YOUR WORST/DISAPOINTED/OVERATED STRAIN(S)

Grat3fulh3ad · Sep 3, 2006

natefrog said:
quote:

"but bottom line I think there are alot more breeders that could sell their seeds at nirvana prices than would like to own up to it."
"I could well have it wrong though. because what I don't understand is that if you've got something you can produce an almost unlimited supply of practically free than why not sell it cheap since its legal to sell seeds in a'dam? after all you can sell alot more nickel bags than you can sell half ounces right?"

Thank You!!..........doesnt quite jive with the------ "I just enjoy spreading natures beautiful, bountiful gifts to the people"--- act that many of them put on.........you just got 3000 beans of one gifted plant and you want 150+ for 10?.........please.........spare me the phony idealism.......i mean, i agree that a breeder can end up investing serious time to a strain if done right......but even taking that and the risk factor (that we ALL live with) into account its still an extreme (or obscene, depending on your POV) profit margin........i doubt most are renting huge commercial facilities, employing a workforce, and growing 1000's of plants...........which might be a justifiable investment and reason to charge hundreds for 10/15 beans.......indeed i think many would be astounded at how many of their precious/expensive/top of the line genetics are bred in closets off 18inch seed mums....lol......nf

ps..........good lord i am now a complete cynic......i guess someone gotta be, right?

Yeah... but there are other factors to consider when pricing seeds...
First... overhead... rent an 1100.00 a month property just to grow in... Pay 450.00 a month in utilities to light, water, heat and cool the grow... Not growing where you live, and daily visiting the grow, coupled with the time spent selecting, testing, nurturing, harvesting, and seed sorting adds in roughly 25 hours of labor per week totaling at least 2000.00 per month. Plus the Bud that you don't get...

So We end up with the breeder having around 3600.00 a month captial and time invested...

The seed vendor or distributor is going to end up keeping %50 of the seed price, So a $120 pack of seeds is worth $60 to the breeder... This puts the breeder needing to sell 60 packs of seeds per month to break even... and everyone of us knows that it is hard to live with a 'break even' income...

While there are 'hot' breeders out there who can easily sell their minimum necessary 60 packs of seeds each and every month, even double or tripple this number, There are also breeders who don't.

This is just my take on seed pricing and why it is like it is.

Also, my response has nothing to do with the fact that I make seeds...
I don't plan to ever make a living breeding...
I make hybrids for myself, and make the excess available at a price that I wouldn't mind paying for them...
If there are enough request after they are gone, I'll make more...

Anyhow, just my take on the market forces at work in the seed biz...

natefrog · Sep 3, 2006

hey G, ive really admired your grows over the years.........you make a good point, although i think many of us consumers have many of those bills also.............so you think $10-$15 a seed is generally justified?...........(im honestly wondering, no sarcasm intended)..............nf

Guest · Sep 3, 2006

very interesting thread.All what I read would lead me into thinking that it is 100% stupid to pay for an expensive strain other than skunk 1, kusk, afghan, haze, durban and the pure sativas.
The most amazing strains I've grown were both from expensive an cheap breeders.The very best of these have been amongst the cheapest from the expensive one : shiva shanti, super skunk.
That seed thing is a very interesting business, I cant see why one should trust a seed bank more than he should trust an insurance guy or a lawyer.That's all marketing !

It takes many euros and lots of time and patience to get kick ass moms, unless you're still satisfied with products that are under 98% thc, like I am.It is the quality of the high that does everything, not the quantity of it.

skunk 1, pure haze, afghan, shiva, kush, durban...I never saw a bad individual nor a single male flower on those.

Lately, I grew two females that were from a strain develloped by a friend : nirvana's christal crossed with a white widow twice.

1st pheno : white widow appearance, turned purple.Full of resin like nothing I had seen.cut, cured, smoked : no taste, no effect at all.no thc in there.

2nd pheno :a clone was put into flowering when it was 2-3 inches.large soft pale green indica leaves.killer smell.It grew about 1 meter and a half in the next 15 days, and was huge in every way, the stem was thick as my thumb, branches were huge with very few internodes, the growing tips looked like cabbage .once it touched the roof and started growing downwards I cut it, and smoked the 3 weeks old buds, and should not have: too potent, very bad effect.I found one nice pheno that is actually.....just a chrystal like one.

I'm not looking into expensive, so called killer strains no more.I don't have the surface for that, nor the money.

natefrog · Sep 3, 2006

i suppose that is a big genealization to make.....considering the variety of quality........dumb question, sorry........here's an excerpt from a pm of mine (names changed to protect the guilty)....lol......tell me what you think:

funny story about those ***** ******* shots.......******* is selling his ****** ****** **** on ******** using my ***** ******* pics (its sold out,lol)......i pm'ed him and referenced the pics but told him that I didnt really mind........but that I was interested in getting one of his TShirts that have the "********
********" logo.......and how might i go about getting one (hoping he'd offer one, or at least a discount, for all the free and obviously effective advertising i've given him/he's taken).......after all, he's charging alot for them, and they are sold out.......he replied by telling me, in so many words, that i should feel "honored" that my photography was chosen to sell his seeds.......and that he, of course, could make them look just as good.......(wonder why he doesnt use HIS shots then?)........and that the TShirts are $25 each, 2 for $50, cash only, blah blah............i havent decided how yet to respond but im pretty put off by it.......i feel disrespected........am i overreacting?.......he must have made thousands.......which is fine, more power to him........but one TShirt?.......perhaps that is coloring my responses to this thread........nate

ps......i think im gonna post this into the thread, without naming ***, whaddya think?.........am i crazy?

