WHO HAS THE OLDEST CANNABIS SEEDS?

[GP73LPC]

Got a vial of seeds collected sometime in the 30's, was in this old school seed collection (all kinds of other plants) and labelled Cannibis Sativa... wanna try and pop some but figure not a big chance.

got a picture of that, i would love to see it if you care to share...

 

[Pig Pen]

1. Patrick Flanagan's Neurophone (U.S. Pat. No. 3,393,279). Flanagan also conducted experiments involving phi geometries and their effects on muscle strength. He played Pink Noise using various geometric shapes as resonators; a model of the Great Pyramid, models of the King's Chamber; Dodecahedrons and the like, to modify the Pink Noise. He then had experts in applied kinesiology test the muscles strength of people listening to the same sounds resonated through said shapes. The results were unanimous, the Pyramid shapes based on the Golden Ratio made people very strong. Cubes made people very weak.

That is very interesting.

When I was a young man I took an engineering job in Cairo that lasted 6 months. During this time I spent time inside the Great Pyramid measuring the actual resonant frequencies in the major chambers and passages. We had to get permission to enter these areas with our equipment, some of which could not be entered by humans due to physical limitations. I can't remember the specific frequencies anymore, but they were indeed related to the golden ratio and to each other. These buildings were used as an initiation to the gnostic rites still embodied in several bodies still in existence today.

Each chamber was used in successive levels within the gnostic rites, the final culminating in the symbolic death and rebirth of the individual candidate in the king's chamber.

If anyone is seriously interested in the great pyramids and what we know about them a good book to start with is "The Great Pyramid Decoded" by Peter Lemesuier. ISBN number is 1-85230-088-4.

There is no mention of any physical manifestation of matter stasis or any of that, but there is solid data as far as position, dimensions, orientation, interior construction, materials used used etc. Many diagrams are included.

There is one thing for sure, the symbolism of the great pyramid's construction operates on more than one level. I do not claim that these levels are manifested in on the physical plane, but there is considerable evidence that the ancient Egyptians believed that they did. Modern science has yet to prove or disprove this in either case.

 

[Ganja Maker]

Off topic or not, I am loving this pyramid talk. So interesting.

 

[gloryoskie]

How could a thread morph so quickly, so badly?
Pyramids are lovely though, I like the ones in Mexico.

My plants are cut and dried, jarred today. The pine smell drifted to a sweeter funky juicyfruit smell. Will smoke some maybe in a week or two.

Second round in flower, almost three weeks now.

 

[Bobby Stainless]

Soma...

 

[rafe]

I have some beans from Denmark that are from 96. They are healthy looking and I am putting 4 of them in water for a bath over night. They are Erdpurt crosses. I really hope they pop because the last time I grew Erdpurt I got relief from pain associated with a head injury.

 

[Tom Hill]

Aside from missing the may 2012 proxigean spring tide, now is a good time, about 2-3 days before the next spring tide. Bust out with your ga3, and sandpaper and all that jazz. Unless you are down with these times, you are failing to give the germination of seed the old college try, and this is certainly relevant to this thread imo.

 

[Pig Pen]

You know,
Now that Tom Hill and Sam the Skunkman are both here I do have some on-topic questions.

My father has been keeping a couple varieties alive. These are old genetics, one from Guerrero Mexico and a few from our grandfather who grew for Eli Lilly. He's monocropped during seed runs to maintain relative genetic integrity, but we wonder how much the strains have wandered due to the four generations of seed production needed to span the decades safely. He is an engineer by training, so has not "worked" the strain, but has tried to preserve it the best he could under the circumstances. We are in a rural area not known for cannabis production are relatively sure no stray pollen has entered the gene pool.

 

[Tom Hill]

The amount of "wander" is a function of A) how many cycles of reproduction took place, divided by B) how many parents were used during each cycle of reproduction.

 

[Pig Pen]

Exactly four cycles each strain with about 100 seeds grown and allowed to reproduce freely.
We did not keep any records of how many males and females.

Breeders, we are clearly not.



We only sought to keep them going and have later come to wonder how well of a job we did.

 

[Tom Hill]

^^^^ I think that is pretty damn good.

 

[Pig Pen]

Thanks Tom.

Both my father and I respect your opinion greatly.

BTW we love your Pine Tar Kush, bro!

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

You need 2000 plants freely pollinating to avoid gene loss with dioecious Cannabis, but depending on the variety its actual loss is 1%-10+% per year. If you have larger numbers with some selection for maintenance I suspect zero change.
Grow it and look to see if the plants are all the same or if they have segregated because of hybridization.

-SamS

You know,
Now that Tom Hill and Sam the Skunkman are both here I do have some on-topic questions.

