Why do people get irritated when you ask what strain they're selling
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Excellent pics Tom!.....
......I surely hope that you NEVER give up the ghost.........and continue to breed fine cannabis!
....*and good luck to all of those other breeders/seedmakers out there.......if you don't at least try to make something outstanding, then you will never know if you actually can.....
......I surely hope that you NEVER give up the ghost.........and continue to breed fine cannabis!
....*and good luck to all of those other breeders/seedmakers out there.......if you don't at least try to make something outstanding, then you will never know if you actually can.....
We dont have to wait until cannabis is globally liberated to begin properly managing it. We can stop encouraging hackjobs by teaching people how to manage their populations via LOW REPRODUCTION.
'Low reproduction' means to make an effort to minimize poor breeding events.
In other words,
1.Stop breeding with inadequate small-scale practices, and only sexually reproduce the populations -AS NEEDED- to maintain viability.
2. When absolutely necessary, perform OPEN POLLINATION ONLY, of many plants.(as many as you are able; omit subvital plants) This will maintain genetic diversity in the seedlot. Reducing the numbers of sexual reproductions will also serve to minimize the inherent gene losses of small-population breeding.
Todays seedlots are mostly derived from successive generations of small M/F populations, accompanied by unfocused and/or poor selection, and very high selection pressures: A recipe for erosion and population degradation.
A paradigm shift toward open-pollination(OP). ..getting away from the current one that any stoner with a good heart and a couple plants can make cannabis seedline improvements. This will help us save the work that has been done and reduce further erosion. When the time comes for legal and free Cannabis, the gene pool will be genetically equipped to SURVIVE and IMPROVE.
Gypsy, you say that all you can do is continue facilitating the erosion machine? Aww, youre a better man than that.
Maybe you just need some ideas....
How about you set a date and only buy seeds from your 'pro' seedmakers who prove they made the seedlot with an open pollination or conservative scheme?
How about you discourage the erosion of the gene pool and begin the task of selling out(or gifting) the polyhybrid stuff and start offering only seedlots that you certify as produced under your new improved guidelines on seed making. If thats too much too soon, maybe announce that you want to buy open pollinated seedlots and give some out and let the people give feedback on these 'conservative seedlots'. Afterall, you are doing this because you CARE.
How about making the seedpacks 100 of the OP seedlots, so that buyers have a better situation in which to make sexual reproductions of their own, for preservation and of course, overgrowing? You would be dutifully fulfilling your mission to overgrow.
You have the perfect medium(Icmag) to fulfill the other part of your dream: It is here on the Internet that you would become world-reknowned for facilitating an unselfish effort toward global Cannabis conservation. You wont be a dirty, greasy, greedy seed slinger. Oh no..Youll be the caring and compassionate Gypsy Nirvana, THE guy who only wants to get cannabis seeds out to the world's cannabists, and who even took a financial hit to make it happen. Because you CARE. You CARE.
'Low reproduction' means to make an effort to minimize poor breeding events.
In other words,
1.Stop breeding with inadequate small-scale practices, and only sexually reproduce the populations -AS NEEDED- to maintain viability.
2. When absolutely necessary, perform OPEN POLLINATION ONLY, of many plants.(as many as you are able; omit subvital plants) This will maintain genetic diversity in the seedlot. Reducing the numbers of sexual reproductions will also serve to minimize the inherent gene losses of small-population breeding.
Todays seedlots are mostly derived from successive generations of small M/F populations, accompanied by unfocused and/or poor selection, and very high selection pressures: A recipe for erosion and population degradation.
A paradigm shift toward open-pollination(OP). ..getting away from the current one that any stoner with a good heart and a couple plants can make cannabis seedline improvements. This will help us save the work that has been done and reduce further erosion. When the time comes for legal and free Cannabis, the gene pool will be genetically equipped to SURVIVE and IMPROVE.
Gypsy, you say that all you can do is continue facilitating the erosion machine? Aww, youre a better man than that.
