we wouldnt even have our smoke if some dude didnt selecting towards the traits we love,,,,OP is mad
What Male to use in a cross?
- Thread starter groady-ho
- Start date
If it breeds so true what's the difference between #4 and #3.
You still don't seem to understand what the term species means. Different species can't produce fertile seed when hybridized. And if everything isn't related these days where are all the pure indicas and the pure sativas? Obviously anything with a drop of skunk in it doesn't count...uh, oh. That pretty much screws your "theory" over. I'm not arguing anything about cannabis sub species btw. I don't care if you want to call landraces from India Cannabis sativa or cannabis indica. It's all names and what variation exists, exists whether you want to call it cannabis nuggeta or cannabis sativa. There wouldn't have been so much change within the sub species categories if it had been based on DNA research from the get go. But I bet you already knew that. Just like you knew Steve doesn't grow pot and that Koot took over SOL... And on the subject of Steve I think he had much better releases than average but I certainly wouldn't use his methods as a model for future improvement.
Oh, and when you ask such a rudimentary question I have no problem swiftly answering for Tom. Not that it did much good I bet you don't even know what linkage is or how it works.
You still don't seem to understand what the term species means. Different species can't produce fertile seed when hybridized. And if everything isn't related these days where are all the pure indicas and the pure sativas? Obviously anything with a drop of skunk in it doesn't count...uh, oh. That pretty much screws your "theory" over. I'm not arguing anything about cannabis sub species btw. I don't care if you want to call landraces from India Cannabis sativa or cannabis indica. It's all names and what variation exists, exists whether you want to call it cannabis nuggeta or cannabis sativa. There wouldn't have been so much change within the sub species categories if it had been based on DNA research from the get go. But I bet you already knew that. Just like you knew Steve doesn't grow pot and that Koot took over SOL... And on the subject of Steve I think he had much better releases than average but I certainly wouldn't use his methods as a model for future improvement.
Oh, and when you ask such a rudimentary question I have no problem swiftly answering for Tom. Not that it did much good I bet you don't even know what linkage is or how it works.
The #4 was selected to be more mold resistant and faster flowering, traits which seem to both accompany one another for obvious reasons. They are all backcrosses to the mother which is why there is really not too much difference in them other than the #3 seems to have more of the BB pheno's in it and slightly larger yielder (most) but also not as heavy on the trichome production as the #4 from what I have seen. Kootenay and others have stated the #4 was a good plant for making hash which we know Steve loved. This is really splitting hairs though because almost all of them have that typical Sweet Tooth structure, grapefruity citrus smell when stems are rubbed or bud crushed, & warm comfortable potency/effect. There are some morphological differences for sure but most of the end product seems to be identical is what I am getting at. You keep bringing up the fact that Steve does'nt grow pot anymore or make seeds, everyone knows that lmao. I have known that for a LONG time. It does'nt have anything to do with the price of tea in China my friend. A great strain is a great strain, you can't do or say anything to change that. SOL stock being just "better than average" is the understatement of the century. Some of the best pot on the planet hands down and yes, most of that is due to that one special blueberry male that got everything in it's path knocked up. Lucky stud that plant was and the SPG is really a special cut. No matter who you are or what you have it all came from somewhere else to begin with.
Also goes to show you just how important good selection really is over OP!
Also goes to show you just how important good selection really is over OP!
SOTF -
So how did I grow something that I didn't know existed? If you'll reread that thread you'll see I mentioned growing out a few. And you'll see that Koot called it the least desirable of all the Sweettooths. Anyway, I'm done talking to you. We are derailing this thread. Hit me up if you want to know about autosomal linkage and crossover events. Unless they're just blah blah blah like genetic erosion LMFAO.
Tom...got no idea what you're referencing.
So how did I grow something that I didn't know existed? If you'll reread that thread you'll see I mentioned growing out a few. And you'll see that Koot called it the least desirable of all the Sweettooths. Anyway, I'm done talking to you. We are derailing this thread. Hit me up if you want to know about autosomal linkage and crossover events. Unless they're just blah blah blah like genetic erosion LMFAO.
