The Living Soil

[jaykush]

oh great now i become the asshole in all of this. im not talking shit on science it was mainly this sentence "In regards to homemade recipes and brewers, I didn't list these mostly because it's hard to do successfully if you don't have a microscope and want to make sure you're getting good results." literally seemed like a slap in the face to everything we have been doing this whole time. it is not TOO HARD to brew a compost tea and get good results. simply apply your brain to learn and its simple for anyone.


toodles. you dont even know how complicated oragnics can even get only growing one plant it doesnt matter how long you have been smoking or on the exact opposite how EASY it can be. quality tea is EASY to do, it is not hard thats for sure. you dont need all the mumbo jumbo at first to help along, it helps but not needed. most of that shit confuses the hell out of anyone i try to teach about teas anyways, mention bacteria and some people freak saying hell no don't bring it near my grow. you are right some of us "stoners" (i must not be one i guess) are very "technical" including myself and many others here. they dont just stop when adding the tea to soil, they want to optimize it building the soil to its full potential. but most to be honest could give a shit fuck less and just want potent nugs fast, they coming here for "recipes" to mix up and put plants in and add water thats it. understanding is simple, do some simple research for your self like the rest of us, its easy to learn and a lot of fun too. maybe its the other way around and you guys are the ignorant bishops, Galileo was known for trying new things in his time right? things other people thought were crazy? if i could get a decent microscope for 70$ it would be in my hands within hours. ive yet to find a deal like such though. point us in the right direction which store? will all hobby stores carry them?

Jaykush is not disparaging science, he's saying that what CT and Microbe are talking about is something that not many people can contribute to experience wise (it's a discipline which needs money and a lot of specialized knowledge) but that their methods don't need tons of equipment or knowledge to work well (maybe not perfectly).

Stoners tend to be improvisers, and improvising with these methods can still produce excellent results, although you might not understand why or how they contributed (which is what CT and Microbe are trying to do)..

exactly! not everyone has a vast knowledge on bacteria and fungi like most of us here. im saying you can get the exact same results EVEN possibly better without a microscope or knowing your tea is "balanced" theres more than one right way to do things. back when most of the stuff were talking about was unknown, people were experimenting just as we are by trial and error just like we are, they found things that worked and things that didnt. passed on the ones that did and scrapped the ones that fail. maybe instead of trying to push your way of tea brewing on us. contribute by helping, tossing back and forth ideas, instead of "oh that wont work because i said so" ( and yea i know you didnt say that directly microbeman)

You can choose to use your hands or a shovel. That is all I am talking about concerning the microscope. The use of organic amendments and/or compost tea is based upon the microbial nutrient cycle; bacteria being eaten by protozoa. If you see that you have bacteria (little dots and bars) moving around and protozoa (larger oval critters with hairs and tails or oozing globs) you are good to go.

you can also take the high road or the low road. even though both get to the same place at the same time. im sure you know but teas arent everything. its the soil that matters. protozoa,bacteria, fungi and all the others dont mean shit in a tea unless they do good in the soil your adding them to as well. the microbial nutrient system goes much farther in soil than any tea, with more diversity and orgnaisms. and i guarantee theres things going on half the world doesn't even know about. that includes you. and even me.

yes sorry ct guy i didnt want your thread to turn into a shitstorm. it was a good read as i said in my first post.

 

[jaykush]

Jaykush on Jaykush

"any pot grower can grow plants, but not every plant grower can grow pot"


“and yes im sure they know how to grow it, its a plant after all nothing special. anyone even a child can grow it successfully.”


“i don't like arguing its pointless.”

post like these are pointless and shows how you are. theres always a way to nit pick as someones post when you leave words out. you left out of the first one "i read on here once someone say" meaning ITS WASENT ME.

the second one is all me, successfully is a different word compared to perfection or the best. anyone can grow it successfully yea. but not everyone can grow it to perfection. maybe i should have said that i was going to but thought it wasent needed.

and arguing is pointless! always has been always will be. nothing gets done. with all the typing we both did we could have put our heads together and found something amazing.

