I want to go where ever it is.
RF
RF
-
Happy Birthday ICMag! Been 20 years since Gypsy Nirvana created the forum! We are celebrating with a 4/20 Giveaway and by launching a new Patreon tier called "420club". You can read more here.
-
Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!
Will 2014 be the last ICmag Cup in Amsterdam?
- Thread starter THC4SIM
- Start date
It would certainly be nice to have an event where we don't need to worry about the law and can hold the event in the open. High Times has managed to do it now in several states.
Colorado has some limitations in that all weed purchased and consumed there is supposed to be grown there and have the documentation to prove it.
California isn't hampered by that restriction.
I think we need to see how things play out in this fall's elections. There might be more liberal laws coming in. But the trend seems to be more and more regulation rather than a loosening of restrictions.
I think if we had it in California it would be huge cause we could have dispensaries as well as growers and breeders submit entries.
But in Cali, the big hangup is for out-of-staters who come because they're not likely to have physicians recommendations. And there's no reciprocity for out of state holders of medical marijuana cards or recommendations. So technically it could only be open to medical marijuana patients who reside in California.
Of course we have tons of icmagers here in cali, so we could pull it off, but I can tell you from what I've seen, these events take a huge amount of money upfront to reserve a place and pay for everything. They almost NEVER see a profit, except for raising the visibility of the organization putting it on. The organizers can end up deep in debt (after stressing out for months).
Maybe if we found some backers with deep pockets we could consider such an event, but I don't see any at my door...
Colorado has some limitations in that all weed purchased and consumed there is supposed to be grown there and have the documentation to prove it.
California isn't hampered by that restriction.
I think we need to see how things play out in this fall's elections. There might be more liberal laws coming in. But the trend seems to be more and more regulation rather than a loosening of restrictions.
I think if we had it in California it would be huge cause we could have dispensaries as well as growers and breeders submit entries.
But in Cali, the big hangup is for out-of-staters who come because they're not likely to have physicians recommendations. And there's no reciprocity for out of state holders of medical marijuana cards or recommendations. So technically it could only be open to medical marijuana patients who reside in California.
Of course we have tons of icmagers here in cali, so we could pull it off, but I can tell you from what I've seen, these events take a huge amount of money upfront to reserve a place and pay for everything. They almost NEVER see a profit, except for raising the visibility of the organization putting it on. The organizers can end up deep in debt (after stressing out for months).
Maybe if we found some backers with deep pockets we could consider such an event, but I don't see any at my door...
It would certainly be nice to have an event where we don't need to worry about the law and can hold the event in the open. High Times has managed to do it now in several states.
Colorado has some limitations in that all weed purchased and consumed there is supposed to be grown there and have the documentation to prove it.
California isn't hampered by that restriction.
I think we need to see how things play out in this fall's elections. There might be more liberal laws coming in. But the trend seems to be more and more regulation rather than a loosening of restrictions.
I think if we had it in California it would be huge cause we could have dispensaries as well as growers and breeders submit entries.
But in Cali, the big hangup is for out-of-staters who come because they're not likely to have physicians recommendations. And there's no reciprocity for out of state holders of medical marijuana cards or recommendations. So technically it could only be open to medical marijuana patients who reside in California.
Of course we have tons of icmagers here in cali, so we could pull it off, but I can tell you from what I've seen, these events take a huge amount of money upfront to reserve a place and pay for everything. They almost NEVER see a profit, except for raising the visibility of the organization putting it on. The organizers can end up deep in debt (after stressing out for months).
Maybe if we found some backers with deep pockets we could consider such an event, but I don't see any at my door...
That sounds like trying to do a burnout in 4th gear... Kinda like what HT did and alot of people complained.
I would say start small (it all starts from a seed)... Didn't the icmag cup start small there? To have a more personal feel to it? Icmag lampworkers made the trophies if I remember right.
It wouldn't cost much in a potluck (everybody pitches in) meet and greet atmosphere
why not just rent a huge house/property in the bay area for a weekend?
uh huh ...lol
You'd need something already setup to host a sizeable event. There are plenty of places like that in the North bay, some are even cannabis friendly. Everything from campgrounds to entire resorts.