Tom...got no idea what you're referencing.
By including you in the ..., you mean?
It's because you are stating poor breeding practices along with Nvisionary when you -neither of you- have any idea whether or not these lines achieved by these poor breeding practices have the fitness and overall worth to be around in 100 years. Because the ONLY reason to OP is to make sure that these genotypes can be narrowed in on later, but we can't say that they've not -some- have been narrowed in on already, period. Backcrossing is solid, selfing is solid, open-pollinations are solid, they are all part of what needs to happen. They ALL have their place and for GOOD reason. Anybody arguing against any of them should not be doing any of them imo. Fuggit, I'm going fishing -T
It's because you are stating poor breeding practices along with Nvisionary when you -neither of you- have any idea whether or not these lines achieved by these poor breeding practices have the fitness and overall worth to be around in 100 years. Because the ONLY reason to OP is to make sure that these genotypes can be narrowed in on later, but we can't say that they've not -some- have been narrowed in on already, period. Backcrossing is solid, selfing is solid, open-pollinations are solid, they are all part of what needs to happen. They ALL have their place and for GOOD reason. Anybody arguing against any of them should not be doing any of them imo. Fuggit, I'm going fishing
-T
S
spliphy
@ GitT Sure, as far as reworking the strain goes the F1 crosses of the SPG female x BB male would be the most desireable genetically speaking, not the #3 or the #4 if you are trying to "rework it". What Koot say's is not really of that much importance to me about seeds that came from Steve in the first place and that opinion should be taken with a grain of salt as far as I'm concerned. The #4 was a somewhat limited release and many people have not worked with it anyways, I doubt Kootenay grew out packs of it in 02' - 03' but hey I could be wrong who knows. I have the original #3 and #4 untouched as well as incrossed beans of both and and I would take the #4 over the #3 for many reasons the number one being the much greater occurence of the SPG traits but maybe that's just because I got a few lucky packs right? Good old luck working her many miracles again it seems, almost like a trend? Just random lucky seeds from another clueless breeder right GitT? Maybe one day we can all bask in your greatness and grow your expertly bred strains that put all of these others to shame with your god like knowledge of cannabis breeding right? 
Refresh my memory, what are those strains again?
Refresh my memory, what are those strains again?
By including you in the ..., you mean?
It's because you are stating poor breeding practices along with Nvisionary when you -neither of you- have any idea whether or not these lines achieved by these poor breeding practices have the fitness and overall worth to be around in 100 years. Because the ONLY reason to OP is to make sure that these genotypes can be narrowed in on later, but we can't say that they've not -some- have been narrowed in on already, period. Backcrossing is solid, selfing is solid, open-pollinations are solid, they are all part of what needs to happen. They ALL have there place and for GOOD reason. Anybody arguing against any of them should not be doing any of them imo. Fuggit, I'm going fishing
Abso-fucking-lutely right on dude,
Yeti
Active member
Came in to this a little bit late. Nearly all of our vegetables have been created due to selective open-pollination. Without selective breeding our broccoli, cauliflower and many other common-place vegetables would still be mustard for example. Selective breeding is used to isolate particular traits from a wild variety and in some cases leads to degradation of a trait if that is selected for (i.e. wild strawberries vs. store-bought) Wild strawberries(about the size of a blue berry) generally are much sweeter than any commercial variety. sound familiar? Had sweetness been selected for with yield as an after thought, strawberries may have likely never gained their common size.
<http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIIE4Evochange.shtml>
Artificial Selection
Long before Darwin and Wallace, farmers and breeders were using the idea of selection to cause major changes in the features of their plants and animals over the course of decades. Farmers and breeders allowed only the plants and animals with desirable characteristics to reproduce, causing the evolution of farm stock. This process is called artificial selection because people (instead of nature) select which organisms get to reproduce.
