Any new vertical setups?
- Thread starter rr14
- Start date
Here's a few pics of my gutter stadium. It still needs some work. I'm going to rebuild the whole this in August anyway. Just a few corrections need to be made. I think that buying large PVC and cutting holes for the bags might be a good investment.
I'm about to build my first vertical setup.
Its 6' W x 16' L x 8' H
About every 5' there will be 2 - 600w HPS for a total of 3 sets and 3600w.
There will be 2 shelves, one on the ground with the bottom level of 600's and then a shelf 4' off the ground for the second set. A total of 90 plants will be used, so 45 on each level. They will be vegged until about 1.5' - 2' tall (trainwreck will be ran, so stretch will be big). All 90 will be 3 gallon pots, filled with pure Down to earth coco (cant beat $15 for 4.5 cubic feet).
1 Can-Fan MAX10 (1050'ish CFM) with a Can 125 filter will cool the entire corridor. 6" spot fans will be placed underneath each set of bulbs to distribute heat and equalize the rooms temps.
This design is an adaption/hybridization of Green bastards 8'x8' room with 2 - 1000w and 32 plants that pulls about 6lbs and Northern Farmers HP Stadium which was a stadium (duh) that ran 5 shelves per side with 4 - 1000w MH and would pull about 8lbs. If I recall correctly, NF's setup was 6'W x 6'H x 10'L. So I believe I should be able to pull at least 6lbs, if not more.
The walkway will be... tight to say the least. The plants will be train to the wall as to fill in any gaps and 'backpopped' as per Green Bastards method. Backpopping is just taking the back leaves and stems that don't get light off.
The equipment should arrive any day now and am getting 90 - 1' TW clones within the next couple days, so I gotta get on building the room.
I'll put some pics up when I have it built and ya'll can check it out.
Peace
Its 6' W x 16' L x 8' H
About every 5' there will be 2 - 600w HPS for a total of 3 sets and 3600w.
There will be 2 shelves, one on the ground with the bottom level of 600's and then a shelf 4' off the ground for the second set. A total of 90 plants will be used, so 45 on each level. They will be vegged until about 1.5' - 2' tall (trainwreck will be ran, so stretch will be big). All 90 will be 3 gallon pots, filled with pure Down to earth coco (cant beat $15 for 4.5 cubic feet).
1 Can-Fan MAX10 (1050'ish CFM) with a Can 125 filter will cool the entire corridor. 6" spot fans will be placed underneath each set of bulbs to distribute heat and equalize the rooms temps.
This design is an adaption/hybridization of Green bastards 8'x8' room with 2 - 1000w and 32 plants that pulls about 6lbs and Northern Farmers HP Stadium which was a stadium (duh) that ran 5 shelves per side with 4 - 1000w MH and would pull about 8lbs. If I recall correctly, NF's setup was 6'W x 6'H x 10'L. So I believe I should be able to pull at least 6lbs, if not more.
The walkway will be... tight to say the least. The plants will be train to the wall as to fill in any gaps and 'backpopped' as per Green Bastards method. Backpopping is just taking the back leaves and stems that don't get light off.
The equipment should arrive any day now and am getting 90 - 1' TW clones within the next couple days, so I gotta get on building the room.
I'll put some pics up when I have it built and ya'll can check it out.
Peace
gregor_mendel
Active member
I'm doing a vertical room at the moment.
5.5'x5'5'x9'H
It is three rows high, although the top isn't loaded right now.
Hand watered coco using House & Garden. 2600W
I was trying to adapt Green Bastards method as well. I thought his 8'x8' room was huge, but if I were redoing my room, I would not hesitate to go 8'x8'. It's tough to get around in there, and I occassionally break branches.
It is also my shared experience that big plants are not optimal, at least not my sativa. If it weren't week six I would backpop, per Mr. Celsius.
I am afraid optimizing this will require higher plant numbers than I am comfortable with, although I could do well to put a plant in each corner and train them to a screen. Long veg time though.
5.5'x5'5'x9'H
It is three rows high, although the top isn't loaded right now.
Hand watered coco using House & Garden. 2600W
I was trying to adapt Green Bastards method as well. I thought his 8'x8' room was huge, but if I were redoing my room, I would not hesitate to go 8'x8'. It's tough to get around in there, and I occassionally break branches.
It is also my shared experience that big plants are not optimal, at least not my sativa. If it weren't week six I would backpop, per Mr. Celsius.
