where did we go wrong ,the cannabis genetic pool

[tazz11]

sounds like I have found a 3 card Monte selection rate between these 3 systems of selection ..

not any one of them work the way they do as a group ...

stage 1. cold temps help select the given plant with in a strain base.

stage 2. the monster cloning gives me a way to isolate the given trait I want .from the first stage .

stage 3. cut away clones let me harvest from the life cycle of a given selected strain base with out braking the genetic loop of that strain ..

say i cut the cut away clones off the root stock . then . I have isolated the traits within them at the given stage of that strain .

with this 3 stage system . I am harvesting the plant as I would a cutting of a clone ,yet the root system is never thrown away and the cut away clones keep that root system alive , one can not live with out the other root or clones both are needed ,

but that's what was odd about the Abducted strain the roots cast new seedlings with out having surface growth ...how it dose it ,I have no idea ...

if you say DNA is all the same then why do strain have any value at all to breeding ?

the logic of that statement is based on the fact some believe the sativa is the origin of cannabis ....if all cannabis came from one source then traits of strain are useless ...but we in fact change those traits in our own selection .. I just found another way to select ....

its as much fun as trying to isolate the cause of F1 vigor ...

do you want to know why this was important enough for me to come here and post it ..

as I said from the start ,my goal is to isolate the hit and miss factor .

and I think I have ,by using these 3 stages of selection ..

how dose it work . we as humans often judge the positive and negative of data . thus we fail to see past them when multi answers fit one given question .. this is at the heart of the hit and miss factor .. we get a strain trait that makes great weed . its a hit . we find a strain that has no buzz at all or very little . we compare it to the hit and say its a miss . but in reality it is just a strain trait of strong CBD . we were only looking for the selection of hit traits . yet when confronted with a trait that has no high or is limited, we see it as a miss and not for what it really is ...

 

[Lester Beans]

sounds like I have found a 3 card Monte selection rate between these 3 systems of selection ..

not any one of them work the way they do as a group ...

stage 1. cold temps help select the given plant with in a strain base.

stage 2. the monster cloning gives me a way to isolate the given trait I want .from the first stage .

stage 3. cut away clones let me harvest from the life cycle of a given selected strain base with out braking the genetic loop of that strain ..

say i cut the cut away clones off the root stock . then . I have isolated the traits within them at the given stage of that strain .

with this 3 stage system . I am harvesting the plant as I would a cutting of a clone ,yet the root system is never thrown away and the cut away clones keep that root system alive , one can not live with out the other root or clones both are needed ,

but that's what was odd about the Abducted strain the roots cast new seedlings with out having surface growth ...how it dose it ,I have no idea ...

if you say DNA is all the same then why do strain have any value at all to breeding ?

the logic of that statement is based on the fact some believe the sativa is the origin of cannabis ....if all cannabis came from one source then traits of strain are useless ...but we in fact change those traits in our own selection .. I just found another way to select ....

its as much fun as trying to isolate the cause of F1 vigor ...

Can you clarify the statement, " the roots cast new seedlings..."

 

[tazz11]

...allow this guy a pass to grow in the freeze and believe whatever he needs to believe. forsake rationality

" reality is a shared dream to justify fears of the unknown "

 

[tazz11]

Can you clarify the statement, " the roots cast new seedlings..."

yes at one point the Abducted mother plant was cut off ,with no clones or veg ,the plant was then pulled out of the soil and a week latter anew seedling came up from the roots that had broken off in the soil .. I have never seen this before from any strain and a week latter the seedling just died for no see able reason ...

I do not know how it did it . your guess is as good as mine ...

 

[tazz11]

I can do my research with out posting it here if it is confusing to some .I just thought it would be interesting to some of you ...

 

[tazz11]

How did you come to this conclusion?

Observation is good but where's your repeatable experiment that shows this is absolute truth?