As shown below, farmers have cultivated numerous popular crops from the wild mustard, by artificially selecting for certain attributes.
These common vegetables were cultivated from forms of wild mustard. This is evolution through artificial selection.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
So,
My opinion is, if you've got a low selection of genetics to choose from open pollinate with a slightly more generous selection. With the next generation you will be allowed a more strict selection due to to a larger population. This will only lead to degradation of particular gene expression. What suits you. I agree that the second generation should not be sold at markup values due to their parents "brandname," however unless you want to start growing mustard again, I would select your favorite looking broccoli. Genetics will evolve to your environment if allowed to pollinate without artificial selection.
Good luck everyone I preserve most of my genes with a pollination with every male on every female. Some day I will likely have the ability to produce my own stabilized selections with large populations however now I'll settle to grow the new generation of reputable breeders I trust for selection. Find a strain that suits you and open pollinate. You will have that seed for life.
I am not a breeder. I only find it necessary to invest my seed purchases for the future by preserving them.
Thanks,
Yeti.
Here is an example of the terrible world of hybrid breeding.
Vietchunk(Deep Chunk x Vietnamese Black) Hybrid vigor if I must say so. Fast veg. 2x quick stretch. Sativa cosmodelic high. 8-9 week flower. Hashy-spicy. Not my fave in the taste department but blows my mind every toke. Will stay with me forever.
Peace guys. Mustard grows rampantly in my back yard. It's an exotic species. It's keeping developer's out at the moment from turning this beautiful land to a square of squares and boxes. Squares don't mesh with spheres. Sorry, off topic. Keep on.
<http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIIE4Evochange.shtml>
Artificial Selection
Long before Darwin and Wallace, farmers and breeders were using the idea of selection to cause major changes in the features of their plants and animals over the course of decades. Farmers and breeders allowed only the plants and animals with desirable characteristics to reproduce, causing the evolution of farm stock. This process is called artificial selection because people (instead of nature) select which organisms get to reproduce.
As shown below, farmers have cultivated numerous popular crops from the wild mustard, by artificially selecting for certain attributes.
These common vegetables were cultivated from forms of wild mustard. This is evolution through artificial selection.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
So,
My opinion is, if you've got a low selection of genetics to choose from open pollinate with a slightly more generous selection. With the next generation you will be allowed a more strict selection due to to a larger population. This will only lead to degradation of particular gene expression. What suits you. I agree that the second generation should not be sold at markup values due to their parents "brandname," however unless you want to start growing mustard again, I would select your favorite looking broccoli. Genetics will evolve to your environment if allowed to pollinate without artificial selection.
Good luck everyone I preserve most of my genes with a pollination with every male on every female. Some day I will likely have the ability to produce my own stabilized selections with large populations however now I'll settle to grow the new generation of reputable breeders I trust for selection. Find a strain that suits you and open pollinate. You will have that seed for life.
I am not a breeder. I only find it necessary to invest my seed purchases for the future by preserving them.
Thanks,
Yeti.
Here is an example of the terrible world of hybrid breeding.
Vietchunk(Deep Chunk x Vietnamese Black) Hybrid vigor if I must say so. Fast veg. 2x quick stretch. Sativa cosmodelic high. 8-9 week flower. Hashy-spicy. Not my fave in the taste department but blows my mind every toke. Will stay with me forever.
Peace guys. Mustard grows rampantly in my back yard. It's an exotic species. It's keeping developer's out at the moment from turning this beautiful land to a square of squares and boxes. Squares don't mesh with spheres. Sorry, off topic. Keep on.
i agree 10000%,,,,,preservation is a ballance,,,, thank god for you tom,,,,i understand OP is a good breeding tool,,,as is selfing!!......you got it in 1 ^^^^its just a tool to be used for the right job at the right time...imo selfing comes first
No Tom, because before the edit all it said was 'Both are needed' without any indication of what 2 things you were talking about...
