Why do people get irritated when you ask what strain they're selling

[lost in a sea]

vanxant write a book or something, because you saying the same demonising crap over and over interwoven with your knowledge, helps no one, especially not cannabis, and just makes people tune off to whatever "good" points you have.

but please explain to us all again how gypsy is hacking anything?

you might argue some of the breeders are hacking (which i dont think they are) but not gypsy.

you obviously do know the legal climate surrounding ganja in most parts of the world, that is really the reason why the gene pool has always gone the way it has gone, and that has nowt to do with gypsy, we need a top vendor like GN, we also need new or old breeders to go back to the drawing board and maybe do some work with landraces instead of chemdog crosses.

i am very worried about the amount of people that want to make and sell beans in recent years, and i hope the guys at GN make sure any new breeders do know how to produce viable seeds.

some of these kids that want to breed need telling that not only are they probably not good enough growers to breed, but also that if they dont put some hard work in in selection and testing, then no one will want to buy their armchair bred crap!

but yet still a delerious generation of wanna be superstar breeders marches forth, and they will do the real damage. imo comparatively ganja is genetically well off compared to the upcoming decades and as i have said i think better education of the younger community here on icmag is the only way. get them working in the right areas, to prevent a future large scale genetic narrowing.

 

[Lazyman]

I have a friend that has grown outdoors for years. This year I gave him Catpiss and OGKA. He gave me the "I don't care what name somebody gave it" look. I pointed to his PBT and reminded him names mean everything when it comes to breeding or just wanting to know what you have. I watched the light turn on over his head. Even after he had the chance to sample both strains, he still considers names a novelty.

Next year, he'll get some info on selection and crossing. Sooner than later, he'll realize how important it is to keep up with what ya have, especially if you attempt to replicate future grows.

I've met guys like that, but I kept it to just once. Folks that don't appreciate the craft and breeding don't deserve either in my opinion, if you want shit weed for cheap go buy some brick.

I think some of it is "hand me down" info, buncha stoners can't keep stuff straight after it changes hands a few times.

 

[DocLeaf]

The botanical conservation of landrace, ibl and heirloom cultigens ,, and the medical conservation of hybridized cultigens ,, are of equal importance to the global cannabis community!

Btw.. some ppl dont mention the name of the variety they are slinging because they dont hold much interest in hype.. and/or dont wish to promote cannabis as a marketed product in their neighborhood... and in some cases , who could blame them,, with such dramatic inflation over named varieties!

 

[headband 707]

Tom,

You have it right.
Im talking about open pollination with low to NO selection. The purpose of the change is to facilitate genetic diversity and nothing more. Culling clearly undesirable/unfit individuals would be part of it.
This is the important paradigm shift over typical modern commercial seed breedings.... because the entire focus is on the diversity being maintained, not reduced.

The diversity from OP populations will serve to increase the opportunities for unique genotypes to arise for growers. In contrast, poor selections from small populations LIMIT genetic options for growers and breeders because of the exclusionary breeding methods.
Growers will "request" an OPed seedlot over what they are getting now, once they are up to speed on the benefits of a diverse seedlot. Growers dont have genetically stable seeds now, and they do not seem to notice or care. Gypsy will still fuel his site and his lifestyle, and seedmakers will adapt, or get out of the seed racket. Cannabis will be more able to adapt and to be improved in the future. Thats a win'win'win or GTFO situation.

By "SC" do you mean single crosses? If so, then sure..., after complying with a standard set forth, by Gypsy.

cookie monster:"What is the point in debating the issue any further?

Gypsy has offered you your own slot on this site why not take advantage of his offer.
Help to educate people, who cares if it seems a tad hypocritical."

>>>> Probably no point in arguing with Gypsy about it any more, I agree. I hope he is willing to make some changes.

Uhh,... I never wanted a forum. That was Gypsy's idea.

Gypsy,
Its not that I couldnt be "bothered" with genetic conservation, come ON. I bet youd never even heard the words put together until I started talking about it years ago...

Its because the problem is something you have control over and are apparently not willing to explore any further. ????
I gave you some good ideas, man. You just pissed on em..haha...yep, like it was a cannabis gene pool.

