What's A Good Sealant That Won't Off Gas???

[whadeezlrg]

if by prodex you are referring to R-max insulated panels, they are awesome and have great insulating properties for their nominal thickness. I just did the interior of my shipping container w/ 2" r-max panels on all of the walls, and on the ceiling I did a radiant/vapor barrier on top of r-13 fiberglass insulation and finished it off with 1" r-max panels. I've been thinking of doing a rubberized undercoating on the floors and about 6" up the walls to basically be a permanent 'pond liner'

 

[Loose Cannon]

if by prodex you are referring to R-max insulated panels, they are awesome and have great insulating properties for their nominal thickness. I just did the interior of my shipping container w/ 2" r-max panels on all of the walls, and on the ceiling I did a radiant/vapor barrier on top of r-13 fiberglass insulation and finished it off with 1" r-max panels. I've been thinking of doing a rubberized undercoating on the floors and about 6" up the walls to basically be a permanent 'pond liner'

Actually Prodex is a very thin roll, less than 1/4 inch and foil on both sides.
Rated R16 and seems most popular are the 48"x 175' for 205 per roll when on sale.
Radiant, vapor, and noise should be gone after the R30 fiber sandwiched by 2 @ R16.
Need this level, at least on ceiling, to avoid detection from above.
Will probably use styro along with this on the door area instead of fiberglass.

Should be good!

 

[the gnome]

glad to see you went with the prodex LC
it has so many positives over other insulation products,
you just reminded me of one i forgot,
it stops thermal imaging DOA

 

[Loose Cannon]

I'm keeping option for exhaust by running a couple 12" undergound to building 15' away so should have zero thermal showing out of this place which has been storage for years and not subject to inspection.
Nice to have owner on board.

 

[queequeg152]

glad to see you went with the prodex LC
it has so many positives over other insulation products,
you just reminded me of one i forgot,
it stops thermal imaging DOA

a radiant barrier, placed inside a building, will not magically defeat a thermal imaging device.

radiant barriers, as they are sold and advertised, and installed are largely bullshit/snake oil products. their actual usefulness is far and away oversold.

as far as non gassing sealants, for use air sealing... Any good fibered mastic will work very well in this respect. if the sealant is to be applied outside, be sure to get a paintable uv resistant product.

 

[the gnome]

I'm not talking radiant barrier,
you are? but yeah, prodex has that too.


I'm talking prodex's superior insulative qualities-->
loose cannon plans on using 2 layers @ R16 per=R32
couple that with an air gap and you get more R-value
add in the R30 fiberglass insulation and your looking at a respectable R-60 in a sealed environment
THEN
using that inside another structure and I'd feel very confident FLIR wouldn't be able to detect it

 

[whadeezlrg]

the air gap is factored into the r-16 rating is it not? I've read plenty that suggests that type of insulation typically has a very low R rating, like around an r-1, and the manufacturers are inflating the actual insulating properties which are heavily dependent on application. air gaps are necessary for any radiant barrier to work properly. fwiw the majority of the research I did was not on "prodex" I was looking into a similar product from home depot(not sure if this is the same product that I was originally researching but it's similar, this stuff really isn't rated very high by hvac engineers)http://www.homedepot.com/p/Reach-Ba...e-Polyethylene-Insulation-Roll-3054/203536788

for the guy saying radiant barriers do nothing against flir- have you ever seen the type of stuff that flir is capable of seeing, they typically see hot exhaust exiting from a place you wouldn't typically have warm air exiting a home, and that's the giveaway. a piece of drywall in a window opening is enough to keep IR from penetrating, I don't see how something that is designed to reflect radiant heat would work any less(assuming it's properly installed with an air gap) Ive heard that the will look for a single window or two of a home to be "blacked out" or not showing a heat signature as a give away. this is just my understanding, doesn't mean it's 100% correct.

 

[the gnome]

the air gap is factored into the r-16 rating is it not?

r16 is stand alone, with air gap it will increase R-value as with most other insulation's
go to the prodex site and check it out .
http://www.insulation4less.com/Insulation4lessProduct-1-Prodex-Total-48-Inch.aspx

now that it was brought up....about radiant barriers if your pushing thousands of watts of heat in a room, I doubt any kind of 1/4" rad. barrier or anything for that matter will NOT keep the heat from being absorbed and transferred to the other side making it possibly visable to flir
of course it's a matter of how much heat your try to hide and what/how much your using to conseal it.

