Swiss- Leagalize HEROIN but not WEED

[BobbleheadJed]

i agree there are good things coming from taking it off the black market, but im not in favor of making it easier to get heroin. i appreciate that some people here dont chew me up for thinking legalization of HEROIN is not the brightest or most responsible idea.

Making heroin easier to get legally wipes out the black market. You can't have it both ways. Do you want the violence of the black market with Pablo Escobar as their dealer on the streets, or do you want it easier to get from a clinic with licensed physicians and science and experience? I'd say one of those is a bright and responsible idea that is designed to help, and the other is an obtuse idea designed to control through punishment.

Legalization is actually a very intelligent and logical idea, not to mention a bright and responsible idea IF you are not obtuse. You called people believing in legalization stupid. You were wrong. You should appreciate it when they are nice while pointing out you were wrong, they aren't stupid and have a lot more thought and knowledge behind their position than you do.

 

[dankitydank]

i understand the reasoning behind legalization. and the good things that come with taking it off the market. im done arguing. heroin sucks. end of story.

 

[rebelweed]

Norway seems to be on the way to doing the same thing, legalizing heroin but not even discussing the insane cannabis laws. The police recently decided that they were going to "clean up the streets" of Oslo, and remove 4 of 5 open drug markets that had been allowed to prosper for the last year. The only market that will be allowed to continue as before is the hard drugs market, the 4 that are being closed are cannabis-only markets.

What strikes me as so very wrong with this approach, although I'm sure the intention - stopping kids from developing a drug problem - is good, is that it seems to give experimenting kids a push to become real hard drug users, just to escape the constant hassle of the police.

In my opinion, you can't have one without the other. You can't say that cannabis, with all its medical uses, should remain illegal and unavailable even to cancer patients, while handing out heroin to addicts. It creates a disrespect for the law, and will give cannabis users another reason to feel completely frozen out from society.

I really don't know what the solution is, heroin is a horrible drug. I wish there was a way we could help them to not use heroin, but perhaps in some cases it is an impossible undertaking..

 

[Pythagllio]

CoonHunter, thank you for those pictures. Your post is worthy of classification with alarmist, ONDCP propaganda. Actually, I'll wager you found those pics on a website devoted to prohibitionist propaganda. Have you considered that those nasty abscesses might have been caused by dirty needles and/or adulterated product, direct results of prohibition? Have you considered that shooting up is not the only way to take heroin? Did you know that heroin was sold over the counter in the US for decades before it was made illegal, and it was made illegal because of 'crazed Negros' and other such racist bull crap, not because Grandma was strung out on Bayer heroin and robbing the local candy store. I'll bet you didn't know that one of the dirty little secrets of drug rehab is that a significant number of overdoses are caused by abstinence, then having the unsophisticated user unaware that he can't shoot up the same dose that he used to shoot up safely. Oh, but the last thing is, you present these pictures as if the law prevents crap like you've presented in these pictures. If the law prevents it, where did you find those pics? Obviously, the law did nothing to prevent that man from fucking up his body like that. So what's you're point again?

I just recently learned something new myself. There are only 153,000 past month users of heroin in the US. That's less than 1/2 of 1% of the US population. Oh yes, 366,000 past year users. If it's so highly addictive, why have more users quit than use?

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/43
6. More than 100 million Americans have tried marijuana; 14.4 million Americans are estimated to be "past-month" users. Yet there are only an estimated 2,075,000 "past-month" users of cocaine and 153,000 "past-month" users of heroin.

also: http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/DrugFact/heroin/heroin_ff.html WARNING: website in preceding link operated by the enemy

 

[Fluke]

"LEGALIZING HEROIN???? how stupid do you have to be."

Stupid enough to want to help people, reduce the violence, reduce the harm, lessen the damage to society, and respect individual rights. The alternative to wanting to help people, prohibition, is a combination of Al Capone, Usama bin Laden, Manuel Noreiga, and Pablo Escobar taking the place of licensed physicians.

True, I do believe somthing similar is implemented in Portugal with great results.

