WTF is w/feminized genetics,

[freefields]

You know it seams to me know matter what i bring to the table you few just throw it back into my face with piss poor replies yet you have added what research to back your claims up .

What else i would like to high lite is how many new members have just appeared out of no were that are also desperately trying to hold on to their ignorant beliefs on fem seeds.

You haven't brought anything to the table worthy of more than a quick glance yet!

Piss-poor replies? What research? Claims? Are you friggin blind!

People have laid it all out on a plate for ya and you just ignore it, you have this crazy idea that you won't shift from and you are ignoring all the hard science being laid before you that proves you are talking nothing but arse gravy of the highest order!

Ignorant beliefs? Fuck man, that takes the biscuit, Brian and myself have presented good hard science about the genetics of cannabis and the technique of selfing through the use of Silver and GA3. We don't have any beliefs, ignorant or otherwise, we have hard facts, facts you are just ignoring.

You don't even understand how feminised seeds are made so how you can continue to argue is beyond me. Go back to believing you invented the bucket with a hole in it you crazy old fool!

 

[elmanito]

You know it seams to me know matter what i bring to the table you few just throw it back into my face with piss poor replies yet you have added what research to back your claims up .

What else i would like to high lite is how many new members have just appeared out of no were that are also desperately trying to hold on to their ignorant beliefs on fem seeds.

‘Kompolti Hybrid TC’ (registered in 1983) is a three-way-cross hybrid in which two selections from Chinese origin, ‘Kinai Kétlaki’ (dioecious) and ‘Kinai Egylaki’ (monoecious), and ‘Kompolti’ are combined. The first step of the crossing (‘Kinai dioecious’ x ‘Kinai monoecious’) where the monoecious parent acts as pollen spender, gives a unisexual, almost pure female F1, called ‘Kinai Uniszex’. This unisexual progeny can be considered as an analogue for male sterile breeding lines. It is subsequently used as a female parent in the crossing (‘Kinai Uniszex’ x ‘Kompolti’) which produces the commercial three-way-cross hybrid ‘Kompolti Hybrid TC’, which has again a 50/50 sex ratio.

A single cross hybrid cultivar is ‘Uniko-B’ (registered in 1969). It is a hybrid progeny of ‘Kompolti’ x ‘Fibrimon 21’, where the monoecious ‘Fibrimon 21’ acts as a pollen spender. The F1, being almost unisexual female, is used to produce an F2, containing approximately 30% males, which is cultivated for fiber.

Namaste

 

[mrwags]

It to me seems like some of you kids lol are trying to get along.

I would like to put a spin on this thread to ask those of us who have been here long enough to know.

A total newbie get's linked here by a friend of a friend and decides to grow his own. He spends a couple hundred dollars on high class beans kills 4 of them germing gets 6 started 3 turn out male and the other 3 he kills while trying to learn the craft.

Now this same guy spends 30 bucks on some Female Seeds Special Skunk kills five in germ kills 3 more in veg and flower but ends up with some good bud to smoke for little investment.

This same guy takes some cuts from the 3 he has left and learns how to clone. Does another grow or 2 and get's into what this hobby takes and after 2 or 3 grows (that he has 30.00 invested) it goes big time and spends 200.00 on some Big Name beans only this time he only loses 2 in germ 3 turns out male and he's got 5 good plants left he grows out clones and then continues the cycle of sharing the love.

Bottom Line he's still in the game.

Now I know a lot of you out right hate female seeds and that is your right,but please understand this PLEASE.

I have been growing Female Seeds long before female beans were cool and or excepted. The Team provides damn good genetics for a damn low price.

Female beans do have a purpose,if that purpose is to simply get NEW GROWERS involved in our hobby WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THAT?

Anyone can make female beans but DAMN FEW can make GREAT female beans just like the top shelf stuff they have on the Bay everyday so go figure.

It saddens me to see great members bicker like this in open forum. If I was a new member and read some of the postings in this thread and paid attention to the said posters join date I might be inclined to seek help elsewhere and that is the saddest point of all because some of you are the best there is plain and simple and for those of you who think otherwise your only fooling yourself.

