When did your recycled soil start not doing so well?
- Thread starter Lapides
- Start date
this is my fifth year using the same soil. doing three runs a year, perpetual. i may have depleted it cause i'm cheap and lazy when it comes to re-amending.
when i cut out a plant, i try to gauge it's dry weight against the amendments added.
i don't have a hanna or truncheon or whatever those meters are called. no need. compost and castings regulate PH well enough.
with that in mind, less is more. i mean, adding amendments can swing PH, so adding a little amount has no real magnitude.
teas, top-dress, and worms....you must provide that BALANCED base tho'.
rock dust, leonardite, gypsum, ewc, compost, aeration of some sort....
this weed will grow almost anywhere ffs, perhaps rols is overdoing it???
nah.
i just try to mimic nature.
when i cut out a plant, i try to gauge it's dry weight against the amendments added.
i don't have a hanna or truncheon or whatever those meters are called. no need. compost and castings regulate PH well enough.
with that in mind, less is more. i mean, adding amendments can swing PH, so adding a little amount has no real magnitude.
teas, top-dress, and worms....you must provide that BALANCED base tho'.
rock dust, leonardite, gypsum, ewc, compost, aeration of some sort....
this weed will grow almost anywhere ffs, perhaps rols is overdoing it???
nah.
i just try to mimic nature.
I have only reused a couple times and then make new. Once I move, I will start reusing more like the rest of you seem to. I started with the organics for beginers thread, changed/added a few things. When I reused, I added everything back to it as if it was new. Btw, I used the promix/emc/perlite with guano teas(and bio tea inbetween)
I didn't think you guys reused it as long as you do, would be nice to not have to bring bales in all the time...
I didn't think you guys reused it as long as you do, would be nice to not have to bring bales in all the time...
Kygiacomo!!!
AppAlachiAn OutLaW
i will be using my living soil for the first time next year. this is what i will using for it:
Worm Power Ewc @ 2 cups
Neem Cake/Karanja 50/50 @ 1/2 Cup Per Cubic Foot
Kelp Meal @ 1/2 Cup Per Cubic Foot
Crab Meal/Lobster compost @ 1/2 Cup Per Cubic Foot
Fish Meal @ 1/2 Cup Per Cubic Foot
Gypsum @ 1/2 Cup Per Cubic Foot
Worm Power Ewc @ 2 cups
Neem Cake/Karanja 50/50 @ 1/2 Cup Per Cubic Foot
Kelp Meal @ 1/2 Cup Per Cubic Foot
Crab Meal/Lobster compost @ 1/2 Cup Per Cubic Foot
Fish Meal @ 1/2 Cup Per Cubic Foot
Gypsum @ 1/2 Cup Per Cubic Foot
Will any body freak?
In taking my harvested plants root balls apart to see if I can learn anything?
Guess what, bugs all through the root zone.
Some kind of soil mite I think. Maybe springtails
.My philosophy about bugs is pretty simple.
I opine most soil bugs are beneficial in breaking down decaying matter
and are happy doing what they do.
The only time I ever had bugs in my soil want to move out of the soil, and up into the plant is when I made the soil inhospitable to them.
I use a lot of old root matter recycled in my mix and have learned that MOST soil life is friendly and helping in the organic way.
I mean if there not on the plants. LOL
Ratz
In taking my harvested plants root balls apart to see if I can learn anything?
Guess what, bugs all through the root zone.
Some kind of soil mite I think. Maybe springtails
.My philosophy about bugs is pretty simple.
I opine most soil bugs are beneficial in breaking down decaying matter
and are happy doing what they do.
The only time I ever had bugs in my soil want to move out of the soil, and up into the plant is when I made the soil inhospitable to them.
I use a lot of old root matter recycled in my mix and have learned that MOST soil life is friendly and helping in the organic way.
I mean if there not on the plants. LOL
Ratz
5 years only getting better.
If it were to crash I would take a soil test and get things back in check.
If you not to heavy handed in one thing you should never have a problem.
Do farmers change their soil?
Timbuktu
If it were to crash I would take a soil test and get things back in check.
If you not to heavy handed in one thing you should never have a problem.
Do farmers change their soil?
