World's Farmers Feel The Effects Of A Hotter Planet

[CLOWD11]

C02 isnt the boogyman end of story.

Another expert!
Guess what SS..the whole scientific community says your wrong and have the data to prove it.

Whilst we are fixing a leak in our bathtub the whole house is on fire.

Wow that sounds dramatic!

Right now the Australian govt. are trying to ram a carbon tax down our throats without releasing any details. Whilst living costs are at an all time high and rising fast.

About time we had a carbon tax, Howard went to the 07 elections promising an ETS. You will get your details when they are decided and not before. The framework setup to consider the policy hasnt been concluded, though we are expecting details in July.

Whats our PM saying about all the fracking going on all over our great country. Destroying entire regions and water tables with a secret blend of toxic chemicals forced into the earth to crack the coal seams. Diddly squat fuck all but shes o so concerned with carbon.

CSG is a state issue so take it up with your state government.

The Australian public see through her lies. 2/3 are against the tax.

No, the aussie public suckup bullshit from fuckheads like abbott, who intern sucks up fucking rubbish from fuckheads like the lying arshole lord of nothing monckton.

Disgusting behaviour but people dont focus on these real environmental tragedies. Too worried caught up in some bullshit about carbon footprints.

Thats your opinion, some know which is the biggest threat. Obviously its not the deniers.

 

[mad librettist]

The “climate crusade” is one characterized by true believers, opportunists, cynics, money-hungry governments, manipulators of various types—even children’s crusades—all based on contested science and dubious claims.

Its the opinion of a physics professor who i would have thought quite scientifically minded.

Wow, you can really square those two? Look, when a physics professor engages in political speech, he has a choice: talk science or talk trash. Your professor chose to talk trash, and morals. For someone "scientifically minded" he sure isn't shy about pouring on the emotional appeal and manipulation.

He is more than happy to question motives. But where is even a shred of evidence for calling anyone "true believer, opportunists, cynics, money-hungry governments, etc...". Someone writing from a scientific perspective would use the language of science and would stick to facts and observation, not overt appeals to the lowest common denominator and manipulative use of ego-fluffing (yours).

you really eat this shit up silver surfer? it doesn't square with the silver surfer I know.




What really blows me away is your notion that if we tackle CO2 it means we don't care about other pollutants. Talk about a false dilemma.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Arctic Ice Melting Faster Than Previously Thought: Report
By KARL RITTER 05/ 3/11 10:59 AM ET

STOCKHOLM -- A new assessment of climate change in the Arctic shows the region's ice and snow are melting faster than previously thought and sharply raises projections of global sea level rise this century.

The report by the international Arctic Monitoring and Assessment Program, or AMAP, is one of the most comprehensive updates on climate change in the Arctic, and builds on a similar assessment in 2005.

The full report will be delivered to foreign ministers of the eight Arctic nations next week, but an executive summary including the key findings was obtained by The Associated Press on Tuesday.

It says that Arctic temperatures in the past six years were the highest since measurements began in 1880, and that feedback mechanisms believed to accelerate warming in the climate system have now started kicking in.

It also shatters some of the forecasts made in 2007 by the U.N.'s expert panel on climate change.

The cover of sea ice on the Arctic Ocean, for example, is shrinking faster than projected by the U.N. panel. The level of summer ice coverage has been at or near record lows every year since 2001, AMAP said, predicting that the Arctic Ocean will be nearly ice free in summer within 30-40 years.

AMAP also said the U.N. panel was too conservative in estimating how much sea levels will rise – one of the most closely watched aspects of global warming because of the potentially catastrophic impact on coastal cities and island nations.

The melting of Arctic glaciers and ice caps, including Greenland's massive ice sheet, are projected to help raise global sea levels by 35 to 63 inches (90-160 centimeters) by 2100, AMAP said, though it noted that the estimate was highly uncertain.

That's up from a 2007 projection of 7 to 23 inches (19-59 centimeters) by the U.N. panel, which didn't consider the dynamics of ice caps in the Arctic and Antarctica.

