Benefits of Vertical Growing

[papaduc]

I respect ur opinion papaduc I just disagree with a lot of ur points that u think flat is easier over vert.

That's no problem bro. It's just my opinion after all.

U can say training isn't easier for u and I believe u. But it is easier for me. Can u believe me.

Yea definitely. Everyone's methods and mentality are different. What's easy for you mightn't be for me and vice versa.

One question though: in your setup, how would you say you'd get on if you left your plants untrained vs leaving them untrained under a horizontal light in terms of your yield of quality buds?

I don't have any pics as im new to posting so still getting my feet wet and feeling this forum thing out. But I will take camera recommendations as I am contemplating doing so.

I think there's a sub forum for that? I'm not sure. I'm no camera expert myself and I'm in teh same boat as you in needing one. If you get any recommendations give me a shout, I'm looking into it myself.

I wish I knew how to take individual quotes as u have done with my post

When you press the quote button, at the top of your new message is that person's quote.

It'll be sandwiched between this

and this [ /quote]

All I do is copy the first bit

Now separate the bit you want to quote individually, then paste that above it, and manually type the other brackety bit at the bit at the bottom.

Do the same for all the bits you want to highlight.

There might be a better way of doing it but that's what I do

But in my opinion if u have a lot of the knowledge and experience for both ways, vert offers a higher ceiling of potential yield per watt of light because of the canopy area around a closer proximity to the light.

Question is, who's getting what numbers and how much work are they putting in to get those?

Check out that other thread and see what you make of it.

 

[papaduc]

Nice walls ichabod crane, what was the yield?

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Don't know but I get 4.5-5 pounds with mixed strains. Some low yielders and some high yielders. Best I have gotten was 22.5 ounces on one plant. With 5 others to be counted. I think it averages 12-14 ounces each for 6 plants. If I really wanted to get yield I am sure I could get 6-7 pounds or more in that room.

My first vert was 28 ounces with a single 1000 watt bulb.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

To me this set up fits my area very well and is so much easier to run. Like Med says this is the easiest set up for a bad back. No bending over. You sit for the bottom and stand for the top. You will never do that in a flat grow in a 5X7 room and get the yield that is possible with this grow style.

It is true that this grow does require more work to set up and start out. But it is the best set up for a small area like I have. After about the 4 week it is done with only tying buds up because the fall. If done right the fans can stay for the most part.

You do have to have the right strain for this set up to max out production. Same as flat, some are good and some are a nightmare to run. They require a crap ton of work all threw flower. But I can run sativas and indicas in the same setup which is a chore in a flat grow to get the light correct.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I have not been getting into these arguments because it just gets to the point were everyone gets mad at each other. So I stay out of the fray and keep my grow growing.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

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[Miraculous Meds]

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[Ichabod Crane]

have u tried all d star in ur setup bro. .

No it is to much for me to move at once. I run 2-4 at most in a room. I need variety to make it go away and that is what this set up lets me have. The deathstar is a heavy mover for sure. Allways in demand but moving that much in 3-4 weeks would be tough.

Plus it is so damn sticky it is a bitch to trim. ADD makes me have to have variety to focus on the trim.

 

[DrFever]

Crane i did 4.75 pounds in 4x8 flat screen 2000 watts with not a high yielding strain was that death star strain you grew ????? and how many watts did you use ???? what does strain say for yields per m2 ??? i read somewhere 1800 grms per m2 or is that out to lunch
Give me critical kush i bet yea i hit 6 - 7 with 5 week veg 2k 4 plants this weekend i start my ppk build 2 plant critical kush 110 - 120 watts per m2 trees 10 gallon mediums 15 gallon res main res 45 gallon with 900 watts of LEP plasma 400 MH's double stacked and two Gavita's my goal is 8 pounds min 2 plants C02 induced critical kush we will see horizontal / outside plasma's angled one in middle of gavita's horizontal 400's scattered will see how growth goes maybe 10 week veg to get the trees i am looking for this is for shit and giggles also

 

[Ichabod Crane]

What kind of access did you have to that 4X8 area? When I say 5X7 that includes access to the plants. If I was to do a 4X8 I would have 3 square foot to work on my plants in. I am much to fat to fit in a 3 square foot area let alone reach all of my plants.