 

[motaloca]

it is not like there are heroin coffe shops in Zurich.Heroin will be given only to serious addicts, they have to shoot up in front of their doctors or city clinics.
I have grown up around needle park when it was in its full swing. Lost 4 good friends to heroin. When we were 15 and started to smoke we had to get our hash( nobody then was smoking weed) from dealers around needle park, so hash and heroin was available at the same place. I remember how scarry it was to score some hash.
I think its great that finally they give out heroin instead of methadone.
Although still illegal weed and hash for personal use will hardly ever get you in trouble. Got caught once with 25g hash and all that happened was i had to flush it down the drain.

 

[motaloca]

.

 

[Kit]

it is not like there are heroin coffe shops in Zurich.Heroin will be given only to serious addicts, they have to shoot up in front of their doctors or city clinics.
I have grown up around needle park when it was in its full swing. Lost 4 good friends to heroin. When we were 15 and started to smoke we had to get our hash( nobody then was smoking weed) from dealers around needle park, so hash and heroin was available at the same place. I remember how scarry it was to score some hash.
I think its great that finally they give out heroin instead of methadone.
Although still illegal weed and hash for personal use will hardly ever get you in trouble. Got caught once with 25g hash and all that happened was i had to flush it down the drain.

I'm not that old but i voted yes on both, the prescription heroin and MJ decrim lol

I'm often high in the city and never had a problem, as long as you don't cause any trouble no one will come looking for you...

 

[Herbalistic]

I think this one big step forward for stoppin the criminal element associated with big H, IMHO!!!

However, this is a program that doesnt catch everyone, you have to be at those certified clinic´s everyday at the same time range, which isnt the most easy task for hc heroin user.. The health benefits are great for strugling ppl!

This aint going stop / vanish that blackmarket, because there always will be ppl that aint gonna make it to the program + 1-2 heroin shots aint gonna keep you high the whole day, when you got high tolerance to H you gotta shoot it repeatly throught the day to keep withdrawls from coming

My post may be little complicated/confusing, but methadone has it it´s benefits also (as it´s damages). It stays in your system about 24 H if taken orally and gets you of the needles, when the right dose is detirmined, you can actually live & work succesfully your whole life and give something back to the society! While heroin program like this is pointed to most hopeless case´s (I quess) I really dont think a young/new addict should go into this program before he/she has tryed other solutions like methadon, subutex etc..

In fact.. I think the best possible rehab- / maintenance -program for young/new addict should be done with subutex, not methadone that is way more addictive than heroin, but for those oldschool smackhead´s this would suite

Like mentioned before -> this isnt going to stop drug related crime, this model give´s hc addicts approval to continue their habits and free heroin! If you been shooting for the last ten years and learned how to support/fund the addiction, then you wont stop making money illegally when the goverment is actually supporting your drug use, so you dont have to put your grinded money into hroin.........

Anyways.. I can see the benefits&misbenefits of this program and the pro´s are on the winning side +

It is "good" as long they dont let young/new addicts into this program IMHO!

Just my about the subject..

Btw.. Criminilazing Cannabis sucks!!!

 

[VirginHarvester]

Maybe Heroin is too violent a drug to try and control- that if they do, they will have to fight desperate people who really really really gots to have it? Whereas, maybe they see MJ as something they can fight(LEO) and not have to feel like they are up against desperate, dangerous criminals but can still put it out there that they are helping society?

So from that point of view it's a little like someone looking for a fight to prove their worth and picking the harmless person to fight, just to put on a show. I know it's a stretch but WTF?

Perhaps the sad truth about MJ is too many people make money off fighting it, that somehow it's worth more to the powers that be fighting it than tolerating it... it's too easy a target, too vulnerable. Maybe it should be renamed Marilyn Monroe?

 

[Hazelnuts]

I live in Switzerland, and I had noticed the irony of this before seeing this thread, although the heroin isn't really "legalized", they can just give it to heavy addicts who would otherwise steal etc to get the money. I was pretty fucking disappointed when the weed bill got turned down.
EDIT: after reading some more of the thread, I noticed everything I said had more or less been pointed out before... Nice to see some more Swiss people on here btw!

 

[Kizzattack]

Bro...you are just being thick headed about this-- It is not open legalization for Junkies to run rampant through the City...it is opening the way for certified Clinics to disperse Heroin to Addicts that apply for, and are accepted to the program-- It makes much more sense to give Chronic Addicts (Who are going to do it anyways) free heroin...instead of Methadone...which is much more detrimental to the body...and 10 times as addictive--
Lend a Junkie a hand...and he might not steal your shit--

I haven't actually looked into this particular debate, but if your post is accurate and they're giving Heroin to addicts so that they don't have to take methadone or contaminated heroin, I think it's a good idea.

