(Dark) green leaves at harvest time?! Come on guys, stop overfeeding & flush fully

[British_Bulldog]

Yeah...I've worked with this strain for 2 years now. The green organic plants from the first run done that way have been the best yet...even beat my flushed GH and AN grown plants...that's my point but not saying it's the norm. Both the GH and AN programs were dialed in programs I got from commercial growers. Of course it's gonna get better as I get the organics dialed in. The room I deal with now is only 2600 watts, the previous one was 4800 watts. The current room is really my buddy's but I basically tell him everything to do while he's learning. Basically I'm doing it but his hands do the actual work...lol. I grew full time for 3 years, indoors and out, and helped a lot of other people also. True organics is a different animal regarding flushing. That's my experience.

Hi Whatever,

I appreciate organics are different, but it doesn't mean to say you can't end up with a result with all the food used up, and have a superior product.

I think you've acknowledged that by saying "of course it's going to get better".

As I said, I look forward to your smoke reports.

 

[FOE20]

ok wait a sec...hey BBulldog I know theirs a breed to..I was in no way trying to insult or say you were a spandex flyboy..Its more like at some point you will teach a person who will out shine you..in turn humbling his master..thats all..Im sure you know..you are abrasive but so is life..its its casual..
FOE20

 

[British_Bulldog]

lol Foe, I'm not saying I'm the best grower, but I do have a lot of experience and I've fed and flushed plants better than most.

I hope I do see more effort going in the the feeding and flushing around here in the future.

It's understandable if people have chaotic lifestyles and don't have time to do it, but if you have some extra time, it's worth making notes, careful observations, etc, and then improving the next time.

Err on the side of caution with the nutes, and see what they want.

In hydro, using an EC meter is very useful - watch how they feed, and adjust their food to it. Then reduce the nitrogen around half way through flower, and start increasing the potassium and phosphorus. Then flush for at least 10-14 days, and let the plants go right to the end of their cycle, with the buds fully developing and the fan leaves completely yellowed and dying off down below.

At this time, I also find it a good idea to remove all these dead leaves from down below, and seal them in a bag, as otherwise the humidity will be higher, and a lower humidity forces for resin at the end of flower, plus there's more chance of bugs like fungus gnats hanging around with lots of half dead leaves falling off around the medium.


BB

 

[Ajunta Pall]

Let me see if I can clear things up just a bit, for my own understaning. I grow outside with organics during the summer. In the fall I see the yellowing of the leaves every harvest. The leaves yellowing does not really reflect anything that I am doing. The plant is reacting to the enviornmental signals that it is time to die. Those being the shorter days and cooler temps. The plant shifts it production from chlorophyll a (the dark green shit) into an increase of resin production to protect the seeds (not in my colas, thank you very much) it should be developing. You see because dying= stress. The resulting autum colors are the left over the chlorophylls' (b, c, d) pigment.

Like I said, I am a outdoor grower, who over time has acquired enough $$$ to move indoors during the winter. My whole point indoors is to recreate what I see happen outside. Since indoors the phototrophic peroid is constant as well as temps. There are no enviornmental factors that tell your plants that it is time to die, and to increase resin production. Hence, the flush. By flushing, I starve the plant into the same stress it suffers outside from other causes.

I know I'm not an indoor grow master, though I do get good results with NFT and aero. So help me out this winter and someone tell me how to have a well fed green plant and increase resin production without inducing stress (flushing).

 

[British_Bulldog]

Ajunta, I say again, the colours are NOT a result of removal of chlorophyll - that's with trees, not MJ plants.

The colours are due to lower than normal night temps.

Look around here for UK growers (a cold country) with indoor grows in the winter - they're always colourful unless the grower has used a heater during the dark hours.

As I said, I used to get all yellow leaves, then had a problem with mold, so I kept an oscillating fan on them at night too, on a medium setting, as well as the extractor of course, and saw colouration.

