Will there ever be a pure line of Zamal???

[RandyCalifornia]

Zamal x Neville haze
Zamal x Angolese
Zamal x Nepalese highland
Zamal x Bangi Haze
Zamal x Panama

That would be a fun variety pack to go through Dubi!
Madjag, can't wait to see your results.

 

[jayjayfrank]

from what i have seen zamal x haze is the ticket

 

[RandyCalifornia]

I would love to grow the original Zamal Thai cross. Or actually the Zamal cut used to make the Zamal Thai.
I'm not smelling any carrot in the Zamal Haze crosses I'm growing and smoking right now so far. The plants seem to be favoring the Haze more in their flavor and high. But I have only begun to smoke them, with a cure and after harvesting the long flowering ones that could change.
I'd still like to contrast these with what a real Zamal sativa would be like.

 

[bigmotaman48]

I agree ! The big talk at this years Emerald Cup was about CBd but I used to really dig the Malawi bud out here in the 80 s it was really happy weed rumored to have thcv this is just the opposite of the zamal high that is being talked about . Also the judges this year talked about weed samples they smoked that were cut through highs , they were sampling up to 30 strains per day ,and a sample strain had to really rock them to get their attention.I also heard a lot of breeder talk about phenotype choices from one genotype, this is why I,m buying Zamaldelica to find something interesting maybe powerful like Zamal but with more of a happy/party edge like Malawi and yes eating too much is really the only way I can go to extreme highs anymore being medical and living in California many of us smoke tons , like Rastas , you can never out smoke a rasta.

 

[bioguy]

I've got a couple questions about the Zamal cuts/seeds going around?

Do the ACE Zamal and the Mandala Mango Zamal share any parents?

Is the Mandala Mango Zamal an F1 and if so has anyone taken it to the F2?

I would like upseed the Mango Zamal to look for plants that can survive multiple years in the tropics. 've read a lot of the Zamal threads and it does not look like many people are looking for this trait.

 

[Mustafunk]

I've got a couple questions about the Zamal cuts/seeds going around?

Do the ACE Zamal and the Mandala Mango Zamal share any parents?

All those strains share the same genetics. Around 2000, Gypsy Nirvana brought some seeds from the Reunion Island, from a local creole grower/breeder called Cristophe. He shared the strain with other breeders (Gerrit, Magus Genetics) and put them on sale as well through GN Collection; just like he did in the past with the Thai Stick, Laos Luang Prabang or Khmer Gold strains too.

Dubi, Female Seeds and also Mandala Seeds got the same Reunionese genetics (Cristophe>Gypsy/GN collection>Gerrit) and they used it their hybrids, most probably even the same clones were used on them (Zamal X Warlock, Zamal X Neville's and so on). Zamal A (the best female from Gerrit's selection) is probably lost nowadays due to its strange autoflowering traits, tough to keep as a mum I guess.

Quote from him on this and his Zamal x Warlock hybrid, sold through Female Seed's X-Line many years ago:

I've grown approx 30 Zamal that Gypsy gave me approx 5 years ago.
The initial germination rate wasn't very high but raised above 90% after I "cracked" the shell's.
Sadly, I only got 2 males that reverted in to females before I could collect any pollen so I could not preserve the Zamal in it's pure form.
The most common phenotype was a lanky/branchy Sativa with loose buds that had a soft carrot aroma and little to zero trichome production on the leaves but abundant on the flowers.
The flowering times did vary a lot but I suspect that much of the variation occurred because of a difference in the "age trigger", so its probably more a difference in the "on-set" of flowering than a difference in the duration of flowering.
There where 2 exceptions to the rule namely:

A) Standard growing pattern but with the carrot aroma intensified in a way that it became more of a peppery smell (I hope this makes sense).

B) A more upright growing pattern with slightly more firm long "foxtail" cola's, but with the same carrot aroma as the others.
This one also had the longest flowering period (17 weeks).

The high that they produce is a bit to much Sativa for my liking, same goes for the crosses made with it. (I'm having enough trouble to keep focus as is)

Both types above where used in a test cross with the Warlock and given out as free-packs (most of them in Spain).

Although I was quite happy with the performance of the A-line I decided not to offer/market it for commercial reasons.

The B-line did not "improve" much compared to it's Zamal mother aside the fact that the males found among them where stable (did not change in to female).

The growing pattern that hieagle420 describes (branches sagging down and then growing upwards again) sounds like the A-line and is coming from the Zamal mother.
Maybe some people remember, I was kidding around presenting it as "Cannabis Asparagus" at the HTCC '02 or '03.

Kind regards,
Gerrit

Another nice one: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=39080

As for the plants surviving multiple years, I guess it doesn't have anything to do with any special qualities but only with the day-length conditions from the tropical regions they come from. Due to the minimum photopheriod variation along the dry and wet season, the plants probably are probably spending half of the year flowering at 11h and when the day lenght increases a little bit into 12h, they start to re-veg. Same happens if you put an extreme tropical strain outdoors in a temperate region and before it will even finish flowering, the days will increase forcing the plant to veg again. Unless the cold temperatures kill the plant, it can survive several seasons.

Vibes.

 

[bioguy]

Due to the minimum photopheriod variation along the dry and wet season, the plants probably are probably spending half of the year flowering at 11h and when the day lenght increases a little bit into 12h, they start to re-veg a little bit. Same happens if you put an extreme tropical strain outdoors in a temperate region and before it will even finish flowering, the days will increase forcing the plant to veg again. Unless the cold temperatures kill the plant, it can survive several seasons.

Vibes.