Share the knowledge not the ego's because it all comes from a seed male or female so we are all needed in the end.

My Penny
Mr.Wags

 

[Tom Hill]

Pedigree selection - line selection where single plant selection is also applied/added (combined selection).. Coupled with progeny testing and the ability to maintain parental genotypes in vegetative form,,, this is by far the most efficient method in plant breeding -in a genetical/mathematical sense- if selfing is possible. Selfing is possible in cannabis by way of "sex reversal", and hurray for that, imo.

Folks are misinformed or simply have been duped who feel their favored breeders are somehow doing things more correctly solely because he/she only uses M/F breeding techs. As much as anybody wants to believe that, it simply doesn't wash. -T

 

[Tom Hill]

No one here has grow there fem seeds 2 or 3 or more generations to see there out come have you yet you have all the answers .

Hempy,

Decades ago, I personally was growing out/breeding/observing/smoking Northern Lights that had no less than 5 generations of selfing by the keel before they simply ruined it over there with what you seem to think are preferred techs. You're just wrong dude. Just because you think it is new to you, does not mean it is new - not even to you. I am sure you've smoked very little material that have no products of reversals in its breeding background - regardless of what you believe. So you'd probably do a whole lot better to just get over it mate. Sincerely, T

 

[10k]

This thread has undergone considerable clean up to remove posts by individuals trolling one another instead of participating in the discussion at hand.
Most of the removed posts were nothing more than member to member trolling and abusive in nature and some were just member replies to same.
Please accept my apologies if yours was one of the deleted, but it was required to maintain civil continuity of this discussion. Please don't ask me why,
complain about it, or even post about the clean up in this thread, as it's NOT part of this threads topic and WILL be removed with possible negative consequences.

tia

ps... very interesting reading

 

[JJScorpio]

And on top of what 10K had to say, I'm not sure but a few people need a little time off of the site. There's more namecalling and verbal abuse in this thread than there is information. If there hasn't been 20 reported posts from this thread there hasn't been one.

The namecallings done. Obviously certain people don't get the hint when a mod has to clean half the thread, so now their going to be told to give 3 day bans. These mods have other things to do then stay on one thread because of the namecalling and rotten comments to people....

 

[Wandering Roman]

great plants man!


but i dont agree with you, you are more a business man than a breeder.

and if plants have nothing to do with ethics?

huh? people sure also dont...

you got nice plants and good smoke maybe too

but your attidtude lacks hard.

Andi ..

TY for the compliments on my plants,,,I made alot of fems years ago when the concept was in it's infancy,,
They were incredible specimens using some real great material with the likes of spg,Arcata TW,NL,Ortega,bubba Kush,

Fet let the big secret out about sts, as the boys were selling exe elite solution on the net ...




I started thinking about an alternative and voila! Colloidal silver was the solution.....that's about as business as I ever got...

I have never made a dime off my research, and released it on Cannabis world with detailed procedures ,,it took off and many people all over the world use it today..CS

Although as you may guess, many struggle as they don't utilize an airstone as I explained ,during the process...nor do many use the low dc voltage around 6-9 max which creates a much smaller silver particle and is absorbed much easier through the epidermal layer.



Fast forward to today and I still love cracking trays of new beans of fems ,,,nothing more rewarding that sorting through so many new and unique gals...variety is king...


I of course have my share of favorite males of each variety so as to maintain strains,,,when I do this and categorize a strain,I always use as many males of that strain that I can and then choose females from that seed stock to further my fem breeding..


But hell yes I use males as well,,,especially when creating a pool or body to safe guard a strain...


fems are a unique application for a specific purpose,,,

Tough concept for some to grasp..


sorry if you feel my attitude is lacking,,,I certainly cannot please everybody nor do I worry about that.


I have never made a cent off of a seed in my life,,,so I guess you'd have a hard time calling me a successful business man.

 

[Wandering Roman]

skunkfunk..

