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"gun violence"

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
it used to be that having a firearm was 5 years, straight up, if you were a felon. then, someone decided "let's make it 10 years" problem being that now it is not mandatory day for day ten years. it frequently gets cut to 5 (or less) because keeping folks in jail is expensive. there have been instances where someone committing a serious crime decides to shoot any witnesses hoping to keep from being caught. "dead men tell no tales" it is a situation without a good solution short of LEO catching them in the act and killing them while resisting arrest, or the victim kills them in self defense...
In the old days time in prison was more about hard labor, now a days it's just about hard time meaning that the punishment of jail is more about having to endure and survive the deplorable and violent life prisoners are allowed to live under. Now granted, doing hard time is a powerful deterrent the thought of having to protect from being raped every day or maybe being killed for a trivial debt like a candy bar or a pack of cigarettes undoubtedly makes many criminals think twice before committing a crime that will get them hard time. The thing is there used to be a time where that sort of thing was the exception rather then the rule and prison guards worked much harder at trying to prevent those sorts of things then they do now. You know back when prison time at least made the attempt to rehabilitate prisoners. Back then there was a lot more emphasis about forcing people to do hard work (hence the term "hard labor") for which the prisoner got some small reimbursement for their work which gave them the opportunity to buy things to make life in prison a little more tolerable. I think at least for violent crimes involving guns they should re-establish such prisons but rather then menial work that is hard but produces things of little value such as working on chain gangs or busting up rocks all day, the work should be hard but produce something of value that can then be sold on the market for a decent return. Also instead of just paying a slave wage of maybe a couple of dollars per day, pay a low but more realistic hourly wage but then take from that a percentage for the housing and food, etc. Have something go towards restitution (where applicable) and force a certain amount set aside in a savings so the inmate had something to work with when released. That then could become what reduces the compensation the prisoner get to use for himself, down to the slave wage of a couple of dollars per day. Then additionally make the stiff sentencing time day for day with no reduction of sentence for good behavior and no early release on parole. It may not deter gun violence but if nothing else it would get violent criminals off the streets for long periods of time and do it in a manner where the prisoner isn't such a burden on society for just warehousing him. Plus since he would have a "savings" to work off when he is finally released maybe he would be less inclined to return to crime just to survive. It might even actually rehabilitate the criminal if the work he did in prison gave him skills for work outside of prison that people don't want to do and therefore employers might be less reluctant to hire an ex convict. I'm not sure if it would be more effective then the "hard time" model prisons operate under now but that's mainly because nobody has ever really tried to create such a prison. Sure there have been prisons that put inmates into hard labor but with few if any of the positive benefits I mentioned above. Without the benefits for society and potentially for the inmate it's much easier to just give up on it if it seems too difficult to enforce. I think it would at least be worth trying out for a while rather then just warehousing people for periods of time that as some inmates might say, one can do "standing on their head." I should also add that since these types of prisons would operate differently then the typical prison of today, they shouldn't be allowed to mix non violent criminals with the violent ones. Having all inmates be the same class of criminal should make it easier to operate uniformly across the entire inmate population and thereby have a great chance for this being a successful prison model. There should probably also be some recognition for violent criminals that might not fit into such a system like the Hannibul Lector type or the Charlie Manson type that would maybe be better served by placing in a maximum security prison for the criminally insane.
 
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armedoldhippy

Well-known member
Veteran
how long before Canada passes laws restricting knives now? i've read that "sharp-pointed" knives are already restricted in England to stop stabbings. ten dead, 15 in hospitals from knife attacks centered on a Cree First Nation area, two suspects being hunted. will whet stones be the new "high-capacity" magazine, allowing killers to slash more people between sharpenings? how about stopping the sale of large trucks so folks that like to jump curbs & crush pedestrians with their vehicles can't get around as well? 86 dead, over 450 injured in Frances Bastille Day attack a few years ago.
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
how long before Canada passes laws restricting knives now? i've read that "sharp-pointed" knives are already restricted in England to stop stabbings. ten dead, 15 in hospitals from knife attacks centered on a Cree First Nation area, two suspects being hunted. will whet stones be the new "high-capacity" magazine, allowing killers to slash more people between sharpenings? how about stopping the sale of large trucks so folks that like to jump curbs & crush pedestrians with their vehicles can't get around as well? 86 dead, over 450 injured in Frances Bastille Day attack a few years ago.
I'm wondering what they're going to do if people just start choking one another to death, will they outlaw hands? Have everyone come in under an anonymous program to have their hands voluntarily cut off. Anonymous so that if someone has a particularly threatening looking pair of hands they don't have to worry about the cops investigating them.
 