Timbuktu
I have several reasons for adding the lime and SRP. I use the old soil that has not been re-amended yet for sprouting seeds, and seedlings. I then re-amend the soil and let it work until sex has shown and then transplant into the "new" soil. The seedlings start showing calcium/magnesium deficiencies unless I top dress or water with lime. That problem completely goes away once transplanted into the "new" soil with lime and SRP added.
It has also been said that the peat moss as it decomposes gets more and more acidic, the lime will fix that. All that being said, I have been looking into switching to oyster flour, gypsum etc.
For years I ran fully recycled and re-amended soil with teas, I now run half old soil mixed with half coco then I re-amend that.
My main issue I ran into with straight recycled soil is that after a few years of running the same soil over and over again it became very dense and thick. Some runs would be excellent and others would be a mess. I assume the nutrient balance would get out of whack, with constant reamending perhaps not all of one nutrient would be depleted which would cause problems after reamending. My soil also became very gritty from always re-adding aeration material. I have since started doing my half new half old split with a bottled nutrient plus additional amendments as needed, things are running smooth, its a lot easier for me to control on a plant by plant basis with bottled base nutes and my new soil mix then it ever was with teas and such.
I think large beds with old soil works best outdoors where it can be leached by rain, turned and reamended and left to compost. Indoors with a fast garden turn around and only being watered it doesnt provide the same type of atmosphere.
In all honesty I don't notice all that much a difference from the days I used to use good quality bagged soil and I was doing the recycled thing full bore with a diverse mix of amendments yada yada yada....
My main issue I ran into with straight recycled soil is that after a few years of running the same soil over and over again it became very dense and thick. Some runs would be excellent and others would be a mess. I assume the nutrient balance would get out of whack, with constant reamending perhaps not all of one nutrient would be depleted which would cause problems after reamending. My soil also became very gritty from always re-adding aeration material. I have since started doing my half new half old split with a bottled nutrient plus additional amendments as needed, things are running smooth, its a lot easier for me to control on a plant by plant basis with bottled base nutes and my new soil mix then it ever was with teas and such.
I think large beds with old soil works best outdoors where it can be leached by rain, turned and reamended and left to compost. Indoors with a fast garden turn around and only being watered it doesnt provide the same type of atmosphere.
In all honesty I don't notice all that much a difference from the days I used to use good quality bagged soil and I was doing the recycled thing full bore with a diverse mix of amendments yada yada yada....
no but you can't compare an indoor perpetual garden to growing on a farm.
First off outdoor gardens get leached by the rain, tilled, re-amended, numerous bug species til the soil and compost materials, earth worms shit fertilizer and aerate the soil, mites and small arthropods compost on a micro scale, birds shit all over the place the wind blows in leaves in the fall, grasses grow and die thru the summer months. A field is used for the season, then tilled and left to compost and freeze and thaw then tilled again and re-amended for the next year.
This is much different then an indoor garden that runs 24-7 that sees minimal watering compared to rainfall. We can only mimic nature in a small indoor garden lets not minimize the grand scale in which nature works there is millions of creatures working that field, from the bugs to the bacteria, it just doesn't happen by accident.
The only thing I would say on this topic that hasn't already been said, well I don't think. Is that I feel although there is no expiration date on the soil. It is important to let it rest from time to time. Possibly even growing a rotation crop on the old soil. Once in a while at least. I have just found this to be beneficial personally. And just like in field grown crops, it can break the cycle of disease that can possibly build up in time, even in healthy soil, when the same crop is grown in the exact same place time and again.
RoostaPhish- you know it. That is what I have to work on. Rotating out the soil and letting it go Farrow for a time with a diverse cover crop.
Hidinginthehaze- yes indoor soil is different in most case and even in mine I don't have a leachable soil, meaning its 18 " deep and that's it. Also I don't have anything larger then a worm in my soil and it doesn't go through a freeze cycle. Oh and o don't have bird shittong on the soil but other then that I have everything else you mentioned
I take great care to collect diverse soil sample and add them into my composts/soil mixes ensuring constant tilling by things big and small. I try and maintain a diverse species of plants that live an die throughout the cycle.
Yes while not the same as out side soil very similar if you wan tto be.
Everyone keeps mentioning adding areation
I never have. In the 5 or so years I never added just areation. I feel that my rock dust turn to clay and I have clay in there so I feel that I can keep my soil flocculated with keepingy Ca Hi.