 

[toodles]

JayKush:

I apologize for the "ignorant bishop" remark. It was meant to be humorous...thats why I put the grinning smiley face after it.

As for the microscope, I bought it at a local hooby shop. The box says for 8 year olds and above LOL!!!!!!!

It is not a great microscope, but it will show some of the microherd. Bummer I'm still not in my old career. I had access to some of the finest microscopes made.

Just so folks don't needlessly spend money. These kids microscopes are 1) not great quality, and2) they can be frustratingly hard to use at times. The light source(s) are poor, the slide stages are not precision, etc. You have to play around a lot to see what's going on. It is fun to see some of the microbes.

I'm not using teas too much this grow. I was going to but personal issues have me away too much at times to really be able to setup for tea brewing. So this time I'm going pretty simple. A good organic soil and occasional feeding with organic bottle nutes. Cheating I know, but can't be helped right now.


Microbeman I will email you as soon as I can. I'll be away for a few days so it may be next week. I don't mind paying for the CD. The disk costs money

Thanks

Toodles

 

[jaykush]

yea no worries toodles, its all good, i was trying to be kind of funny in a way myself. cant be mad at a fellow stoner, if only we could all just sit down with a nice joint and relax. not saying i was mad even in the first place. i took a rip just before i read your post actually and it was a good one.

"Just so folks don't needlessly spend money. These kids microscopes are 1) not great quality, and2) they can be frustratingly hard to use at times. The light source(s) are poor, the slide stages are not precision, etc. You have to play around a lot to see what's going on. It is fun to see some of the microbes."

this is what im talking about, even from someone who went and bought one. to get the most out of a microscope you need a real expensive one. sure the 60$ one works, i have an OLD microscope too but quality wise its crap, not to say i cant see anything in it, but its still crap and not needed. but like you even said how well does it work. is it to the point where its not even needed or actually helps you that much more? sure its cool to look at the microbes, its even cooler to get some oceanwater and see whats floating around(some wicked critters in there). even if you can see your microbes, it doesnt help fix whats not there. you still need good compost, and quality ingredients. and as long as you have those you dont need to check. i personally brew a "tea" once a month if that. there are endless other ways to meet the needs of a plant. from fermented plant extracts to guanos to teas to bottled nutrients even.

 

[Microbeman]

Jaykush,

Just so you know; "The use of organic amendments and/or compost tea is based upon the microbial nutrient cycle; bacteria being eaten by protozoa."

meant soil and compost tea. All organic growing works this way (within the miniscule knowledge there is thus far). I am not fixated on compost tea and I happen to know, neither is CTguy.

If I recall correctly, I have posted a site where one can acquire a relatively decent microscope for $150.00. It is in my microscope advisory on my website. Of course the images will not be absolutely great but there are tricks one can do to improve the images like using diffraction shapes (I cut them out of coffee can lids) and different colored filters. I also know growers who are quite happy with 'chinese' knockoffs which cost $350 to $500. Depends on your budget. If one is innovative and does a little research a quite acceptable microscope can be had inexpensively. Often there are American Optical (Spencer) microscopes cheap on Ebay. They are, for the most part, decent scopes. The Series 10 and 110 are good bets.

There are also some Internet links in my advisory which teach exactly how microscopes function, which is handy if you need to tweak one up. I purchased an inoperable microscope through the internet and through research and resourcefulness was able to make it better than it was from the factory by using a regular light switch dimmer, and a length of drainpipe. It is now a very good quality phase contrast scope. I paid $268 for it and could sell it if I wanted for $2000+.

I really only gave you a hard time because you gave one to CT guy. I have said all along, if you are happy with what you are doing and not polluting, then have at it. My goal is to spread this 'microbial method know how' as much as possible. (I have designed an efficient brewer priced way under the market, I'm trying to do the same with a microscope, my DVD is half the price of others sold, I've posted all sorts of info on my website) This is not complex stuff as I have presented it.