You are noted as having said you have experience with femmed cuts that somehow reach a troubled period as they approach 5 yrs old..


Now having seen this docleaf member say the same thing in another thread I am going to ask the both of you to give details about this theory,and claim.


I will say right off that I am calling BS on this and want to end this truckload of Bull before it makes it's way around the net.


The ignorance I see on websites with regards to feminized breeding is nauseating at best,and the last thing I wanna see is this as a latest fad ...



If Doc is responsible for creating this notion then it's high time to get this out in the open and dispel it here and now!


I've given pictures of my deadwood cut which is strictly a fem pheno and is over 6 years old....

Show me something lacking in her.

Please tell me when her dna will fracture and she will expire???
I've made F1's with her on a few occasions over the years and all phenos have been badass in all regards.

I'm all ears...

 

[darwinsbulldog]

cheers for the info there wandering roman, i'm actually looking into setting up my own CS system, purchasing .999 Silver bullion coins off ebay soon hopefully and well suss out either a 9V battery or power adapter to connect up to it. so you suggest definitely using an air stone while you're generating the CS solution? i'll definitely do that then. would one be sufficient in a few litres of water?

also, some people should discuss in a little more depth if they have the knowledge, the beginnings of the whole Feminization craze? what year(s) did it start and which chemicals were used first and changed to etc? when did it really hit commercial seed production etc and who ran into issues and who eventually was the first to really perfect the technique? etc

darwin

 

[BrianBadonde]

also, some people should discuss in a little more depth if they have the knowledge, the beginnings of the whole Feminization craze? what year(s) did it start and which chemicals were used first and changed to etc? when did it really hit commercial seed production etc and who ran into issues and who eventually was the first to really perfect the technique? etc

darwin

Well Hyb/eXe was in the thread earlier, he's best placed to answer or SamS/Th I'd presume. but don't get going on the Fet/Hyb thing hahaha, some of you need to getitreal .

Take care

Ps hi Mastervi

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Wandering Roman, we had a huge discussion a few weeks ago concerning genetic and epigenetic drift. I'll look for it and post up later..
I think once we understand the effects of changes that take place just outside of the genes (epigenetic if you will) that can effect the growth of the plant, and that genes can mutate for no apparent reason and at random, it is much easier to see how a cut can eventually lose it's character. Some of these epigenetic responses can also be carried on to the progeny of that cut as well.

darwinsbulldog, I think we will find that Mohan Ram did the first and most extensive study into reversal of cannabis using silver ions.

(*I tried to tell a guy that if they purge all the bullshit and nasty from this thread, he wouldn't be in it anymore....viola!)

 

[darwinsbulldog]

Wandering Roman, we had a huge discussion a few weeks ago concerning genetic and epigenetic drift. I'll look for it and post up later..
I think once we understand the effects of changes that take place just outside of the genes (epigenetic if you will) that can effect the growth of the plant, and that genes can mutate for no apparent reason and at random, it is much easier to see how a cut can eventually lose it's character. Some of these epigenetic responses can also be carried on to the progeny of that cut as well.

darwinsbulldog, I think we will find that Mohan Ram did the first and most extensive study into reversal of cannabis using silver ions.

(*I tried to tell a guy that if they purge all the bullshit and nasty from this thread, he wouldn't be in it anymore....viola!)

hey mate, cheers i'll have to look him up.

sorry to be a know it all but mutations don't occur "for no apparent reason" it in this case it'd most likely be due to replication error of DNA or transponsons, if the environment isn't the cause.

i'm reading stuff on epigenetics, it's pretty interesting, i never really thought about its applicability to cannabis, cheers

darwin

 