My father has been keeping a couple varieties alive. These are old genetics, one from Guerrero Mexico and a few from our grandfather who grew for Eli Lilly. He's monocropped during seed runs to maintain relative genetic integrity, but we wonder how much the strains have wandered due to the four generations of seed production needed to span the decades safely. He is an engineer by training, so has not "worked" the strain, but has tried to preserve it the best he could under the circumstances. We are in a rural area not known for cannabis production are relatively sure no stray pollen has entered the gene pool.

 

[MummyCat]

Sam, what are the oldest seeds you've ever grown into a plant and how old were they?

 

[Pig Pen]

Thanks Sam,
That info really allows us to get as much info as we need, high and low variance percentages and an relative visual indicator.

As to your original question regarding oldest seeds, these are the 4th generation of seeds that were laid down in 1934. The seeds runs were done about once each twelve years (starting in 1978) with 100 seeds each time (way too few). The original seed lot had fairly good germination rate until 1984 which had only about 20% and zero in 1999. We up for a seed run in 2013 or so, but the 4th generation has yet to show any segregation.

Not due to any skill or forethought, mind you.



Thanks again for the very solid info

 

[Tom Hill]

To arrive at the maths you need to first assume such things as a frequency of rare alleles, association between genes within individuals, method of reproduction, and etc. This brings us to a percentage of probability in capturing during regeneration. So (don't ask me to do the math lol) it may look something like - using 100 plants in a non-controled open pollination, assuming a rare allele frequency of 0.05, we have a 98% probability of success. Being that so many of the above inputs are unknown and brings us to probability, the answer is always the same - the more the better. -T

 

[StRa]

WHO HAS THE OLDEST CANNABIS SEEDS?

maybe the herbaria here and there collected some seeds as well..........Unfortunally where I've been I've only found males!

Largest herbaria
The Swedish Museum of Natural History (S).
Main article: List of herbaria

Many universities, museums, and botanical gardens maintain herbaria. Herbaria have also proven very useful as sources of plant DNA for use in taxonomy and molecular systematics. The largest herbaria in the world, in approximate order of decreasing size, are:

Muséum National d'Histoire Naturelle (P) (Paris, France)
New York Botanical Garden (NY) (Bronx, New York, USA)
Komarov Botanical Institute (LE) (St. Petersburg, Russia)
Royal Botanic Gardens (K) (Kew, England, UK)
Conservatoire et Jardin botaniques de la Ville de Genève (G) (Geneva, Switzerland)
Missouri Botanical Garden (MO) (St. Louis, Missouri, USA)
British Museum of Natural History (BM) (London, England, UK)
Harvard University (HUH) (Cambridge, Massachusetts, USA)
Swedish Museum of Natural History (S) (Stockholm, Sweden)
United States National Herbarium (Smithsonian Institution) (US) (Washington, DC, USA)
Nationaal Herbarium Nederland (L) (Leiden, the Netherlands)
Université Montpellier (MPU) (Montpellier, France)
Université Claude Bernard (LY) (Villeurbane Cedex, France)
Herbarium Universitatis Florentinae (FI) (Florence, Italy)
National Botanic Garden of Belgium (BR) (Meise, Belgium)
University of Helsinki (H) (Helsinki, Finland)
Botanischer Garten und Botanisches Museum Berlin-Dahlem, Zentraleinrichtung der Freien Universität Berlin (B) (Berlin, Germany)
The Field Museum (F) (Chicago, Illinois, USA)
University of Copenhagen (C) (Copenhagen, Denmark)
Chinese National Herbarium, (Chinese Academy of Sciences) (PE) (Beijing, People's Republic of China)
University and Jepson Herbaria (UC/JEPS) (Berkeley, California, USA)
Herbarium Bogoriense (BO) (Bogor, West Java, Indonesia)
Royal Botanic Garden, Edinburgh (E) (Edinburgh, Scotland, UK)

 

[Pig Pen]

Hi Tom,
Thanks again for weighing in on my question which was related to the O.P. We could handle the math, but were only interested in a relative indicator rather than an hard number so I don't think we will go much further with any calculations. These genetics will never be sold so there's no real need to document things that deeply. We are just farmers with an eye towards and a certain amount of pride in what our family did before prohibition.

Thanks again for your time and answers.

 

[mapinguari]

Pig Pen, this is one of the neatest cannabis stories I've ever heard. I hope there is something really cool in your Grandpa's line.

 

[Dawn Patrol]

Pig Pen, this is one of the neatest cannabis stories I've ever heard. I hope there is something really cool in your Grandpa's line.

Agreed! Pig Pen ++++K for keeping that genetic pool alive!!