Sure there are the 'mix and apply' group (to grow some nuggies) who are resistant to opening their minds to learn but these are the same 'mindset' who are polluting the earth. As Forest Gump's mom always said 'Stupid is, as stupid does.

 

[sophisto]

I had to chime in here to good to pass up.....

First of all nice post.

Secondly , I can see JayKush's point.. way back in the day indians, tribesman and villagers were making compost teas or the like, organically, and there was no microscope to analyze why or how it worked it just flat out worked....I have learned a shit ton of info from you brother....Scientific or not it some of the things I have picked up on some of your posts has helped me as a gardener tremendously.

Thirdly: CT and Microbeman you are truly scientists. Your need to understand why and how has been the spirit of those who have discovered the basic building blocks that make up our planet. Whether neede or not, your desires to push further in wanting to understand the mystery in an often forgotten necessity on earth, that necessity being our soil...The soil that grows our plants feeds our masses, and sustains our oxygen supply...All of the research you do is in the way of using ingredients that are not harmful to this soil or the planets natural system...HAts off to your Sir's

I feel I owe people like you a great deal of respect as if it were not for people like you I would not know nearly as much about the soil biology as I do currently ( which isnt much). Even though the things that work in our soil are now defined, they are no more less mysterious to us all now then they were millions of years ago .

I can see both sides of the spectrum and to some it may seem like overkill one way or the other.. I for one have to agree with and want to support the kinds of research ALL of us are doing.. In our own ways we may find very successful ways to feed our soil. However it is the hard evidence as documented by people like Microbeman and Ct guy that hopefully will land in the hands of someone that can make a change for the better...At least agriculturally.....for us all...


One and all keep doing what your doing it's what makes this place so much fun for me...I also helps me evolve into the type of gardener/grower I want to be.

And yeh I agree we need to leave our ego's at the door here...Learning comes from being open...Words are just words...If we see or hear words we dont like we can ask why those words were used...To tell another there words are wrong is not open any more it's closed....Words like " new technology" " new science" seem to scare or bother alot of us here as they are the opening statements to almost all chemical nutrient comapanies sale speeches...They are just words so we need to let them be what they want to be, words..



I am pretty high and philosophical right now excuse me if I am coming across as a hippie....LOL, theres another word......

 

[Microbeman]

I just have to point out that this no more scientific than figuring out whether you have a problem with thrips or two spotted mites and lets say you use a magnifying glass or your sister's reading glasses and see for sure it's two spotted mites; then through the Internet or joe blow next door you find out that Persimillis eat two spotted mites; then you find a place that sells Persimillis and order some.

This is just common sense but it is based on some research which somebody did on the bugs involved.

Everything I have said is just common sense based on research which somebody did on the bugs involved.

Every person can choose to use their hands or a shovel to dig. This has nothing to do with a need to understand. It is just common sense. (of course there are us who are still saving up to buy a shovel).

 

[ixnay007]

I think our analogy is a bit off, I'd say it's more like having a car, you don't need to understand the internal combustion engine and how it works to get around, and use the car well.. those that do, can often also decide whether to change something, or know whether or not a change will be positive or negative..

Now we're getting into the english major's territory

 

[Microbeman]

Typically, one who drives a car needs to have the capacity to read the fuel, temperature and oil pressure gauges (or dummy light). Once one actually uses a microscope to see the balance of the 2 or 3 microbe groups, they realize how truly simple it is. When the field of view is filled with bacteria (dots & bars) with 10 to 100 protozoa (depending on desired effect) it is time to apply the CT.

 

[lilo]

you're not driving a car here, you're manufacturing it. if you just want to drive then use bottled nutes with water, like biobiz. if you cook something you have to try it to know how it tastes, same here - you simply need to know when it's ready to be served. you use loupe to see trichomes and deside when to harvest - same with microscope and teas. doing things blind and just assuming is stupid. microscope is a few hundred bucks only, not a big deal for a wannabe organic master in western world. too much threads and assumptions no one came up with microscope pics or any serious info of the sort. i am already known here for my straight thinking so take it as it is, i won't be arguin around much.

p.s. it's all about newborn internet ego thing nowdays. people go buy expensive cameras and post their pics and "shows" but when it comes to something really relevent like a microscope twisted logic starts kicking in. personaly to me, a guy who don't know how those microbes look under a misroscope and assumes is just that - a wannabe organic fanatic, hyped showmaster, nothing more.