Grat3fulh3ad · Sep 3, 2006

natefrog said:
hey G, ive really admired your grows over the years.........you make a good point, although i think many of us consumers have many of those bills also.............so you think $10-$15 a seed is generally justified?...........(im honestly wondering, no sarcasm intended)..............nf

I think that there are strains for which $10 - $15 retail ($5.00 - $7.50) wholesale, is justified... On the whole, I'd think $3.00 to $6.00 wholesale would be most 'fair' all around...
And yes consumers have similar bills to pay...
Breeders who maintain a house for growing, also have an additional set of personal bills and living expenses...

Unfortunately, economy is market driven...
Prices will always gravitate to what the most people are willing to pay...
I routinely pay $1.29 for a bottle of water, talk about obscene markup...

Guest · Sep 3, 2006

if theguy is an ass and stole your photo you can sue him and get some royalties.If you or he lives in a country where taking such photos dont get you into trouble...personnaly if it was the case I'd sue him like I sue people who steal my art/pics for commercial matters

gaiusmarius · Sep 3, 2006

i think one thing that people tend to get confused about, is the so called legality of cannabis seeds.

selling seeds is allowed in some countries, ie. holland etc. but that's the thing, only selling seeds is allowed. growing plants to manufacture those seeds is NOT allowed and will be treated like any other grow op by law enforcement.

so you see the seed breeder takes the same risk as a grower, but he has no buds to show for his risk, like a grower would have. see where this is going? the seeds are the crop, which then have to be sold in the open putting the breeder even more at risk. draw your own conclusions.

peace out

natefrog · Sep 3, 2006

if you do the math, seeds are WAY more profitable than bud, with comparable penalties, so i guess i would disagree.........n

Guest · Sep 3, 2006

Boy $6, $15 thats not enough for a small breeder. I myself have no problem spending $30 to 50 a pack (which breeder gets half). I know how much just my little grow cost.. :yoinks:

So for a small guy to just get a little over his/her cost a month is fine.

After all isn't watching something you bred grow into some super dank bud for some lucky peep enough.. For some it is.. :wave:

Grat3fulh3ad · Sep 3, 2006

Not entirely accutate nate... Buds grown to sell turn into money instantly... seeds slowly turn into money over the course of time...

Grat3fulh3ad · Sep 3, 2006

Stoned Silly said:
Boy $6, $15 thats not enough for a small breeder. I myself have no problem spending $30 to 50 a pack (which breeder gets half). I know how much just my little grow cost.. So for a small guy to just get a little over his/her cost a month is fine.

After all isn't watching something you bred grow into some super dank bud for some lucky peep enough.. For some it is..

Sorry, SS... that $6 and $15 were per seed prices I'll edit my post to be more clear...

Guest · Sep 3, 2006

I'd like to through something in the fire. For years' i've disagree'd with some of the breeder's prices. I do not agree with seeds being priced over 100 bucks. One cross i've always wanted and never bought, Neville's Haze. Man, if you check Green Houses prices right now. It's up to 181.27 at SB. Now for me, that's way to much and i'd rather wait for Shanti to restock. Now, will i pay that much for them. YES, i will, because i really want them. The point of me ranting. People will pay just about anything for a cross or a strain if they truely want it. I remember selling those four packs of seeds on seedbay before the site went down. I think the total price for all four pack came in at just under 1000 bucks and they all where paid for. Do i feel bad about the price? Yes, did i use the money. Of course i did, because i needed it. I personally don't think seeds should be sold more then about 75 bucks. When the time comes and i do get back into the game. I won't be selling my seeds for much. A fair price is all i want. I rather sell a ton for a fair price then sell a few for alot. This is my personal opion. Not flaming anyone, just how i personal feel about high price seeds. I will still buy high dollar seeds if i want them. Just how it is. I think marketing plays a large roll on seed prices also, but i've ranted enough for now. Take care all and i hope you have a Super Holiday weekend.
later,
BG

Grat3fulh3ad · Sep 3, 2006

And of course it is enough to see them in the hands of skilled growers... That's why I give away nearly as many seeds as I sell...
And let's look at a small breeder getting a little over their cost each month...

A pack sells for $50 in which are 12 seeds...
$25.00 to the breeder

I get 300 - 600 seeds when I make a batch
I put 12 to 15 seeds in a pack so that's 30 - 40 packs
Net = $1000

I spent as much time and money growing that plant to easily offset 1.5 oz of buds. $600
I sent an overnight package overseas. $165.00

That's $765 cost
and $1000 income

leaving $245 for the 6 hours I spent cleaning, sorting, counting, and packaging seeds, making just under Plumber's scale wage, for an illegal black market activity that's not much profit margin...