[englishrick]

hay darwinsbulldog

basicly,,,this it way the fem thing hit me,,;

unknown to me in 2000/2001 there were 2 camps wooking in parralell,,,,,the uni-grad botany master camp,,,,,and the smokers camp in Amsterdam

in 2000/2001 Soma was makin Roderized seeds in the Amsterdam camp,,,,apparently "according to some people" Soma got told by some guy called Rod how to make them,,,,,,its basicly a stress induced revercal,,,,,apparently Soma anoticed that when plants were left to over-mature they sometimes threw-out polen,,,,,,so Soma was buzzin from fem seeds in the canna comunity in Amsterdam first,,,,but everyone didnt like the Roderized seeds!!,,,,,something was weird!!,,,everyone knew it!!,,,,,sam didnt like them,,,even Soma wasnt 100% confident to sell them!!,,some were hermi prone ,,,basicly they didnt get a good rep,,,so Soma whent back to the drawing board, but Soma felt the magic,,,that was the first taste of fem seeds Amsterdam had!!,,,,,all credit to Soma for being open-minded...Soma is Amazing!,,,

so fems allready had a bad rep....

i thought fems were bad untill 2007,,,,i didnt see any real paperwork till 07,,,,but lets forget that for a second,,

a few years ticked by and nothing happend,,,,,,,,then 1 year "out of the blue",,,i think it was 2003/04,,,an someone came out with an old paper,,,i think it was the Mohan Ram paper "lets not get into who wone the race,,,anyone could have been working on it for ages",,,,,but the point is;,,,the botany masters camp came-out with the paper,,,,BOOM!,,,,everything changed,,,,everyone started lookin into fem`s ,,,, DutchPashion were the first seedcompany to sell fem seeds,,,,but unfortunatly DutchPassion made the same mistake as Soma [they used a plant witch didnot give rise to hardy progeny],,,they sold monotonous seeds and didnt even relize it,,,,firther giveing fem seeds a bad name

then in 05/06,,,,,something happen!!!!,,,,,,,GREENHOUSE!!,,,,,,,they musta pulled up there socks or someething because they just fukin took-over,,,,the demand for fem seeds just seemed to outweigh the fear in 04/05/06,,,,there reprutation was just getting better and better,,,,an they were getting cheaper and cheaper,,,,i was working in a seedshop an i was tell peeps to buy regular,,,,but i couldnt stop people buying greenhouse feminzed seeds,,,,,,i was afraid of fems,,,,i used to say "you cant keep mother",,,,"they herm",,,,,no1 had a bad thing to say about them!!,,,,,,,,

but ,,,,,in 07,,,i got ahold of a clone that came from a feminized seed,,,,,an this clone that was prized as 1 of the best plants in the world!!!,,,,,,so i started talkin about fems here on icmag,,,,sayin "something is cool about this fem thing",,,,i was sayin,,,,"im feelin some sorta positive aplication",,,,,,,,,

an then i met tom

then it all changed

 

[darwinsbulldog]

wow cheers for that englishrick

 

[gettitreal]

..so you know the rest of the story...

..so you know the rest of the story...

The feminization "craze" began after I introduced eliteXelite Hybridization Tool in 1999.

This is how it happened. It was about 1997... I was reading about cucumber breeding and ran into something about acquiring pollen for gynoecious cuke breeding. The breeders had applied ethylene inhibitors to apical meristems of cuke plants. After more study about plant physiology/hormones/antagonists, I performed experiments on genetically varied 'elite' Cannabis clones with STS, Cobalt nitrate, cobalt(II) chloride, AgNO3, GA3, and made the discovery that ALL of them worked to different degrees and with varied issues, which was quite exciting to say the least.
I subsequently developed a very effective RTU solution with my arsenal of ethylene inhibitors, called it eliteXelite Hybridization Tool, and distributed eXe through HS.com, which at that moment BEGAN The Era of Commercial (and amateur) Cannabis Feminization, which is in its 11th year now.

I never knew of Ram/Setts article from 1983. I didnt use Ram/Sett.

After the release of eXe, another smart-guy Vic High uncovered the now well-known article, in order to 'out' the groundbreaking feminizing tool. Although the ethylene inhibition secret was dug up from the past, the actual mix of retail eXe Hybridization Tool was never disclosed.
SamSkunkman, another pot smart-guy, was drawn out of hiding to claim he has known all about the method and used it extensively on drug cannabis in the past, but curiously had never once posted about it, never produced a single feminized seedline, or even a photo of his experiments/breeding via this valuable technique.