How about it Gypsy? No more of these hack jobs for profit, man...its almost 2010...50 years of shit seedmaking now....how much more do you think cannabis should take of this shit?

Please consider it.

Do you know that in MY NEW FORUM, the first thread will be a plea to Gypsy Nirvana to stop the hacking? ..in which we continue this discussion until you probably close it or make it invisible or some shit like that....lol

Van smoke a joint and come on back to earth here with the rest of us lol lol ... I think you know your being a shit lol.. but your talking about a very big operation that takes lots of $ and time .. you know it and I know it.. But your right I'm assuming someone is doing this in some country or were fucked..This seed is like all seeds and it needs to be preserved peace out Headband707

 

[headband 707]

Isn't even that selection, subjective to the individuals opinion ?
If I had 3000 seeds from one strain, gave 3 people 1000 seeds each.
I do not believe these 3 people would select the same pheno traits.

Yes I think this would be the hardest part right here!!! I have smoked around so many ppl my tolerance is off the hook . I know that most ppl don't smoke as much pot as I do or as strong . So this would have to be somthing to think about. The levels of ppls tolerances etc. Yes lots of 1000 . The real question is when you get these polyploids like I have right now and if this happens to be something special ei. 30% thc where do I go from here?? peace out Headband707

 

[Barney Fife]

Calling for a global puff break. Timeout.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Im talking about open pollination with low to NO selection. The purpose of the change is to facilitate genetic diversity and nothing more. Culling clearly undesirable/unfit individuals would be part of it.
This is the important paradigm shift over typical modern commercial seed breedings.... because the entire focus is on the diversity being maintained, not reduced.

Culling any plant seems to be against your diversity goal.... sounds like you have some issues with your own theory. Would you like to explain how selecting "clearly undesirable/unfit individuals" fits in with this conservation of which you speak?

 

[mean mr.mustard]

So that is real plant breeding... why is it that you think that nobody else does this?

 

[Tom Hill]

VanXant,

Yeah I was speaking of single cross hybrids.

Where is the other half of this plan, the yin to go with the yang? Are you suggesting that all these muddled-up polyhybrids should be maintained and offered with an eye to conservation genetics? In corn (and in stark contrast to what we have here) no less than hundreds of new inbred lines are developed each year by way of intensive inbreeding be it backcross or pedigree/selfing methods. Do you not feel that increasing (somewhat, at the very least) the frequency of favorable alleles should precede the type of maintenance you are suggesting? I do.

As far as Gypsy policing what happens I think you are being much more than a tad bit optimistic as far as the change you imagine this would bring. We must police ourselves, the responsibility is ours in my opinion along with the educated customer. There are folks breeding here that could improve their understanding of what they're doing and don't seem to care to, true. At the same time Gypsy does require new breeders to at least demonstrate a demand for their product before he'll do biz with them I think. As well, he offers this site where education can and does take place. I assure you that the vast majority of retailers don't bother with either of the above.

Education is the key in my opinion, but lol I don't blame you one bit for not wanting the job beyond what you already do for the community. -Tom

 

[The End Is Near]

I've never seen so many high profile members trolled this hard. Why is anyone taking vanxant seriously? Who is he? Someone from a rival site/breeding company? Just looked at some of his other posts, like recommending hemp for a med patient, and that says all I need to know.

 

[Tom Hill]

VanXant is an extremely talented cannabis researcher and in a league of very few. He has opened many folks' eyes over the years myself included on many subjects - probably my favorite online author of all time. He's something of a loose cannon though haha - a product of his frustration regarding the state of things. I think Gypsy understands this or would have never afforded him the incredible amount of slack that he has afforded him thus far. It is difficult to have a sense of humor about or take lightly what's happening to our cannabis gene pool for those actually paying attention. We all agree on the desired goals I think, but disagree on how to achieve them. Thoughtless breeders will always find a place to sling their products - education is the key. -Tom

 

[Owl Mirror]

VanXant is an extremely talented cannabis researcher and in a league of very few. He has opened many folks' eyes over the years myself included on many subjects - probably my favorite online author of all time. He's something of a loose cannon though haha - a product of his frustration regarding the state of things. I think Gypsy understands this or would have never afforded him the incredible amount of slack that he has afforded him thus far. It is difficult to have a sense of humor about or take lightly what's happening to our cannabis gene pool for those actually paying attention. We all agree on the desired goals I think, but disagree on how to achieve them. Thoughtless breeders will always find a place to sling their products - education is the key. -Tom

Hello Tom, while I do not know any of the people in this thread, I agreed with this VanXant up until he became demeaning of others efforts.