That's when I learnt about the colder temps causing this.

Ty-Stik doesn't have colours in his 1st pic, because the night temp wasn't low enough.

There are no enviornmental factors that tell your plants that it is time to die, and to increase resin production

With this I strongly disagree, MJ is a summer annual crop, and when it gets to the end of the flowering period, if a female hasn't been seeded, she will put out more resin and buds (to increase her size, and therefore likelihood of being pollinated), in a last ditch attempt to become 'pregnant'.

 

[Ajunta Pall]

Well, I never said cholorphyll was removed, just the production of chlorophyll a decreases. The underlying pigments are more visible given time becuase there is less of the dark green stuff. It's the plant just changing it's priorities, because of cooler night time temps. I grow sativas into mid November (for hash) some seasons. I know cold damage when I see it.
You maybe right about the reason for resin production, but up until recently, I never cared why it did it, so long as it did.

One more thing though, indoors during the winter, I should turn the heat down during the night to simulate late fall temps? Never thought of that.

As far as my growing goes, I'm a true lone wolf grower, and don't really have anyone to ask questions to. Here in the US I keep everything quiet as a matter of security. I learned to grow solely by using Jorge's bible. Now that I have learned the basics, I'm trying to fine tune my grows, and have a true understanding of why I use the techniques that I learned.

 

[British_Bulldog]

Ajunta, by 'removal' I just meant decreased/lack of, I did know the difference, but didn't word it right.

However, it's still not the case for any MJ plant I've ever seen. The colours are purely the lower night temps.


jiggy, what I meant was I was qualified to advise people, and wanted to help others.

 

[threeeleven]

Better flush or you'll get the Gorilla Press

Is the British Bulldog staring directly at the other guys penis?

 

[bounty29]

Way to stay on topic and be mature everyone. It's a shame people can't discuss a legitimate topic just because they don't like the way other members post. Who cares if someone thinks they're a better grower than you, why not just see what you can learn from them? Share ideas, share knowledge, don't be petty.

 

[barletta]

Is the British Bulldog staring directly at the other guys penis?

Only if the other guy is keeping it tucked into his kneepad. That's where I keep it when I wrastle.

 

[mk6]

Who cares if someone thinks they're a better grower than you, why not just see what you can learn from them? Share ideas, share knowledge, don't be petty.

words of wisdom right there bro/

 

[FOE20]

all good here...I didnt mean to have it go in that direction from the mention..I hate to say it but the wrestlers back in the 70's actually were crazy fuks compared to the glam fags now..just look at Andre the Giant.....he aint perty..heh..
anyway...Most folks dont like being told anything....I could care less..Im a sponge and try and absorb eveything...
BritBulldog can you outline a good solid 10-12 or even 12-14 week flower cycle..and a..may sound long but 16-18wk also..more or less how would you run a real long running Sta dom..just curious..I ask cause Ive had very strong sat doms that never want to finish so I try and take them as far as possible..It gets weird trying to pinpoint the budset end and stretch stop on these as the buds arte so enlongated and continue this as they grow..I have a room that 4x4 and unlimited hight and just like to let plants grow natural but these big long mommas are throwing me off in the end..they either want to keep going way to long or ends up to airy and just not timed right..I know I could force them, push penetration and trin/supercrop them till july but without any alteration to the plants growth at all..I have a (Barn)WillieNelson atm lookin to go a easy 12-14+....thnx for any insight
FOE20

 

[Nept]

you guys respond to alot of shit that isnt important, kinda like how i am now.

its always gonna seem necessary to say something isnt it? LOL

i started reading this shit too, then it became work to sort thru everyone quoting and saying something bout something somone said. peeps that dont want to fight and bicker simply dont, they just dont. dont say you dont like drama and watch soap opras

 

[dbuzz]

 

[evilunclephil]

I don't care who complains about staying on whatever topic, or who's insulting who, this whole page is fucking HILARIOUS

But hey, I'll make an on-topic addition to the thread. I'm just not so sure about the whole low night time temps = leaf coloration. These were the first plants I grew under HID, climate controlled room set to a constant 78f, and I got this coloration regardless

I've grown that strain for a couple years now, and even in hydro with no flush at all I still get the same coloration..