I've never had any real experience with heroin addicts (apart from getting chased by one once), but I watched a documentary a while ago that explored the life of a girl who was addicted to Heroin (I believe it was called Mum, Heroin and Me or something). The main problems she faced were caused by the prohibition and contamination of Heroin, rather than the substance itself.

 

[CoonLover]

CoonHunter, thank you for those pictures. Your post is worthy of classification with alarmist, ONDCP propaganda. Actually, I'll wager you found those pics on a website devoted to prohibitionist propaganda. Have you considered that those nasty abscesses might have been caused by dirty needles and/or adulterated product, direct results of prohibition? Have you considered that shooting up is not the only way to take heroin? Did you know that heroin was sold over the counter in the US for decades before it was made illegal, and it was made illegal because of 'crazed Negros' and other such racist bull crap, not because Grandma was strung out on Bayer heroin and robbing the local candy store. I'll bet you didn't know that one of the dirty little secrets of drug rehab is that a significant number of overdoses are caused by abstinence, then having the unsophisticated user unaware that he can't shoot up the same dose that he used to shoot up safely. Oh, but the last thing is, you present these pictures as if the law prevents crap like you've presented in these pictures. If the law prevents it, where did you find those pics? Obviously, the law did nothing to prevent that man from fucking up his body like that. So what's you're point again?

I just recently learned something new myself. There are only 153,000 past month users of heroin in the US. That's less than 1/2 of 1% of the US population. Oh yes, 366,000 past year users. If it's so highly addictive, why have more users quit than use?

Make you feel better?

Where did I find those pictures?
Here's the steps, type www.google.com, then type in heroin users, hit enter. Select Images and behold the pictures. Your wager was wrong dipshit!
Ya I know ALL about the history of drugs is the United States. Ya Sears used to sell heroin kits via mail order.
Go preach to a different crowd.

No one made you look nor read my post.

 

[REDEYE_420]

What about IBOGAINE as a treatment?

What about IBOGAINE as a treatment?

Bro...you are just being thick headed about this-- It is not open legalization for Junkies to run rampant through the City...it is opening the way for certified Clinics to disperse Heroin to Addicts that apply for, and are accepted to the program-- It makes much more sense to give Chronic Addicts (Who are going to do it anyways) free heroin...instead of Methadone...which is much more detrimental to the body...and 10 times as addictive--
Lend a Junkie a hand...and he might not steal your shit--

Why not spend money on treatments such as Ibogaine that have been reported to *CURE* heroin addicts from their ADDICTION? Im not speaking from experiance i am simply putting my point of view across here. For some reason a heroin addict has turned to heroin(peer pressure,tragedies etc etc)-now the swiss are feeding the habit with refined pure heroin in an attempt to lower crime so none heroin users have a better standard of life whilst at the same time the issue of WHY someone has turned to heroin doesnt get addressed and the heroin user is left to drown his sorrows in a haze of heroin smoke? I know that there are plenty of functioning hardworking heroin users out there holding down steady jobs & supporting familys that will welcome this news-but what about the heroin users with criminal records as long as their arms with no family that want to kcik their habit? Merely feeding them up with heroin-how is this going to help. Does this make sense? Giving out free heroin just to benefit mainstream public doesnt to me seem to be the answer....if it is then why dont they just legalise growing opium poppys-heroin users could grow their own??
Hey if im being naive to something then please enlighten me as im not opposed to changing my point of view-i just need to hear a good point of view to do it.

Peace.

 

[kmk420kali]

Why not spend money on treatments such as Ibogaine that have been reported to *CURE* heroin addicts from their ADDICTION? Im not speaking from experiance i am simply putting my point of view across here. For some reason a heroin addict has turned to heroin(peer pressure,tragedies etc etc)-now the swiss are feeding the habit with refined pure heroin in an attempt to lower crime so none heroin users have a better standard of life whilst at the same time the issue of WHY someone has turned to heroin doesnt get addressed and the heroin user is left to drown his sorrows in a haze of heroin smoke? I know that there are plenty of functioning hardworking heroin users out there holding down steady jobs & supporting familys that will welcome this news-but what about the heroin users with criminal records as long as their arms with no family that want to kcik their habit? Merely feeding them up with heroin-how is this going to help. Does this make sense? Giving out free heroin just to benefit mainstream public doesnt to me seem to be the answer....if it is then why dont they just legalise growing opium poppys-heroin users could grow their own??
Hey if im being naive to something then please enlighten me as im not opposed to changing my point of view-i just need to hear a good point of view to do it.