None of what you are saying makes much logical sense to me.

what is the first define part of the cannabis seedling ?
root ,stem ,the two rounded baby leafs that cover the first nude .

the first part is the stem , you then have a sign of growth

then what ?

a stem a stalk ...?

a stalk can not feed the roots and keep them alive ..
now you see why my focus is on the first nude ..

the cannabis seedling is just root and stem till it is defined by the first nude ,only then is it a strain or traits start to develop

if you want logical answers , then the first two rounded baby leafs of seedling are in fact protecting the first nude
set of leafs ..as they are the birth of the true plant seedling and the first true trait of a given strain base ...

no other part of the plant or strain can make those clams ..

proof: ok .. when you have just the first nude on your seedling do you have gender traits ...?

can you take a sample from the roots and tell what a plants gender is ?

we know with some serenity that seeds have gender define structure ...so dose the seedling have gender before the first nude . logically yes !
agree ?

OK then ask your self this . what dose the seedling need to mate .. ?

it needs at least one nude to cast gender ...the baby rounded leafs do not branch out as a nude , only the first nude dose ..so true gender starts with the first nude set ...it can produce male or female gender ,

now do you see why I am researching the first nude set ,...?

so in reality the cut away clones are the first signs of gender or strain traits after seed germination ...

see my point the rounded leafs in the seed are protecting the first nude ...I believe its doing that for a reason ....

so now I ask you a question . when the root comes out and you see that little tap root coming out of the seed .. where did it come from .. correct the developing first nude growing hidden with in those yet unopened rounded leafs ...

Cannabis as we know it starts from those cut away clones known as the first nude ....prove me wrong ,I will walk away and never post again ...!

when I stated the cut away clones are different ,I mean it !

your whole plant developed from that first nude ...fact!

now do you see the relationship between the first nude and cold temps .. ?

 

[tazz11]

" in side the cannabis seed is a infant first nude wrapped in a set of rounded leafs or what most call baby leafs as cold temps oscillate and water trigger germination the inner first nude grows its tap root and brakes free of its nesting place to develop into the new born seedling "

 

[OneStonedPony]

Sounds like you acclimated those plants to cold conditions. All plants have the ability to adapt somewhat to hotter or colder than normal conditions. That's the reason we see different pheno types in a large population. Cold cloning, no I'll pass. I've had better luck with mild temps. That's what works for me.

 

[Lester Beans]

yes at one point the Abducted mother plant was cut off ,with no clones or veg ,the plant was then pulled out of the soil and a week latter anew seedling came up from the roots that had broken off in the soil .. I have never seen this before from any strain and a week latter the seedling just died for no see able reason ...

I do not know how it did it . your guess is as good as mine ...

In order to have a seedling, you need to have a seed. A root cannot produce a seedling.

 

[VerdantGreen]

if a plant re-sprouted from below the ground it was probably because a node was buried under soil level when it was cloned or re-planted

if you say DNA is all the same then why do strain have any value at all to breeding ?

the logic of that statement is based on the fact some believe the sativa is the origin of cannabis ....if all cannabis came from one source then traits of strain are useless ...but we in fact change those traits in our own selection .. I just found another way to select ....

tazz, we are not saying DNA is the same in all cannabis plants of all strains!
we are saying that the DNA of each plant is the same throughout that plant. so a clone from any part of the plant will be genetically idenentical - whether from the top or middle or bottom of the plant.
we are also saying that all cannabis seeds will be genetically different from each other, even within the same strain or IBL - they may be similar to each other, nearly the same... but not exactly the same. obviously seeds from different strains will be genetically much more different to each other than seeds from the same strain

VG

 

[Fuel]

It was hard to follow but funny. I will not argue because i'm hardly opposed to your view of things if i consider all tests i've allready done in the spectrum of your example (with seeds and offspring as the main goal).

But, i will invite you to enrich your experience (in your conditions) with the electroculture. I think that this tool fit well to your conditions, and maybe will extend your overview of the equation to somes factors that actually you can't see. I've used it myself with tropical bloods growed in Alps, thats absolutly not a pure theorical invitation.

Have fun

 

[sourpuss]

Personally i clone the tops... get exactly the same plant as it came from. Not even mature either. I make seed in the larf below if im allowed haha... hard to agree with you findings... what im thinking is you reveged and compared a reveg to regular clones. Gotta think about root mass a plant already has. In terms of your side by side with clones dying, personally i think it was something else. Not trying to rain on your parade.

Thought this was more about the modern hydrid weakness in effect....