I know some commercial organic farmers (legal, not pot) and they all got microscopes, all kinds of test kits or they use labs services - there's no way around it.

 

[Microbeman]

Thank you lilo. Better said.

And I don't have attaching privileges but there are photos many places on the web including my website microbeorganics.com

 

[sophisto]

Seems like this is a gang up on Jaykush party.....???? Not sure if it's my mis-interpretaion or it is actually insulting comments directed to those that do not choose to use microscopes???

I think the point that was trying to be conveyed here is that our ancestors just knew it worked they didnt need to know how or why....This doesnt make them better or worse then any other gardener now or then. Science has to explain and understand everthing.In doing so it uses all the technology that has become available by science to read measure and monitor so it can be said this is why it works....If there is no answer there is no science, only mystery....Science cannot explain the mystery of why the things that are in our soil are there to begin with? It can identify them and say this is what they are and this is how many you should have but a healthy soil is a healthy soil....LEts be real here....

I stand for the experiments and the research that people do with scopes.I feel it is this knowledge that has the power to change mentalities in the agriculture industry ( the ones who call the shots)...It may be hard for a science mind to comprehend this next statement I am going to make but here goes it...In my experience I have seen more beautiful gardens from those who grew by feeling and by the personal relationships they have with their environments, soils, composts, plants...etc... Than I have in any over thought or over worked garden.. Both have the possibility to arrive at the same result...One is by feeling the other is by thought.....

Both are valid we should learn to be a bit more respectful to one another here....

I would like to offer myself as a guinea pig here so maybe something can be accomplished instead of a debate that neither side will never see the other side in totality.

I am offering to brew any tea recipe suggested by any member here as per their ingredients and methods and send this tea to any one of the science guys here or outside to have it analyzed.....We could revue the data as a community, and learn from eachother instead of saying that one who chooses to garden by feeling is dumb. Or the other claims that science is all bullcrap and marketing towards selling something.....

Heres the chance to squash it and go into action....." Tea anyone".....LOL

Seriously no BS I will do it...

 

[Microbeman]

You have no argument from me with what you said and if you check my posts you will see that I made this allowance all along.

The microscope was brought up by Tad and myself as a tool which helps with having 'optimum' results when brewing a tea, particularly when one is brewing with different recipes for specific outcomes. It is only a tool just like a pH meter, an EC/TDS meter, a shovel, etc.

It is also a useful tool for seeing what microbes are living in your soil, so that you might better respond to the needs of the soil and your plants. Like I said it is no different than using reading glasses to see the bugs on your leaves.

I have not disagreed at all that the use of organic growing and compost tea is ancient and have posted advice for making a CT without a pump in this forum. You seem to think I am some high-falutin (sp?) scientist. I live on a farm and am barely scraping by. I cut my teeth in 'your world' contracting with the compassion club in vancouver until the federal authorities 'invalidated' my contract so to speak.

Regarding Jaykush, I believe the last several posts had nothing to do with him nor his responses (well maybe the one from Lilo) but I thought I'd made an attempt to clear the air with him in my post '06-28-2008' He did pounce on Tad, unprovoked, with some pretty harsh language.

Concerning your offer to send a sample of CT, you have hit upon something I am sort of miffed about. When people put CT in a closed bottle and ship it off it goes through changes by the time it gets to the lab or the bloke with the microscope. I hate to see people wasting their money with these tests. I have watched the microbial make up of a tea sample change radically overnight just sitting in a cup in the lab.

