H
Hempe
please provide support
A
Alfred
Maybe it's a myth.......? Some people think so.
I think some people are just against it because it is too easy?
I think some people are just against it because it is too easy?
spiralofeyes
Member
Can't really provide any support. The whole anti-fem argument is based on early,poorly bred fem lines. The fact that Chimera,Tom Hill,DJ Short,the CSG team and a slew of other very knowledgable herbsmen have and continue to use pollen from preredominately pistillate plants tells me all I,personally need to know. Its a breeding tool,period. Tools can be used wrong...
BrownThumb
Member
I think you're asking about breeding with feminized seeds, yeah? I have read concern about hermaphrodites. Often how seeds are created is by inducing male flowers on female plants via GA3 or colloidal silver to produce strictly female seeds as female plants do not carry the "Y" chromosome. This is just a rumor I read on the internet though, I'd Google it if I am even answering the correct question.
H
Hempe
i am making seeds with fem seeds as the fathers. this is all you need to know. The pollinated plants will all be from normal seeds.
As long as the fem seeds aren't from GHS (or others alike) you're good to go...
Peace, HJ.
Peace, HJ.
I can not support that proposition nor can anybody else with any science ime. The very nature of the plants being reversed, is the issue. It has been my experience that the vast majority of plants reversed are supposed elite genotypes. Take that further towards the truth, and they are often the progeny from unforced selfings of elite genotypes. IE, the plants folks are mostly reversing are already and previously disposed to the often outcome, unforced. None of this hypothesis has any true relation to the technique itself.
Its been common knowledge that the way they propagate if the population is low in Male donors it to naturally self to ensure a next season..This is natural in nature but it usually re-balances itself as well in following years re-stabilizing itself with Standard Males/Females as the following year may prod more and the Need for the population to cause these selfed seeds is lessened...It also can be caused by environmental stresses in nature like a very cold end of year storm..
Theres 2 views tho....Standard Males will Flower Early to Mid season..Selfing Females happens mosty End of Season to ensure any form of following population..But within this is the Idea that it will in the following season re-balance itself by means of Natural Selection of the Strongest/Most progressive Phenoms or by saying "Elites"..
Does this process sound natural?....
Now the diff to me and why I avoid using Man made Feminized Seed is...It is far from natural even tho the Process happens naturally in nature it does not fix itself naturally..Unless you re-open the population with Standard parents again its still using a limited % of the populous and the traits that made it what it was can be limited as well...Specially if its going to be used to form a New hybrid which the following will need to be stabilized in order to see any later homogeneous generations...
Also from inbreeding you can run into issues just like if humans inbreed..We get mutations, bottle necked evolution and 3 arm'ed kids with webbed toes..heh...
Now the question is...Is the Female "Cultivar" Mother that will be used a True Female meaning the Best of her population by Natural Selection?....In our seedy world you better hope the guy that selected it is as good as Mother nature right?..heh....Which is fine when its a isolated phenom expression that shows it self in a Dominant way thus making its cultivar desirable...A population will show Multiple solid Mothers of that Cultivar not just 1...It also wil show instability, and other parental traits not displayed in the original cultivar...
Meaning from its progeny when a Standard Male is used we will see standard plants with normal M/F ratios..Not 90% Fem..or 80% Males...more like 75/25(F/M), 60/40, 50/50 on avr from standard enviros..
By using a Feminized Mother even tho it may carry traits of the Father the future Generation will be Dominated by a different manipulated Pool which to me is now Unbalanced in a few aspects...
Feminized Seed was used early so that ppl would have no need to remove Males from natural Populations...
It was a Production tool...Not a breeding tool....
Seems some are trying to validate this unnatural process...naturally?....heh,...
so IMO I will never use a Feminized Mother nor Line to work with but I will only know that the population I'll be creating is not feminized by making sure the Males are standard and flower as standard Males creating a re-balance in the population thats being worked..
DJ did not continue to use the traits of hermis within his work..He worked forward the lines to remove it further after initial use...
The sensitivity of his Lines/Work is what causes so many to see hermis within it after the fact as the avr Grower is NOT DJ Short...
Problem ppl are having are why are they seeing a shift in Feminized Males?...and not understanding their use wondering why they should not be used as they Appear as a standard Male...But are they truly?...