Wait...what? I'm not advocating JACK SHIT. I've not spoken word one about how I feel about Nvisionary's "theory." I've simply tried to clarify what we're talking about with regards to OP and clarified some of your statements that members have questioned. I'm not telling you to do or to stop doing anything.
Again, your lumping me in with nVisionary for some reason. If he was a lessor mind perhaps I'd be insulted. Explain to me how preserving every gene possible until legalization occurs is a "poor breeding practice." How are you even going to argue this? Regardless, I'm not nVisionary so please don't assume I agree with everything he says. Furthermore, your statement means nothing because none of us will be around in 100 years to see. However, properly maintained OP populations will NOT lack vigor or fitness and I think you know this.
The ONLY reason to OP is to maintain every gene possible until the situation arises where they can be properly integrated or used. I really see no argument here. If you honestly think some lines are perfectly narrow I'd love to hear which they are. Please educate us. IMO- the few that are narrow are way too fucking narrow to be of perfect use.
Backcrossing is solid, selfing is solid, open-pollinations are solid, they are all part of what needs to happen. They ALL have there place and for GOOD reason. Anybody arguing against any of them should not be doing any of them imo. Fuggit, I'm going fishing
Fantastic, but I'll constantly argue against their misuse. I think we can both agree they're very dependent on a Breeder's goals. So feel free to show me any company that maintains its release through OP, or any company that uses OP as a method of preservation in any sense. Then feel free to show me one company that's properly using the selfing technique as opposed to just hacking away at "elites" and selling them for a fat bundle. And I'd also love to hear a good reason for backcrossing when cannabis is legal and clones are available through the mail...FWIW I think many have argued against cubing and much less so with an occasional backcross.
Again, I'd like to stress this: I'm not nVisionary. I don't agree with him 100% of the time. And I was a little insulted that you didn't answer my friendly pm.
Well great Mr. Expert, please tell me why.
I'll be waiting with your pictures of other species of cannabis.Great, feel free to tell him that when your hyping the deceased SOL releases in HIS forum.
Great, I'm so glad you know everything Koot grew out 7 years ago. You're so bloody knowledgeable, it's a shame you can't contribute something worthwhile to this discussion.
No, no, no. We'd be lucky if you could post something of value. Maybe you'll enlighten us on why the #4 has such a greater occurence of the SPG traits. Let me guess: "because backcrossing is fantastic."
Just random lucky seeds from another clueless breeder right GitT? Maybe one day we can all bask in your greatness and grow your expertly bred strains that put all of these others to shame with your god like knowledge of cannabis breeding right?
Refresh my memory, what are those strains again?
What have you released? What have you contributed to this site? Who have you educated? Better yet, what have you even contributed to this thread? Maybe you should spend MORE of your time hyping up a bunch of releases that are extinct. Oh, that's right. Koot now has the Sweettooth F1s so he can properly rework the sweettooth release. Because when I was recommending people trying swt1.1 you just weren't willing to call that REAL swt. You douchebag. btw- can't wait to see what you do with the single pack of sweetooth in your freezer. Obviously with your knowledge and selection prowess we can expect something great. And did I mention thanks for the positive reps?
Have a nice day you clueless dickrider.
emagine this,,,,,,
i have 100 Chineese Yahuuna seeds in my hand,,,,,,,,,Chineese Yahhuna is said to be 1 of the first ganga`s,,,,,,,you could say Chineese Yahhuna is as close to old world as your gona get,,,,,this 100seeds are the only weed seeds i will EVER get in my life
What Am I To Do?......[lets say i live on a farm and i can go pretty big...]