To me this validates the value of the grower using a microscope to get the best use of his tea possible. Absolutely, this is not essential (unless you are claiming fungal brews, etc.) and many people make and use tea successfully without microscopes. But it is essential if you are mixing and concocting various recipes for specific outcomes. (e.g. fungal tea, bla, bla)

Before I got a microscope I used various recipes thinking I was getting certain types of brews (e.g. fungal, protozoa, etc.). I thought the thick foam on top always meant the brew was ready. Boy, were my eyes opened.

 

[lilo]

There's so much to learn and the tool mentioned is a better way then a thousand posts on any forum. There should be at least a fw people here with microscopes willing to use them, evaluate and post or else this forum is way incomplete in organic discussion. There are threads like Enzyme DIY and similar advanced stuff and no real evaluation of what is actually happening when folowing those recipes. You better grab digest and use everything microbeman has to say while he's here with us.

Hey I ddn't mean to insult anyone here. Don't loop for insults but see as a more constractive criticism and what can be gained out of it. It's an opinion.

 

[jaykush]

ahhhhh what a nice weekend in the mountains, nice and relaxing. cleared my mind on the subject as i could have been a bit harsh at times, but i still stand by my every word.

I really only gave you a hard time because you gave one to CT guy. I have said all along, if you are happy with what you are doing and not polluting, then have at it. My goal is to spread this 'microbial method know how' as much as possible. (I have designed an efficient brewer priced way under the market, I'm trying to do the same with a microscope, my DVD is half the price of others sold, I've posted all sorts of info on my website) This is not complex stuff as I have presented it.

the only reason i jumped on him because he said its too hard to do without a microscope. and i still think thats complete bullshit. my goal as well is to spread a natural, efficient cheap way to grow organic. without the need to rely less on certain things like store bought products. people dont need to spend hundreds of dollars to have a beautiful healthy grow. it is complex in a way, but in the same way organics is easier than anything out there. once you get things going, and a good CT helps jump start it.

Sure there are the 'mix and apply' group (to grow some nuggies) who are resistant to opening their minds to learn but these are the same 'mindset' who are polluting the earth. As Forest Gump's mom always said 'Stupid is, as stupid does.

thats why i push the use of local materials. ive almost completely got rid of guano in place of nettles. it does everything guano did in veg and sometimes better. theres always going to be those people. people who don't care, they want nugs, they want them now and they dont care how its done. they come to find a list of ingredients to mix up, put some plants in and apply water. they could give a shit less about the planet.

I can see both sides of the spectrum and to some it may seem like overkill one way or the other.. I for one have to agree with and want to support the kinds of research ALL of us are doing.. In our own ways we may find very successful ways to feed our soil. However it is the hard evidence as documented by people like Microbeman and Ct guy that hopefully will land in the hands of someone that can make a change for the better...At least agriculturally.....for us all...

i dont think a microscope is overkill as i wish i had one, and even before these guys showed up i was looking for a scope. now that they are here i kind of dont want one now just to prove its not neededfor a healthy organics garden at peak health. its also the hard evidence and trial and error by people like us that give the "scientist" new things and ideas to work with. you can only work on the same thing for so long. after all is only compost, water and sugar.

you're not driving a car here, you're manufacturing it. if you just want to drive then use bottled nutes with water, like biobiz. if you cook something you have to try it to know how it tastes, same here - you simply need to know when it's ready to be served. you use loupe to see trichomes and deside when to harvest - same with microscope and teas. doing things blind and just assuming is stupid. microscope is a few hundred bucks only, not a big deal for a wannabe organic master in western world. too much threads and assumptions no one came up with microscope pics or any serious info of the sort. i am already known here for my straight thinking so take it as it is, i won't be arguin around much.

whats with the car anology lol. just to let you know not everyone uses a loupe to check for harvest. i know i dont and know a few others that dont, only by knowing the strain and learning over time will you get peak quality even when looking at the trichs. same with tea, sure you could have a scope,but look and still never ever meet the equal parts of bacteria, fungi, protozoa, etc.... you have to know what your doing. and learn by trial and error even with the right equipment.

personaly to me, a guy who don't know how those microbes look under a misroscope and assumes is just that - a wannabe organic fanatic, hyped showmaster, nothing more.

thats stupid, just because someone doesn't know what bacteria looks like doesn't mean they cant grow some mean organic nugs or veggies. those type of statements are pointless as fuck. your saying before we even knew what bacteria was no one could grow good food?