Those can provide accommodation and have large meeting rooms. I can easily see 100 or more attending. If it's open to the public, a lot more!
Again, this is why you need deep pockets to do something like this.
As far as I know Gypsy lost big bucks on the first couple of IC Cups, and Gauis knows how expensive it can be to get something small going - and that is about as cheap as it gets.
If you want to do something in Cali, you have to get out of the bay area to get a reasonable rate, esp. for accommodation. Good luck finding a decent hotel in SF for under $200 a nite...I think $250 is the average rate now + another $50 a day for parking and around 15% hotel tax too.
So if you're going to put together a whole pkg for ppl including accommodation, it's gonna be more than a $50 entry fee to cover.
Then there's entertainment to be paid for, all sorts of overhead, food situation would need to be dealt with. Lots of things to sort out.
If you did it in SF, of course, then it's a whole different ballgame with ppl needing to spend a lot more to attend.
And of course there's a time commitment on the part of the organizers. They would have to be fully involved for at least a couple of weeks.
I really don't see anyone being able to pull this off this year. Perhaps next year?
what if we just rented a small canna friendly venue in SF to host the actual cup, and the rest is the responsibility of the patron (i.e lodging, food, entertainment ect), i mean it is sf, i bet half would go to house of prime rib lol, some to china town,the rest to the multitude of places that make sf awesome.
it seems like it makes things easier when their are smaller, simpler pieces as opposed to one big giant package deal, what the heck, just come to a spot, pick up your samples, and come back at said time to enjoy the awards ceremony, the rest is up to you!
it seems like it makes things easier when their are smaller, simpler pieces as opposed to one big giant package deal, what the heck, just come to a spot, pick up your samples, and come back at said time to enjoy the awards ceremony, the rest is up to you!
Given that the supply side of the market there is unregulated there is no way to implement testing without huge reforms. Just more politicians farting into the wind about the dangers of "Skunk".
if ICMAG Cup doesn't move to Denver it will be forgotten soon.
if ICMAG Cup doesn't move to Denver it will be forgotten soon.
you could probably make a Co cup work by just letting legal producers enter. if you ask for a decenrt amount to enter you can sell a lot of judge packs and use that to pay expenses. works well on a small scale, should be possible to do it on a bigger scale, special when the producers are legal and have access to large amounts. i think this wouldn't lose money at all if done right, just don't go for heavy expenditure entertainment, make it about the judging. some ht cups ask for 500g of weed per entry, if you ask for 100g you can make an awesome event. with the way it's booming over there i'm sure businesses will even pay you to have a stand.
you can make a deal with legal sellers that they can have a stand and sell to visitors who are not judges. depending on the rules of course.
you can make a deal with legal sellers that they can have a stand and sell to visitors who are not judges. depending on the rules of course.
drpressure600
Member
The Dutch government always comes out & announces stuff like this from time to time. They are closing the coffee shops for the last 20 years, not to mention the red light district.
The original argument was that the THC% of dutch flower tolerated to be sold in coffeeshops was getting too high (i.e. compared to import) to tolerate and increased too much (from 2000-2004 basically).
The average THC % of popular dutch flower based on testing 50 coffeeshops (src: Trimbos) dropped from 15.5% in 2012 to 13.5% in 2013. "Problem" solved.
Also, the current Dutch government won't be the same Dutch government forever. In Amsterdam the party that has led the city council for many decades lost and now D66 (sort of liberal-ish democrats that focuses on students) is leading. Not sure how much influence that will have, but I'm pretty sure at the very least it won't get much worse. Same for national government, the current leading party VVD (misnomer-liberals) and the prime minister (who talks about MJ like Nancy Reagan did) and the MoJ Ivo Opstelten won't rule forever.
There is actually a majority in congress that wants to legalize or regulate. The two leading parties lost their majority in the polls by such a large extend that they should be resigning. Repression-wise it's unlikely to get worse after the next elections, but the result of the current repressive approach are so clearly negative that the opposing parties, of which some will likely rule in the near future, want to legalize by regulation. Which may come down to government-grows which reek of communism rather than fine high quality mj. Good chance that in 6-7 years some unemployed and uneducated people in the Netherlands will get welfare in return for volunteer work in government MJ grows. Just as in Uruguay the government would be deciding what strains are allowed to be grown and sold.