so im sat there with my 100 Yahhuna seeds, an im thinkin,,,,,,,,,,HOW DO I CHOOSE ENVIROENTAL FACTORS?,,,,the second i sprout them i have a choice to grow indoor or outdoor....hmmm,,,sh1t im confused
OK,,,,,,,,i grow the 100 seeds [extra extra carefully, making sure every seed is valued],,,,,{BINGO NOT OP}.....,,,,oppps,,,,i cant help them!,,,can i?...anyways,,,,,,,,turns out they are 50% male 50% female,,,my lucky day
most plants look like death warmed up,,,,lots of crappy plants!!!,,,,,,,but 10 indervidual females out of 50 on the female side are lookin sexy ,,,,so what do i do??,,,scrap the other 40 nasty lookin females?,, or do i fill them up like some sorta milf?...lol...i make myself laugh
the males i know know nothing about!!!!!,,,,,in panic id probbly use ever male i had,,,but if i could id test it!!!!,,, i would!!,,,,sam oh sam,,,but what would i be testing for?,,,,im thinkin "CBD CBN and last but not least THC,,,,terpen profile!!,,,,yes!
im thinking 2 things,,,,,,,,my impact on the plants is forceing certain expreshions to arrise,,,hmmm,,,[il use lack of UK or low CRI as an example],,imo this is epigenetic`s ,,,,,i think seperation and inbreeding will stabalize these traits!!,,, this is evoloution imo
once Traits have stablized inside the Target Enviroment the job is done!!!!!,,,,,,,, inorder to maintain fitness i would seperate things into parralell lines crossing them together would be my next step,,,, this will narrow things down!!!,,,,,,seperation is the key imo,,,Targeted Traits Targeted Enviroment,,,
i have 100 Chineese Yahuuna seeds in my hand,,,,,,,,,Chineese Yahhuna is said to be 1 of the first ganga`s,,,,,,,you could say Chineese Yahhuna is as close to old world as your gona get
,,,,,this 100seeds are the only weed seeds i will EVER get in my lifeWhat Am I To Do?......[lets say i live on a farm and i can go pretty big...]
so im sat there with my 100 Yahhuna seeds, an im thinkin
,,,,,,,,,,HOW DO I CHOOSE ENVIROENTAL FACTORS?,,,,the second i sprout them i have a choice to grow indoor or outdoor....hmmm,,,sh1t im confusedOK
,,,,,,,,i grow the 100 seeds [extra extra carefully, making sure every seed is valued],,,,,{BINGO NOT OP}.....,,,,oppps,,,,i cant help them!,,,can i?...anyways,,,,,,,,turns out they are 50% male 50% female,,,my lucky daymost plants look like death warmed up,,,,lots of crappy plants!!!,,,,,,,but 10 indervidual females out of 50 on the female side are lookin sexy ,,,,so what do i do??,,,scrap the other 40 nasty lookin females?,, or do i fill them up like some sorta milf?...lol...i make myself laugh
the males i know know nothing about!!!!!,,,,,in panic id probbly use ever male i had,,,but if i could id test it!!!!,,, i would!!,,,,sam oh sam
,,,but what would i be testing for?,,,,im thinkin "CBD CBN and last but not least THC,,,,terpen profile!!,,,,yes! im thinking 2 things,,,,,,,,my impact on the plants is forceing certain expreshions to arrise
,,,hmmm,,,[il use lack of UK or low CRI as an example],,imo this is epigenetic`s ,,,,,i think seperation and inbreeding will stabalize these traits!!,,, this is evoloution imoonce Traits have stablized inside the Target Enviroment the job is done!!!!!,,,,,,,, inorder to maintain fitness i would seperate things into parralell lines crossing them together would be my next step,,,, this will narrow things down!!!,,,,,,seperation is the key imo
,,,Targeted Traits Targeted Enviroment,,,
This guy nailed it on the head! OP favours the early flowering males.
And now we are learning
Tom If we inbreed anything too much it becomes mutated,, OP or otherwise...
If we make poor selection when line breeding then we shaft the line up...
It's about mindful male (and female) selection ,, regardless of how many male plants used in lineage...