And I have to wait a month for them to sell before I see a dime...

Grat3fulh3ad · Sep 3, 2006

Sorry to go a bit Off Topic, BTW... And for the record ' I also think anything over $120 for a pack of seeds is exploitation of the market, and very unfair'...

The exception being rere and out of production lines....

Guest · Sep 3, 2006

Grat3fulh3ad said:
And of course it is enough to see them in the hands of skilled growers... That's why I give away nearly as many seeds as I sell...
And let's look at a small breeder getting a little over their cost each month...

A pack sells for $50 in which are 12 seeds...
$25.00 to the breeder

I get 300 - 600 seeds when I make a batch
I put 12 to 15 seeds in a pack so that's 30 - 40 packs
Net = $1000

I spent as much time and money growing that plant to easily offset 1.5 oz of buds. $600
I sent an overnight package overseas. $165.00

That's $765 cost
and $1000 income

leaving $245 for the 6 hours I spent cleaning, sorting, counting, and packaging seeds, making just under Plumber's scale wage, for an illegal black market activity that's not much profit margin...

And I have to wait a month for them to sell before I see a dime...

I totally agree with you Head and know the whole deal. For what you got going and the seeds you got up. You can't bet that deal for what the consumer's are buying. The waiting does suck when the bills are coming in and they can't wait. I think market would be the ticket for small breeder's, but like you said. The key word "Black Market", you got to watch out for the jail time for sure. If a small breeder could get a sale flow going. I think they could do better, but being new and a small breeder. That is the problem with sales. I remember BOG starting out. Then everything start to explode. Marketing and a great priced product. This should allow for better sales and less waiting on return cash flow. Just my opion, glad to see and hear your opions. Always love to hear what the Head family has to say.
Take care,
BG

Guest · Sep 3, 2006

I'm outta this thread.Noone will care much, but Weed is a gift of god/nature.dealing it or making money out of it is quite the opposite of what I look for.Enjoy, everyone.

Grat3fulh3ad · Sep 3, 2006

chrystal said:
I'm outta this thread.Noone will care much, but Weed is a gift of god/nature.dealing it or making money out of it is quite the opposite of what I look for.Enjoy, everyone.

It absolutely is a gift from Nature! And making money is not a goal in life, it is a necessity... If it didn't take Money to Eat... If it Didn't take money to grow... Then you could justify looking down at people who have to sell their work to live...

Guest · Sep 3, 2006

ive bought seed for years, (not in the last year though) ive paid 20 a pack and well ive paid 325.00 a pk. price is definitly not associated with quality.

i really dont buy seed anymore, but when checkin out offerins and auction sites anything 100.00 or more i dont even look at. ive grown enough offerins over the years, i know there isnt to much difference between alot of offerins on the market.

i dont know about most peeps, but i like tasty, nice smellin pot, and the #1 criteria is the head. as someone had said, power weed. in my experience, you have to go thru a lot of seed to find the best, i dont care what line it is, 10 beans is like playin the lottery for a keeper. just cause you spent 150.00 is no guarantee your commin home a millionaire.

i have 1 actual keeper in 3 plus years now, and that plant came from the second gen done here. wasnt even in the original beans, and originated from a small time breeder, not a big house.

imo i think peeps are expectin to much from there single pack of beans,

CBF

Guest · Sep 3, 2006

i think your right ^^^

some ppl just totally but into the hype and expect the plant to come out Killa. They forget about the basics and just and just assume the plant will be dank.
i just got a 10 pack of nirvana and 2 freebies. Every single lil bean popped up. all 120-

While in other threads peepes are complaining of poor germ rate with the somango freebies. I got the same batch and they are fine.

Although the white rhinos didnt crack like the rest of them in 12hrs- i just had to put on some rubber gloves and pinch them until i heard a pop- then they All had a tail the next day. BTW i pressure steam my mix before i put any seeds in it.

Guest · Sep 3, 2006

no worry I dont look down on you(s)

I never sold it, even when I had a bunch and was starving, and didn't buy it even when I hadn't smoked in a year and some great buds were available.but again, that's a personal choice

edited : and I agree...I feel quite lost in this "c99xdieselxxb129xinsertscifinameherexgimmeyoursoul" maze.

glassmaster : I like to hear that: I have had the strains you see in my sig f or a while.They're so mixed up they have no identity.I was full of hesitation, but I'm going there : I'm gonna buy , from nirvana : afghani, chitral, kush, shiva, haze (I have skunk 1 already).Maybe the white rhino and ice for the try.I'l definitely get several mums in them.

forgot: also "satori" from mandala seeds.a simple sativa/indica hybrid that I heard is very good.20 euros

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YOUR WORST/DISAPOINTED/OVERATED STRAIN(S)

Grat3fulh3ad

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