"The observed changes in sea ice on the Arctic Ocean, in the mass of the Greenland ice sheet and Arctic ice caps and glaciers over the past 10 years are dramatic and represent an obvious departure from the long-term patterns," AMAP said in the executive summary.

The organization's main function is to advise the nations surrounding the Arctic – the U.S., Canada, Russia, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Iceland and Finland – on threats to the Arctic environment.

The findings of its report – Snow, Water, Ice and Permafrost in the Arctic – will be discussed by some of the scientists who helped compile it at a conference starting Wednesday in the Danish capital, Copenhagen.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/03/arctic-melting-sea-levels-climate-change_n_856924.html

 

[grapeman]

grapeman, credits are market trades. We've had industry cap-and-trade for decades. Trading credits is a capitalism baby, not governmental. Like other markets, regulation applies but that doesn't mean the gov is making and losing the money. You've got your government and free market process mixed up or you fell for the corporate spill.

The Koch Bros trade carbon caps in Europe while simultaneously lobbying against same in the US. (Because they make more money w/o caps.) Money aside, practically everything they do is environmentally unsound. As a resident consumer, that's against your best interests, especially when their daily operations threaten your water and air quality.

I know, I know.... your water and air are just fine.

Disco - I have a personal friend who owns several cotton gins & plants. A decade ago, he started picking up cooking oil from fast food joints and the like, processing the oil and then re-selling as an fuel additive. He now receives checks regularly from oil companies for carbon credits. He is making a fortune ( a large one at that) from selling carbon credits. Even as he admits it a fraud. He gets checks from oil companies that have never done business with his company, just to satisfy folks like you.

Of course this cost is passed down to all of us in the form of higher gas prices. The perfect scam sponsored by our government. AlGore and his ilk operate at a higher level in this carbon trading scam, making billions not millions at the common man's expense.

We all pay for this bullshit.

 

[grapeman]

bullshit silver surfer.

This is pure bullshit opinion, which chooses to obfuscate by ignoring proportions. 270:150 is not far from 2:1.

How fast is 270mph compared to 150mph? Come on, this is not saying anything at all.

The rest of the article you posted is rife with oversimplifications and circular logic, with a dash of wink, wink, nudge nudge. The deepest point it makes is that if you believe the science you have a character flaw. You are weak because you believe the same thing as the majority. It exploits the desire of juvenile humans to show just how unique they are, and a cut above their peers. Its design is intended to bolster the ego of the denialist by making him feel like part of the enlightened few.



I see no documentation for this dubious and contested claim.

If you are going to cry "bullshit", at least set forth some logical counter argument. You are slowly but surely showing yourself to be ignorant via your nonsensical nonfactual responses.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Thanks for the info, grapeman. I don't doubt your friend receives money but I believe the companies (he doesn't do business with) are involved in indirect trades, not direct commerce.

Wow, your friend is playing the game and doesn't even understand how it works.

With all due respect, there's enough info on the web to educate oneself about cap and trade. How it works, what happens... what doesn't happen.

 

[mad librettist]

If you are going to cry "bullshit", at least set forth some logical counter argument. You are slowly but surely showing yourself to be ignorant via your nonsensical nonfactual responses.

a better strategy is just to point out the flaws and the crude manipulation going on. which is what I did.

Before that, I reposted from NASA's site a whole shitload of facts, observations, and explanations, none of which you have even attempted to refute. It's almost like you follow your own version of reality, which is only loosely related to the one we are supposed to share in common.

Look, I know you think they faked the moon landing, but it's time to move on. Now you can argue they are faking global warming. I have posted several positive claims. Let's see your refutation or you can keep your reputation.

 

[CLOWD11]

If you are going to cry "bullshit", at least set forth some logical counter argument. You are slowly but surely showing yourself to be ignorant via your nonsensical nonfactual responses.

OMFG Are you serious?
Nothing worse than a hypocritical troll.