Peace Peace Peace
hi nvisionary, i take it you didnt catch much then
nevertheless, thanks for your response
so even skunk1 is a hackjob as far as you're concerned? i must remember that next time i'm having a great time getting high on it. you are asking me to abstain from my little breeding projects and have faith that some brave new world is coming where everything will be perfect and new strains will be created that are so much better? - hmmm, i think what i'll probably do is continue to make seeds and come the day when your cannatopia is upon us i will happily destroy them - providing the new strains actually work for me and my needs better than what i have (and providing that i will not be one of the first against that wall come the revolution )
juvenile phase - i wish
i can certainly acknowledge that my facilities are far from perfect, but then again my car isnt perfect but i will still drive it. the soil in my garden is not perfect but i will still grow good food for my family in it. life isnt perfect but we try and make the best of it. moreover, i find the making of seeds very rewarding - i germed my first homemade seeds this week and it was a satisfying experience, and i'm learning stuff all the time that feeds into and informs my major passion and career of gardening and horticulture. to me it's all good, and whilst your viewpoint is valid and is certainly changes the way i will approach stuff - as Tom says above - it doesnt have to be mutually exclusive with all other breeding practices.
i also think that it's a little presumptious of you to think that what you, or the others you see as 'worthy' of being allowed to breed cannabis, are going to know better what i want and like than myself - dont get me wrong, i'll happily try what you come up with, but what if i dont like it as much as some of the strains/hybrids ive already partaken of? - yknow, jaja binks was probably created with much better resources, facilities and budgets but give me chewbacca anyday
well exactly, and where i live buying seeds is not only expensive but a security risk - so any way i can sidestep this or keep it to a minimum is good. the only thing is i dont see one batch of seeds as setting me up for life because my journey is to keep trying as many different types and strains as i possibly can - at the end of the day i'm looking for a good effect - and if the seeds available for purchase or my own strains can provide me with something that floats my boat then who is anyone to tell me that they are worthless?
cheers
V.
nevertheless, thanks for your response
so even skunk1 is a hackjob as far as you're concerned? i must remember that next time i'm having a great time getting high on it. you are asking me to abstain from my little breeding projects and have faith that some brave new world is coming where everything will be perfect and new strains will be created that are so much better? - hmmm, i think what i'll probably do is continue to make seeds and come the day when your cannatopia is upon us i will happily destroy them - providing the new strains actually work for me and my needs better than what i have (and providing that i will not be one of the first against that wall come the revolution
)juvenile phase - i wish
i can certainly acknowledge that my facilities are far from perfect, but then again my car isnt perfect but i will still drive it. the soil in my garden is not perfect but i will still grow good food for my family in it. life isnt perfect but we try and make the best of it. moreover, i find the making of seeds very rewarding - i germed my first homemade seeds this week and it was a satisfying experience, and i'm learning stuff all the time that feeds into and informs my major passion and career of gardening and horticulture. to me it's all good, and whilst your viewpoint is valid and is certainly changes the way i will approach stuff - as Tom says above - it doesnt have to be mutually exclusive with all other breeding practices.
i also think that it's a little presumptious of you to think that what you, or the others you see as 'worthy' of being allowed to breed cannabis, are going to know better what i want and like than myself - dont get me wrong, i'll happily try what you come up with, but what if i dont like it as much as some of the strains/hybrids ive already partaken of? - yknow, jaja binks was probably created with much better resources, facilities and budgets but give me chewbacca anyday
well exactly, and where i live buying seeds is not only expensive but a security risk - so any way i can sidestep this or keep it to a minimum is good. the only thing is i dont see one batch of seeds as setting me up for life because my journey is to keep trying as many different types and strains as i possibly can - at the end of the day i'm looking for a good effect - and if the seeds available for purchase or my own strains can provide me with something that floats my boat then who is anyone to tell me that they are worthless?
cheers
V.
GitT,
"No Tom, because before the edit all it said was 'Both are needed' without any indication of what 2 things you were talking about..."
Oh, my mistake, sorry.