Timbuktu
I do March to beat of my own drum in tune with the rhythm that mother nature has laid down.
Hidinginthehaze- yes indoor soil is different in most case and even in mine I don't have a leachable soil, meaning its 18 " deep and that's it. Also I don't have anything larger then a worm in my soil and it doesn't go through a freeze cycle. Oh and o don't have bird shittong on the soil but other then that I have everything else you mentioned
I take great care to collect diverse soil sample and add them into my composts/soil mixes ensuring constant tilling by things big and small. I try and maintain a diverse species of plants that live an die throughout the cycle.
Yes while not the same as out side soil very similar if you wan tto be.
Everyone keeps mentioning adding areation
I never have. In the 5 or so years I never added just areation. I feel that my rock dust turn to clay and I have clay in there so I feel that I can keep my soil flocculated with keepingy Ca Hi.
Timbuktu
I do March to beat of my own drum in tune with the rhythm that mother nature has laid down.
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The only difference I really see is not having to mix up a batch every 9-10 weeks.
The claims of more developed terpene profiles, could be true after a couple runs of the same strain. I haven't been running long enough to see that yet. And I bet this is only seen with growing the same plant, or at least very closely related varieties.
Do farmers change their soil?
Yes, they do, as you already answered. They allow fields to fallow or plant nitrogen rich crops to replenish. Commercial farmers use additives if not allowed to fallow. Rotating crops is the best way to ensure health (and prosperity) to farmer's crop.
Same principles can be applied. Like others chiming, additives (organic) best way to keep soil recycling for years.
Yes, they do, as you already answered. They allow fields to fallow or plant nitrogen rich crops to replenish. Commercial farmers use additives if not allowed to fallow. Rotating crops is the best way to ensure health (and prosperity) to farmer's crop.
Same principles can be applied. Like others chiming, additives (organic) best way to keep soil recycling for years.
What I ment by change is dig up and throw out and start over like most grows.
Of course the are trying to change their soil for the better.
Timbuktu
Of course the are trying to change their soil for the better.
Timbuktu
Complete no till is a chemical agriculture idea.
Sometimes you need a deep till.
Sometimes you need a deep till.
A favorite of mine that was recommended to me some time ago was fava beans. but there are many old coots like myself, well not old really, know that "common" weeds can tell you what your soil needs and help to adjust accordingly.
I always thought organics was us getting as close as we could to real mother nature, and natural as the world around us. Only thing I see doing a "deep till" is humans using machines. What in the untouched live organic world does that ?
Your words sound backwards in my mind
I dont want to pick on you too much but chemical farming is the exact opposite of "no till", chem farmers will till to loosen the soil but rely on the chemical fertilizers to provide nearly 100% of the required nutrients. The soil in a chemical farm could be sterile, this is half of the problem, sterile fields that no plant, bug or bacteria will grow in naturally. They become baron wastelands that are agriculturally useless unless more chemicals can be dumped. And because they are such baron wastelands it leaves perfect opportunity for the wrong things to thrive like plant diseases, fungi and mold as well as leave plant susceptible to pests because they have no natural ability to defend themselves which brings in more need for chemical pesticides, fungicides etc...
"No till" is a concept derived from nature, the best example is a forest. You don't see men running around fertilizing an old growth forest do you? It's permaculture, it may be new to cannabis but there is nothing new about the idea.
Well that's another facet of the great "mine is more organic then yours" debate.
Permaculture vs minimal till organics. Permaculture works best with non annual crops. We are dealing with a 3 month cycle which we run constantly. Doing a "till" or mix every year or two will help keep the bac to fungi ratios in check and help mix things up a little.
No till is very much a chem agriculture idea when used in the context of broad acre farms. Minimal till is what is recommended for annual crops. Do a little more research into this and you will see I'm not far off.
I do agree with you on most of your point though.
Timbuktu
Permaculture vs minimal till organics. Permaculture works best with non annual crops. We are dealing with a 3 month cycle which we run constantly. Doing a "till" or mix every year or two will help keep the bac to fungi ratios in check and help mix things up a little.
No till is very much a chem agriculture idea when used in the context of broad acre farms. Minimal till is what is recommended for annual crops. Do a little more research into this and you will see I'm not far off.
I do agree with you on most of your point though.
Timbuktu