I am afraid optimizing this will require higher plant numbers than I am comfortable with, although I could do well to put a plant in each corner and train them to a screen. Long veg time though.
Don't get discourage gregor, you don't need a high plant count.
Its possible that a Vscrog would work for you. But I would suggest only doing 2 rows with less plants and more veg.
Which sativa were you going to run? I personally like the idea of the trainwreck, as its so floppy to begin with, it will be quite easy to train against the wall and 'fill' the empty spots (that was the key to Green Bastards yields).
Its possible that a Vscrog would work for you. But I would suggest only doing 2 rows with less plants and more veg.
Which sativa were you going to run? I personally like the idea of the trainwreck, as its so floppy to begin with, it will be quite easy to train against the wall and 'fill' the empty spots (that was the key to Green Bastards yields).
Herbal Kint
New member
Best vertical setup ive seen was from dude known as Health Robinson , i dont now is he member of this site(think he is)so look at his work top of the tops setups working over 1.5/gr per watt,
gregor_mendel
Active member
High Mr. Celsius.
My next run will be Island Sweet Skunk. It's tall and leggy.
It really puts on the weight, too, but it takes ten weeks of bloom to do it.
I once ran a 3x6 table (ebb and flow hydroton) with eight plants - four down each side. Three 600W lamps hung vertically down the center, each with a cage around it.
I trained the plants to the three columnar screens, and had a great yield considering no CO2 and no humidity control.
This was the same strain, ISS. Nutrient was FloraNova Bloom, just topping off a 70 gallon reservoir the whole time.
Those plants were almost four feet tall, which has me thinking you are right about the two rows instead of three. (my space is 9' tall)
I have never read Green Bastard's complete thread, so I'm not famliar with training to the wall. Did he have hooks, or something else to attach them to?
My next run will be Island Sweet Skunk. It's tall and leggy.
It really puts on the weight, too, but it takes ten weeks of bloom to do it.
I once ran a 3x6 table (ebb and flow hydroton) with eight plants - four down each side. Three 600W lamps hung vertically down the center, each with a cage around it.
I trained the plants to the three columnar screens, and had a great yield considering no CO2 and no humidity control.
This was the same strain, ISS. Nutrient was FloraNova Bloom, just topping off a 70 gallon reservoir the whole time.
Those plants were almost four feet tall, which has me thinking you are right about the two rows instead of three. (my space is 9' tall)
I have never read Green Bastard's complete thread, so I'm not famliar with training to the wall. Did he have hooks, or something else to attach them to?
You can read it over at cannabis culture.com (its a sticky).
As for training, I'm not entirely sure that he used hooks, but he would bend plants from the top shelf down to the bottom shelf and then the tops of the plants would get spread across the ceiling to create a 'wall of bud'.
I'd imagine that hooks and/or twist-ties would work perfectly fine.
I'd love to see a pic of your setup... if you don't post pics, nevermind.
Thanks
Herbal Kint said:
He's over at HG 420.com
They have a vertical section with a number of good designs and information.
He ran 80 plants with 2 - 600w in a 4x4 area (I believe).
TGT- you stated that when you went vert you had huge increase in yeilds. can you explain that percentage wise as huge is subective. also how long do you veg for? anyone on here doing a cage or a coli? i was a ****hair away from buying a cage off of craiglist but alas i didnt......none the less i love vert but find it to be labour intensive.
This is not my work, I am simply copying it and bringing it to this community. The real thanks goes to MyGreenToe at HG 420 . com
Indoor Vertical Grow Systems 101
Due to the fact that many people know very little about vertical grow setups, I have attempted to lay out the basics here! I am no expert, and don't claim to be, so if you see something incorrect, or have something to add, by all means speak up! Credit for most of this information goes to alot of people, I have simply put everything in my own words in an attempt to condense it all here. I will edit the post over time to reflect current info. On to the good stuff!
For the sake of this discussion, indoor vertical grow systems can be defined as:
Grow setups in which one or more bulbs is hung vertically in a line, except in the case of stadium style grows, which require an adjustable reflector to maximize light usage. The plants are arrayed around the bulb/s, in a 360 degree wall of green, which then grows inward towards the bulb/s. This elliminates the use of costly reflectors(except in stadium grows). Stadium style grows make excellent use of vertical space in the same way bleachers do in a stadium, instead of a 360 wall of green. The nature of these setups creates far more square footage of growing space when compared to a traditional flat setup with the same footprint. Pictures to come on this once I talk to Pete, Moggs, and others about using some of their images... Vertical setups, while intitially intimidating, are compatible with most any style of growing, from organic, to soil/soiless, and hydro. Vertical setups have been proven to work on both small and large scales. Whether you Do It Yourself, or buy a commercial unit, once set up, they really perform!