The 1 pound death star that meds mentioned was with 1600 watts. I now run 2000 watts to get the numbers I mentioned above.

My veg time is about the same as yours.

Let me run the deathstar or that critical kush I am sure I would get your 6-7 pounds.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

No it is to much for me to move at once. I run 2-4 at most in a room. I need variety to make it go away and that is what this set up lets me have. The deathstar is a heavy mover for sure. Allways in demand but moving that much in 3-4 weeks would be tough.

Plus it is so damn sticky it is a bitch to trim. ADD makes me have to have variety to focus on the trim.

The one negative besides it stinks like skunk fuel if u go somewhere not cool, is u gotta scrape them scissors every 2nd bud. I have a couple extra scissors soaking in alcohol I like to rotate to make it a bit faster.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I go threw 5-6 scissors per ounce. Using a razor blade. An yes forget going some where anytime soon. I have a OG that is worse on the smell if you can believe that. Gives me a headache to trim it is so strong.

 

[DrFever]

Im with u bro, I want to learn and help others not argue that im right or ur wrong. Fuk that shit it doesn't help.

U were one of the bigger influences for me to go the vert screens. that d star u hit a pound with got me thinking, Man if u loaded all 6 sites with d start and hit a pound were talking 2688g divided by 1600w equals 1.68gpw. That got me willy hard lol.... have u tried all d star in ur setup bro. Ive hit just under a p with my d star on a 4 site with 600s, so if I run all 4 that would be 1.5 gpw, and my d star could have been another foot taller gaining a little more potential yield for sure.

I didn't think those numbers were possible unless u did large plant number sogs, but I saw the light, and brother IC showed it to me.

Hey but you mention you hit almost a pound with your D star with 600's so not one but 2 ??? right ???? so with 1200 watts what did it put you on Grm per watt not very good
I never came into vertical section to start a war in reality i would care less how some one grows but it bothers me when miss leading info is spewed like vertical is so much better,, better yielding when i find it hard to find any journals here or anyother place that proves its better just because by theory you get more space means nothing when it comes to yield as i have seen so far you can only put so many plants around a vert bulb then there are other machines where you can place 200 clones and straight to flower with a machine turning plants around plant and so on

Cranes 1600 watt grow i think it comes out to .85 or .87 per watt and even tho well done its far from saying vertical out yields horizontal death star is a pretty neat strain with some nice buds and a shit load of small ones from reviews i been reading for the life of me i cannot find yield specifics per m2 but really who cares

You have to factor in veg times not sure hopefully crane will chime in how long he did veg times are longer in order to get into that 14 - 18 oz mark for me thats flipping a clone into flower 5.5 weeks vegging and only flowering 43 days and chop in order to get consistent 14 - 18 oz plant i did a few grows way back and most pics are on another site of 72 - 76 plant rooms untouched vegged 5 weeks 7 pound harvests 4 rooms 2000 watts per room plus clone room
And like you said vertical works for you cause of your back and that's awesome but i would really like to see your 1.6 gram per watt pictures you must be a jedi grower best i can do is 1180 dry grams per 1000 watt horizontal trying to beat that this year with a huge yielding strain and supplemental Plasma lighting as well trying a new style of growing as i am bored with soil grows here are the 7 pound rooms 2 k in lighting first few pics and my last scrog i did 3 k 12 plant 7- 1/4 pound dry with 3/4 pound of hash from some lower B grade buds i left on for that purpose

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Sure the deathstar was one plant out of six. And it was in a 1600 watt room. Yes the yield was about what you said.

So lets look at the truth of the grow. I raped the shit out of the plant because I had mites. I was running two plants that I had never run before. I had two plants that are not known for there yield and are shyed away from because of low yield. One of which was smaller than I would have liked to use. Also one of the other high yielders you talk about was 1/3 smaller than the other plants. Oh yes I also had less than a year total of growing experience. As a matter of fact I had 8 months since my first harvest.

 

[DrFever]

What kind of access did you have to that 4X8 area? When I say 5X7 that includes access to the plants. If I was to do a 4X8 I would have 3 square foot to work on my plants in. I am much to fat to fit in a 3 square foot area let alone reach all of my plants.

The 1 pound death star that meds mentioned was with 1600 watts. I now run 2000 watts to get the numbers I mentioned above.

