Will 2014 be the last ICmag Cup in Amsterdam?

[Sativied]

amsterdam is shit, has been for years - the weather aint much better than UK if at all, the food is shit, the herb is wank and overpriced, most of what is on sale is not what it purports to be.

Yeah right.... have you ever been to Amsterdam? Sure doesn't sound like it. Sounds more like envy. I frequently talk to Brits in Amsterdam and never met one that didn't love it.

Though a tad better than in the UK, the weather does suck roughly 46 weeks of the year. And with so many coffeeshops there is obviously also a lot of trash. This has a lot to do with growing being illegal, just as you can buy trash on the street. The opposite is also true though, with so many coffeeshops and such a large variety (many small suppliers) there is a lot of quality. Just need to know where to go and what to buy. Same goes for food, from so many different cultures and restaurants it's silly to tar them all with the same brush.

It's been 23 years since I first went to Amsterdam, go about 6-8 times a year now, visited most of the coffeeshops (in and around the center anyway). Things got worse when coffeeshops started targeting more and more on tourists than locals... Amsterdam is nowadays a themepark for stoner tourists, and in theme parks everything is overpriced.

You can buy and smoke herb there - thats it

Ah but that's a pretty big 'it'.

Still hands down the best place for the ICmag cup.

Unless of course, back to the OP and OT, the 15%THC is actually going to be implemented 'and' enforced. Currently again being debated in politics. One of the leading parties still insists on moving forward with the limit, the other leading party is stalling with the help of a few others. At the start of the current term they agreed on limiting the THC%, but the PVDA (second leading party, labor party) does not agree with the 15% as no research shows that for example 16% is worse.

Unfortunately there is a small majority for the 15%limit (leading party + several religious/conservatives) and it's still in the planning. The debate is currently amongst others about how (the hell) coffeeshops are supposed to control the THC contents. The logs of the debates show so clearly nobody even knows what they are talking about. One of the arguments of those who oppose the THC limit is that the CBD contents should be taken into account as "it counters the negative effects of THC". Those who want the limit claim there's a relation between the increase of THC over the past decade and the number of 'addicts'...

I was going to suggest Barcelona as an alternative location, but the national government is working on changing the laws so they can stop the social cannabis clubs.

 

[gaiusmarius]

shit i had read something about them wanting to make national laws to stop the social clubs, but didnt realize they were already working on it. will have to do a quick visit this summer before it changes.

for all the disadvantages people point out about Amsterdam, there is one big major advantage. there is no other city in europe where you can sit around in a coffee shop eating drinking and smoking to your hearts content, even outside some shops. the relaxed feeling you have while smoking in a coffee shop can not be compared to anything else really. you can sit there knowing nothing what so ever can happen. anyone thats never experienced getting high in a place of 100% safety can not really get me. there is something unique about it. of course now it's getting to be like that in some places in the US too. but for Europe there is nothing like it. even if the 15% rule gets introduced, it will apply to the coffee shop weed, cup entries wouldn't be limited to 15% anyway.

 

[Sativied]

the relaxed feeling you have while smoking in a coffee shop can not be compared to anything else really. you can sit there knowing nothing what so ever can happen. anyone thats never experienced getting high in a place of 100% safety can not really get me.

Sure summed that up nicely. And that is partly exactly why coffeeshops were tolerated in the first place, a 'safe place' for soft-drugs users to enjoy their cannabis. Safe from cops and hard drug pushers. Other part was taking away the business away from dealers on the street.

even if the 15% rule gets introduced, it will apply to the coffee shop weed, cup entries wouldn't be limited to 15% anyway.

Unfortunately, the 15% rule is not just a limit on mj sold in coffeeshops, it's to put 15%+ THC mj back on the opium list, 'schedule I drug' as they call it in the US. The leading parties want this to comply with international (UN) agreements (NL doesn't want to be 'the' narco state at UNGASS for example). One of the advantages they see in a limit is the ability to treat anything above it as hard drugs and the people involved as criminals, and involve even more cops in the war against drugs. Theoretically if you were to get caught with a bag of mj (only 5 gram per person per shop can be sold) it would get tested and if it's higher than 15%... In practice it seems impossible to enforce and that's one of the reasons other oppose the limit.