Indoor vertical grow systems generally fall into 3 categories. These are Vertical SOG, Vertical SCROG, and Stadium Style Grows.
I created this image from scratch. For the sake of vertical awareness, feel free to download it and redistribute it anywhere you like. I only ask that you include a link to this thread here on ***** wherever you post it.
Vertical SOG
Sure to be a favorite with commercial growers, and those determined to get the highest gram per watt ratio with the least effort, Vertical Sea of Green(V-SOG) setups are real performers! A V-SOG setup applies the same principles of flat SOG gardening, simply with a 360 degree wall of small plants. Clones are placed in the setup in rows, as many rows high as will fit into the system. Well rooted clones may go immediately into flower, or veg a few days to a week before being switched to 12/12, depending on how much a strain may stretch.
V-SOGs of any decent size require clones, and lots of em. Alternately, they can be used to grow out lots of seed in a small space, for instance for breeding purposes(searching for traits, etc). Those using clones will need several mothers(or one bushy tree of a momma), to provide the extreme number of clones required to fill a V-SOG. One nice aspect of this is how easy it is to flower out several strains at once, since so many clones are required. Variety is easy to provide with a V-SOG. So long as you can provide the space for mothers and lots of clones, you can turn around a V-SOG in a very short amount of time and be flowering your next crop in a matter of days.
All of the commercially available vertical setups I've seen have been of the V-SOG variety, and mostly hydroponic. I'll include links at the end of the article(so you finish reading it before getting lost).
Pictured is an EcoSystem to give you the idea.
Vertical SCROG
The most common vertical method for micro growers, Vertical Screen of Green(V-SCROG) takes the principals of scrogging vertical. As with flat SCROG-ing, V-SCROG uses a screen to train buds. The grower constructs a tube of hardware cloth, or any chicken wire like material with appropriately sized holes, and places the bulb in the middle of the tube. One or more plants are placed on the ground. The plants are trained around the screen until it has been filled, using the same techniques as traditional scrogging. When flowered, the colas all grow inward to the bulb like an inside out porcupine lol. That is a very basic description of V-SCROGs. Since they are all DIY, there are as many variations on the same basic theme as one can imagine. A popular variation is to fit the whole works, including ventilation, into a barrel. This is sometimes called V-Tub, Barrel of green, etc. They come in every flavor including soil, hydro, single plant, multi plant, etc.
Forum member Saxon has created a larger scale V-SCROG setup by attatching larger vertical screens to individual pots. He then arrayed them in a circular formation around his bulbs to create a large size V-SCROG. There is some real potential here to have some serious harvests off of minimum watts and just a few plants. Check out the link to Saxon's grow in the next post.
Pictured here is bf7's V-SCROG tub for reference.
Stadium Style Grows
Stadium, and Coliseum Style grows were probably the first step towards 360 degree vertical gardens. They deserve a place here as well.
This type of setup consists of rows of steps descending towards each other along the walls of your grow space. For the soil/soiless grower, this can mean something as simple as a series of wooden benches. While for a hydro grower, it can mean systems as complex as the cool PVC model pictured below(though a hydro setup could also be quite simple).
In order to deliver light properly to a stadium grow, you really need an adjust-a-wing type horizontal reflector such as the one pictured below. It is hinged, in line with the bulb. You can adjust the wings upper or down on either side to perfectly control the light to your stadium. Without an adjustable shade along these lines, it will be hard to realize any gains from a stadium grow.
A stadium style grow won't gain you as much square footage as a circular setup will, nevertheless you should get 40% more square footage(I figured that might be about average, you could gain more or less depending how you set yours up), with a lot less work, and likely it will be easier to maintain. My apologies for trying to breeze by this type of setup, Moggggys set me straight, and once I did the math, it became clear that this is a really simple way to get more out of a flat garden, without completely rebuilding your room.
Indoor Vertical Grow Systems 101
Due to the fact that many people know very little about vertical grow setups, I have attempted to lay out the basics here! I am no expert, and don't claim to be, so if you see something incorrect, or have something to add, by all means speak up! Credit for most of this information goes to alot of people, I have simply put everything in my own words in an attempt to condense it all here. I will edit the post over time to reflect current info. On to the good stuff!