 

[jaykush]

I stand for the experiments and the research that people do with scopes.I feel it is this knowledge that has the power to change mentalities in the agriculture industry ( the ones who call the shots)...It may be hard for a science mind to comprehend this next statement I am going to make but here goes it...In my experience I have seen more beautiful gardens from those who grew by feeling and by the personal relationships they have with their environments, soils, composts, plants...etc... Than I have in any over thought or over worked garden.. Both have the possibility to arrive at the same result...One is by feeling the other is by thought.....

the problem with that is, 99% of the people in the agricultural business just want your money. sure some might want your plants to do good, but only so you will come buy more nutrients, products, etc.... not saying ct guy and microbeman are all about that, but its the truth. like sophisto said the most beautiful gardens i have ever seen, pot wise and normal garden wise were the people who let nature do the work. they knew the techniques and principles and rules not to break but did not need a microscope ever to get EXCELLENT results. like said both get to the same place. mines just cheaper and less Dependant on instruments/tools to do it.

I am offering to brew any tea recipe suggested by any member here as per their ingredients and methods and send this tea to any one of the science guys here or outside to have it analyzed.....We could revue the data as a community, and learn from eachother instead of saying that one who chooses to garden by feeling is dumb. Or the other claims that science is all bullcrap and marketing towards selling something.....

like microbeman said there is a problem with this. the amount of testing centers in the country are spread far and wide. i could brew a tea and send it 4 states over but like he said by the time it gets there it has no where near the same life as it did when you finished brewing. and hence my point where people need to learn to do it themselfs and not rely on anyone else or anything to tell them its right.

It is only a tool just like a pH meter, an EC/TDS meter, a shovel, etc.

ph and tds meters are not needed with organics. i know burnone will get on ur ass about the ph. the shovel is probly the most needed tool out of them all.

Regarding Jaykush, I believe the last several posts had nothing to do with him nor his responses (well maybe the one from Lilo) but I thought I'd made an attempt to clear the air with him in my post '06-28-2008' He did pounce on Tad, unprovoked, with some pretty harsh language.

directed at me or not i could care less, this is the internet lol and im a stoner. i jumped because its not "too hard" to brew a tea without a microscope and i dont want ANYONE thinking that. you just have become dependent on it. if you took it away or it broke right now could you get the same "optimum" results? yes or no? i know i could.

There's so much to learn and the tool mentioned is a better way then a thousand posts on any forum. There should be at least a fw people here with microscopes willing to use them, evaluate and post or else this forum is way incomplete in organic discussion. There are threads like Enzyme DIY and similar advanced stuff and no real evaluation of what is actually happening when folowing those recipes. You better grab digest and use everything microbeman has to say while he's here with us.

way better than a thousand posts? thats ridiculous. your saying if you had a scope, you could learn more than if say 50 people made 1000 posts about the same subject. chances are someone had the same question as you, and possibly took it even further. 50 heads are better than 1 even with a microscope. the threads like DIY enzyme are discussions with experimentation, nothing is set in stone. if scay beez didnt post that thread im sure half the info in there would never just pop in your head. they are there for us to chat back and forth, bring new ideas and get rid of bad ones and apply with trial and error. one thing a lonely microscope on your desk cant do. im not gonna grab and digest everything that he says, just as no one should follow every single one of my posts and follow them. reading through and finding what works best for YOU is far superior, as everyone lives in a different place and unlike chemical ferts, if something organic works here, doesnt mean its going to work good for someone else. same goes with teas.

now its time to go smoke a bowl.

 

[CT Guy]

Wow, this thread sure took off in a different direction! Just wanted to throw one last post out there on the subject.