I was under the impression that you were maybe hammering on Steve earlier and certain breeding practices/lines made as if we had some type of magical insight as to whether they would be around or not in 100 years, as well as whether our childrens children might enjoy them or not - Just like Nvisionary is.
Nothing is perfect, which are good/bad is not a question to be answered by one person -this is not a monarchy- this is answered by many, and over a long long time, this was my point.
Nothing personal on the PM man, I am behind on about 50 PM's and threads right now and will get caught-up as soon as I can. -T
"No Tom, because before the edit all it said was 'Both are needed' without any indication of what 2 things you were talking about..."
Oh, my mistake, sorry.
I was under the impression that you were maybe hammering on Steve earlier and certain breeding practices/lines made as if we had some type of magical insight as to whether they would be around or not in 100 years, as well as whether our childrens children might enjoy them or not - Just like Nvisionary is.
Nothing is perfect, which are good/bad is not a question to be answered by one person -this is not a monarchy- this is answered by many, and over a long long time, this was my point.
Nothing personal on the PM man, I am behind on about 50 PM's and threads right now and will get caught-up as soon as I can. -T
P
Paco
I can't figure out why tom's statement on a line being strong enough to carry on for 100 yrs would catch any flak.
I forget that some of you guys like GItT are masters of horticulture.
you can ask breeders of other flowers, Roses, Lilacs, clematis. Etc.
one this they do breed for is longevity. flower size arrival shape and color too...
What tom is saying that, in the horticultural world, breeders to tend to breed for traits that are desirable for long periods of time. meaning that the plant was genetically strong enough on its own to continue; being picked for cultivation or volunteering its own.
so saying it's silly to think like that shows little genetic foresight/ and no real knowledge about breeding plants.
You can tell me to go away because i dont contribute anything GitT. it's ok.
I forget that some of you guys like GItT are masters of horticulture.
you can ask breeders of other flowers, Roses, Lilacs, clematis. Etc.
one this they do breed for is longevity. flower size arrival shape and color too...
What tom is saying that, in the horticultural world, breeders to tend to breed for traits that are desirable for long periods of time. meaning that the plant was genetically strong enough on its own to continue; being picked for cultivation or volunteering its own.
so saying it's silly to think like that shows little genetic foresight/ and no real knowledge about breeding plants.
You can tell me to go away because i dont contribute anything GitT. it's ok.
how many roads must a man walk down beffore you can call him a man,,,,,beffore he sleeps in the sand,,,,,sometimes you gota fight when your a man
nvisionary
Member
(repost)
TomHill:"Tom Hill:"The fact is that germplasm I have spent decades collecting and maintaining stands a better chance today than it did one year ago in regards to its existence in the future."
>>>Your hackjobs are out there more than if youd not released them into the stream, but they are not contributing positively to the overall health of the pool. You have in fact re-released germplasm that was already in the pool, and once may have been genetically distant, and sold it out into the stream of speed hacks. They have already integrated your '14th cousin' genes into their speed hackjobs, and made them 1st cousins to their speed hacked polyhybrids. One more generation of amateur breeding and they will be SIBLINGS. Nothing good came from doing that. come on!
TomHill:"More than 50% of this "gene pool" we have on this site is still likely derived from a very small handful of lines -like 3-4 haha. Putting forward the notion that this IS the
gene pool ALL IN has a 100% probability of having me lmao - it would probably be tripled
with a couple more guys' collections lol."
>>Yea, laugh your ass off man. Like a fool does.. The fact is, sites, -and dabblers like you- that advocate hackjobs by amateurs have integrated nearly the entire globe's useful drug germplasm..- in SHORT ORDER too.
Look at all the land race seed now, that could have been held closer....now its being integrated by know-nothings who are only focused on hybridizing them to their other polyhybrids.