For the sake of this discussion, indoor vertical grow systems can be defined as:
Grow setups in which one or more bulbs is hung vertically in a line, except in the case of stadium style grows, which require an adjustable reflector to maximize light usage. The plants are arrayed around the bulb/s, in a 360 degree wall of green, which then grows inward towards the bulb/s. This elliminates the use of costly reflectors(except in stadium grows). Stadium style grows make excellent use of vertical space in the same way bleachers do in a stadium, instead of a 360 wall of green. The nature of these setups creates far more square footage of growing space when compared to a traditional flat setup with the same footprint. Pictures to come on this once I talk to Pete, Moggs, and others about using some of their images... Vertical setups, while intitially intimidating, are compatible with most any style of growing, from organic, to soil/soiless, and hydro. Vertical setups have been proven to work on both small and large scales. Whether you Do It Yourself, or buy a commercial unit, once set up, they really perform!
Indoor vertical grow systems generally fall into 3 categories. These are Vertical SOG, Vertical SCROG, and Stadium Style Grows.
I created this image from scratch. For the sake of vertical awareness, feel free to download it and redistribute it anywhere you like. I only ask that you include a link to this thread here on ***** wherever you post it.
Vertical SOG
Sure to be a favorite with commercial growers, and those determined to get the highest gram per watt ratio with the least effort, Vertical Sea of Green(V-SOG) setups are real performers! A V-SOG setup applies the same principles of flat SOG gardening, simply with a 360 degree wall of small plants. Clones are placed in the setup in rows, as many rows high as will fit into the system. Well rooted clones may go immediately into flower, or veg a few days to a week before being switched to 12/12, depending on how much a strain may stretch.
V-SOGs of any decent size require clones, and lots of em. Alternately, they can be used to grow out lots of seed in a small space, for instance for breeding purposes(searching for traits, etc). Those using clones will need several mothers(or one bushy tree of a momma), to provide the extreme number of clones required to fill a V-SOG. One nice aspect of this is how easy it is to flower out several strains at once, since so many clones are required. Variety is easy to provide with a V-SOG. So long as you can provide the space for mothers and lots of clones, you can turn around a V-SOG in a very short amount of time and be flowering your next crop in a matter of days.
All of the commercially available vertical setups I've seen have been of the V-SOG variety, and mostly hydroponic. I'll include links at the end of the article(so you finish reading it before getting lost).
Pictured is an EcoSystem to give you the idea.
Vertical SCROG
The most common vertical method for micro growers, Vertical Screen of Green(V-SCROG) takes the principals of scrogging vertical. As with flat SCROG-ing, V-SCROG uses a screen to train buds. The grower constructs a tube of hardware cloth, or any chicken wire like material with appropriately sized holes, and places the bulb in the middle of the tube. One or more plants are placed on the ground. The plants are trained around the screen until it has been filled, using the same techniques as traditional scrogging. When flowered, the colas all grow inward to the bulb like an inside out porcupine lol. That is a very basic description of V-SCROGs. Since they are all DIY, there are as many variations on the same basic theme as one can imagine. A popular variation is to fit the whole works, including ventilation, into a barrel. This is sometimes called V-Tub, Barrel of green, etc. They come in every flavor including soil, hydro, single plant, multi plant, etc.
Forum member Saxon has created a larger scale V-SCROG setup by attatching larger vertical screens to individual pots. He then arrayed them in a circular formation around his bulbs to create a large size V-SCROG. There is some real potential here to have some serious harvests off of minimum watts and just a few plants. Check out the link to Saxon's grow in the next post.
Pictured here is bf7's V-SCROG tub for reference.
Stadium Style Grows
Stadium, and Coliseum Style grows were probably the first step towards 360 degree vertical gardens. They deserve a place here as well.
This type of setup consists of rows of steps descending towards each other along the walls of your grow space. For the soil/soiless grower, this can mean something as simple as a series of wooden benches. While for a hydro grower, it can mean systems as complex as the cool PVC model pictured below(though a hydro setup could also be quite simple).
In order to deliver light properly to a stadium grow, you really need an adjust-a-wing type horizontal reflector such as the one pictured below. It is hinged, in line with the bulb. You can adjust the wings upper or down on either side to perfectly control the light to your stadium. Without an adjustable shade along these lines, it will be hard to realize any gains from a stadium grow.
