Why do you grow organically?

[Douglas.Curtis]

I like crops I can walk away from for a week and be ok. Hydro needs at least twice a day interaction.

Proper hydro requires one peek a day as well. If you have to constantly 'burp' your hydro you're doing it wrong.

Ph in soil? Plants deal with too high of pH better than too low. Too high of a pH and it slowly lowers, as the roots rot and drop the pH. Neither too high, nor too low pH in soil is ideal for a perfect grow. Unless you create the proper soil mix, your quality will suffer. Exactly the same way as in hydro, only hydro is stupid simple to mix properly as the info has been around for nearly 20 years.

Hydro, set up and maintained properly, is so stupid simple I sometimes can't believe it. Learning proper hydro, from the jumbled mess of information online, is what's difficult. I actually feel sorry for the majority of growers, soil and hydro alike. Prohibition has made their lives hell and their product is sub-standard, compared to what it really should be.

Cannabis is a hyper/dynamic accumulator plant. Unless you really understand what this means, it doesn't matter what style you use I'm not going to be impressed with your output. I used to think my cannabis was better than everything grown by others, until (once, years ago) I came across cannabis which was absolutely stellar. It put everything I'd ever done (and come across from others) to shame.

With time and research I fixed my issues. It took the expansion of my awareness of quality to do it. Growers should constantly source cannabis from others and ASK HOW IT WAS DONE when they find something better than what they can produce. Generally they lack awareness of the difference or the balls to admit they don't grow as well as they thought.

Be different, seek excellence, admit your shortcomings. In time people will go gaga over your cannabis, even when you screw it up.

 

[Pwyll]

Everyone has preferences. Organic vs Chems. Indoor vs outdoor. Regular vs feminized. Auto flower vs photoperiod. Landrace strains vs hybrids. But reputable assessments are blind surely? The judges don't know the strain or grow details until after they vote. If judges are deliberately focusing on some criteria other than finished product that is shameful

But the talk of evaluating product brings up an interesting aside. Most of us here agree that in general you get a better product when growing organically. However when the big seed companies present their product for the most part they are not organic, unless grown outside, or at least were not 7-10 years ago. Fairly obvious answer I think, but interesting none the less.

This idea of don't knock it until you've tried it sounds good. But how many nutrient lines do you have to try before you can say "I prefer organic"? Have you tried the new Brand X line for 2018? No?

 

[DocTim420]

Jhhn--isn't what I stated about being in the driver's seat for autoflowers true? I received some autoflower beans as freebies many, many moons ago and grew them out. Yes, they were nice. But that was about it--they were "nice".

Autoflowers have limitations and for some--that is a good thing and for others--not so good. But like all things in life, what is great to one person is mediocre to someone else...and visa versa. Just because I do "A" and you do "B" does not mean one is bad/superior to the other. If it works for you, then it will always be superior to you.

Pwyll--having too many categories may make the competition more cumbersome. Example, wine tasting competitions are usually done in a blind tasting format with the wine judged on how it presents itself at the moment of judging--not what it might be in a few years. The judging is within varietals--so a Cabernet Sauvignon does not compete with a Pinot Noir...and sometimes within price groups or geographic regions (but not always).

Blind tasting means the judge does not know the winery's name, year or vineyard--just the varietal (Cabernet Sauvignon, Chardonnay, Zinfandel, etc). Sometimes there are sub categories for "organic"--but not always. Ahh...there is the rub, in the wine world there are certain varietals that are established and do not morph or change.

In the cannabis world, most of the original unmolested "strains" have become diluted and are no longer grown. It's the newer and improved strains/cultivars created within the last few years that drives this marketplace. The one's popular from my generation...particularly from the 1960/70s are basically "extinct" (Columbian, Panama Red, Thai, Acapulco Gold, Michoacan Spears and other Mex strains named after the locality which they were grown). What will be judged in 20 years from now--will most likely not be the same stains we see today.

Kinda makes sense for the basic 3 categories: Indica, Sativa & Hybrid. I know in the wine world using the basic 3 categories would not make sense: Red, White & Sparkling. Subcategories like "hydro, soil-less, & soil" might make sense--but then that kinda suggests there are differences in the finished product...which is basically against what we are all saying: It is the gardener that makes the garden great...not garden itself.

 

[Pwyll]

I'm not suggesting different categories. Just I've heard that most cannabis cup winners are grown from newer strains, regular seed in soil under high intensity lights indoors. It's like knowing what an athlete eats, not different races for vegetarians. More like the 7 habits of cannabis cup winners

 

[Easy7]

When I was new to serious reading, totally of overwhelmed by all the details of indoor growing. Thought it would be simple. All the different tech, varieties, effects, smells, restrictions, and environmental standards. Overgrow was my University.