Recently our PM was at the agricultural university of Wageningen - of all places - and when asked by students why they aren't a bit more lenient towards mj growers, he responded, roughly translated: "stay away from that trash, it will cause your IQ to drop and cause premature dementia". And added: "If we do that than next time I call Berlin* they will tell me to clean up that mess first".
*Berlin, as in Merkel. In short we are merely an economic province of Germany and can't go against the boss in EU.
While the MoJ Opstelten's and PM Mark Rutte's arguments about foreign pressure and agreements (EU and UN) are by many disputed, history has proven them to be right about that. If it weren't for the massive pressure of a former French president (J. Chirac) about 15 year ago, cannabis would likely already be legal, or at the least the supply issue would have been handled. The french basically labelled us as a narco state. We depend more than a lot on export and diplomatic relations than most people here realize. The only power we have is to influence and fine-tune decisions made by others, we cannot really go our own way.
There's still hope for the future though. Recently the youngster versions of the leading/larger parties in Amsterdam presented their plans, which includes legalizing cannabis, mushrooms (again) and XTC/MDMA (popular amongst the new generation, not just ravers). Essentially all drugs except the obvious harmful ones like heroin, crack, meth etc. At the same time the formerly cannabis repressing political parties are getting smaller and smaller (unlike the fake liberals who are leading atm it used to be the religious parties blocking progress/legalization).
In the meantime there will be ups and downs but I very much doubt it will ever get so 'down' that the IC mag cup cannot be held in Amsterdam.
The average THC % of popular dutch flower based on testing 50 coffeeshops (src: Trimbos) dropped from 15.5% in 2012 to 13.5% in 2013. "Problem" solved.
Also, the current Dutch government won't be the same Dutch government forever. In Amsterdam the party that has led the city council for many decades lost and now D66 (sort of liberal-ish democrats that focuses on students) is leading. Not sure how much influence that will have, but I'm pretty sure at the very least it won't get much worse. Same for national government, the current leading party VVD (misnomer-liberals) and the prime minister (who talks about MJ like Nancy Reagan did) and the MoJ Ivo Opstelten won't rule forever.
There is actually a majority in congress that wants to legalize or regulate. The two leading parties lost their majority in the polls by such a large extend that they should be resigning. Repression-wise it's unlikely to get worse after the next elections, but the result of the current repressive approach are so clearly negative that the opposing parties, of which some will likely rule in the near future, want to legalize by regulation. Which may come down to government-grows which reek of communism rather than fine high quality mj. Good chance that in 6-7 years some unemployed and uneducated people in the Netherlands will get welfare in return for volunteer work in government MJ grows. Just as in Uruguay the government would be deciding what strains are allowed to be grown and sold.
Recently our PM was at the agricultural university of Wageningen - of all places - and when asked by students why they aren't a bit more lenient towards mj growers, he responded, roughly translated: "stay away from that trash, it will cause your IQ to drop and cause premature dementia". And added: "If we do that than next time I call Berlin* they will tell me to clean up that mess first".
*Berlin, as in Merkel. In short we are merely an economic province of Germany and can't go against the boss in EU.
While the MoJ Opstelten's and PM Mark Rutte's arguments about foreign pressure and agreements (EU and UN) are by many disputed, history has proven them to be right about that. If it weren't for the massive pressure of a former French president (J. Chirac) about 15 year ago, cannabis would likely already be legal, or at the least the supply issue would have been handled. The french basically labelled us as a narco state. We depend more than a lot on export and diplomatic relations than most people here realize. The only power we have is to influence and fine-tune decisions made by others, we cannot really go our own way.
There's still hope for the future though. Recently the youngster versions of the leading/larger parties in Amsterdam presented their plans, which includes legalizing cannabis, mushrooms (again) and XTC/MDMA (popular amongst the new generation, not just ravers). Essentially all drugs except the obvious harmful ones like heroin, crack, meth etc. At the same time the formerly cannabis repressing political parties are getting smaller and smaller (unlike the fake liberals who are leading atm it used to be the religious parties blocking progress/legalization).