My point is, that that 15% limit would take away from the safe relaxed feeling. For the law an ICmag cup that includes 15%+ thc strains (most?) could be treated the same as a coke cup. Not likely, especially not in Amsterdam, but that "100% safety" would certainly decrease for me.

That's the worst case scenario but also the scenario the leading party is still aiming for. I still have good hopes it will never come to that.

Some recent news about Barcelona:
Barcelona bans new clubs for 1 year: http://www.thelocal.es/20140613/barcelona-bans-new-cannabis-clubs-for-one-year

 

[gaiusmarius]

yeah i was more saying that we won't test the entries and stop anyone entering with over 15% lol. i realize it would involve all bud. i guess if they do it we will use Sams idea and ask members to send in with the sugar leaves which would reduce over all thc content. anyway i'm thinking they will not end up doing this, it will spoil their canna tourist industry if the customers are always getting disturbed by police raiding and checking every ones weed. would spoil the vibe and make it the same as anywhere else really. time will tell i guess, all we can do is take it event by event. my hope is that they will find most strains are not much over 15% anyway so no point to go with this, specially when you know that thc content is not all that is responsible for the high strength.

 

[Sativied]

Ah I see, misunderstood.

i guess if they do it we will use Sams idea and ask members to send in with the sugar leaves which would reduce over all thc content.

I doubt that's going to make a difference, sounds clever in theory but in practice only a very small amount of 'bud' is tested to determine the THC contents. They would be a dick about it and test the most frosty pieces.

anyway i'm thinking they will not end up doing this, it will spoil their canna tourist industry if the customers are always getting disturbed by police raiding and checking every ones weed. would spoil the vibe and make it the same as anywhere else really.

Yeah especially in Amsterdam which does want to hold up its reputation of being tolerant. The newly formed coalition in Amsterdam just last week announced they want Amsterdam to take a leading role when it comes to legal cannabis grows. So there's good and bad news and will just have to wait which way the scale tips.

 

[Matthew Harvey]

The only one I ever entered back in 2005 we won 2nd place Hash at. Hyped to see these are still going on! That's cool. Was just in Barcelona last month and are opening up a club now. Anyone in the know knew that news was coming. What is crazy is we went to a almost every social club too to get a feel for things - and Spain is at least 10 years behind. Their extracts have butane bubbles in them and would not be acceptable in North American in the slightest way, shape or form. The flowers were absolutely brutal. The hash? well let's just say that the God Bubble we won the ICMag 2nd hash cup with way back in 2005 was light years ahead of anything we saw or sampled just a couple weeks ago. And this is supposed to be 2014, while that was way back in 2005!!

 

[gaiusmarius]

The only one I ever entered back in 2005 we won 2nd place Hash at. Hyped to see these are still going on! That's cool. Was just in Barcelona last month and are opening up a club now. Anyone in the know knew that news was coming. What is crazy is we went to a almost every social club too to get a feel for things - and Spain is at least 10 years behind. Their extracts have butane bubbles in them and would not be acceptable in North American in the slightest way, shape or form. The flowers were absolutely brutal. The hash? well let's just say that the God Bubble we won the ICMag 2nd hash cup with way back in 2005 was light years ahead of anything we saw or sampled just a couple weeks ago. And this is supposed to be 2014, while that was way back in 2005!!

hm did you visit some of the places that were mentioned in the Barcelona Breeders Cup? some of the members who were there were very impressed with the bud quality and specially the price. also they were talking about top quality bho for like 10 euro a g.

anyway i did read an article recently about a club getting busted for serving tourists like common dealers rather then following the social club rules. cops seem to be going in undercover once they hear about a club. so yeah with the talk in the national gov of closing the social club loophole, will be interesting to see how the next years in the canna industry will go.

 

[Matthew Harvey]

We're not sure the places mentioned in the barcelona breeders cup but at strain hunters club for example we were shocked by the quality. you would think they would be doing way better than that. we didn't make it by Kush but we will next time... we're back in Barcelona right after the HT Med Cannabis Cup coming up at the end of month here in San Fran.

