Fungal Teas During Flowering

[charles_bronson]

I've been relying only on teas and ammendments for this past grow, and so far all is well. I have been feeding aerobic bacterial teas from ewc/kelp/molasses/guano but I'm getting into flowering now and I thought I had read you must a fungal tea about halfway on in flowering for best results.
From what I've gathering from Teaming With Microbes (real lean on the info, imo) fungus will make Phosphorus more available, while leaving Nitrogen as Ammonium instead of converting them into Nitrates.
Here's my question, do my plants want their N to be in ammonia form during the back end of the bud cycle? Are fungal teas going to make P more available? I have some Myco, would it help to add in at the end of the brew cycle? Or is it best to prewet some mushroom compost with some oats in water for a few days, then add that in and brew for 24-48 hours? Also, I got rid of my Humic Acid when i threw out most all my bottles trying to go totally organic, but it seems like it may help with the fungal count in the tea. Should I get some more, and if so, any recommendations on something that'll do a good job. Let me know if I'm not making sense or I'm way off base...

 

[CT Guy]

Charles,

Don't have much time right now, but wanted to write a quick response.

1. The myco should be added at the beginning when you planted or transplanted. This will increase the uptake of P from the soil.

2. Make a balanced tea that contains all the proper organisms. This lets the plant choose what microbes will be most successful in the rhizosphere and on the leaf surface.

3. Humic acid may or may not be beneficial. I'd look into other amendments first like seaweed for example.

 

[maryjohn]

Hey CT guy, when you got a minute, can you explain why fungal teas are recommended for perennials? I'm not doing it now, but it is worth it to keep a fungal pile?

 

[charles_bronson]

ctguy, thanks for the response. by seaweed, do you mean using something other than the kelp (maxicrop) i've been using?
are there sufficent fungal colonies in the worm castings i'm using to duplicate in a tea, or are castings primarily bacterial? further, were can i get castings or humus with detailed bacteria/fungus info?

 

[Clackamas Coot]

ctguy, thanks for the response. by seaweed, do you mean using something other than the kelp (maxicrop) i've been using?
are there sufficent fungal colonies in the worm castings i'm using to duplicate in a tea, or are castings primarily bacterial? further, were can i get castings or humus with detailed bacteria/fungus info?

charles_bronson

Maxicrop will work fine for making a compost tea.

The quality of the castings will determine the levels of the various microbes. I know of one company in Yelm, Washington which had their castings analyzed by the Soil Food Web folks which you can see here

Not all companies packaging up worm castings have done that (had their castings tested) but if they do then you'll be starting with a known (hopefully) product.

HTH

CC

 

[CT Guy]

The Yelm product I know is a manure based compost. In theory the worms will process any pathogens. For our business we stay away from all manure based composts just to be on the safe side. But CC is right in that you want to see BIOLOGICAL testing on compost (or do it yourself) when using it to make compost tea.

As for seaweed, Maxicrop would work fine, though I'm convinced there are better and more cost effective seaweed products on the market. You want cold water processed ascophyllum nodosum.

Another WA source for EWC that does not use manure is Kitsap EZ Earth. I did some preliminary testing with their material and it looked okay even though my sample was a bit dried out when I received it.

I think there's more fungal content in EWC that it gets credit for, but this will vary based on what addition foods you add to it and also what you feed the worms.

The reason fungal teas are recommended for perennials is because they prefer fungally-dominant soil. Google "plant succession chart" for more info. on that. However, I still believe that compost tea should be balanced and contain all the proper organisms. Let the plant choose what microbes it wants to be successful around its roots.

 

[Microbeman]

I still believe that compost tea should be balanced and contain all the proper organisms. Let the plant choose what microbes it wants to be successful around its roots.

Amen brother! Fungal soils are different than fungal teas.

 

[charles_bronson]

Amen brother! Fungal soils are different than fungal teas.

hmm. got me thinkin. im in a fungal soil, so i'm not sure how concerned I need to be about fungal teas. if anything, looking at the Peace of Mind Fruit and Flower box, i might need to try and get my bacteria up to par. i may be more fungal than i thought, especially with the forest humus in my soil mix.

 

[maryjohn]

hmm. got me thinkin. im in a fungal soil, so i'm not sure how concerned I need to be about fungal teas. if anything, looking at the Peace of Mind Fruit and Flower box, i might need to try and get my bacteria up to par. i may be more fungal than i thought, especially with the forest humus in my soil mix.

what else is in there? If you start with fungal dominated soil/compost, then amend, doesn't the balance shift to bacteria dominated?

and thanks for the link, I will read up on this stuff. I loves me some learnin'.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Peace of Mind

Peace of Mind

Peace of Mind Fruit and Flower box

charles_bronson

Fox Farms Fertilizer took their 'Peace of Mind' product line, added some mycorrhizal fungi from Mycorrhiza and put it into their new & improved 'Happy Frog' product line. Much nicer graphics to boot if that's important to you.

You can get the exact same ingredients in their 'Fruit & Flower' product in the Happy Frog product line. Just look for the specific N-P-K of a Peace of Mind item in the Happy Frog listings.