Maybe you just need some ideas....
How about you set a date and only buy seeds from your 'pro' seedmakers who prove they made the seedlot with an open pollination or conservative scheme?
How about you discourage the erosion of the gene pool and begin the task of selling out(or gifting) the polyhybrid stuff and start offering only seedlots that you certify as produced under your new improved guidelines on seed making. If thats too much too soon, maybe announce that you want to buy open pollinated seedlots and give some out and let the people give feedback on these 'conservative seedlots'. Afterall, you are doing this because you CARE.
How about making the seedpacks 100 of the OP seedlots, so that buyers have a better situation in which to make sexual reproductions of their own, for preservation and of course, overgrowing? You would be dutifully fulfilling your mission to overgrow.
You have the perfect medium(Icmag) to fulfill the other part of your dream: It is here on the Internet that you would become world-reknowned for facilitating an unselfish effort toward global Cannabis conservation. You wont be a dirty, greasy, greedy seed slinger. Oh no..Youll be the caring and compassionate Gypsy Nirvana, THE guy who only wants to get cannabis seeds out to the world's cannabists, and who even took a financial hit to make it happen. Because you CARE. You CARE.
Utopian some of it, shysters will buy then break-up 100 seed packs into 10packs for resale I'd guess. But yeah, wide open let's see breeding ops from folks not some corner pic with a story etc. How about widdle some of this random mess down to some lines too for cried pete -let some of them fail, or, only my inferior lines deserve to die? -T
Sounds like you are dealing with the wrong ppl... most Dealers nah care what strain it is,, as long you cross their palm with papers.
The only way to be 100% sure is to grow your own!!!
Hope this helps
OK....VanXant....
...since you are obviously into cannabis conservation and seem to have the requisite knowledge to be able to pass on and accomplish this I am willing to offer you your own forum on ICM.com to be able to further better breeding practices amongst all breeders/seedmakers...
Let's look at this as a long term project with you at the helm, assisted by my services..
Are you up for it?
Could prove VERY interesting and at the same time help many that make seeds or want to make seeds knowledgeable enough to be able to facilitate this properly......the proof as always will be in the growing and the end product.......
...since you are obviously into cannabis conservation and seem to have the requisite knowledge to be able to pass on and accomplish this I am willing to offer you your own forum on ICM.com to be able to further better breeding practices amongst all breeders/seedmakers...
Let's look at this as a long term project with you at the helm, assisted by my services..
Are you up for it?
Could prove VERY interesting and at the same time help many that make seeds or want to make seeds knowledgeable enough to be able to facilitate this properly......the proof as always will be in the growing and the end product.......
Gypsy, I think you should open up a "by invite only" forum for breeders like Chimera and Vanxant so they can lay it down without it all getting lost in a slew of junk. This forum should be read only to the public, many would appreciate it. It's a mess, and a condensed version would greatly benefit the community. -Tom
I hear you Tom.....but if VanXant takes me up on this offer he/she would be able to Moderate the forum and so could remove any posts that are inflammatory or off topic...
I would rather have the forum open to anyone that wished to make seeds properly and not discriminate...
We could always condense it in Stickys's that have been edited and checked over......
....thinking of a name for it now....Hmmm.....maybe 'Better Breeding Practices?'
*So VanXant.....you are into cannabis conservation and realise that ICMAG.COM is an important site that could be instrumental in keeping breeders/seedmakers from 'pissing in the genepool'.......but you are not willing to put the time and effort into helping those out that might need it?
.....awww....come on man!
I would rather have the forum open to anyone that wished to make seeds properly and not discriminate...
We could always condense it in Stickys's that have been edited and checked over......
....thinking of a name for it now....Hmmm.....maybe 'Better Breeding Practices?'
*So VanXant.....you are into cannabis conservation and realise that ICMAG.COM is an important site that could be instrumental in keeping breeders/seedmakers from 'pissing in the genepool'.......but you are not willing to put the time and effort into helping those out that might need it?