Maybe Chimera, DJ or Tom can answer that fully....
If a Feminized Female is to be used than Outcross her to a standard Stable line Male/s or keep it Inline within its Genetic types so that the progeny will be at least Related and hopefully regain stability from the Re-infused standard showing Male populous...
Next selection we Choose new Mirror images of the Mother but Do not Use the orig Mother as she is limited in Chromos..
We use these New Mothers that now have standard traits passed from the Males..Also we choose the Males we want to keep the traits from, of the genetic line being worked...Using multiple relative males and females to continue to work the whole process Forward "more Naturally"..
Im no geneticist but thats how this cave man views the mess its becoming...
so best view I have is...
Fem lines are for mass production of Product....Not Breeding...end of line...
FOE20
Theres 2 views tho....Standard Males will Flower Early to Mid season..Selfing Females happens mosty End of Season to ensure any form of following population..But within this is the Idea that it will in the following season re-balance itself by means of Natural Selection of the Strongest/Most progressive Phenoms or by saying "Elites"..
Does this process sound natural?....
Now the diff to me and why I avoid using Man made Feminized Seed is...It is far from natural even tho the Process happens naturally in nature it does not fix itself naturally..Unless you re-open the population with Standard parents again its still using a limited % of the populous and the traits that made it what it was can be limited as well...Specially if its going to be used to form a New hybrid which the following will need to be stabilized in order to see any later homogeneous generations...
Also from inbreeding you can run into issues just like if humans inbreed..We get mutations, bottle necked evolution and 3 arm'ed kids with webbed toes..heh...
Now the question is...Is the Female "Cultivar" Mother that will be used a True Female meaning the Best of her population by Natural Selection?....In our seedy world you better hope the guy that selected it is as good as Mother nature right?..heh....Which is fine when its a isolated phenom expression that shows it self in a Dominant way thus making its cultivar desirable...A population will show Multiple solid Mothers of that Cultivar not just 1...It also wil show instability, and other parental traits not displayed in the original cultivar...
Meaning from its progeny when a Standard Male is used we will see standard plants with normal M/F ratios..Not 90% Fem..or 80% Males...more like 75/25(F/M), 60/40, 50/50 on avr from standard enviros..
By using a Feminized Mother even tho it may carry traits of the Father the future Generation will be Dominated by a different manipulated Pool which to me is now Unbalanced in a few aspects...
Feminized Seed was used early so that ppl would have no need to remove Males from natural Populations...
It was a Production tool...Not a breeding tool....
Seems some are trying to validate this unnatural process...naturally?....heh,...
so IMO I will never use a Feminized Mother nor Line to work with but I will only know that the population I'll be creating is not feminized by making sure the Males are standard and flower as standard Males creating a re-balance in the population thats being worked..
DJ did not continue to use the traits of hermis within his work..He worked forward the lines to remove it further after initial use...
The sensitivity of his Lines/Work is what causes so many to see hermis within it after the fact as the avr Grower is NOT DJ Short...
Problem ppl are having are why are they seeing a shift in Feminized Males?...and not understanding their use wondering why they should not be used as they Appear as a standard Male...But are they truly?...
Maybe Chimera, DJ or Tom can answer that fully....
If a Feminized Female is to be used than Outcross her to a standard Stable line Male/s or keep it Inline within its Genetic types so that the progeny will be at least Related and hopefully regain stability from the Re-infused standard showing Male populous...
Next selection we Choose new Mirror images of the Mother but Do not Use the orig Mother as she is limited in Chromos..
We use these New Mothers that now have standard traits passed from the Males..Also we choose the Males we want to keep the traits from, of the genetic line being worked...Using multiple relative males and females to continue to work the whole process Forward "more Naturally"..
Im no geneticist but thats how this cave man views the mess its becoming...
so best view I have is...
Fem lines are for mass production of Product....Not Breeding...end of line...
FOE20
Can you please be a little more clear?
I see no problem with it, unless I hear from some people that have tried this with negative results.
Are you working on anything new Tom?
R.Fortune
H
Hempe
thanks for the help guys i didnt read that big post too much words. I appreciate all the input and wish me luck making seeds with fems!
the fems im going to be using are
chem valley kush
raspberry cough
purple wreck
the fems im going to be using are
chem valley kush
raspberry cough
purple wreck
I could not read through foe20's shit either, it was bullshit. No, plants do not flip to ensure their next season, this is some bs line some dude you got herms from fed you, it's bs.