Dumbest thing was to get a hydro set up. Had $1k and there were no tents. Closets were the norm for small guys and learning about light leaks was mind boggling to solve with 8 foot windows.

Nearly every grow was ghetto in some way. Rez chillers were a dream. Co2 was for fancy growers. Fem seed was brand new. Didn't know about amps until growing. Trying to see what could work in a 1 bedroom down town apartment.

Thought all tokers could be trusted.

To do it all over it would be fem seed guerrilla outdoors. With a small led veg and a slightly larger flowering tent. All soil.

Hydro is a luxury to me. I have ran the numbers and hydro costs more than what I can return for personal usage.

Then again if we ever win the lotto and get federal permits who knows?

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Hydro is a luxury to me. I have ran the numbers and hydro costs more than what I can return for personal usage.

Cost is not an argument, cost varies significantly with the style of the grower. Hydro/Organic doesn't matter.

Write down how much you earn a year. Find a real numbers figure for how many hours it takes you to make that yearly income. Divide your income by the hours listed.

Now add up all the hours you spend trekking to and from your guerilla grow and multiply it by the hourly rate you came up with. Add in all the expenses for soil, amendments, tools and whatnot. Still think it's less expensive than running a light a little airpump and fans and some a/c in the house? If so, you're one lucky guy.

A tub, airpump and stones, plus a few baskets and a handful of pebbles. In a warm/hot area, ebb and flow isn't much more expensive. Certainly less than the cost of your first quality soil, not counting amendments.

Feeding the system water and nutrients is ridiculously cheap, unless you buy into 90% of what's recommended. Under $60 for two 1Kwatt runs of 3 months (when you own your own r/o unit). Less if you start with a good powdered and only add what's missing.

I'm sure there are people who throw amazing amounts of money away, buying bottles of this and that. I've seen the pictures. I've also seen the pictures of people throwing away thousands of dollars on high priced amendments and soil base. Does any of it make their cannabis better?

It all comes down to the grower, knowing the cannabis plant.

 

[DocTim420]

If you want speed and volume, then hydro will always win over soil/soil-less (period).

It takes me about 6 weeks to obtain what my buddy achieves vegging 4 weeks...(we run the same genetics). When it comes to flowering--hard to say what the "hydro" advantage is, his DE Gavitas are in 10 foot high rooms with a mini-split...my mixed spectrum lights hang from a 7 1/2 foot ceiling cooled by window ACs. I am organic (mostly) and he is 100% synthetic.

I do know this...when the dispensary menu lists both our flowers--mine are are listed toward the top of the menu as "premium" or "platinum" while his are a bit further down and priced a bit lower.

My nute/fert cost per run is tiny...his cost per run isn't. Time...he wins hands down. He spends a few hours every other day--I spend more than a few hours every day in my perpetual operation. He has multiple flower rooms...I have 1 veg and 1 flower room. I achieve a harvest every week--he has 1 or 2 per month.

 

[Easy7]

Not saying I would not love to have the luxury of hydro. The set up is much much more costly. Outdoor guerrilla can be under $1k. Indoor soil about $4k. Indoor hydro above $6k. These are small set ups. One of the costly expenses isn't even lights. It is axillary items like dehumid, ac, rez chiller. I have done basic hydro and it needed topped up 2x daily. Want more automation? Gonna cost $ to set that up.

Outdoor is the best deal there is. Not paying for any more power than a well pump. Organics is simply easier for my sanity. Can't top dress with chems. Can't plant in super soil and let the rain and sun do their thing.

It really comes down to what you want to feel most comfortable with. It's easy to make a disastrous mistake with chems. Really hard to do that with organic raw ferts.

Plus hydro I have looked into it and a 30 gallon rez is around $700 for bottled nutrients for 2 grows. $700 in organic guano's and fancy organic box/bag nutrients outdoor yields way more than two grows under a 1k or 630 lec.

But it's a preference thing. Some people simply don't like organic outdoor.

Think of it this way. Is it cheaper to grow veggies indoor or outside? Most of my veggies fertilizer is free from our goats. Add a little kelp and 0-7-0 guano just for good measure.

Plus if the power goes out that hardly puts an outdoor grow under the troubles. There is no emergency generator on my house. Running a gas powered generator is just another item to add to the list of what can totally fail.

