The Stock Market Just Shot Itself In The Foot

[PointBlank]

If you noticed the stock market went up today so far, for no real reason (Sell off yesterday). In a couple of weeks, qrtly statements will be out, and people will begin to freakout on how much money they lost. Next investor's scramble for safer investments (Treasuries, bond, money-market, cash, gold, ect).When they do this, corporate investment further devalue. This is when the stock market will lose real money and correct its' self out. I don't see the world coming to an end, just a major correction in the market towards real value. FYI the Feds dumbed somthing like 680 million to the money supply yesterday, so much for keeping inflation in check.

 

[rightwingblazer]

my dads boss thought he was gonna play like warren buffet this week. he lost 20,000 dollars doing so.

 

[rightwingblazer]

heres a quote by Rep. Barney Frank D-Mass. in Sep. 11th 2003, from the New York Times:

"These two entities--Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac-- are not facing any kind of financial crisis. The more people exaggerate these (mortgage) problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing".

Barney Frank must go!

 

[Old Man Time]

Americans have weathered the great depression, the crash of 87 and 9/11....we are fairly resilient and we will make it through this.

I just want a fucking revolution already.

 

[Maj.PotHead]

i for 1 am glad the bill was shot down and hope it isnt passed in any way shape or form. if you run a business and make bad decissions its your ass if you go to vegas bet 1 million on the craps table and roll snake eyes ya loose 1 million dollars. wall street is like vegas a gamble if ppl cant afford to loose then they shouldnt play. and when corperate america plays with it's employees pension funds on wall street and loose well guess what Fers sell them fancy nacy boats 2nd n 3rd homes fancy cars no 10 million $ severance package for leaving the company. after all they recieved them phat checks for playn the speculation market stocks hedge funds buy zillion barrels of oil sit on it then sell when oils high priced. yepper did ya'll know there is a provission in this bill that will give imunity from prosocution of any criminal wrong doing by the bush administration. for the bush admin, the american ppl where fleeced by 9/11 it was only a cover up for the ripping off of the american investors by corperate america. dick cheeny leaves haliborton SEC investiagtion ask him whered 420 million go he answers nonya. CEO of tiyko toys whatever happened to him and his over 600 million that dissapeared. and the 1 that started it all enron lmao Fr died before he could be tried and convicted. martha stewert lmao went to jail for what 50k in pssssst sell this now tomarrow it'll be worthless crap america got bent over the barrel by the bush admin and they didnt even have the common courtsy to use lube hows it feel you believers the ecomony is recovering since 9/11 lmao. now the snake admits the country is in danger well ya think so


ppl in america where given credit to make to ecomony look as if it where recovering americans bought into it the world bought into it. lmao ppl whom never should have been granted home loans where anyways in the namesake of the ecomony recovering.


what happens when china saudi and other countrys stop buying our national debt and wish to cash in thier Tnotes bonds and such now what bush admin



welcome to a depression 1 that makes the 20's look like a walkn in the park, why because this will effect the whole world not just america

 

[Pharma Geddon]

Shortly after the Russian revolution, Lenin charged a bright economist, Kondratieff, with the task of proving that capitalism was unsustainable.

Kondratieff busied himself with all the historical data available, and yes, he did prove that capitalism was unsustainable. Unfortunately for him, he also proved that after it's collapse, it rises like a phoenix from it's own ashes. He spent the rest of his life in a labour camp,

This coming storm is inevitable, we are witnessing the collapse of capitalism.

The real bad news is that it is usually a big war that gets us out of a Kondratieff Winter. The last such winter was the Great Depression, WW2 got us out of that.

This winter should have started in 2000 but the Fed played chicken and lowered interest rates which resulted in a feeding frenzy of greed. Perhaps people have an innate sense of the coming winter?

The closest analogy I can come up with is a child falling out of a tree. We are powerless to prevent the fall but if we keep digging away at the soil, we can delay the moment of impact.

We've been digging for at least 4 years, at some point in time we are going to have to take the consequences of the impact. There is going to be pain, lots of it.

There is some good news however, it's an ill wind and all that...

We get to know who our neighbours are. We get to realise the value of an honest persons handshake.