armedoldhippy

Well-known member
Veteran
RE - re-offending violent criminals... maybe we should start keeping them all together, give them knives and ball bats & let nature take its course. got fifty? put out 45 plates at dinner. keep going until you only need an executioner for the last one. might cure folks of the urge to attack others. show "meal time" live as a prime time TV show for "educational" purposes...:tiphat: yeah, i know. the SC, even as now staffed, would prob not let this slide by... just a random idea i had. :shucks:
 

Microbeman

The Logical Gardener
ICMag Donor
Veteran
how long before Canada passes laws restricting knives now? i've read that "sharp-pointed" knives are already restricted in England to stop stabbings. ten dead, 15 in hospitals from knife attacks centered on a Cree First Nation area, two suspects being hunted. will whet stones be the new "high-capacity" magazine, allowing killers to slash more people between sharpenings? how about stopping the sale of large trucks so folks that like to jump curbs & crush pedestrians with their vehicles can't get around as well? 86 dead, over 450 injured in Frances Bastille Day attack a few years ago.
I know a good prophylactic; a noose.
 

moose eater

Well-known member
RE - re-offending violent criminals... maybe we should start keeping them all together, give them knives and ball bats & let nature take its course. got fifty? put out 45 plates at dinner. keep going until you only need an executioner for the last one. might cure folks of the urge to attack others. show "meal time" live as a prime time TV show for "educational" purposes...:tiphat: yeah, i know. the SC, even as now staffed, would prob not let this slide by... just a random idea i had. :shucks:
The guards at the prison in Vacaville (spelling?) in California essentially did just that, though not for any lofty or earthy, admirable philosophical approach to lawlessness and violence. The guards were pitting inmates from one gang against inmates from another gang, mostly Crips and Bloods, supposedly, in what were essentially gladiator bouts, with the guards wagering on the whole shindig.

Some of this involved dead inmates as a result.

The guards were busted. Some likely became inmates. Maybe they got to have guards that were reminiscent of the humanity expressed by the former guards themselves.

'And so it goes....' (Vonnegut)

That was close to 30 years ago, and they were the ones that got caught. You can bet safely that it goes on elsewhere where the guards haven't necessarily been caught yet.

I think we all get some degree of animal urge watching 'bad people' suffer. We cheer the rogue cop in the movies who gets too tired of watching the 'bad guys' win. But in the end, we're often, ironically, cheering folks on who really don't represent what we believe more deeply, if we asked ourselves truthfully what a just world looks like.

And there's the issue of how courts, legal representation, and juries really work, who gets convicted, who often doesn't, beyond the basic facts and truth, etc., etc. to season the sense of less-than-judicious outcomes in many cases. Which ought to provoke the question, "Who are 'criminals'?"

Christ, I suspect that if minimum mandatory sentences were still in effect like they were 30-40 years ago, many of us here would be eligible for some -startling- sentences, and some of us were willing to defend what was ours with force if needed back then, as today.

Where's the line?
 
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moose eater

Well-known member
There are many other accounts, but this one popped up quick and dirty, so.... dated 1996.


And this one, right beneath it in the search results.


I did find it a bit amusing thta when it comes to reporting on this sort of thing, the first 2 'hits' were from UK sources. I guess we still sometimes prefer to conceal our dirty laundry.
 

armedoldhippy

Well-known member
Veteran
Christ, I suspect that if minimum mandatory sentences were still in effect like they were 30-40 years ago, many of us here would be eligible for some -startling- sentences, and some of us were willing to defend what was ours with force if needed back then, as today.

Where's the line?
i'd bet good money that many of us, if discovered, charged, and convicted of everything which we did in our lives that was illegal, and served the max sentence day for day, would be serving life plus terms & never walk free again...fuck, we break the laws every day & don't even know it! or do know it and don't give even a small shit...:whistling:
 

moose eater

Well-known member
A distant neighbor was poped in 1992 by a federal task force. All he had at the time was 18 plants, but they had him on tape bragging about the amount of pot he'd grown over the years.. recorded at a family dinner by a LONG-TIME family 'friend' the feds had flipped.

He was facing (up to) life in the federal house due to federal charges of conspiracy and 'operating a continuing criminal enterprise', among other charges. He served 11 years of that, in real time.