Arctic Ice Melting Faster Than Previously Thought: Report

Nice post.
Last week the IPCC released data showing sea level rise is tracking above previously estimated upper levels.
But of course grapeman doesnt see this issue from his paddock of mouldy grapes, therefore its not true.

 

[grapeman]

Last week the IPCC released data showing sea level rise is tracking above previously estimated upper levels.
But of course grapeman doesnt see this issue from his paddock of mouldy grapes, therefore its not true.

IPCC. LOL. We've already dealt with that. You don't want to believe that they skewed the data, even while their own emails prove they did. Hopeless.

Thank god the other 65% of the country see it for the fraud it is. You do know you are in the minority don't you?

 

[CLOWD11]

IPCC. LOL. We've already dealt with that. You don't want to believe they've they skewed the data, even while their own emails prove they did. Hopeless.

Yes we have dealt with that.
The IPCC was found at no fault whatsoever by numerous investigations, yet you dismiss that outright. Your just a braindead troll clutching at straws that dont exist to further your own pathetic agenda.

Thank god the other 65% of the country see it for the fraud it is. You do know you are in the minority don't you?

I will gladly be in a minority if the cause is true, unlike cockheads who just want to be on the "winning" team and dismiss all facts to get there.
Fools like you are gambling with our childrens future despite all the warnings and evidence presented. What a fkn joke you are.

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

The UN is completely corrupt and just a vehicle for a one world government.

There are so many factors that alter climate so i agree with the prof that concentrating on C02 is useless. Unless you wish to make trillions in carbon taxes and carbon trading.

I think its a scam.

I love science and organic farming/gardening.

Really cant be bothered arguing this stuff again and again.

Peace and love XXX

 

[mad librettist]

World's Farmers Feel The Effects Of A Hotter Planet

The UN is completely corrupt and just a vehicle for a one world government.

There are so many factors that alter climate so i agree with the prof that concentrating on C02 is useless. Unless you wish to make trillions in carbon taxes and carbon trading.

I think its a scam.

I love science and organic farming/gardening.

Really cant be bothered arguing this stuff again and again.

Peace and love XXX

seems to me " I can't be bothered" describes the problem perfectly.


ok this is the second reminder to grapeman and silver surfer and other deniers: go refute the positive claims I made in the reposts from NASA.

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

Which claims exactly? You copy and pasted a few. Some were very interesting and i could agree on many things. But C02 being the driver on climate i find a long stretch.

NASA are now giving our star a bit more credit.

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2009/21jan_severespaceweather/

We are just now discovering more and more about space weather and this is throwing more variables. To claim we know everything about how our climate works is wrong.

http://collegerama.tudelft.nl/media....aspx?peid=c29550a872814c2a9e7ba28ac0c7d1e61d

Why are we seeing climate changes on other planets in our solar system?

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/odyssey/newsroom/pressreleases/20031208a.html

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/newsroom/20050920a.html

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v428/n6985/abs/nature02470.html

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2002/pluto.html

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200607/s1697309.htm

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=12353


We have volcanoes and earthquakes increasing in size and numbers. There is a building case solar magnetic cycles and events have an impact on our tectonic plates.

We have so much to learn and are wasting so much time on this.

How about we look at another scientific folly - water fluoridation

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread707434/pg1

 

[CLOWD11]

Id hate to be so dumb to fall for the flouride tinfoil hat brigade. Oxygen is poisonous you twit. Why dont you stop using it as well?

Typical response also to "climate change" on other planets ffs.

A research team from the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research (PIK) in Germany has found that decreased solar activity until the end of this century would only slightly scale down the global temperature rise caused by greenhouse gas emissions. The results of the study are published in the journal Geophysical Research Letters.
The researchers found that the projected fall in solar activity until the end of the present century would bring down the Earth’s temperature by only 0.3 °C. This figure is less than 10% of the projected temperature rise under the business-as-usual scenario posited by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

http://www.alternativeenergynewswir...-solar-activity-would-not-slow-global-warming

There goes your sun theory.

What other BS can you use to evade the truth?

 

[mad librettist]

Which claims exactly? You copy and pasted a few. Some were very interesting and i could agree on many things

which ones? why were they interesting? Which things did you not agree with, specifically?

