trials and in practice. This has possibilities for an inexpensive birth control method that can be produce in the backyards of even the remotest villages.
Neem is indeed the tree of life. Its various uses and benefits are only beginning to be known to us. However, as gardeners and plant lovers, its benefits as an organic control of insecticidal and fungal pest are perhaps the best news to us all.
This article is produced with kind permission of the Singapore Gardening Society
neem seed meal - are you sure you want to do that? It's a powerful anti fungal. I have resolved to treat neem as a pesticide like any other, just more eco-friendly and fast to break down (EM works for that, and to clean the sprayer). I use it very sparingly, and never for prevention unless it is narrowly targeted. And I try to keep it out of my soil.
not to criticize anyone or judge, but I think we can be a bit trigger happy. So if you really need it, go for it. Do you really need it?
not to criticize anyone or judge, but I think we can be a bit trigger happy. So if you really need it, go for it. Do you really need it?
CherChezLaGhost
Member
Organicide works like a charm. I got the neem oil also, haven't used it yet. One treatment of Organicide wiped the whole colony out. I sprayed each leaf top and bottom and hit my stems and grow medium. Checked back in a few hours and they were all dead. It treats the eggs too. Great stuff as the plants are showing no ill effects. The only drawback is it stinks too high hell. Keep it sticky. TRISTATE REPRESENTATIVE
sesame oil... interesting. I can't use that stuff though, as I am highly alergic to the inert ingredient edible fish oil.
make sure you follow up that first treatment with another one 3-5 days later depending on temps. Try to figure out the life cycle. When the population gets low enough it starts to collapse and you give the finishing blow.
make sure you follow up that first treatment with another one 3-5 days later depending on temps. Try to figure out the life cycle. When the population gets low enough it starts to collapse and you give the finishing blow.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...FplC4LrOGrewtw
Here's what I posted in that fungus gnat thread,I was concerned about neem and microbe populations so this is what I found about it..........okay that's not working...just check it out on the fungus gnat thread.............
Here's what I posted in that fungus gnat thread,I was concerned about neem and microbe populations so this is what I found about it..........okay that's not working...just check it out on the fungus gnat thread.............
B_D
Down-To-Earth packs for one of the importers of neem seed meal and then they re-badge it under their label.
One of the grow stores near Portland in Milwaukie, Oregon carries the Down-To-Earth packages - Indoor Garden Depot
Tell Rome that 'Microbe Guy' sent you there and ask for the 'bro pricing' - LOL
A 6-lb. box should run somewhere around $11.00 and will last you about a year or so.
HTH
CC
Absolutely. Each and every grow and food plants in the garden. Neem seed oil with yucca extract sprayed on plants on a regular basis. The orchard is sprayed every week during late spring and summer.
And kelp/seaweed contain chlorine. And?
Don't let science not to mention the plethora of peer-reviewed studies in over 50 countries. And?
I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
CC
Outside - watch for pollinators cc. The adults will be fine, but the neem soaked pollen causes problems for larvae.
Further, while neem oil breaks down quickly, repeatedly spraying an anti feedant with hormonal effects on sucking insects can reduce food sources fo beneficials. Like any pesticide, indiscriminate use is unwise.
I am not against tilting the balance so my own species gains an advantage, as long as it is done with full knowledge of the consequences.
So no, I don't accept that neem is harmless, an that using it constantly is good for people in th end. Let's rely on safe direct controls on pests when we need them, but always strive to fix underlying issues. Inside, the issue can be the inside itself, as it is with spider mites, so in that case preventive spraying can be considered targetted with a high degree of credibility.
Further, while neem oil breaks down quickly, repeatedly spraying an anti feedant with hormonal effects on sucking insects can reduce food sources fo beneficials. Like any pesticide, indiscriminate use is unwise.
I am not against tilting the balance so my own species gains an advantage, as long as it is done with full knowledge of the consequences.
So no, I don't accept that neem is harmless, an that using it constantly is good for people in th end. Let's rely on safe direct controls on pests when we need them, but always strive to fix underlying issues. Inside, the issue can be the inside itself, as it is with spider mites, so in that case preventive spraying can be considered targetted with a high degree of credibility.
Tell you what - look up neem seed oil at the EPA and then review what IS and what IS NOT a pesticide under current federal regulations at the very same web site.
THEN and ONLY then would we have ANY basis of a discussion. What you've answered me with are OPINIONS and little else.
I'm more than happy to discus SCIENCE as it relates neem tree extracts. I'm NOT willing to discuss this or that OPINION on this or any other topic regarding to organic growing.
Quite frankly your OPINIONS do NOT pass the 'smell test' much less a scientific study on ANY level.
Sorry but that's where it's at with me on this topic. Show me a valid 'link' to a peer-reviewed study and I'll be more than happy to share my information with you.
Take care.
CC