 

[tazz11]

no "my research is the basic under standing that the cannabis seed is nothing more then a un born infant first nude and is in nature triggered by cold temps ...... "

if these cold temps are the trigger that starts the first nude to grow . can they be triggered or condition the first nude after germination and will it effect the plant or given strain base .

not everyone will want to grow at cold temp ,,...its cold ...lol

 

[tazz11]

In order to have a seedling, you need to have a seed. A root cannot produce a seedling.

so in reality what dose you statement mean ?

as I see it . that un born infant first nude resting in its nesting place has the abilities to root and grow the full cannabis plant from bottom to top ...and is triggered by cold temps ...

in reality the un born infant first nude creates the tap roots

when you put your seeds in cold to help germination you controlling the cold temps to create a seasonal effect on the seed...

I say once the king always the king .. if you do these things to find the best condition for germination then the first nude logically grows best in those temps ...and as humans have a inner clock so do plants ...

the plants slow their growth in cold temps and their up take is slow and defined by conditioning in cold temps I find the reaction to warm temp more productive then normal conditions ...

see I made stronger strains & plants with the conditioning to cold temps . but it went beyond that the monster clones prove that ...

back to the research ..good luck to all

stay safe stay free

 

[tazz11]

Personally i clone the tops... get exactly the same plant as it came from. Not even mature either. I make seed in the larf below if im allowed haha... hard to agree with you findings... what im thinking is you reveged and compared a reveg to regular clones. Gotta think about root mass a plant already has. In terms of your side by side with clones dying, personally i think it was something else. Not trying to rain on your parade.

Thought this was more about the modern hydrid weakness in effect....

"Thought this was more about the modern hybrid weakness in effect.."

modern hybrid weakness

OK lets look at from my point of view ...

if the genetic pool has a weakness then it would come from many different grows or breeders ..

then what could they have in common ?

growing conditions or they are all doing something the same way ...
a faulty system if you will ...not all but a breeder can effect far more of the genetic mass then a isolated grower and the few clones or plants he or she shares with friends ...

not to say breeders are the main cause in this case ...it could in fact be only one source in are active modern world ..

so we logically have to look at each source and the mass and how it is effected by the up take of new strains and breeder stock ...

so ask your self this .. the grower finds a great strain , the breeder creates one .. what is different about those two strains that they could have in common ?

for every create strain we hear of there are thousand thrown away ...

7 generations for breeding

if you find a strain that can grow strong in cold temps for 7 generations you want to make seed ...lol


it is easy to pass the buck and say it is not us are self's that is the cause . but it is even more logical that it is , and we don't see it or know it is us that is causing the effects seen in the mass , its like the common cold .. so many have it there is no way to stop it ...

one cure may work in one case and not the next ...

this is what I think is the cause of modern hybrid weakness . but I am glad you said modern .. for this opens the door way to our grow rooms and breeding systems & conditions ...and no other cause and effect is as great as the environments we grow in ..

as we learn from one end of this earth to the other our skills and conditions are effected but the modern data we come in contact with . one grower find a new strain thousands have it in a year ..

one breed tries something new . next thing you know everyone is doing it ... the illusion of safety with in our own grows is just that a illusion .

and this is my opinion of what the genetic pool is today ,just a illusion ...qualities and purities fade and vanish at will of the modern world ,it is up to us the growers and breeders to protect and select the best breeding stock we can find and to keep them in house till we are sure they will improve the genetic pool and not just give it a common cold ...

 

[Jericho Mile]

" reality is a shared dream to justify fears of the unknown "

You are not in the realm of the unknown however. You are just growing plants in adverse conditions and making assumptions.

that simple

 

[gorilla ganja]

tazz11 it's hard to follow your logic on any of this. But it must work because you obviously have some super potent pot in your possession.

Peace GG

 

[tazz11]

You are not in the realm of the unknown however. You are just growing plants in adverse conditions and making assumptions.

that simple

I have no need 4 assumptions ,that's where the web comes in ...lol

nothing is never that simple ....lol

 

[_tessarecting]

Two words: How Much

 

[FireIn.TheSky]

I think the way people are breeding now a days will prove to be very damaging.

Ppl are just piling the same family of strain on top of it self generation after generation.

All of og smashing is going to homogenize everything. Diversity is key. Mono cultures leave us susceptible to all sorts of bad shit.