 

[catbuds]

I've been on the legalization bandwagon since about 1970. I'm so tired of waiting for legalization, I just want to move deep into the wilderness & do my thing & forget about all the political BS. If they indeed drop the limit on thc, this will ruin Amsterdam. One would think the cash flow generated by the tourist trade would be sorely missed. But I'm guessing Colorado & Uruguay may have already damaged that for them a little.
- I think the coffee houses had a certain atmosphere that was very appealing. I love coffee as much as I love weed. What could be more enjoyable that a good pastry, a BIG , perfect cup of coffee & a bowl or two. I'm looking forward to starbucks selling buds with their joe, to be comfortably consumed on premisses, surrounded by other like minded tokers.

 

[Sativied]

While there is a majority for the THC limit it has been decided to delay it again, more research will be done in regards to the testing method. So no 15% THC limit starting 2015.

However... it is considered likely to happen sooner or later anyway. There will already be a huge absurd fine for DUI that involves both cannabis and alcohol use soon. Technically even on a bike... And it gets worse. It looks like all the grow shops will have to close. Specifically facilitating the grow of mj in any way, by providing equipment or services, will become illegal. Even regular gardening shops will be checked and investigated for ties with mj growers... hydroponics is going to increase in popularity...

And, seed banks... they will also be investigated for ties with mj grows. One crazy possibility is that they'll only be allowed to export.

It's almost game over in the Netherlands. On paper anyway.

 

[Jahnice]

Pretty soon we'll all say, "Remember when Amsterdam used to be cool and people went there to smoke in coffeeshops?"[/QUOTE]

i have been waiting for the last 20 years for such a day...
but really, even if your glass jars at home are filled with all the varieties that the coffeeshop menus provide, it is still great fun to go to the Disneyland for adults.

Amsterdam is STILL very cool!

 

[mack 10]

@ MH, club npk had some nice bubble and the best concentrate I saw. They had a few types, wax's and a shatter, 20/25/30/35 euro a gram
Also heard last kalada has some good stuff now.
But when we went it did look like tane soup.

But improving all the time.

 

[Sativied]

Someone asked for an updated on my previous post through rep. Not sure which part in particular, but it's looking pretty bad in general. To sum it up:

- The MoJ behind the 15%thc limit, the closing of coffee shops, the failed weedpass (no tourists), and the grow shop law, recently resigned after it was discovered he misinformed the house over a settlement with a drug lord made years ago. His replacement tweeted he knows people who died from "hash and weed" so opposed to expectations it's actually possible things get worse, far worse.

- Grow shops are now urban garden center or closed or got raided by cops and were closed because of the new growshop low that went into effect this month. In some cities all growshops are closed. Some popular brands stopped distributing in NL. Decent HPS sets combined with carbon filter and exhaust for example are harder to find, and can only be bought in small numbers and separately.

- Head public prosecutor nicknamed mister hemp said in an interview he will end MJ growing (turn it the neck around, whack it...).

- Based on polls and the elections (congress indirectly) there's simply no way it's going to change in a positive direction. As a matter of fact, there are only two options now: strict regulation with approval of "Europe" (especially neighboring countries) or they will stop with what they consider a failed tolerance policy. Meaning all shops will have to close. One of the pro-cannabis parties that had some influence is now a very small party, ironically being punished by voters for having formed a coalition with the leading anti-pot party...

- Most seems to agree, and some of the above specifically mentioned, they shouldn't and won't bother growers with 5 plants. It's called the growshop law in the media etc but is essentially additions to the opium law, our drug laws, making facilitating cannabis grows illegal. Amsterdam did announce they will be looking into seedbanks as well, and may be limited to selling 5 seeds per person max.

- Local politicians including many majors still want a solution for the backdoor problem, give permits to some growers who will then be allowed to supply coffeeshops.

- They (too many parties including the leading) also want to reconsider introducing the I-criteria nationwide, in other words banning tourist from coffeeshops. Currently only the case in a few cities in the south at the border.

So, even though you may not notice anything just yet in Amsterdam, especially if it's your first time (no pun intended), if you planned to go to Amsterdam, I'd do it this year.

 

[mack 10]

Wow, that's a pretty shitty picture your painting.
I did think it would be better after "op" left.

Its like the ultimate reverse.
The rest if the world relaxing cannabis laws and Holland, Amsterdam especially going the
Opposite way, dam ironic.

 

[gaiusmarius]

depressing shit!

 

[Sativied]

The fines I mentioned earlier will go into effect this summer. For horror stories about how that works google how it works in germany, they like to pick out drivers with dutch car plates, have to pay huge fines and the blood test...