 

[Vetus Fossor]

I'd like to give a tip of the hat to all the previous posters. I really like the fact this has gone a few pages and not gotten into a pissing contest. A nice exchange of ideas and it makes me proud to see nice cross selection of political ideas/parties coming together. This country was founded on the the idea of non government interference with business for the most part. Unfortunately that horse long ago got out of the barn.
Tomorrow, today, Wednesday (depending on when you read this) the Senate is taking up their version and the cost is even higher to us. There are all kind of things in this bill. If you truly believe no bail out, may I suggest emailing, calling your Senators Washington office. Not their local, to you, office.
We as the middle class/ lower class will live. It will be tough. Yeppers. If what they say is true. But in the back of my mind is this little voice saying.."Numbnuts (that's what my little voice calls me), these are the same folks who put us in this mess. They already used the 'Trust me' line on you." And I can't get stoned enough to make it shut up.

 

[rightwingblazer]

pharma- "the collapse of capitalism". thats a little too strong. sounds like the speech hugo chavez gave today. this is mostly based on the housing problems.(the socialist kind) russia now is capitalist, and the shit is lookin 10x better than it ever has for them. the 87 crash was worse than what were witnessing, not numbers wise, but percentage wise. were much larger now than then.

maj- i agree, bush has fucked up alot of things. however, this problem were in, with fannie and freddie going under, is not from bush's deregulation of oversight. its a problem of over regulation by barney frank and chris dodd. they, with the help of acorn, forced banks to give loans to people who were severly unqualified, crying racism. these people didnt even have to show proof of income. inthe middle of all this, in 2003, barney frank was quote as saying"These two entities--Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac-- are not facing any kind of financial crisis. The more people exaggerate these (mortgage) problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing". this is the main reason were in this mess. the markets went up today a little, anticipating the next bail out plan. we'll be alright, we may just have to struggle for a year or 2. but yeah, i agree with your analogy about rollin dice and shootin craps with our money. its bullshit.

 

[maryj315]

heres a quote by Rep. Barney Frank D-Mass. in Sep. 11th 2003, from the New York Times:

"These two entities--Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac-- are not facing any kind of financial crisis. The more people exaggerate these (mortgage) problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing".

Barney Frank must go!

So its all Barney Franks and working poor peoples fault. wow that is real easy just so you know Florida and Vegas two of the most hard hit areas mostly caused from flippers that is why they do want to help out buyers because their are way to many flippers involved. to much predatory lending not enough regulation. republicans were completely in charge at that time. Barney Frank had no power and Republicans ran elections on the very fact that more Americans owned a home under their leadership. the 2004 congress also changed Fannie and Freddie % for buying this trash from 15% to 30% in a closed session. none of this money would have been available if interest rates were not kept so low. you could borrow money for nothing then. so their is plenty of blame to pass around.

 

[rightwingblazer]

mary- barney frank was and has been the chairman of the house financial services commitee. his over regulation made predatory lending possible. making banks give loans to the unqualified. making them. frank worked hand in hand with his buddy, chris dodd, who was and is the chairman of the senate banking commitee. they were paid off by lobbyist. dodd recieved over 12 million with frank getting about 5 in payoffs.

i live in california. most of our defaults are coming from the unqualified with a slight percentage of flippers rounding it out. im not denying that bush bragged about blacks and mexicans owning more homes now than ever. he said it in the state of the union. of course he is partly responsible for looking the other way. he just went along with frank to get people off his trail, especially with his out of control spending on the war and no bid contracts. my point is frank and dodd pushed and made this shit possible. if it wasnt for them and acorn this would have never happened.

 

[maryj315]

I am not going to argue your facts but blaming a couple of people and bush is to easy. just the same as Sean hannity's breaking news video from 2003 where Democrats were defending the program. you are just focusing on one part to place blame. if they made out that well every Republican from every nook and corner would be screaming it from the top of their lungs. this goes way deeper and farther than those two. Cavuto had a very good interview with former NYSE chairman Richard grasso and Home depot co-founder Ken Langone. you can check it out on F.B.N. some good stuff you might like. now i do agree they are a part of it so no disrespect to your facts or opinion peace and have a good day

 

[funker]

pretty much both parties are to blame, i think...

the democrats set fannie and freddie up to get pimped by the mortgage industry and bush and the neocons decided to make money super easy and encourage everyone to spend our way out of the post dot-com recession...

beyond that bush has also frittered away a lot of dough on this pointless bullshit in iraq...

what needs to happen, and what i am not seeing in any of these bailout scenarios, is the banks need to be forced to put all of their mortgage-backed paper on their balance sheets IMMEDIATELY...the fact that banks are hiding this stuff (and are being allowed to do so) is what is causing the credit crisis...