In the meantime there will be ups and downs but I very much doubt it will ever get so 'down' that the IC mag cup cannot be held in Amsterdam.
nice post, Sativied
I live in NL and even then it's still hard to get a handle on the political situation here... us Brits are only just getting used to the idea of coalitions after all
I live in NL and even then it's still hard to get a handle on the political situation here... us Brits are only just getting used to the idea of coalitions after all
I just stumbled on a reasonable article today, not the typical popular piece, with a proper amount of references:
http://www.tdpf.org.uk/blog/cannabis-policy-netherlands-moving-forwards-not-backwards
"Misunderstandings and misreporting of actual and proposed changes to Dutch cannabis policy in 2011 have led some opponents of cannabis reform to suggest the country is retreating from its longstanding and pragmatic policy of tolerating the possession, use and sale of cannabis.
This is not the case. In reality, ..."
Scroll down to the Public Opinion section in the article. The downs are plenty and some quite horrible, e.g. read about Doede de Jong https://news.vice.com/article/why-the-netherlands-weed-industry-has-gone-underground, and a judge ruling against coffeeshops in Amsterdam that don't want to close, and the neverending raiding of 'hennepkwekerijen', but there will be an end to the madness sooner than later.
When asked during a debate about the backdoor (supply/grow) issue if the goal was to close all the coffeeshops in the Netherlands, the MoJ answered: "No, that's not realistic". While 50% of all cops and 75% of all detectives are working on the war against drugs (cannabis in particular). During that debate the dynamics of coalitions become apparent. The obvious question that raises when someone starts a nationwide witch hunt against all growers yet claims closing all shops isn't the goal, is where should those shops buy their product? Yet nobody actually poses that question directly. Politicians are soft here (they'd be laughed out of the House of Commons in the UK and may even start crying).
The anti-cannabis MoJ said several times - to avoid answering the indirect attempts of getting that obvious question answered - his party (VVD) is for the current gedoogbeleid (policy of acquiescence, forbidden by law but tolerated anyway) and that the current repressive approach is to make things controllable again, things got out of hand, etc.etc. I suspect they want to stretch the current situation long enough so they can, as I mentioned in a previous post, fine tune and influence a decision in the EU or from the UN (in 2016) rather than pioneer.
Now the point The same MoJ who wholeheartedly refuses to even consider or talk about the government grows (that would be very un-VVD-like), and says he wants to keep the gedoogbeleid also wants that 15%THC limit. It is of course absurd to enforce a law that requires coffeeshops to test the product they are not legally allowed to buy and growers aren't legally allowed to grow. The MoJ has a lot of power these days, especially since all cops are basically federal cops under his command since a few years (mayor used to be boss of cops, so some municipalities were more lenient than others, especially with the 5plants that 'were' tolerated), but such absurdness isn't likely going to hold up in court. I promise that in the unlikely event I ever see an article of a coffeeshop being punished for selling mj with 15+ THC% I will post it here.
http://www.tdpf.org.uk/blog/cannabis-policy-netherlands-moving-forwards-not-backwards
"Misunderstandings and misreporting of actual and proposed changes to Dutch cannabis policy in 2011 have led some opponents of cannabis reform to suggest the country is retreating from its longstanding and pragmatic policy of tolerating the possession, use and sale of cannabis.
This is not the case. In reality, ..."
Scroll down to the Public Opinion section in the article. The downs are plenty and some quite horrible, e.g. read about Doede de Jong https://news.vice.com/article/why-the-netherlands-weed-industry-has-gone-underground, and a judge ruling against coffeeshops in Amsterdam that don't want to close, and the neverending raiding of 'hennepkwekerijen', but there will be an end to the madness sooner than later.