2x DUI cannabis and driver's license goes "poof!". Probably more an issue for those driving to and from Amsterdam than in Amsterdam itself, but anyone going after June should be careful or at least check the new law if you plan to rent a car or go by car even.

On a similar note, Abraxas had to close to recently. Some new employee had a gram or so coke and mdma.

Its like the ultimate reverse.
The rest if the world relaxing cannabis laws and Holland, Amsterdam especially going the
Opposite way, dam ironic.

Yes, a common argument here too from the pro-cannabis side. It's however not that relevant for the nay-sayers and easily refuted, the rest of the world doesn't have the long-term experience with the relaxed laws.

The hash/"weed"/coffeeshops were initially tolerated because hash users didn't cause problems like the heroin junkies. It became much more than that over the past 4 decades. It got out of hand, out of control. Most people on both sides agree the dutch policy failed (sale is legal, supply and growing is not) and it's a fact that it will change, probably drastically. Either government-controlled growers or zero-tolerance for growing (use will still be decriminalized).

In Germany they debated today about a proposal to legalize cannabis. More like regulate. If they would do that we'd likely quickly follow, but I don't even need to check the outcome, the leading parties aren't going to go along with that. Same reason as here, christian democrats would have to make the difference, not going to happen.

 

[Skip]

On a similar note, Abraxas had to close to recently

Oh no! Closed for good?

I love that place and I'm friends with Errol (the owner). How sad it's come to this.

 

[gaiusmarius]

talk about injustice, closing the place because what an employee has in his pocket! it's clear they are on a crusade against weed. was just talking to a local grow supplier and he has been taking on a lot of stock from Dutch companies that are selling off their inventories cheap. i'ts plain ridiculous, those idiots talk about a failed policy, when in fact they have the lowest amount of under age cannabis users. they have a very low level of street crime thats drug related, on the whole they were leading the way in harm reduction from drug use. now they are going the exact opposite way, they are opening the door to street dealers who will sell anything to anyone. the only reason things have gotten worse is because they have been tightening the screws for years.

closing someone livelihood like that for something an employee did on his own is such a misuse of the justice system, that it should be called the injustice system. the idiots will reap what they sow. they closed coffee shops for being near schools, those places checked id, now we will just have dealers on the street selling to folks in that area, including to the school kids who never would have gotten served in the tax paying coffee shop.

it's like with every god damn thing nowadays, those in power only use the power for their own ends, they couldn't give two shits for the wider effects on society. nor for the long term effects. it just has to sound good at election time, the rest is moot. what a fucked up world we are descending into. sensible policies are booted out and replaced with plain idiotic and anti personal freedom policies.

it's a real shame thats for sure and makes me wonder how long we will be able to keep our 420 tradition alive as in the last 11 years.

 

[Sativied]

Oh no! Closed for good?

I love that place and I'm friends with Errol (the owner). How sad it's come to this.

They actually could be open again already. They had some info about how they were closed on Feb 17 on their about page... which now says We're open.

Cached google page:
The Famous Coffeeshop in Amsterdam


As you may well have heard, the Gemeente and the mayor of Amsterdam closed the doors of Abraxas coffeeshop on the 17th february.
This is due to hard drugs being found on the premises during a coffeeshop police control in january.
The drugs were found on the belongings of a new employee which had been partying the previous night and was the amount of 0.49gr cocaine and 1.23gr MDMA.
Abraxas is now closed on the basis of Article 13b of the opium act which has been created in order to close drug houses. Part of the act states that a quantity of 0.5gr to 5gr could be classed as hard drugs being sold, delivered or present for this purpose. However this was not the case. Abraxas has had a zero tolerance policy on hard drugs since it opened its doors 24 years ago.
All employees are explained to in detail that of the house rules which are repeated at every meeting, however we can not monitor these kind of issues by stripsearching the employees every shift. Because of this, 28 employees are out of work due to the mistake of 1 person.


....


Quick search show they reopened a day ago! (under strict conditions...)

 

[gaiusmarius]

oh how kind, they decided not to shut down a tax paying business for nothing! under strict conditions indeed. they did nothing wrong, fine the young punk for the shit on his person and go about your day. anything more is pure abuse of justice system. glad some one still has a sense of common decency and logic, even amongst the people in power.