Peace.

Don't get me wrong, I am not supporting heroin addiction-- I was an addict for 18 years, and have been off it for almost 14 years now--
But there are many out there, who do not want to quit, and won't-- Those (I believe) are the targets for this program-- Altho I haven't seen the complete Law and what all it includes, I would have to guess that the program includes attempts to get these ppl into Rehab ultimately--
Like I say tho...I don't support the drug, but I also can't condemn the ppl using it...as it is never too late for them to turn their life around....I did, and I was what we used to call a "Hope to die" Dopefiend--

BTW, those pics that CoonHunter posted are the exact reason that this program can be a good thing-- Clean needles and drugs will certainly save money in the cases of abscesses/AIDS/Hepatitis--

 

[dkmonk]

Well some people just cant quit, heroin after use for maybe a couple of months makes the chemistry in your brain different, it is always going to be a struggle, but you probably know that.

I did it for 3 months straight, stopped for 5 months and now only do it 2 a month at max, and it is very hard to quit completley and permantly, although i would prefer a methadone program for me, but for some of my friends who spend 500 a day on their habit and have to sell to maintain their lifestyle, i think this would be a good alternative.

If I could stop from doing it forever I would, but evertime i get money i just want a shot, and it is very hard to keep it to a once and a while thing, and damn near impossible for me to not ever do it, because then i would have to never have money.

People need to not look at all people who do heroin as junkies, most of my friends and myself hold down real jobs, and dont steal, bathe regularly and are good people who just choose to get high.

To anyone wondering about heroin, dont, if i could turn back time i would just of not started, at first it seems like its not addicting at all, so then you do it more and more and then you stop and find out the truth. Good luck to all recovering addicts.

peace and love,

dkmonk

 

[CoonLover]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Great insight and real life struggle.
No hack on you my friend, the internet doesn't offer to many pictures of sociable & productive users, so please take the pic's with a grain of salt.

Your right on the brain makeup after use, shit should of never been created..
Funny thing about it, opium was prescribed to treat alcoholism, then when Opium was found to be addictive, they used the newly discovered Morphine to treat Opium addiction. Then when morphine was a problem, they used the newer found heroin to treat Morphine addiction. Only to have a drug with unimaginable effects and withdrawal's that could be fatal. They created a monster and never wanted to accept the problem was their own creation. Damn Doctors.

I hope you win your struggle with it and continue to prosper in life and your journey's

Godspeed
-db

 

[snowman06]

Dont the swiss love there Beer over there to? think that since hopes are a relative to cannabis they might ligalize so weed befor that hard core crap.

 

[soniq]

Methadone is kind of gnarly stuff.... a lot of weird symtoms; horrible weight gain and spontaneous sweating. Fully synthetic, which is usually a harbinger of problems vs. all natural or semi-synthetic.

The part about methadone that really concerns me is the discovery of it's ability to cause "long QT syndrome" in the heart in doses usually >50mg (which would apply to most addict applications.) Long QT syndrome is a ticking time bomb; instant death via cardiac arrest. Look it up.

I have a lot of respect for functional addicts, or should I say those who are living normally but just happen to also be dependent. Addiction is the continued use in lieu of damage being done. Dependency on the other hand is just that, nothing more.

Opiates, what a complex, difficult issue.

 

[Pythagllio]

Where did I find those pictures?
Here's the steps, type www.google.com, then type in heroin users, hit enter. Select Images and behold the pictures. Your wager was wrong dipshit!
Ya I know ALL about the history of drugs is the United States. Ya Sears used to sell heroin kits via mail order.
Go preach to a different crowd.

No one made you look nor read my post.

Oh, you found them on google, wow. Now, where did google find them? P-r-o-p-a-g-a-n-d-a websites.

Example:

comes from drugalcohol-rehab.com. So now let me understand, you who are clueless as to the source of your pictures refers to me as a 'dipshit'. Gotcha.