1. When I say "new technology" it's not to scare anyone off. I was just referring to the fact that the addition of air and foods/nutrient to compost teas is a "new" thing that's only been around for 10-15 years now. These teas are going to have exponentially more microbes in them, as we're adding food to the equation, and as a result will need higher levels of dissolved oxygen in the water. My concern with people who aren't using the "tools" (microscope, do meter, etc...) when brewing, aren't getting enough aeration relative to the amount of foods they're adding to the mix. That being said, you can make perfectly good tea without a microscope. Same with a homemade brewer and recipe. I'm not trying to challenge what's been working for you guys. I'd just like to build on it in regards to knowing WHY certain inputs are more effective, or what sets of organisms are most beneficial to your plants.

2. If people are interested in getting microscopes or learning how to identify these organisms, I'd be happy to help, but I don't want to push this on people. If you've got a good process and your plants are happy, then I don't see a reason to change anything. Compost tea is just one component of the process, so maybe you're making an amazing tea that's chalk full of beneficials, or maybe your tea is horrible but your soil is so great that the plant doesn't need additional biology. Who knows, but if it works, it works!

That's all I had on this one....

Cheers,
Tad

 

[jaykush]

My concern with people who aren't using the "tools" (microscope, do meter, etc...) when brewing, aren't getting enough aeration relative to the amount of foods they're adding to the mix. That being said, you can make perfectly good tea without a microscope. Same with a homemade brewer and recipe. I'm not trying to challenge what's been working for you guys. I'd just like to build on it in regards to knowing WHY certain inputs are more effective, or what sets of organisms are most beneficial to your plants.

and thats is a valuable concern and i highly appreciate it as im sure others do too. and ive always said the more air the better. even if it looks overkill. we have been doing the same thing though, just with trial and error. we learned over time what is too much of this and not enough of that which things add to the teas and which take away from its benefits and it only works best as a whole community. your way may just be faster,(like i said earlier you take the high road ill take the low road) but we both get to the same place eventually. also most of us have gone past the simple tea and want to know why and how and with what. and also want to know which specific microbes are doing the work. thats why we have the lacto bacillus culture post in the ofc and i highly reccomend it. a highly beneficial organism ANYONE can collect for pennies and uses materials everyone has in there house. and the forest microbe cultures which contain valuable and might even contain un-identified species that do amazing work.

2. If people are interested in getting microscopes or learning how to identify these organisms, I'd be happy to help, but I don't want to push this on people. If you've got a good process and your plants are happy, then I don't see a reason to change anything. Compost tea is just one component of the process, so maybe you're making an amazing tea that's chalk full of beneficials, or maybe your tea is horrible but your soil is so great that the plant doesn't need additional biology. Who knows, but if it works, it works!

see there is nothing wrong with that. its just that post that got me all ticked seemed like you were trying to push us all into buying a scope because it is absolutely needed. when its not. i see nothing wrong with wanting to know whats in the tea as many times it has come to my mind, even though i know my teas do there job and have been for quite some time. but like you said, even with a crappy tea. as long as your soil is healthy ( which when all comes to an end is the highest priority) you will be fine and the microbes will do the work.

sorry to jack ur thread like this but im sure it will help a lot of people choose which route they want to go.

 

[organick]

Computer...450$
Internet conection...29$ a month.
Being able to read a thread like this on ICmag.......Priceless.

Ahh...So don't use one, if you don't feel you need one. This is the phylosophical epiphany I am comming too. It applies to many things in life.

On a different note: I just bought my first air pump for AACT today! I feel almost as good as that time I found the sod and top soil in the dumpster. boy did i sod off, I sodded off real good. The pump was a frugal shopper find, if a micro comes within my shopping sights (well under market only) it's mine.

Peace Love and microbe magnification (but only if you want too).

 

[toodles]

Geez Marie....This sort of conversation makes me think of the word "luddite" at times. Is it possible to be "neutral" on the subject of technology?

Toodles