Thanks for the heritage info. I just got into the forum world and I am pretty impressed by how many knowledgeable people are around. I did not expect anyone to know these details.

As for photoperiod, how common are multi year plants in other tropical Sativas lines. My understanding is that this is pretty rare. I have heard of it in Himalayan Sativas and I think Flo got these traits from the Thai.

I am interested because I am moving to the American tropics. I want to take some unique seeds. I have friends that are really excited about these traits (they live in BFE and could keep these alive forever). I have the Mango Zamal but I am tempted to open pollinate the pack. My thoughts are the F2 would have more Zamal pheno's than the F1. But its the multi year pheno I am looking for so....if its not needed I wont. Also these plants will be pollinated by the local Sativas. If this trait is common in Sativas, then maybe that pollination will get us what we want.

Random: The plants in Central America are almost all grown from bag seed found in Colombian product. This makes it really hard to find diversity. Even crossing these plants to local plants rarely adds vigor because the local plants came from Colombia too. I like the idea of Mango Zamal because it has both African and Indian genetics. I suspect the Colombians were smart enough to source some Thai by now, so I think the Indian/African genes seem like a good choice to help diversify the potential of their stock.

So far I have
Mango Zamal
Orisha
DTC99 x Grape Kush
DTC99 x Bruce Banner.
(my 4 strains) x 3 unrelated males
(my 4 strains) x Holy Smokes misc
(my 4 strains) x Blue Satellite 2 (on the way)

I will be buying more seeds (SSH and Neville's Haze and maybe something from Ace) but only have time for one more project. I want to either upseed the Zamal, cross it to my stock or buy another Sativa to cross to my stock. OH and I will also be crossing the 2 DTC99 strains because I only got a few seeds.

I don't know where this will take us but I think the Zamal sounds like the coolest plant ever.

 

[jayjayfrank]

on gerrit's observations

in my zamaldelica x haze out cross two very interesting phenos showed that i have simply not seen in pictures or mentioned other than what the big boys talk about with sativas on the internet -

1) The All Foxtail Pheno: all calyxes are exposed, no 'bud' formation, just simple long branches with bare calyxes and no main branch. 7 to 8 side branches will fight but none win, the plant is a bush, you are not able to tell which stem is the 'main trunk'

2) Crippy Pheno - Creeper jungle vine branch structure. this pheno makes no effort to support itself, it will lean on anything. the branches grow up, fall over, then more branches grow up etc etc until you have a floppy mess of flowers that always bend and never break, can tie nots in her.

this was so so surprising to me because in the same seed lot i had made there are two exactly opposite phenos. the classic 'hybrid bud' pheno put out massive calyxes twice as big as the others 'nugged up' acceptably for something with so much sativa genetics. and the 'stand tall pheno' at 5 weeks she was still pistils only, was taller than the rest, had atleast 8" stem node sections and acted like a giant red wood, no bending no branching, just straight up, i suspect she would have taken upwards of 20weeks to finish properly.



on tropical sativas

i have read that in certain 'sweet spots' it actually takes 2 years for the local land race sativas to finish flowering.

its important to understand some of these strains take 26 weeks to finish, thats half a year, thats 6 months IF IT STARTS ON TIME. what happens if the seeds do not start on time?

than they flower late? and what happens if they dont finish before the season is over? then they start re-vegging. and how long will it be again before they get to flower? another 6 months.

so already the plant is a year old and now it finally gets to flower out 'for reals'. cannabis is an annual so it probably does not live long after this second flower but the plant itself could have been said to be around for two years. so it can get kind of confusing when a local farmer might tell a reasearcher 'these seeds grow for two years'... you simply have to be in the right enviroment for that to happen.

i have also read that its not until the second year that the THC numbers get to where they should be.

 

[bioguy]

i have read that in certain 'sweet spots' it actually takes 2 years for the local land race sativas to finish flowering.

i have also read that its not until the second year that the THC numbers get to where they should be.

Thanks again for all the help I'm currently going through a mass information cramming period of my life. Everyone has been really helpful.

On THC, I wonder if anyone has tested successive batches of Flo to see if a variation occurred.

PS...Your DJ Short quote about 7%...I just asked about that phenomena in another thread...thanks for answering that one too.

 

[dubi]

As for the plants surviving multiple years, I guess it doesn't have anything to do with any special qualities but only with the day-length conditions from the tropical regions they come from. Due to the minimum photopheriod variation along the dry and wet season, the plants probably are probably spending half of the year flowering at 11h and when the day lenght increases a little bit into 12h, they start to re-veg. Same happens if you put an extreme tropical strain outdoors in a temperate region and before it will even finish flowering, the days will increase forcing the plant to veg again. Unless the cold temperatures kill the plant, it can survive several seasons.

on tropical sativas

i have read that in certain 'sweet spots' it actually takes 2 years for the local land race sativas to finish flowering.

its important to understand some of these strains take 26 weeks to finish, thats half a year, thats 6 months IF IT STARTS ON TIME. what happens if the seeds do not start on time?

than they flower late? and what happens if they dont finish before the season is over? then they start re-vegging. and how long will it be again before they get to flower? another 6 months.

so already the plant is a year old and now it finally gets to flower out 'for reals'. cannabis is an annual so it probably does not live long after this second flower but the plant itself could have been said to be around for two years. so it can get kind of confusing when a local farmer might tell a reasearcher 'these seeds grow for two years'... you simply have to be in the right enviroment for that to happen.

Thanks Mustafunk and jayjayfrank for share your interesting insights about long flowering sativas that go through 2 seasons. Your explanations are very accurate about the case.