So, for many years when I hear or read the word 'criminal', I consider the wide range of definitions re. what that means. After which I ask whom ever is referring to that word if they ever drive over 55 mph? And then, when they inevitably say, "Yes," unless they're also a liar, I might pat them on the back and say, "Welcome to the club!!" :)
 

armedoldhippy

Well-known member
Veteran
A distant neighbor was poped in 1992 by a federal task force. All he had at the time was 18 plants, but they had him on tape bragging about the amount of pot he'd grown over the years.. recorded at a family dinner by a LONG-TIME family 'friend' the feds had flipped.

He was facing (up to) life in the federal house due to federal charges of conspiracy and 'operating a continuing criminal enterprise', among other charges. He served 11 years of that, in real time.

So, for many years when I hear or read the word 'criminal', I consider the wide range of definitions re. what that means. After which I ask whom ever is referring to that word if they ever drive over 55 mph? And then, when they inevitably say, "Yes," unless they're also a liar, I might pat them on the back and say, "Welcome to the club!!" :)
i always used the term "criminal" in reference to someone that committed a crime in which there was an actual "victim" myself. "no harm, no foul" for most shit is my motto. this is NOT to say that i think folks that violate other laws should be sent on their way with a slap on the wrist. got a fellow in the news this morning over in Scott Co. Virginia, was caught with "between 11 & 49 cannabis plants". over 4 still illegal there. penalty ? fined $250 and NO jail time, not even suspended. we should be so damn lucky here in Tennessee... is he a criminal? fuck, no!
 

armedoldhippy

Well-known member
Veteran
news tonight - two 17 year old boys & a 12 year old were at home in Harris County Texas when 3 men in ski masks started trying to break in. one of the older boys armed himself with a shotgun & opened up on them. when LEO arrived, 2 of the 3 were found "unresponsive" (dead) and the 3rd had hauled ass unwounded, apparently. the local DA is going to let a grand jury look at it just to be sure. i'll be surprised as hell if they recommend any charges myself, unless they locate the 3rd guy.
 

Capt.Ahab

Feeding the ducks with a bun.
Veteran
news tonight - two 17 year old boys & a 12 year old were at home in Harris County Texas when 3 men in ski masks started trying to break in. one of the older boys armed himself with a shotgun & opened up on them. when LEO arrived, 2 of the 3 were found "unresponsive" (dead) and the 3rd had hauled ass unwounded, apparently. the local DA is going to let a grand jury look at it just to be sure. i'll be surprised as hell if they recommend any charges myself, unless they locate the 3rd guy.
Too bad #3 isnt also taking a dirt nap.
 

moose eater

Well-known member
first come, first served. :smoke: kid MIGHT have had a double barrel & did not get reloaded quickly enough. i'd bet #3 finds a "different line of work" to go into if nothing else...:yoinks:
Where's your good ol' American sense of stick-to-it-ness? "If at first you don't succeed".... go back and see if you can get the other arm shot off too.

I've always said the hospitals and morgues are plumb full of ignorant individuals who thought they didn't need to pay attention, and who tended to get peeved at folks who focused excessively on details.. Details like, "Hey, do you think anyone's home there?" "Do you think they might have a gun?"

Inconsequential stuff like that.
 

armedoldhippy

Well-known member
Veteran
Where's your good ol' American sense of stick-to-it-ness? "If at first you don't succeed".... go back and see if you can get the other arm shot off too.

I've always said the hospitals and morgues are plumb full of ignorant individuals who thought they didn't need to pay attention, and who tended to get peeved at folks who focused excessively on details.. Details like, "Hey, do you think anyone's home there?" "Do you think they might have a gun?"

Inconsequential stuff like that.
some folks are in a hurry to see if there is a heaven or hell...:whistling:
 

moose eater

Well-known member
some folks are in a hurry to see if there is a heaven or hell...:whistling:
Or they think that natural consequences for high-risk behaviors are those things that happen to the other home invaders.... Not them. Probably still wondering how it all went so badly. And maybe trying to find 2 new friends who are willing to do stupid stuff without thinking too deeeply about it in advance.
 

armedoldhippy

Well-known member
Veteran
latest survey results show that defensive use of firearms occurs much more often than previously known. new estimates are of over 1.67 million incidents a year here in the states. authors said that in over 80%, no shots were fired, with just the perceived ability to defend ones self being enough to end the situation. nearly 50% occurred indoors at owners home, with about 20% happening out in their yard. so much for saying that "good guys with guns don't matter"... maybe we should pass a law REQUIRING you to shoot somebody that invades your home/threatens you. it would sure change the numbers...and put a screeching halt to repeat offenders as well. :tiphat:
 

Hermanthegerman

Know your rights
Veteran
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