.....awww....come on man!
Haha ,, that's a classic
Dont think anyone can really argue with that,, jah bless Gypsy
To add,, as a Breeder of true-breeding vegitable 'strains' ,, we'd say that maintaining true-breeding cannabis 'varieties' is a LOT more difficult,, a completely different ball game in fact,, cannabis involves twice as much work... since the variables in selection are so much more detailed and the outcome far more complex.
As said before (by Gypsy),, "inbreeding is the real skill of any breeder". This is why we foremost respect breeders that only work with a few strains consistantly ,, in this respect we rate Growdoc as among the very best... he's on top of his game.
...what you see is what you get!
This is an important topic of discussion, with great consequences for humankind's relationship with Cannabis, (hopefully) for centuries or millennia to come.
What is certain is that our current methodology for handling the situation is not sufficient; rather it is undeniably damaging to the species we attempt to protect. This is not something unique to cannabis- a look at global climate change evidences our human tendency to engage in denial rather than attempt the seemingly impossible.
Personally, my first step is an open pollination in every breeding program I enter. Preservation i of the resource is paramount. I've always collected my seedlots in large samples, and luckily I have had the resources available to do so.
In a discussion like this, IDEALISM is an effective tool when we attempt to discuss the possible solutions and 'workable plans', but when it comes times to put an effectice plan into place we must shift towards an approach of REALISM. We need something that can replace our current methodologies, and still provide the end user with the product that they demand. It would be ignorant to forget that the end user drives the market (and thus our practices) through DEMAND- we can't effectuate change on the supply side of the equation unless all suppliers are willing to play ball... and we have seen over and over again that, in actual fact, they are not.
This is why I was so struck with the idea of Artificial Seeds when I first learned about it in other crops; and have been surprised that I have never seen one reference to the technique wrt cannabis other than my own work or the 'supposed' work of others who's interest in the process was clearly derived from my discovery of the technique. It is a workable concept that can put a dent in the hacking because it provides an alternative. I've been working on perfecting the artificial cannabis seed for nearly a decade now, and at this point the only thing that is holding me back is the legality if distribution. I have enough 'near ideal' genotypes to suit any particular need a cannabis cultivator or consumer may have, and I'm sure once the technology makes its way to market more genotypes will be made available for release.
The question is will this stop the hacking? I don't think so... as we know an object (or practice) in motion tends to stay in motion.... and it will take some very big steps from the global cannabis community as a whole to effectuate change with regards to our damaging practices.
We are making progress however, if only in the sense that more people are now aware of the problem, and the discussion is taking place... and there is really one person that can take any kind of credit for that. I too have learned much from 'surly' ol'pnwf, and am very thankful for the doors he has opened for me.
However we need to continue to work together to effectuate positive change both with regards to genetic conservation and the cessation of the horrible genetic degradation that is currently taking place, as well as legalization because ultimately, the criminality of cannabis not only restricts our personal freedoms, but acts as a driving force behind the market pressures that restrict the cultivation and propagation of cannabis primarily via clonal means, and the development of new TRUE varieties.
-Chimera
What is certain is that our current methodology for handling the situation is not sufficient; rather it is undeniably damaging to the species we attempt to protect. This is not something unique to cannabis- a look at global climate change evidences our human tendency to engage in denial rather than attempt the seemingly impossible.
Personally, my first step is an open pollination in every breeding program I enter. Preservation i of the resource is paramount. I've always collected my seedlots in large samples, and luckily I have had the resources available to do so.
In a discussion like this, IDEALISM is an effective tool when we attempt to discuss the possible solutions and 'workable plans', but when it comes times to put an effectice plan into place we must shift towards an approach of REALISM. We need something that can replace our current methodologies, and still provide the end user with the product that they demand. It would be ignorant to forget that the end user drives the market (and thus our practices) through DEMAND- we can't effectuate change on the supply side of the equation unless all suppliers are willing to play ball... and we have seen over and over again that, in actual fact, they are not.