Sure hydro might rule in Detroit but there aren't a lot of inner city barns. Could actually dry several ton's in our barns. 2 barns and 4 electric powered water wells. Generators and tractors coming out of our ears. Your not going to find a warehouse that isn't a multimillion dollar deal that can grow as much or be as large as our field. It's not gonna be cheap to set up and operate that large of an indoor either.

 

[DocTim420]

And then there is this funny characteristic called "quality"...something that outdoor grows have a hard time maintaining (hence the lower price compared to indoor).

Indoor soil grow for $4k? Could be..and maybe not. Convert an existing room, purchase containers, grow medium, nutes/ferts, Craiglist the ballast and lights, buy new lamps @ 1000bulbs.com, window AC at Lowes, 20 gallon trash can for water rez...

I think a hobbyist can dip their toe in the water for an indoor soil/soil-less grow for less than $1k and hit the ground running.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Plus hydro I have looked into it and a 30 gallon rez is around $700 for bottled nutrients for 2 grows.

Holy overhyped cannabis nutes, Batman. Talk about growing to the tune of marketing programs. You've been duped about hydro.

A 45 gallon 1K hydro res costs around $30 in nutes for a run. You don't need $350 worth of bottled crap to produce terpene rich, high end cannabis. I can produce *Very* good cannabis with just Maxibloom and epsom, which is what... $8 for a full 1K watt run? People still call it awesome organic, till I tell them otherwise.

It's all about knowing the plant. Superior quality cannabis requires precision, it doesn't allow for minor error. $350 is a huge error. heh

 

[Pwyll]

I don't see that sativa, indices and hybrid categories make any sense at all when it's all hybrid. Best daytime, best nighttime, best pain relief would make more sense imho

 

[Amish Guerilla]

Simple just add water.no ph meter no problems.

~Amish G~

 

[Nico Farmer]

Hi everybody!

After 15 years of hydro, I grow now in full orga super soil.
Better taste, less impact on nature.

Soon, I will post pictures of my girls:
Pure Ak, Euphoria, and Old School.

Bless all

 

[Easy7]

Maybe outdoor has a bad rep because of chemical ferts. People going el cheapo. Same way schwagg has a bad rep. Believe it or not there is a market for south American bales of dirt weed.

For head stash is one thing. For people you don't know is another. Maybe I will research these dirt cheap chem grows. Still kinda seems like banging a drunk passed out cousin though.

 

[DocTim420]

And there is a market for fox piss too...doesn't mean I want some. LOL.

It's cool man. Glad you are thinking.

 

[Nico Farmer]

Maybe outdoor has a bad rep because of chemical ferts. People going el cheapo. Same way schwagg has a bad rep. Believe it or not there is a market for south American bales of dirt weed.

Hi

I leave in France, and here, outdoor don t have bad rep.
Ganja growing is forbidden so there is no legal commercial business.

Majority of growers I know use organics outdoor.
But its not the same indoor...

Bless

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

In the end, it's not the tool, it's the way it's used.

Plenty of people use the same tools and get sub-standard results. It takes awareness and searching for information from the most accomplished in your field. Look for people getting the best results and pick their brains. Being able to admit you may not know everything is great and a skill everyone should pick up. It's pretty heavy though, take it slow and don't strain yourself.

 

[Cannavore]

short answer for a long thread. i personally find it easier/easiest.

 

[Easy7]

I don't know why people like brick weed. Not even worth it in desperation. Rather smoke fan leafs off of my own stuff.

After smoking the weed grown domestically from University there is no reason to even bat an eye at schwagg. That was a long time ago. It's reared it's ugly head from time to time. Someone usually pulls out a doobie sooner or later and it's not anything but dirt.

 

[Jhhnn]

And then there is this funny characteristic called "quality"...something that outdoor grows have a hard time maintaining (hence the lower price compared to indoor).

Indoor soil grow for $4k? Could be..and maybe not. Convert an existing room, purchase containers, grow medium, nutes/ferts, Craiglist the ballast and lights, buy new lamps @ 1000bulbs.com, window AC at Lowes, 20 gallon trash can for water rez...

I think a hobbyist can dip their toe in the water for an indoor soil/soil-less grow for less than $1k and hit the ground running.

I think outdoor can be every bit as good depending on the strain, the care, the place & the year. It won't be every time or every year. Greenhouse growers get the best of both worlds.

I can do organic soil in my pissant grow because I have a yard & a garden, a place to work on it & a way to recycle it after I'm done with it indoors. People who live in apartments & townhouses have it different. People who grow for money would see it all differently, as well.

Outdoors will ultimately be where it's at. Cannabis will become a commodity like tobacco & all that it means. Growers need to scale up, to go big if they're to be part of the future of the biz. They won't be able to compete if they can't.