All I can say prodex is the shit from actual hands on use.
I used it with with with air gaps and isocyaunurate foam panels and EPS clad with osb wall panels
and there is close to Zero heat transfer from inside to outside.
I'm running average R40-50.
actual cooling cost monthly for 6000w is $127 for 12hr bloom and $168 18hr veg

 

[queequeg152]

what you are saying that this 1/4 material achieves r 16?

do you know how insane that claim is? no offense intended but a polyiso board, at best gets like r 5 PER INCH. how in the hell will a 1/4" bubble wrap material beat that by a factor of 10?

radiant barriers do not have any r value what so ever IN THEIR OWN RIGHT. when added to an assembly they may or may not boost the r value of said assembly.

in the very best cases, IE new foil, not dusty, very hot conditions, very high temperature differential, they will boost the r value of an assembly by single digit values at best.

in new construction, it does indeed make sense in some cases, in some climates, to add a radiant barrier. however in almost all retrofit jobs, this is not the case owing to the cost of labor.

think of FLIR as like 10,000 IR thermometers pointed at a given area. A radiant barrier will not prevent your roof assembly from heating what so ever.
the majority of this heat gain will be from convected and conducted heat from the warmer interior.
infact no amount of insulation, short of insane values >100, will prevent your building surface from heating above ambient conditions on the exterior.

if you are counting on folks to believe that this building is a simple storage shed(and hence not heated what so ever), it its not going to convince anyone examining the building with a FLIR device. i would suggest you treat this building as though it is heated, and perhaps occupied, hence you can justify the construction activity and heat signature.

 

[queequeg152]

sorry. i cannot edit my own posts.

Id also like to note that in the case of steel buildings or cars, where the steel skins are exposed to direct sunlight, Radiant barriers can be particularly effective.

i suggest you consult the AHSRAE documents regarding radiant barrier assemblies. you could perhaps achieve a boost of like r3 with the addition of the barrier material w/ a 1" gap.

that 1 " gap however, is one inch where you cannot blow in insulation or lay batts, or fasten the blankets etc.

 

[the gnome]

actually it's 13/64ths of an inch,
I suggest you follow the link I provided above to get more accurate data

btw...
Again,
you seem to be the only one talking radiant barrier here???

 

[queequeg152]

actually it's 13/64ths of an inch,
I suggest you follow the link I provided above to get more accurate data

i did, and they are citing the r16 value based on a horizontal test, and 2.64" of air gap. still its bullshit.

to hit r16, if its even possible, im guessing they had to hit a temperature differential in excess of 50 degrees c.

*Parameters of test: 24-inch on center 2" x 6" wood assembly. Roof application. Test method ASTM 1116. Airspace of 2.64 inch on each side of product. Heat-flow direction down. Interior side of product exposed.

i strongly caution anyone considering buying such a product. your money is far better spent on conventional insulation in almost all situations.

in the OP's situation i would suggest a blow in blanket, being that they are very easy to install, and with with minimal labor. you pretty much just rent a scissor lift, and a cellulose/fiberglass blowing machine. 2 guys ( one loading, and watching, and another blowing) could insulate a steel structure the size of his in a day if they knew what they were doing.

check out building science.com for the more nitty gritty details.

 

[the gnome]

r16, if its even possible, im guessing they had to hit a temperature differential in excess of 50 degrees c.
do you know what your even talking about LOL
if you do please explains your temp diferential in comparison to prodex
whlie your at it how about pushing that onto prodex stats dept and work out the "differential" with them
after you hash your figures out with prodex,
let us know the results...

 

[queequeg152]

r16, if its even possible, im guessing they had to hit a temperature differential in excess of 50 degrees c.
do you know what your even talking about LOL
if you do please explains your temp diferential in comparison to prodex
whlie your at it how about pushing that onto prodex stats dept and work out the "differential" with them
after you hash your figures out with prodex,
let us know the results...

im not 100% sure what you are asserting regarding my differential statement. are you claiming i used the word incorrectly?

1
a : of, relating to, or constituting a difference : distinguishing
b : making a distinction between individuals or classes
c : based on or resulting from a differential
d : functioning or proceeding differently or at a different rate

2
: being, relating to, or involving a differential or differentiation

3
a : relating to quantitative differences http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/differential

its funny that you would take the word of a company as gospel... perhaps a bit of objectivity on your part is in order.

You are claiming this product has an R value of 64 PER INCH. thats higher than aerogel for gods sake.

seriously just think about it.

if ANY MATERIAL could yield an r value of r16 in a quarter inch thickness, cost 2 dollars a square, and be as easily manufactured as this prodex material is. it would literally revolutionize the way people build homes, commercial spaces, cars, saunas, airplanes...
Do you really think the folks at prodex figured this all out? This revolutionary product? they beat the shit out of Owens corning Johns Mansville, Certainteed, etc etc etc?

or perhaps its just bullshit, take a few minutes and think that over please.

 

[whadeezlrg]

my understanding of that type of insulation is relatively the same as queequeg, there is a fair amount of info on that type of insulation...most of what I've read suggests that it's most effective at reflecting radiant heat which is different than actual insulating. the data that I looked over was what helped me decide that r-max panels were in fact the best route for my situation(needing max insulation properties w/out sacrificing too much space)

 

[Loose Cannon]

Intended to get more done today/ tonight but too much other stuff came up.
Foam nearly done and Prodex order arriving shortly.
Don't know if I'll document any more the way it's going here or may just take pics as we progress and post full report in vert section after up n running.