Colloidal silver(CS) was a later incarnation. Online users piggybacked the application protocol I developed for eXe. This difficult-to-make (but weak) alternative appealed to newbies and hobbyists who could not acquire research chemicals without outing themselves as pot growers.

The topic inspired heated debate , -and still tops the subject matter of Cannabis Breeding forums a decade after-, because it is arguably the biggest discovery in drug cannabis improvement history, next to the Inheritance of Chemical Phenotype article.(de Meijer,et.al.,2003),(imo, likely where Sam heard of the technique) as well as the fact that anyone with NO experience can provide their opinion on the subject.

Unfortunately, the tool is only as good as the breeding program. Also, it has a VERY high potential for mis-use and abuse when you can be paid to make seeds with no accountability for the seedline performance. Thus, not only has it spawned a lot of misinformation about cannabis sex and sexual expression by the cannabis community and its 'breeders', it still has not reached most of the goals I alluded to online and in the original product literature.

gettitreal

 

[englishrick]

bloody hek,,,,i jsut posted this in my de Meijer`s biography thread...







at some point Etienne de Meijer laid claim outside of the canna comunity to this tech,,,,but im willing to give ExE the benifit of the doubt

it was easy for me to find work on inhibiting maleness,,,,,ive read alot about cucumbers too

once a CannaKid starts skimming through them high level breeding papers all the key word just jump off the page,,,,it was easy to figure out after reading up on cucumbers,,,,even for a kid

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/ca...s-1200871.html

 

[Honkytonk]

I never knew of Ram/Setts article from 1983. I didnt use Ram/Sett.

Dude, that sucks.. you had to go through re-discovering what Russian researchers already did in the 60s, Indian researchers wrote about in the early 70s and multiple papers were published on the topic in the early 80s. I'd not be surprised if SamS knew about this for quite some time, most of the people interested in the issue did.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

sorry to be a know it all but mutations don't occur "for no apparent reason" it in this case it'd most likely be due to replication error of DNA or transponsons, if the environment isn't the cause.

No disrespect, but mutations can happen both at random and spontaneously. This is a fact. No references, but it has been stated in numerous papers I have read.
These spontaneous and random mutations can be responsible for genetic drift. These mutation, virus', and the effects that stresses like the environment can trigger causing epigenetic responses, makes the practice of keep a seedline much wiser and safer than trying to keep a cut. Cuts can live and stay consistent for years and years, but they can also drift out.

 

[darwinsbulldog]

No disrespect, but mutations can happen both at random and spontaneously. This is a fact. No references, but it has been stated in numerous papers I have read.
These spontaneous and random mutations can be responsible for genetic drift. These mutation, virus', and the effects that stresses like the environment can trigger causing epigenetic responses, makes the practice of keep a seedline much wiser and safer than trying to keep a cut. Cuts can live and stay consistent for years and years, but they can also drift out.

i thought you were suggesting that mutations have no explanation, when you said they happen randomly. so the point i was trying to make is that random doesn't exist in the sense you used it. the mutations don't happen randomly, they may be random mutations in that there's a random chance whether the nucleotide will switch to T, G, C or A, but there will always be a reason for it mutating, cause and affect (newton's third law). you can't have something happen without it being a reaction to something else. by saying a mutation just "randomly" occurs, is suggesting there's no explanation for it, when there will always be one whether it's dna replication issues, radiation, virus, transponsons etc.

anyway i'm just nit picking, i get what you mean hoosierdaddy and agree.

i think a good example of what you're talking about is the forced inducing of polyploidy in cannabis by colchicine. it forces cells to mutate, during cell division chromosomes double but the fibers/tubules used to pull the cells away from one another no longer work so polyploidy occurs. this be a permanent result (as is often the want of the breeder/grower) and is sometimes passed on to following generations, though not always. i think they're still unsure about what controls whether or not the mutation is passed on. there's probably some self correction that occurs in the formation of gametes some of the time which then corrects it resulting in normal offspring. anyway