some banks are ok and some aren't...the problem is the exposure is not out in the open and so banks just don't lend at all...if they were forced to put the bad paper on their balance sheet and set a floor of like 20 cents on the dollar for the shitty paper, then everyone could start to move forward and there could be a real dollar amount put on what would be necessary to keep everyone solvent, instead of this hand-wavy, $700 billion bullshit number...

at the very least the strong banks could then start lending more aggressively to creditworthy small businesses and individuals which would pretty much keep things from sliding into a depression scenario...

they can come up with some bullshit auction process and buy some bad paper, but if they allow banks to continue to keep the paper they don't sell off their balance sheets then the same problems are going to pop up again in six months or a year...

i think its also important to keep in mind that a lot of these homeowners who got "fucked" pretty much fucked themselves, imo...people lived beyond their means, covered their huge credit card tabs with their home equity in an inflated market, then lots of times went and ran up huge tabs again and refinanced again, until everything caved in...

from the bottom up and the top down this whole deal is just about greed...greedy bankers, greedy mortgage brokers, greedy borrowers who lived beyond their means, greedy appraisers who kept marking real estate values up by 20 or 30 percent a year and yes of course the greedy politicians who watched it all go down...

ron paul said it many times, we in the US have lived beyond our means for too long and the only thing that will rectify the situation is a period of time when we are forced to live below the mean for a while...

printing money and hoping that a bunch of jobs materialize to stave off more foreclosures next year is not going to fix it...there are also plenty of ARMs out there that have not even started to adjust yet, lots of the loans from '05 and '06 have not even started to adjust yet...this is a colossal problem and its good that people are engaging it but its ridiculous to think that anything congress slaps together willy nilly is going to fix it...

 

[DEVIL OG]

or, we could go on a massive killing spree.
take out 199,800,000 people.
then the math will work!

They'd like that.. but you'd give them an easy scapegoat heh.. add a couple more zero's thou and they might make you pope..





Hey didn't somebody buy up alot of the property during the first depression to make a huge profit? I thought I heard that somewhere~

 

[maryj315]

I agree but they do need to pass some kind of bill just for the confidence factor alone. we don't need people losing jobs because a business cant get credit. 2009 is going to be a long year.

 

[Mr. Tony]

The fact that the stock market fell isn't the bad part, the bad part is the credit crunch. Nearly every business uses credit for day to day expenses, ie payroll.... with businesses not able to get credit they will be forced to down size. I heard a figure of a loss of 100k jobs/ month.

 

[Hovz]

Some people may lose their jobs, but not me, the working people who keep this country moving might get the recognition they deserve now.

 

[rightwingblazer]

funker- i agree with ron paul when he says that way too many people were trying to live above their means. you nailed it.

the new bill in the senate came out today. the major differences are:

1) the FDIC will go up from 100k to 250k.

2) no golden parachutes for underperforming scum on wall street.

3) adding layers of oversight to the treasury secretary and the bullshit he trys.

4) tax payers actually have a chance to make a profit from this if its ran right. (cross your fingers).

5) extending certain tax breaks.

ive been watching the senate hearings on c-span today. dodd has made earmarks for this damn bill too. he wants 2.3 billion for amtrack subsidies. plus an additional 100 million for incentives to govt. employees to ride the damn thing. theres one more multi million dollar earmark too in there. this is type of shit thats wrecking us.

if you want job security right now, work in the oilfields. thats what im in the process of doing.

 

[Vetus Fossor]

Rightwingblazer, fudge the fools. The little piggies can't help themselves. They got to load up the pork...they wouldn't have power if didn't.
I'll say it...I'll cross the line...you want to do away with earmarks, you want to REALLY make GOOD change in that cesspool called DC, you have to vote R this year.
I'll be glad to defend myself on this as long as it stays civil and it's fact based and not emotional charge. Which I realize it can be hard to do. This election has enough emotion on both sides that if we could tap it we could all use 10k worth of lights for free. lol (Herb reference in order to stay with-in TOU limits. lol)

 

[bounty29]

Ron Paul on the Bailout - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAETgDEzTvA
Dennis Kucinich on the Bailout - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Feyu2Db2QuU

It's too bad people don't pay enough attention, both of the candidates suck, we need something better right now.

 

[gdawg]

dude the tube already got rid of the vid same ol bs