Could be genetic, it's durban poison x superskunk, and I've heard durban has purple coloration in her genes.

 

[British_Bulldog]

BritBulldog can you outline a good solid 10-12 or even 12-14 week flower cycle..and a..may sound long but 16-18wk also..more or less how would you run a real long running Sta dom..just curious..I ask cause Ive had very strong sat doms that never want to finish so I try and take them as far as possible..It gets weird trying to pinpoint the budset end and stretch stop on these as the buds arte so enlongated and continue this as they grow..I have a room that 4x4 and unlimited hight and just like to let plants grow natural but these big long mommas are throwing me off in the end..they either want to keep going way to long or ends up to airy and just not timed right..I know I could force them, push penetration and trin/supercrop them till july but without any alteration to the plants growth at all..I have a (Barn)WillieNelson atm lookin to go a easy 12-14+....thnx for any insight
FOE20

Foe, if it's the first time you're running these, then all you can use is a general guideline based on experience and the strain - info is obtainable online for the general strain's feeding requirements: you'll only get plants properly dialled in after 2 or 3 runs.

As I say, err on the side of caution with the feed, and with sats and sat doms, I'd recommend feeding veg nutes during the initial stretch, as the nitrogen will keep them shorter.

Then when they start to produce flowers, start to adjust the feed ratio, gradually (and slowly for sats) reduce the nitrogen proportionally to the P and K.

If it's in hydro, then use an EC meter to monitor the nutrient intake.

If it's organics, then you'll have to judge your feed.

I would give long flowering plants like that 2 weeks with plain water at the end.

The problem is knowing when to give straight water, so I'd judge it by the flowers and pistils - you know when the pistils start to turn that it's the beginning of the end, so that's a good guide.

On the second run with them, you'll know better, and the 3rd you could have them pretty much dialled in.

After that, you'll know each of their individual requirements, and what they like.


Peace

 

[British_Bulldog]

evilunclephil - I can see you do have some colouration there, but also that you overfed/underflushed by quite a bit.

What I meant about night temps was that it's a greater distance between day and night temps which does it - it doesn't have to be "cold" per se at night, just a significant difference between day and night temps.

I converted your 78f into Celcius, as I'm European, lol, and that's 25 deg.C, which is hot for night, but it's also relative to your daytime temps.

I know there is purpling in Durban genetics, so that could well be a factor in her desire to go purple, as they're not autumn colours, that's just purpling.


Peace

 

[FOE20]

sounds do'able and pertyu much what I do BritBulldog...It just gets beyond me sometime with ladies that look over 60,,,(inches...heh)...I usually train or bend or whatever needs to happen so it works out..I shorten the flower cycle a bit at the end to on the long cool women..
Im running PBPro in solo DWC 2gakl buckets..Its a very tricky syst cause as the nutes are used they reduce in the bucket..Im sure in yourt head the math is lookin backward but it actually work aight..My reason for this was to control every aspect oif what was in the solo bucket and note how it was used by the plant...Ive had the full spectrum...I grew soil for 15-20 and have only run hydro/DWC last 3 or so..Ive pushed some tests to get some wild results but it all smokes well and actually have flushed some of these ladies for up to 4wks at times even using levels of 350-500ppm at most...I add my nutes at a low level that concentrates as it reduces if the plant doesn't intake it..
Thanks for the words man....
whats your take on Silicants...Ive gong from adding a bit here n there thru grow n bloom to just a bit at onset or to plants that need to cell boost. But as of late Ive only added it in the first wk or 2 bloom than tword the end prior to flush...Anyway my issue is after I start flushing I like to use just tap as it saves a few bucks but it rips the plant plus the extra crap in our local tap water isnt all that great for plants..What I have done is instead of cutting off nutes on liong sats is reducing the feed level slowly over 4wks between wks 6-9 and to flush only by 10..But some plants respond well to the flush without much burn while other seem to get rip burned all down the tips of the fan leaves durring flush..
SO do you feel that products like Final phase or even ClearX would ease these issues so I can keep using a Tap flush without the burn or do I need to stick with all RO and a leecher?..Also do you feel over leeching in organics will drain a bit of Flavor from the end result?..
Final question......Ive found drops or spots of built up liquid in buds or on node points and have come to feel its a high amount of Carbs that causes this and it acts and tastes like sap off the plant..What do you feel this is, and is it a result of to much (molasses/sweet/carbo) or other factors..Odd part is I added only minor amount of molasses to my DWC run and a frined used even less in a soli run and we both had a bit of this sap on a few varieties..Ive heard different explanations so just shoot one off..always casual and thnx for any responce....be well