I guess we need to give grapeman more time to read them over.

maybe he is running them all through google?

or conducting his own experiments? (he researches, you know)

 

[mad librettist]

NASA are now giving our star a bit more credit.

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news...espaceweather/

We are just now discovering more and more about space weather and this is throwing more variables. To claim we know everything about how our climate works is wrong.

please stop. I am losing respect.

It is not to me, nor is it news I am sure to clowd11 that solar storms fuck with the electrical grid and with gadgets.

Surfer, you are baffling me completely. I have always given you more credit than this.

where oh where do you make the jump from crediting work on solar storms to supporting the boneheaded theory that they give us an excuse to ignore the CO2/methane/other greenhouse gasses released by man problem?


this is how you make me feel:

 

[grapeman]

http://www.alternativeenergynewswir...-solar-activity-would-not-slow-global-warming

There goes your sun theory.

What other BS can you use to evade the truth?

Wow - a news flash from the "alternative energy news wire". LOL.

Only a country bumpkin would put up such nonsense as proof of their mis-belief.

Here's a news flash for ya. The Sun drives ALL weather in our solar system. It doesn't really matter what algore says. To think and say otherwise would be to demonstrate to all your lack of education.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Wow - a news flash from the "alternative energy news wire". LOL.

Only a country bumpkin would put up such nonsense as proof of their mis-belief.

If "aenw" dissected the accredited information into something unrecognizable like your ad sales dude, you'd be kosher.

The publication isn't making their own unsubstantiated claims. They're citing climate science. Might as well be making fun of Elmer Fudd.

Here's a news flash for ya. The Sun drives ALL weather in our solar system. It doesn't really matter what algore says. To think and say otherwise would be to demonstrate to all your lack of education.

Same shit, same post. You and everybody else knows the difference between a scientist and an advocate.

Waving the Al Gore flag is even sillier than Pee Wee Herman's, "I know you are but what am I?"

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

IMO deniers look pretty funny, not unlike arguing long division with a pocket calculator.

Some deniers would say to doubt the answers because Chinese calculator manufacturers have wanted world control since the Ming Dynasty.

Others would dis the answers to any equation, never mind the fact they can't produce the math to make a sound rebuttal, lol.

Still others dance in a circle declaring their rapacious thirst while onlookers throw water in buckets. Except these dancers fervently dodge every drop of water (while simultaneously shouting) "WINNING!"

Even the dumbest card player with the luck to lose knows the law of averages ain't a myth. With a bit of foresight, the cards already seen indicate what cards are yet to be dealt.

Pretending it's all up to the deck to decide which card to deal ain't how it works. Pretending the dealer isn't ethical has been soundly rebuked 5 times, with ZERO rebuttals from grapeman or anybody else.

Deniers ought to be schooled to understand what the law of averages is all about before allowing them to poly-econ the debate into unconsciousness.

Too bad that feigning unconsciousness is every bit as viable an argument as facing the facts, at least for deniers.

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

Clowd11:

You are always so rude. I am here to have a civil debate. Throwing insults around doesnt impress anyone.

Your link proves that the Maunder minumum lasting 70 years was directly attributed to the power (or lack there of) of our star.

Cosmic rays havent been studied enough with regards to weather/climate.

As for fluoride it is proven beyond reasonable doubt that it is very harmful if ingested. Especially as the stuff put in the water supply is literally toxic waste. A by-product of aluminium smelting or phospate mining.

Is oxygen used as the main ingredient in rat poison?

Fluoride contains uranium as a by product of phosphate mining.

We get all the natural fluroide we need from a healthy and balanced diet.

MadL:

The NASA link was aimed in the direction of space weather. Under-estimate the sun at our peril. The meat of my post was however the climate change NASA agrees is happening across our solar system.

Why is is happening to all the planets at the same time?

Like i said i agree on methane and other man made tragedies. I have a specific beef with carbon being the driver of climate.

I liked your link that showed more c02 = more green stuff