I posed a question in my comment, as well as having posed it elsewhere and not one person has ever responded to it.

One step I have thought this community should support is preserving the range of landrace strains by submitting seeds to the Millennium Seed Bank Project

Perhaps through the inter-connections in this global community, IC.mag members could organize an effort towards this goal ?

In collaboration with other biodiversity projects around the world expeditions are sent to collect seeds from dryland plants. Where possible collections are kept in the country of origin with duplicates being sent to the Millennium Seed Bank Project for storage. Major partnerships exist on all the continents, enabling the countries involved to meet international objectives such as the Global Strategy for Plant Conservation and the Millennium Development Goals of the United Nations Environment Programme.

I grow inside a closet, naturally I am limited to what variety I get in any breeding project. If I have 4 females and four males, I've still limited the gene pool according to Vanxant. Should I stop what I'm doing because my efforts are not as wide ranging and all inclusive as is being promoted as Conservation of landrace strains?
If I am unable to grow out 1000 females with an equal amount of males, I should not get in to this as a hobby because I might cause more harm than good ?

 

[Owl Mirror]

like recommending hemp for a med patient, ...

Actually, the higher CBD content found in Hemp is thought to offer a greater pain medication possibility than higher THC content.

 

[Tom Hill]

Hi Owl Mirror,

He by no means has the market cornered, have you never read Vic High, Chimera, Sam Skunkman, etc, etc? They all dish out good and plenty what I'm sure they all would refer to as tough love. I am not immune either even though I am less knowledgeable than those mentioned. Again, I think it is frustration that this is born out of. They all care very deeply about cannabis, and are justifiably offended that some of us dare to toy with the gene pool without first caring enough to educate ourselves about what we are doing. It's more than worth it to look past their jabs and actually absorb what they are saying. CharlesX would be one I've seen having the same caliber of knowledge as these guys but at the same time shows an incredible amount of self discipline when speaking to others.

Regarding the seed bank project. I am unsure what you are suggesting but many of us maintain our own seed banks and in todays environment I think this is best. Jeeze, I can't even get the neighbors to agree that it's time to grade the road, lol.

Does hobby imply non-professional? I can't imagine anybody having problems with you making your own seed regardless of how you go about it but I could be wrong. -Tom

 

[unclefishstick]

a very humble stance for someone who has done so much for the gene pool Mr Hill,marijuana changes us as much as we change it.

 

[bat1327]

I'm not sure who said it (might have been patton) "standing still is not an option" In other words you can either bitch or do something about it (and no one wants to hear you bitch)

 

[headband 707]

Cuz they're basically honest people and you're asking them to lie to you! They usually don't have a clue.

I like the "Cuz they are basically honest dealers part" lol lol peace out Headband707

 

[headband 707]

Well lets face it how are we going to start this if we are not all on board with ppl that have the stock and the know how time and resources to accomplish this. That starts with a thought and thought leads to action . Someone needs to take the ball and run with it and I'm sure Jah will make sure the rest will fall into place if your doing it for the right reasons peace out Headband707

"The Botany of Desire" on KCTS9 at 9:00 pm pmt

 

[kopite]

Education is the key in my opinion, but lol I don't blame you one bit for not wanting the job beyond what you already do for the community. -Tom

I agree education is the key, but theres not enough of it going on !!! for every Charles X, Chimara, VanXant, SamS, and yourself theres too many against the flow, we as a community need it now more than ever


Kopite

 

[StrictlyGateway]

I've met guys like that, but I kept it to just once. Folks that don't appreciate the craft and breeding don't deserve either in my opinion, if you want shit weed for cheap go buy some brick.

names aren't just names. somebody needs to smoke bricks and beasters too, but it ain't gonna be me, so it might as well be them....