HTH

CC

 

[charles_bronson]

there actually litereally the exact same. the peace of mind is FULL of myco all analyzed on the side of the box. im not partial to any particular product, it just makes me feel good to see fungal/basterial analysis. and if i can spend $6 and get complete npk, micros, benes, and ph balanced all in one box, im sold. seems cheaper than a box of bone, a box of blood, ect. all at $6 a box. plus im liking the gentle release of n during flowering keeping anything from yellowing early.

 

[maryjohn]

Amen brother! Fungal soils are different than fungal teas.

Can you explain? I always figured fungal tea was just tea you make with a fungal dominated compost.

 

[charles_bronson]

Can you explain? I always figured fungal tea was just tea you make with a fungal dominated compost.

I wouldnt mind further clarification as well. how much tea would it actually take to turn a bacteria-dominant compost into a fungal dominant compost or does it all come back to how the compost was prepared with microbial foods that benefit one or the other??

 

[grady]

http://vermicrop.com


expessive to get started brewing but if your hydro store brews it its $13 a qt. I love this stuff! I tested it after the expiration date on some dying house plants, & came back to full health I was amazed---check it out

 

[charles_bronson]

http://vermicrop.com


expessive to get started brewing but if your hydro store brews it its $13 a qt. I love this stuff! I tested it after the expiration date on some dying house plants, & came back to full health I was amazed---check it out

looks decent and hassle free to start off with, but i have a 45l/m air pump (probably about 5X the strength of the one in the kit), 5 gallon buckets, a cubic foot bag of ewc, a bottle of molasses, box of kelp, and a couple bags of guano. hell if i cant make a better tea than they're selling id be shocked. 13 for a quart of that would KILL the bank, as i use between 5-20 gallons of tea per week (not just for bomb, but for my huge outdoor garden)
plus i like the idea of being able to tinker with bacteria/fungal levels, the key to it all it seems

 

[grady]

If this helps: 75ml per gal: thats about 10 to 15 gal per qt "est" so say, 40 gal times 5: so ruffly 200g from the 5 g cartridge

 

[charles_bronson]

ohh. thats a little more reasonable. i didn't understand it was to be diluted. my bad. but still too expensive for my purposes

 

[Microbeman]

I wouldnt mind further clarification as well. how much tea would it actually take to turn a bacteria-dominant compost into a fungal dominant compost or does it all come back to how the compost was prepared with microbial foods that benefit one or the other??

First; Mary John,

Certainly if you use a compost/vermicompost with a high fungal content you will likely extract and grow fungal hyphae in a properly made tea. As I stated in a thread just recently though, the predominent species of fungi in compost is a degrader type. That is it's purpose in the compost and in the soil; to break down substances (like cellulose) into compounds which are then devoured by other fungi or bacteria/archaea and so on. Most of these species are fungi-imperfecti (not forming fruiting bodies above the soil). For the most part these types of fungi provide nutrients to plants indirectly as already described. They also provide pathways, bind soil particles for water retention, protect other fungi species, prevent growth of other fungi species, etc. These are their values. In soil, especially forest soil a large portion and probably most fungi are fungi-perfecti (forming fruiting bodies above the soil), basidiomycota being a major group. Many of these species, not only are degraders but are also mycorrhizal, delivering nutrients to plants (mostly trees) directly. So a fungal soil (from my perspective) is dominated by these species of fungi, while a fungal compost or compost tea is dominated by fungi which function in different fashion. There are some of the fungi perfecti which will grow in compost (and in your garden) and indeed commercial mushroom growers do a good job of inoculating compost with specific spores for this purpose. Usually the compost needs to be free of other fungi for maximum success.

Anyway, you could brew fungal tea until blue in the face and (unless you learn some inoculation methods) you won't turn your soil to what I have outlined as a fungal dominated soil. You are better to use mycorrhizal spores at planting time and get some gourmet mushroom kits to mix into your garden. (This is to the best of my knowledge and my knowledge is not perfect)

Charles Bronson,

Wouldn't you be going in circles, brewing tea from compost to add back to the compost you made the tea from? Probably best to just use a large diversity of inputs to make your compost/vermicompost remembering your C:N ratio.

 

[maryjohn]

wow, thanks Microbe! I love learning.

 

[quadracer]

Anyway, you could brew fungal tea until blue in the face and (unless you learn some inoculation methods) you won't turn your soil to what I have outlined as a fungal dominated soil. You are better to use mycorrhizal spores at planting time and get some gourmet mushroom kits to mix into your garden. (This is to the best of my knowledge and my knowledge is not perfect)

Charles Bronson,

Wouldn't you be going in circles, brewing tea from compost to add back to the compost you made the tea from? Probably best to just use a large diversity of inputs to make your compost/vermicompost remembering your C:N ratio.

Lots of good info Microbeman!

To add:

I just recently made my usual tea for the plants with compost and EWC. Right now too there is a species of Scleroderma that is fruiting practically right next to the brewer, and since it is mycorrhizal and sporing right now, I happily added the spores to the tea. A few mushrooms quickly left the top of the tea with a skin of spores!

At the very least, this is adding additional fungal possibilities to the tea than was before. My compost may contain some spores from this species, but is mostly dominated by the carbon decayers. (I would love to innoculate my compost with (Clitocybe nuda, or the blewit).

The spores definitely have a good chance of innoculating in the soil. I added them at the very in, and they will have plenty of water to use from the tea.