And I feel somewhat responsible for some of this.. You see, I have already gone down the road of EDUCATION of this community...MANY TIMES.... by way of "educating" them that the more genetic distance you have, the more successful you might be with your hybrids. Its exactly like the eXe/feminization..look at what happened from introducing that tool..more hacking; its exactly like The Backcrossing Method. Look what good came from that..more hacking; its like every thing that SHOULD be a carefully employed tool, but it CANT BE EMPLOYED IN THIS POLITICAL CLIMATE; so it becomes nothing more than another knife in the back of cannabis because they just dont have the freedom or the insight to employ these tools properly..... Like handing a 4 year old a loaded shotgun and telling them not to shoot anything with it. They will. You try and EDUCATE, to get them up to speed, and all that comes from it is more erosion. Thats why "education" is NOT key in this community. We need another avenue. Open Pollination only. Until its legal; Its simple enough of an idea for a '4 year olds mentality', and will preserve genetic resources. I know you understand this, and I know you want to sell seeds. Its unfortunate that this is a dilemma for you.
TH:"My point is that you can not use the "it's a numbers game" when it's convenient, then tuck all that back in your pocket again when it suits."
>>>>I dont know what you mean. When did I say it was NOT a numbers game? "
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please comment Tom.
p.s. fishing was good. The BIOLOGISTS who manage the fishery are allowing anglers to keep 5 hatchery steelhead per day because the run is so huge.
TomHill:"Tom Hill:"The fact is that germplasm I have spent decades collecting and maintaining stands a better chance today than it did one year ago in regards to its existence in the future."
>>>Your hackjobs are out there more than if youd not released them into the stream, but they are not contributing positively to the overall health of the pool. You have in fact re-released germplasm that was already in the pool, and once may have been genetically distant, and sold it out into the stream of speed hacks. They have already integrated your '14th cousin' genes into their speed hackjobs, and made them 1st cousins to their speed hacked polyhybrids. One more generation of amateur breeding and they will be SIBLINGS. Nothing good came from doing that. come on!
TomHill:"More than 50% of this "gene pool" we have on this site is still likely derived from a very small handful of lines -like 3-4 haha. Putting forward the notion that this IS the
gene pool ALL IN has a 100% probability of having me lmao - it would probably be tripled
with a couple more guys' collections lol."
>>Yea, laugh your ass off man. Like a fool does.. The fact is, sites, -and dabblers like you- that advocate hackjobs by amateurs have integrated nearly the entire globe's useful drug germplasm..- in SHORT ORDER too.
Look at all the land race seed now, that could have been held closer....now its being integrated by know-nothings who are only focused on hybridizing them to their other polyhybrids.
And I feel somewhat responsible for some of this.. You see, I have already gone down the road of EDUCATION of this community...MANY TIMES.... by way of "educating" them that the more genetic distance you have, the more successful you might be with your hybrids. Its exactly like the eXe/feminization..look at what happened from introducing that tool..more hacking; its exactly like The Backcrossing Method. Look what good came from that..more hacking; its like every thing that SHOULD be a carefully employed tool, but it CANT BE EMPLOYED IN THIS POLITICAL CLIMATE; so it becomes nothing more than another knife in the back of cannabis because they just dont have the freedom or the insight to employ these tools properly..... Like handing a 4 year old a loaded shotgun and telling them not to shoot anything with it. They will. You try and EDUCATE, to get them up to speed, and all that comes from it is more erosion. Thats why "education" is NOT key in this community. We need another avenue. Open Pollination only. Until its legal; Its simple enough of an idea for a '4 year olds mentality', and will preserve genetic resources. I know you understand this, and I know you want to sell seeds. Its unfortunate that this is a dilemma for you.
TH:"My point is that you can not use the "it's a numbers game" when it's convenient, then tuck all that back in your pocket again when it suits."
>>>>I dont know what you mean. When did I say it was NOT a numbers game? "
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please comment Tom.
p.s. fishing was good. The BIOLOGISTS who manage the fishery are allowing anglers to keep 5 hatchery steelhead per day because the run is so huge.