This is why I was so struck with the idea of Artificial Seeds when I first learned about it in other crops; and have been surprised that I have never seen one reference to the technique wrt cannabis other than my own work or the 'supposed' work of others who's interest in the process was clearly derived from my discovery of the technique. It is a workable concept that can put a dent in the hacking because it provides an alternative. I've been working on perfecting the artificial cannabis seed for nearly a decade now, and at this point the only thing that is holding me back is the legality if distribution. I have enough 'near ideal' genotypes to suit any particular need a cannabis cultivator or consumer may have, and I'm sure once the technology makes its way to market more genotypes will be made available for release.
The question is will this stop the hacking? I don't think so... as we know an object (or practice) in motion tends to stay in motion.... and it will take some very big steps from the global cannabis community as a whole to effectuate change with regards to our damaging practices.
We are making progress however, if only in the sense that more people are now aware of the problem, and the discussion is taking place... and there is really one person that can take any kind of credit for that. I too have learned much from 'surly' ol'pnwf, and am very thankful for the doors he has opened for me.
However we need to continue to work together to effectuate positive change both with regards to genetic conservation and the cessation of the horrible genetic degradation that is currently taking place, as well as legalization because ultimately, the criminality of cannabis not only restricts our personal freedoms, but acts as a driving force behind the market pressures that restrict the cultivation and propagation of cannabis primarily via clonal means, and the development of new TRUE varieties.
-Chimera
The term strain is not applied to plants any longer, and has not been used by the academic community with regard to plants for over half a century.
The term variety is also not suitable, because the vast majority of cannabis seedlots are not genetically stable enough, or sufficiently defined or true to type to be considered a variety.
edit: Cheers amigo... it's always a pleasure to see you take up the fight, and I must again thank you for helping set me on the correct path.
The term variety is also not suitable, because the vast majority of cannabis seedlots are not genetically stable enough, or sufficiently defined or true to type to be considered a variety.
edit: Cheers amigo... it's always a pleasure to see you take up the fight, and I must again thank you for helping set me on the correct path.
Nice post Chimera
"Hacking" is often the result if experimenting with otherwise condemned male plants. Moreover if someone has 'purchased' a seed line,, then they then own it ,, and can do with it as they wish.
Breeding plants together is one of the most un-natural things we can do as human beings,, (should be left to the birds and the bees),, but as gardeners it is a most natural pursuit.
One love!
"Hacking" is often the result if experimenting with otherwise condemned male plants. Moreover if someone has 'purchased' a seed line,, then they then own it ,, and can do with it as they wish.
Breeding plants together is one of the most un-natural things we can do as human beings,, (should be left to the birds and the bees),, but as gardeners it is a most natural pursuit.
One love!
VanXant....I have thought about it and realize that we DO need people like you ONBOARD to have a chance of making what you fear not happen....
So rather than criticism of what I and others might do......how about actively participating and being at the helm of cannabis conservation here on the site?
.....Looks like a win-win situation for growers/breeders and seedmakers from my point of view.......
So rather than criticism of what I and others might do......how about actively participating and being at the helm of cannabis conservation here on the site?
.....Looks like a win-win situation for growers/breeders and seedmakers from my point of view.......
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Are the people spraying clones to make feminized seeds breeding? or just making seeds?
If the latter is the case then,, many professional breeders these days,, are simply seedmakers. Conservation of clones then seems to be more important to many "breeders" than actually breeding seeds from seed stocks,, to make seeds. Often so people can make clones with them later... like a botanical circle
Practise makes perfect...
If the latter is the case then,, many professional breeders these days,, are simply seedmakers. Conservation of clones then seems to be more important to many "breeders" than actually breeding seeds from seed stocks,, to make seeds. Often so people can make clones with them later... like a botanical circle
Practise makes perfect...
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