I puked halfway through the second paragraph, this is not inline with what we know at all.
By the time you are getting down to the 4th paragraph you just started throwing Australian humus down our throats, completely loosing site of any real science.
I am disgusted with your post and likewise thralled that anybody would think it had worth enough to find it valuable. You have no clue about wtf you are talking about.
Phenom is not a word, cultivar should be replaced by candivar, there is no such thing as true female, you are replacing the term natural selection with something some clown has put into your head. You replace dominant for homozygous. Your post is so fucked up, I don't even know where to start, except for advising you to end it. You are learning about these things from all the wrong people, those clowns have no clue wtf they are talking about. There is no standard males, or standard females, any of that shit.
Female seeds may have been sold to you under some guise or another, but this has little to do with why knowledgeable breeders utilize the technique. This is not about the old days either, those clowns are just as lame today as they were yesterday. This was like, half your post, that's how far I got through.
Robert, if you breed to plants, the outcome is already there before you breed them, it makes no matter how you breed them, the potential outcomes are already there, male/female, female/female, these two parameters alone will have zero effect on the outcome, aside from that which we know about cannabis sexuality and in regards to their autosomal dispositions. If you hear somebody having negative results, blame the plants used, not the technique. Of course I am working with new things, new things are piling up
Rock on Hempe, your heads on straight sir. Just know that those crosses you're working with -all of them- have 2 strikes against them in regards to intersex plants within those populations. If you fail, please for fucks sake, don't blame the technique.
I puked halfway through the second paragraph, this is not inline with what we know at all.
By the time you are getting down to the 4th paragraph you just started throwing Australian humus down our throats, completely loosing site of any real science.
I am disgusted with your post and likewise thralled that anybody would think it had worth enough to find it valuable. You have no clue about wtf you are talking about.
Phenom is not a word, cultivar should be replaced by candivar, there is no such thing as true female, you are replacing the term natural selection with something some clown has put into your head. You replace dominant for homozygous. Your post is so fucked up, I don't even know where to start, except for advising you to end it. You are learning about these things from all the wrong people, those clowns have no clue wtf they are talking about. There is no standard males, or standard females, any of that shit.
Female seeds may have been sold to you under some guise or another, but this has little to do with why knowledgeable breeders utilize the technique. This is not about the old days either, those clowns are just as lame today as they were yesterday. This was like, half your post, that's how far I got through.
Robert, if you breed to plants, the outcome is already there before you breed them, it makes no matter how you breed them, the potential outcomes are already there, male/female, female/female, these two parameters alone will have zero effect on the outcome, aside from that which we know about cannabis sexuality and in regards to their autosomal dispositions. If you hear somebody having negative results, blame the plants used, not the technique. Of course I am working with new things, new things are piling up
Rock on Hempe, your heads on straight sir. Just know that those crosses you're working with -all of them- have 2 strikes against them in regards to intersex plants within those populations. If you fail, please for fucks sake, don't blame the technique.
Thanks Tom.
R.Fortune
R.Fortune
stickshift
Active member
by stating that, then surely every clone grow or all female grow will show this! it simply doesn't. the reason you see late seedset from intersexual expressions is all hormonal and in that particular plant, like others have said before nothing is true, it's subjective to the pressures you apply, for me that's in a indoor enviroment I make my choices on that and pick the plants to suit that niche, stick them in a field and they might well show intersexual expression due to different stresses, light periods etc etc..
Theres nothing wrong with gynoecious breeding, oddly it happens in nature too, just look at how dioecy evolved.
Stickshift..thats expression...which is 50/50....50%Enviro to 50%Genetics = Expression...
Making and Using are 2 diff things....Use them and follow your own feelings and didnt think it would get so personal...Sorry I wasted your time...
and I'll put my BS up against anyones anytime...and lets see whos population rings true..I have plenty of faith on it myself...Nature that is...not Man...
Aussi humus..heh...ur a funny guy...go eat a german shwarma might go well with that humus...
The validation of Feminization...why would there be a Need to validate this at all then?...whatever...dont even care now as I said my view..easy enough...