A stadium style grow won't gain you as much square footage as a circular setup will, nevertheless you should get 40% more square footage(I figured that might be about average, you could gain more or less depending how you set yours up), with a lot less work, and likely it will be easier to maintain. My apologies for trying to breeze by this type of setup, Moggggys set me straight, and once I did the math, it became clear that this is a really simple way to get more out of a flat garden, without completely rebuilding your room.
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rr14 said:
I have a setup similar to what you are talking about.
i love the concept of vertical growing but as i mentioned i have found it to be more labour intensive and in most cases requires more veg time. in the end i found the yeild vs effort to not be more beneficial. then again i only gave it a try or two. anyone with a cage or a coli? i found those systems to look very promising in terms of increased yeilds.
WormSlayer
New member
Distance between centre of pot and light is around 80/90cm.rr14 said:
Nice diagram Mr Celsius!
Some sweet vertical grows there guys!
Attached a few photo's I took yesterday because they look so pretty
Awesome man
sophisto
Member
Heres an idea I had about a vertical setup if I was to ever run one.. ( It is the drawing on the right).
The whole premise that I like about vertical is that you bascially use 360 degrees of the bulb , much more efficiently then a reflector IMO. A buddy of mine that is into martial arts asked me once lets say I throw a punch would you rather be hit by a direct punch or a deflected and reflected punch...I said a deflected one..( I'm fragile...lol) . This theory holds true I think with our grow lights...refelcted light looses some spectrum qualities as it is deflected and then reflected, it is not a direct punch...,,,,Also, more plants less space is always a good thing..
BTW, awesome diagram Mr celcius....
This drawing is for a unit that will be approxiamtely 5x5. Within this perimeter is a 36 " circle...All plants are positioned around the unit making it more appropriate to use pots and also to be able rotate the plants if needed or desired.... The screen I will use has approximatley 6"hexagons as its pattern... The mesh is a very fine gauge and also has the benefit of being able to weave larger plans into the mesh....
I did this drawing on a whim of being high on a very creative haze. I'm not saying my idea is original at all, it's just my idea in drawing form.
There are mathmatical figures as to the watts per sq ft etc of the unit in the text within the drawing, but basically it is 800 watts total and 66 watts per sq ft.
The whole premise that I like about vertical is that you bascially use 360 degrees of the bulb , much more efficiently then a reflector IMO. A buddy of mine that is into martial arts asked me once lets say I throw a punch would you rather be hit by a direct punch or a deflected and reflected punch...I said a deflected one..( I'm fragile...lol) . This theory holds true I think with our grow lights...refelcted light looses some spectrum qualities as it is deflected and then reflected, it is not a direct punch...,,,,Also, more plants less space is always a good thing..
BTW, awesome diagram Mr celcius....
This drawing is for a unit that will be approxiamtely 5x5. Within this perimeter is a 36 " circle...All plants are positioned around the unit making it more appropriate to use pots and also to be able rotate the plants if needed or desired.... The screen I will use has approximatley 6"hexagons as its pattern... The mesh is a very fine gauge and also has the benefit of being able to weave larger plans into the mesh....
I did this drawing on a whim of being high on a very creative haze. I'm not saying my idea is original at all, it's just my idea in drawing form.
There are mathmatical figures as to the watts per sq ft etc of the unit in the text within the drawing, but basically it is 800 watts total and 66 watts per sq ft.
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Guys, I thought I should give you an update. My new vertical setup is going to be like the one shown below except with 8" air cooled tubes and in a darkroom dr150. I'll try to post pics once it's setup. I'm going to be running 1200 watts (2 600 hps) and a small ac unit. I'm still debating on using c02 since in my experience the canned c02 runs me about $80 a month.
Poodo said:Hi rr14 here is my vert-dresser.I have a 150watt hps and two 65watt cfls so 260watts.I just harvested two plants one like three days ago and another today.So I have about a little over a half-o drying.I'm getting a camera soon so there will be updates.I had 6 small plants in there,now there is 8.Right now there is this one nug up front thats got so so big I'll get new pics in a day or so.These are from awhile ago.o and a kitchen oven steam vent for the vent fan.peace
Mostly 12/12 I vegged for like a week on 24/7
This is my first run on with this set up.My next idea is to try to cram one big plant in her, but I like having them stagger in age.
Bodhi Roach
Member
bump, vertical is the bomb!!!
Just started my first vertical attempt, I'll be fitting a screen around the bulb in the next days.