When asked during a debate about the backdoor (supply/grow) issue if the goal was to close all the coffeeshops in the Netherlands, the MoJ answered: "No, that's not realistic". While 50% of all cops and 75% of all detectives are working on the war against drugs (cannabis in particular). During that debate the dynamics of coalitions become apparent. The obvious question that raises when someone starts a nationwide witch hunt against all growers yet claims closing all shops isn't the goal, is where should those shops buy their product? Yet nobody actually poses that question directly. Politicians are soft here (they'd be laughed out of the House of Commons in the UK and may even start crying).
The anti-cannabis MoJ said several times - to avoid answering the indirect attempts of getting that obvious question answered - his party (VVD) is for the current gedoogbeleid (policy of acquiescence, forbidden by law but tolerated anyway) and that the current repressive approach is to make things controllable again, things got out of hand, etc.etc. I suspect they want to stretch the current situation long enough so they can, as I mentioned in a previous post, fine tune and influence a decision in the EU or from the UN (in 2016) rather than pioneer.
Now the point
The same MoJ who wholeheartedly refuses to even consider or talk about the government grows (that would be very un-VVD-like), and says he wants to keep the gedoogbeleid also wants that 15%THC limit. It is of course absurd to enforce a law that requires coffeeshops to test the product they are not legally allowed to buy and growers aren't legally allowed to grow. The MoJ has a lot of power these days, especially since all cops are basically federal cops under his command since a few years (mayor used to be boss of cops, so some municipalities were more lenient than others, especially with the 5plants that 'were' tolerated), but such absurdness isn't likely going to hold up in court. I promise that in the unlikely event I ever see an article of a coffeeshop being punished for selling mj with 15+ THC% I will post it here.
There're a lot of topics being discussed in here, maybe because they're related... vaguely.
I won't be able to contribute nothing to the 15 percent debate, have no idea from where policy makers have decided on that number, but that's the same percentage that will be allowed in Uruguay.
On the issue of whether this was the last ICMag Cup in Amsterdam... Well, it's a bit more difficult to say. While some might want to make it sound as a pit hole where much money needs to be invested (and possibly lost), I believe that the point has already been proven, it's possible to have an ICMag Cup with virtually no budget.
Amsterdam has hosted us for so many years, but in the last 10 years, things are changing around the world, which allows us to try new places... Amsterdam in the meantime, is coming up with its own limitations.
So why not take the "I" from ICMag, and be truly "international"?
Time has shown us that (at least on this side of the pond) it is possible for a group of people to get organized and get an event going, with no cost for ICmag.
What I am trying to say is that, if there's a group of members in say, Portugal or Colombia (both of which allow possession) willing to organize the ICMag Cup, why not to give them a try?
... Or we can move the date to July, when the weather in the Dam is better
Just a thougt.
B
I won't be able to contribute nothing to the 15 percent debate, have no idea from where policy makers have decided on that number, but that's the same percentage that will be allowed in Uruguay.
On the issue of whether this was the last ICMag Cup in Amsterdam... Well, it's a bit more difficult to say. While some might want to make it sound as a pit hole where much money needs to be invested (and possibly lost), I believe that the point has already been proven, it's possible to have an ICMag Cup with virtually no budget.
Amsterdam has hosted us for so many years, but in the last 10 years, things are changing around the world, which allows us to try new places... Amsterdam in the meantime, is coming up with its own limitations.
So why not take the "I" from ICMag, and be truly "international"?
Time has shown us that (at least on this side of the pond) it is possible for a group of people to get organized and get an event going, with no cost for ICmag.
What I am trying to say is that, if there's a group of members in say, Portugal or Colombia (both of which allow possession) willing to organize the ICMag Cup, why not to give them a try?
... Or we can move the date to July, when the weather in the Dam is better
Just a thougt.
B
pekelo44
Member
me too. They moved the HTCC to Santa Rosa, CA too far out for me because I do not drive at all I guess it's greyhound bus lines for me, or amtrakWhat can us members do to help make this happen? I would love to see an IC cup come to Cali
amsterdam is shit, has been for years - the weather aint much better than UK if at all, the food is shit, the herb is wank and overpriced, most of what is on sale is not what it purports to be.
You can buy and smoke herb there - thats it
You can buy and smoke herb there - thats it
greenpinky
Member
Internationally known! Internationally grown!...