My veg time is about the same as yours.

Let me run the deathstar or that critical kush I am sure I would get your 6-7 pounds.

my 4x8 walk around was in dead heat of summer no exhaust fan mylar slapped together in basement hahaha just had fans blowing on plants

 

[papaduc]

I have not been getting into these arguments because it just gets to the point were everyone gets mad at each other. So I stay out of the fray and keep my grow growing.

I don't think enough people have the attitude that it's ok to flat out disagree with a point or a stance, to completely oppose it, without it being personal.

I think people forget that we're talking about plants here and we all do this for our own reason, whether you're a hobbyist or this is your living, we're all after the same thing - the best results and the best numbers.

The reason I came here to talk about this is simply because I think it's wrong that vert is portrayed by some to be so much more efficient in practice than horizontal. I think there's very little between them.

I saw the light and realized 4 big plants looks a lot less to cops than a few hundred little girls. Any way to answer ur q id be making a lot more bho and having a lot less gpw. So I answered honest but theres more to it. Since I do have the knowledge and experience I know I have to train and work to hit higher gpw. But I believe this is true for any grow, just less so with sog, but then ur back up to big plant numbers.

For me its always been u want more put in the work.

Agree with the last bit.

We're on the finer point of the argument here...

What u describe as easier horizontal, (smaller plants not training as much) I see more as easier sog vs larger scrog plants. Not easier hor. vs vert.

SOG yea I agree, too many plants.

But.. look at this

You can throw 6 of those under a 600w at that size, flip them, and leave them. That'll guarantee about 17-18oz I'd say. That's not many plant numbers and it's no screen to have to work with either. It's just a case of topping, vegging and flipping.

By other thread I think u mean drfevers switch back thread. If so I have stayed clear cause I didn't want to get into flaming arguments and I had a feeling that's were it was going

For me that thread is all about the numbers, that's all. If people keep to the subject then, even if certain styles of approach are challenging, the right things still come out of it. Even if people flat out disagree with each other, the numbers don't lie, you know... that's what it's all about.

There definitely isn't as much in it as I think some people are led to believe and I think the premise on the first page of "yields horizontal can't compete with" should be tied in with the reality that, in practice and for many reasons, horizontal often out-yields it.

Vertical growing comes with some serious challenges, and it's those challenges that stop it from being the hyper efficient super yielder that a lot of people go into it thinking it will be.

It's those challenges which ultimately balance the scales with horizontal, and mean that in the end the results don't marry up with statistics like "135% more growing area" If they did, there's be no debate.

 

[Snow Crash]

I don't think enough people have the attitude that it's ok to flat out disagree with a point or a stance, to completely oppose it, without it being personal.

I think people forget that we're talking about plants here and we all do this for our own reason, whether you're a hobbyist or this is your living, we're all after the same thing - the best results and the best numbers.

The reason I came here to talk about this is simply because I think it's wrong that vert is portrayed by some to be so much more efficient in practice than horizontal. I think there's very little between them.

Hi Papaduc,
Have you grown vertically yourself? More than 1 time?

Or are you just blowing steam over something you have no experience with, choosing to ignore the logic that the concept is based on? Basically, challenging a widely-held belief simply because you think your opinion is more valuable than those who have taken the time and effort to see the results for themselves.

 

[papaduc]

Hi Papaduc,
Have you grown vertically yourself? More than 1 time?

Or are you just blowing steam over something you have no experience with, simply ignoring the logic that the concept is based on?

Yes, I'm completely ignoring the concept which vertical growing is based on. Which is why my posts revolve completely around the concepts which vertical is based on vs how they apply in practice.

Can I ask you a question, do you think you can ask a question without being so patronising and condescending. Maybe "papaduc, how many times have you grown vertically"

Have a go. It's easy.

 

[Snow Crash]

Yes, I'm completely ignoring the concept which vertical growing is based on. Which is why my posts revolve completely around the concepts which vertical is based on vs how they apply in practice.

Can I ask you a question, do you think you can ask a question without being so patronising and condescending. Maybe "papaduc, how many times have you grown vertically"

Have a go. It's easy.

LOL... So... You haven't grown vertically?

I take it you've never done this before.

 

[papaduc]

I take it you've never done this before.

That'll be because you've only read this page.