Like the song says...You do it to Yourself..ya do..Just you and no one else...Not even a bottle of STS/CS...Manipulation of a natural process.....sure...and for what cause and to what ends?...
1 boob is great...but it takes a natural pair to make them really Tits!
FOE20
Making and Using are 2 diff things....Use them and follow your own feelings and didnt think it would get so personal...Sorry I wasted your time...
and I'll put my BS up against anyones anytime...and lets see whos population rings true..I have plenty of faith on it myself...Nature that is...not Man...
Aussi humus..heh...ur a funny guy...go eat a german shwarma might go well with that humus...
The validation of Feminization...why would there be a Need to validate this at all then?...whatever...dont even care now as I said my view..easy enough...
Like the song says...You do it to Yourself..ya do..Just you and no one else...Not even a bottle of STS/CS...Manipulation of a natural process.....sure...and for what cause and to what ends?...
1 boob is great...but it takes a natural pair to make them really Tits!
FOE20
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stickshift
Active member
Stickshift..thats expression...which is 50/50....50%Enviro to 50%Genetics = Expression...
Making and Using are 2 diff things....Use them and follow your own feelings and didnt think it would get so personal...Sorry I wasted your time...
and I'll put my BS up against anyones anytime...and lets see whos population rings true..I have plenty of faith on it myself...Nature that is...not Man...
Aussi humus..heh...ur a funny guy...go eat a german shwarma might go well with that humus...
The validation of Feminization...why would there be a Need to validate this at all then?...whatever...dont even care now as I said my view..easy enough...
Like the song says...You do it to Yourself..ya do..Just you and no one else...Not even a bottle of STS/CS...Manipulation of a natural process.....sure...and for what cause and to what ends?...
1 boob is great...but it takes a natural pair to make them really Tits!
FOE20
Yes and to be expressed it has to be there! you are sounding like a jehovah witness!. theres a world of difference from a reversed plant and an intersex one that is highly sensitive. you do realise if it wasn't for man we would be smoking hemp! and going thru monoecious plants. Would you sooner man had not manipulated them?
and she can sprout tits and a cock all at the same time, she will still be female!.
i see no harm in using a fem plant in breeding. selection is everything.
could any of the naysayers explain to me, what is the difference between using an outstanding female from fem seeds, and using an outstanding female from regular seeds in a cross? (to a male plant)
how will the progeny differ?
VG
could any of the naysayers explain to me, what is the difference between using an outstanding female from fem seeds, and using an outstanding female from regular seeds in a cross? (to a male plant)
how will the progeny differ?
VG
A
auto guerilla
it's how the fem seed was made. if it came from a strain that naturally hermies, its bad. if the fem seed came from 2 females and one had to be chemically induced to become male, it's good. just make sure the strain you're working with isn't naturally hermie prone and its all good to breed with.
growhi
Member
i dont know much about breeding ...................... but using common sense id say the negatives about breeding with fems its its unnatural , and that your unwittingly breeding for hermie traits ,
i know nothing about indoor growing is natural per say , but breeding useing only fems, is basicly saying males are not needed and thats not healthy at all !
another thing is i seem to get allot of pure males in fem seeds iv had about 10 in total and 2 in one 5 pack of fems ........................... could this be a sign of nature fighting back ? and do the progeny of these males produce m/f seeds ?
now iv herd the argument that these are infact just highly hermie prone females,but if the number of these plants start creeping up and you start getting 10/90 20/80 30/70% lady boys , with no smokeable buds which for all intensive purpose's are male, then the hole point of fem seeds then starts becoming pretty pointless ! ............................... maybe nature really does know best !
i know nothing about indoor growing is natural per say , but breeding useing only fems, is basicly saying males are not needed and thats not healthy at all !
another thing is i seem to get allot of pure males in fem seeds iv had about 10 in total and 2 in one 5 pack of fems ........................... could this be a sign of nature fighting back ? and do the progeny of these males produce m/f seeds ?
now iv herd the argument that these are infact just highly hermie prone females,but if the number of these plants start creeping up and you start getting 10/90 20/80 30/70% lady boys , with no smokeable buds which for all intensive purpose's are male, then the hole point of fem seeds then starts becoming pretty pointless ! ............................... maybe nature really does know best !
stickshift
Active member
you havn't used common sense! breeding full stop is unnatural you select etc, you move it to your goals.. otherwise what is the point?