heres a normal grow...its a hybrid called SillyGum (BoggleGum x WhtRussian by AmericanGrower) run about 8-9wks and this pic is a few days from chop..In the DWC solos as pictured it can leech quite fast...Just wanted to show what the solos looked like..theres only a 6"in airstone in there with the root mass..
Pulled just under 3zips off a 600hps..
FOE20

 

[British_Bulldog]

Hi Foe,

I will address all your points in the morning, as it's late here, but I just wanted to post this pic I found online from Overgrow (OG pic archive: http://olk-peace.org/cannapedia/OverGrow.html )

I thought it was one of mine at first, but looking in the background of the pic, I'm not so sure.

However, this is a perfectly grown plant, and it has colouration too.

It's a great example for all to see, and I can find absolutely no fault in it whatsoever, it's stunning in fact.

It is also what my plants looked like every harvest once I'd got them dialled in.

This to me is an awesome pic, and what everyone should be aiming for:

NB. If anyone can point me to any other pics they've ever seen on ICMag that look like this, then I'd be very happy to look at them too. I personally have never seen anything this good here, but I'd be interested if anyone else has.

 

[British_Bulldog]

Hi Foe,

I agree that keeping sativas under control indoors is no easy task. However, as you say you can drop the hours to get them to finish at the end, and it shouldn't be necessary to flush for 4 weeks if you've fed correctly before.

About silicants, I've never used them - never felt the need to, and have always had good results without them - my theory is Keep it Simple.

On clearing solutions, I have used these and they do work well, especially if you've overfed midcycle and want to remove some nutes, and also at the end of course, but I'd only use these products if you've overfed earlier, or left it too late for a proper water flush.

I would avoid using tap water with a relatively high PPM for the flush if possible, and use RO water in that case if you can, otherwise, extend the flush by a few days.

Another thing about flushing if you have a recirculating res, like in NFT, is that you need to keep dumping the res, especially at the start, and replace it with fresh water.

Regarding sap, I've not had such problems with it - do some more research here on that I reckon.

Your plants are looking quite good, but you need to feed 'em less during the grow, as there's still too much food in them.



jiggy - I believe that pic is of a Chimera strain, I don't know which, but I grew a G13 cross which looked almost exactly the same, minus a bit of the leafyness. The resin's there and the buds are fully developed. Remember, it's not the sheer amount of resin that makes a smoke good, it's what's in the resin that counts. You could also have a plant with a low amount of resin, and it could get you much more ripped than one dripping in it.


potparty - if you have seen the same standard or better here, I would love to see them, as I really enjoy looking at such excellent specimens - please give me some links or any other info if you can.

I've explained my situation, no grow, pics deleted, but I'm still looking around for some. However, that pic above looks almost exactly like the pics I'm looking for, so you have your reference.

Now, if I can't find any pics, you either believe me or not, I don't care, but that pic shows what I'm talking about.